It is incomplete but a good visualization of the players.
Didn't hardly touch on CDS's though. And tried to pretend they were only for the best investments.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
I'm actually taking an appraisal course now. Not an easy thing to get into. About 3 to 4k for the courses over about an eight month period, a test after each course, you fail you can take it over, 2500 hours as an apprentice completed in no less than 2 years, then a state exam. If I complete all that then you have to attend continuing ed courses every two years and renew your liscense. So it is fairly regulated here but that doesn't mean there aren't bad apples that inflated appraisals.
Posts: 492 | From: new york | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by jgrecoconstr: I'm actually taking an appraisal course now. Not an easy thing to get into. About 3 to 4k for the courses over about an eight month period, a test after each course, you fail you can take it over, 2500 hours as an apprentice completed in no less than 2 years, then a state exam. If I complete all that then you have to attend continuing ed courses every two years and renew your liscense. So it is fairly regulated here but that doesn't mean there aren't bad apples that inflated appraisals.
it's usually the "target pricing" that's the problem....
you'll be given a contract price to justify, and you'll have to figure out if you can or can't....
most people don't know that they have to go to the courthouse to find the actual sale prices, they just see all the asking..
the realtors can see the closing prices on some listing services...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I think the builders need to start building more affordable houses. Just like Detroit needs to get off the super sized SUV, builders need to stop building McMansions only. It is ashame, but this country seems to only care about short term profits.
Posts: 134 | From: PA | Registered: Mar 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Browndog: I think the builders need to start building more affordable houses. Just like Detroit needs to get off the super sized SUV, builders need to stop building McMansions only. It is ashame, but this country seems to only care about short term profits.
You've hit on a theme I've talked on for years.
And another thing, I've noticed that in most newly constructed and newly remodeled homes, they spend as much for fancy faucets in the bathroom and kitchen as it would cost to properly insulate the attic.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
we've been kicking the idea hard here for years.
let's say the average household income in America is 50,000$
lets say the average family that can actually AFFORD a home and not be renters is 60,000$.
33% of after tax income at 60K is (ballpark) 15,000$
that means the AVERAGE cost of a home in America should allow for a month ly paymetn including PI, MI, Homeowners insurance and state and local RE taxes should be 1,250.00 per month...
that's when the economy will re-adjust.
in other words? we are screwed.
the average price of a home went to 225K$
it's now down to about 180K$...
1250$ per month with all the add-ons equates to about 125K$ at 5%.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Home builders build the types of houses that are in demand. In the past few years, McMansions were in demand and therefore that's a large part of what builders were building. Now that the ecomony is coming back to reality, demand for McMansions will probably drop and builders will respond by building smaller houses.
Who's to blame for the housing bubble?
I'd start with Alan Greenspan. His policy of pumping a bunch of cheap money into the economy after the dot-com crash and 911 was a major cause of the bubble. Add to that, Bill Clinton, George Bush, Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, the Congressional Black Caucus who prodded banks to make loans to individuals that weren't credit worthy. Next, banks and mortgage companies made loans to these people that weren't credit worthy. Banks and mortgage companies also invented ridiculous products such as teaser rate loans, option arms, etc that set the borrower up for failure. Moreover, the banks allowed people to LIE on their applications with 'stated income' loans. As Glass said, appraisers contributed by inflating appraisals. Finally, the individuals that borrowed the money without having the ability to pay back the loans certainly bear a LOT of responsibility.
There's enough blame to go around!
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
Fannie and Freddie were created to make the home building market more profitable for everybody.
prior to their creation? homeownership was not available to the general population. homebuilding was not a big business.
i invite anyone who thinks they are the reason to go to say, Korea, where they have a booming economy and no Fannie type organization. Everybody there is a renter unless they are the uberclass...
they live in apt buildings. trying to make the congressioanl balck caucus into the bad guys is simply race baiting and you know it PM.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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"trying to make the congressioanl balck caucus into the bad guys is simply race baiting and you know it PM."
