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Author Topic: THE REPUBLICAN PARTY MUST CHANGE OR DIE
raybond
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The Republican party must acknowledge the women's movement and accept science. Or it will go the way of the Federalists and the Whigs.

One can hope that the post-election debate on the future of Republicanism will point the way to a viable fact-based prudential party. But it will be difficult to achieve, since the conservative movement has stuck to George W. Bush like a limpet on all his discredited policies: Iraq, banning abortion, the block on stem cell research, income tax cuts for the wealthy, attaching Social Security to the Stock Market (!), repatriating 12 million illegal immigrants instead of offering them a road to citizenship (“amnesty”). All of these have been losers.

A major—perhaps insoluble—problem conservatives face is that the aggressive “social conservatism” of the Republican base and its activists does not appeal to moderates and independent voters.

The model for the revival of the Republican party should be the presidency of Dwight Eisenhower.

It is no good conservatives trying to revive Ronald Reagan, for whom I used to write speeches. Historians may rate Reagan as a near-great president. But our problems now are different from the ones he addressed. And “supply-side economics” is now widely recognized as nonsense. Let me try to advise them on how to rediscover a Republican party that is both viable and electable.

First, the Republican party must distance itself from evangelicalism as the policy preferences of evangelicals have only minority support. In 2000, Bush received 70 percent of the white evangelical vote, this becoming the indispensable base of the Bush Republican party.

America separates church and state by constitutional right: people can worship as they please in church, synagogue or mosque, which often have differing policy views. But public policy must be justified by fact and result, not by one or another religious doctrine.

Second, science today, empirically based, has great authority because of its manifold achievements, from the interior of the molecule and the human cell to the age of the universe (13.7 billion years). Therefore science also has cultural authority.

No administration has been so comprehensively hostile to science as the Bush administration. It has cut funding for research and development, manipulated data on global warming, and exaggerated uncertainties about climate change so that millions of Americans think global warming and its causes are matters of opinion.

Bush blocked federal funding for embryonic stem cell research and advocated teaching intelligent design along with evolution. Teaching intelligent design? Where? Biology class? Not since the 1920s has evolution been a subject of political controversy. Astonishing. Now it is controversial again because we are in what historians describe as the third evangelical awakening.

Third, both Bushism and movement conservatism forgot the founder of modern conservatism, Edmund Burke, who understood abstract (republican) theory as the basis for revolution in France, but also understood historical force of social change, as in the famous passage from Thoughts on French Affairs (1791), celebrated by Matthew Arnold:

If a great change is to be made in human affairs, the minds of men will be fitted to it; the general opinions and feelings will grow that way...and those who persist in opposing it will appear rather to resist the decrees of Providence itself than the mere designs of men.

That certainly could apply to the profoundest revolution of all time, the long revolution for women’s equality in the modern Western world. In America we can date the beginning of the women’s revolution to Fanny Wright’s Course of Popular Lectures (1820), which advocated women’s suffrage, free public education, more liberal divorce rules, and birth control. There in 1820 began the long journey to women’s equality. In Planned Parenthood vs. Casey the Court sustained Roe and observed that the availability of abortion allowed women to “participate equally in the economic and social life of the nation.”

Fourth, Burke and Leo Strauss are the indispensable conservative political philosophers and should guide the leaders of any form of modern conservatism. But the immediate paradigm for the revival of the Republican party should be the successful presidency of Dwight Eisenhower. I doubt Eisenhower studied much political philosophy at West Point, but he was a fact-based prudent realist, as any successful general must be: matching means with ends, making risk calculations, etc.

In 1953 Eisenhower ended the Korean war with a nuclear threat against Beijing, built the nuclear-powered navy and brought forward the unstoppable Polaris missile, initiated the U-2 spy-plane flights, began to build the interstate highway system, and also balanced the budget three times. He certainly would not have trapped an American army in Mesopotamia. He was practical, solid, and surely a near-great president.