Actually, glass, I don't think he does. Like most of the hard cored radical right, he lives in Limbaugh Land and "dittos" in his excuse for a brain as well as in near cut and past quotes from The Dear Leader.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
yes he does. it's a game to say and do racist things and then claim you don't know what people are talking about .. a sick game, but a game nonetheless... furthermore, to blame them is to attempt to reverse the way we all know Congress has worked forever. Lobbyists go to congress and lobyy for favorable laws. not vice-versa.
another thing few people have pointed out is that JUST prior to this sudden increase in lending? the bankruptcy laws were changed in favor of creditors... they lobbied that too.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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you have no clue what the mission of Fannie and Freddie are.
i am not going to spend a half hour here educating you on the historic mission of Fannie.
the bottom line is that Fannie ALSO loaned more to poorER people of all races and creeds. in fact? unless you are an inheritor at a young age? your first mortgage was probably FHA, or VA.
it is YOU who are participating and inciting class war, and if-when it happens? you will be hiding in your hole like people of your nature always do.
the reason we are stuck in this hole is because Lehman and others tried to COMPETE with Fannie... an they didn't have any clue what they were doing, or didn't care, or worse; intentionally crashed the system for profit.
i still don't hear people asking who is on the "winning side" of all the CDS'es... nobody but me has asked that question yet.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:the bottom line is that Fannie ALSO loaned more to poorER people of all races and creeds.
Agreed, this is not a race issue beyond the fact that the leftists targeted certain racial groups (especially african americans) for these subprime loans. All that accomplished was to further damage the african american community, just as welfare and other socialist programs have done for decades.
quote:i still don't hear people asking who is on the "winning side" of all the CDS'es... nobody but me has asked that question yet.
Certainly, the people that packaged and sold those CDOs are on the winning side. The trick with CDOs was just to treat them like a hot potato and pass them to some ignorant investors before they blew up.
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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posted
CDOs are on the winning side. The trick with CDOs was just to treat them like a hot potato and pass them to some ignorant investors before they blew up
i din'say CDO, that's primae facia.
i said CDS. it's a big secret who's collecting on them...
this is why i bother with you PM, right here: the leftists targeted certain racial groups (especially african americans)
you have almost no sense of history. i (currently) live in MS. in one sense? i am currently living within history today, but there are things i really love about this place too, so i'll stop there, simply because i am at work trying to make a better future for all of US not just myself, and my family. getting on the glass half full bandwagon is not in my best interest. you should get on it too, you'll be happier.
Nevada’s foreclosure rate tops nation once again
By Steve Green
Published Thu, Feb 12, 2009 (2:10 a.m.)
Updated Thu, Feb 12, 2009 (6:16 p.m.)
Nevada is 82% white, and 8% black.. you are a bigot. this is the proof.
you may not realise it, and i take you at face value that you don't want to be.
BTW? i personally make absolutely no claim to bneing 100% UNbiggoted, but try to be as good as i can
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Nevada is 82% white, and 8% black.. you are a bigot. this is the proof.
That's ridiculous. Nevada's racial makeup has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the congressional black caucus is partially responsible for the mess we're in.
quote:BTW? i personally make absolutely no claim to bneing 100% UNbiggoted, but try to be as good as i can
Keep working on it!
Posts: 1577 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:Nevada is 82% white, and 8% black.. you are a bigot. this is the proof.
That's ridiculous. Nevada's racial makeup has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the congressional black caucus is partially responsible for the mess we're in.
LOL... if you don't get it, you just aren't trying.
if the Congressional Black Caucus didn't work for their constituents? you'd call them lazy and worthless anyway..
you want your cake and to eat too.
the Black Caucus doesn't represent Nevada at all...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
In Canada we only have a handful of banks with fairly strict, government guided, policies. Therefore one companies' policy applies to thousands of bank branches and it's easy to police and control.
Not everyone can afford to buy and maintain their own home. A lot of people are terrible with managing their money. A lender that would tease these people with an unrealistic dream makes me sick. And a government that relaxes the rules to "help" the same people, is not in touch with the reality of day to day life of the people living paycheck to paycheck.
Real estate appraisers are guided by the selling prices of the homes in the area and provide copies in their report to the banks as proof.
Real estate agents are from outer space and should be watched very carefully. But they to must price the homes according to the surroundings. Some will even price mid to low for a quick sale and move on.
In Canada we hire Realtors all the time when buying a house. No contracts or fees and they split the commission, usually 5%, with the agent you buy from.
A friend of mine moved to California last August and went in to talk to the bank to see what he needed if he wanted a mortgage. The lender was a friend of a friend and he told him he was waiting to be arrested, along with twenty other lenders, for the loans they had made over the last five years. He said it happened so slowly and gradually that everyone was lending everything just to get the business. And NOBODY told him to stop or be careful or anything. The lender leaned over and told my buddy "now were so scared no one is even talking about it. It's TABOO."
You can have structure and guide lines and still not oppress people. If you want something, work for it. Wide open free market only works in a balanced society. Too many buyers or sellers and someone's gonna get hurt.
My opinion you have to spreed the blame very thin over everyone involved. If you can't do basic math to see how much money will be left at the end of the month, or if people are lying to you then your done. It's every man for him self people, figure it out. The Gov. deregulated and took a hands almost off approch to banking. That Failed Bad as we can see. But I think the lenders are the most to blame for the way they have conducted them selves and presented their products for sale to you, and to the world. You can't do it, but the whole financial system should be left to fail. Then slowly build it back up with structure, accountability and integrity all overseen by the Gov. Hopefully a competent Gov.
In my travels I have noticed a Bank employee in parts of Europe holds higher status than the Mayor. Even the tellers are very professional and proud their position. The US needs to take a hard look at the people running your banks and even take back some of the million dollar bonuses handed out over the last five years. You could call it a "Wake Up Greedy F**ken A**hole Tax." I wish I got a bonus for screwing up. Any bonus should be for performance only. Get back to the basics please. Credit is for those who can afford it. Everyone else has to work first.
What ever you do to fix it, do it quick cause it's killing me. I work in the Auto Industry...........for now.
Posts: 105 | From: Toronto | Registered: Nov 2005
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He does not want his cake and to eat it too. He wants your cake, so that none of "those people" can have any chance to eat it, ever.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
"What ever you do to fix it, do it quick cause it's killing me. I work in the Auto Industry...........for now."
Siting around expecting and wanting to let things go and let the banks fail and "the whole financial system should be left to fail. Then slowly build it back up with structure, accountability and integrity all overseen by the Gov." isn't going to be the speedy solution you are requesting.....not byu a long shot. You'll be well into old age retirement before that comes to pass, unless serious and deep financial reconciliations and cash are invested into the effort.
Trying to treat the foot by holding it in the fire won't stop the blistering of its skin or cure the deep burns. Let's put out the fire or move away from it first, then we can "slowly build it back up with structure, accountability and integrity all overseen by the Gov.".
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
"Problem is many have worked and for most of their lives."
It depends on what you want and how much you make. People should work and save money and then look for things that make life better. If people work most of your life and still can't afford credit then they are the ones who can't afford the upkeep on a house. Not everyone is entitled to a house.
Everyone is entitled to a chance to make the life they want. They are not entitled anything but a the opportunity.
Some days I want the moon. My guys keep telling me I can't have it.
Posts: 105 | From: Toronto | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by bdgee: "What ever you do to fix it, do it quick cause it's killing me. I work in the Auto Industry...........for now."
Siting around expecting and wanting to let things go and let the banks fail and "the whole financial system should be left to fail. Then slowly build it back up with structure, accountability and integrity all overseen by the Gov." isn't going to be the speedy solution you are requesting.....not byu a long shot. You'll be well into old age retirement before that comes to pass, unless serious and deep financial reconciliations and cash are invested into the effort.
Trying to treat the foot by holding it in the fire won't stop the blistering of its skin or cure the deep burns. Let's put out the fire or move away from it first, then we can "slowly build it back up with structure, accountability and integrity all overseen by the Gov.".
Posts: 105 | From: Toronto | Registered: Nov 2005
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Bdgee I agree with you. Just too bad it got this bad. I hope some reform is on the way also.
Posts: 105 | From: Toronto | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
Though a lot of those caught up in the burst of the housing bubble were foolish chance taking speculators with every intent to turn a 40% profit by flipping a house or two, no matter whose money they would be taking , most of those swallowed up in the violent sea and and then deserted on dry land somewhere else when the tidal wave subsided, were just poor innocent hard working folks that got inundated in the flow while trying to house and feed a family.
Insisting on punishing the guilty will do more toward finally destroying the innocent but foolish. Destroy those and the American dream is dead (Canada's too....it's part of America).
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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"It depends on what you want and how much you make. People should work and save money and then look for things that make life better. If people work most of your life and still can't afford credit then they are the ones who can't afford the upkeep on a house. Not everyone is entitled to a house.
Everyone is entitled to a chance to make the life they want. They are not entitled anything but a the opportunity.
Some days I want the moon. My guys keep"
_________________________________________________
I may have agreed some with your statement 20,30,40 years ago. But the reality for a lot of Americans is that the jobs and money are not there(increasing day by day) because a few at the top have taken that money for themselves and for other reasons.
Obviously you are sitting in a more confortable position to judge other people and to make it sound so simple.
The times have changed a lot in the last half century and i am not sure it's been for the good of the American family.
Posts: 3875 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Though a lot of those caught up in the burst of the housing bubble were foolish chance taking speculators with every intent to turn a 40% profit by flipping a house or two, no matter whose money they would be taking , most of those swallowed up in the violent sea and and then deserted on dry land somewhere else when the tidal wave subsided, were just poor innocent hard working folks that got inundated in the flow while trying to house and feed a family.
Insisting on punishing the guilty will do more toward finally destroying the innocent but foolish. Destroy those and the American dream is dead (Canada's too....it's part of America).
Agreed. But if good guide lines were in place and followed a lot less people would be at risk.
Posts: 105 | From: Toronto | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
"guide lines were in place and followed a lot less people would be at risk."
I do agree, whole heartedly!
And I point a great big main finger of blame at the the mantra of the republican party over more then three decades to belittle and destroy the importance and ability of government to oversee and throttle the private sector until the really big financial entities were allowed to operate more along the lines of financial piracy "on" than functioning as investment "in" the nations security and structure, particularly after the rise of Gingrich and Delay.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Quote Robot:
"It depends on what you want and how much you make. People should work and save money and then look for things that make life better. If people work most of your life and still can't afford credit then they are the ones who can't afford the upkeep on a house. Not everyone is entitled to a house.
Everyone is entitled to a chance to make the life they want. They are not entitled anything but a the opportunity.
Some days I want the moon. My guys keep"
_________________________________________________
I may have agreed some with your statement 20,30,40 years ago. But the reality for a lot of Americans is that the jobs and money are not there(increasing day by day) because a few at the top have taken that money for themselves and for other reasons.
Obviously you are sitting in a more confortable position to judge other people and to make it sound so simple.
The times have changed a lot in the last half century and i am not sure it's been for the good of the American family.
I hope it didn't come across like I was judging. I just want to point out that it is only human to go after what we want. We all need guidence in our lives and that from time to time may come from outsiders telling us NO, you can't have that. It's not simple. If anything things have become so complicated that the average person may have given up thinking for them selves. It would be nice to get back to the basics. Give people back some pride and the respect they deserve.
Posts: 105 | From: Toronto | Registered: Nov 2005
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posted
"I hope it didn't come across like I was judging."
Nothing to worry about with those online right now. You are adding I formation as well as offering an opinion. That's value, so don't worry. That's how we learn.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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