In a recent poll, 98 percent of historians rated George W. Bush the worst president in American history. Bushism was a disaster, and the conservative movement that backed him in everything is now dead.

Movement conservatism, RIP. The common sense Republican party will rise again. It must. Or it will go the way of the Federalists and the Whigs.

Jeffrey Hart is professor emeritus of English at Dartmouth College. He wrote for the National Review for more than three decades, where he was senior editor. He wrote speeches for Ronald Reagan, when governor of California, and for Richard Nixon.

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Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.

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CashCowMoo
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First, Bush was not a conservative. He was his own element, and even isolated true conservatives from him.


Also, this is more of a determining time for the Democrats in my opinion. All this change mantra and Obama discipleship. Lets see what happens.

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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Machiavelli
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Die preferably... the GOP i mean...

--------------------
Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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CashCowMoo
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There is going to be a lot of pork in Obamanomics.

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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buckstalker
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I myself don't believe in or TRUST either party...

I hope they both die a quick and painful death...

--------------------
***********************

It's all in the timing...

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Highwaychild
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Talking Heads - Burning Down the House
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=st1lH8zcIuQ
I was going to put it on the listening thread, but, it seemed like it fit this thread better... one more week.

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Highwaychild
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I bet all them G.O.P'ers are like...
"G.W. jacked it up so bad it got 'those people' in there...lol
Goin' all Sarah Palin on him now that it's(about) over.

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raybond
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. "President Washington, President Lincoln, President Wilson, President Roosevelt have all authorized electronic surveillance on a far broader scale."--Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez, testifying before Congress
(Quick! Somebody phone Al Gonzalez and tell him there were no phones or electricity during the Washington and Lincoln administrations

This was Bushes favorite attorney

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Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.

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raybond
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Bush was right wing to the point of almost a fascist.

I don't know what a person really means buy a conservative.

--------------------
Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.

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Highwaychild
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Well his grandfather worked with Hitler... http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100474,00.html
What did you expect?

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Propertymanager
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Raybond,

You are absolutely correct that the GOP must change or they will certainly die. However, you are 100% wrong in the way they must change! If the GOP wants to survive, they MUST get back to conservative, common sense values. It is clear (as you said) that you don't have a clue what "conservative means". Let me make it simple for you and list the issues from a conservative standpoint.

Conservatives are:

Pro-gun
Against abortion
Against gay marriage
Pro-Christianity
Against handouts to the lazy
Against the scam of global warming
For drilling for oil in the United States
Pro-Israel
Pro-Democracy
Against Socialism
Pro-Capitalism
Pro-creationism
Pro-business
For the right to PURSUE happiness - against a guarantee of happiness
For equal rights for all - against quotas for minorities

If you have any other questions, please ask. I AM a true conservative.

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jordanreed
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sounds like a comedy routine...

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jordan

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Machiavelli
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Sounds like a delusion of a madman's making lol and that is not "Democracy"... he's not a true conservative... he's a fascist lol

--------------------
Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by Propertymanager:
Raybond,

You are absolutely correct that the GOP must change or they will certainly die. However, you are 100% wrong in the way they must change! If the GOP wants to survive, they MUST get back to conservative, common sense values. It is clear (as you said) that you don't have a clue what "conservative means". Let me make it simple for you and list the issues from a conservative standpoint.

Conservatives are:

Pro-gun
Against abortion
Against gay marriage
Pro-Christianity
Against handouts to the lazy
Against the scam of global warming
For drilling for oil in the United States
Pro-Israel
Pro-Democracy
Against Socialism
Pro-Capitalism
Pro-creationism
Pro-business
For the right to PURSUE happiness - against a guarantee of happiness
For equal rights for all - against quotas for minorities

If you have any other questions, please ask. I AM a true conservative.

There is nothing wrong with taking sides with the list you made. The opposite?

anti-gun
anti-business
anti-israel
redifining marriage
stripping the rights away from the unborn
anti-christian (because christianity is a threat to gay marriage and abortion)


I mean the list goes on forever.

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Propertymanager
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quote:
There is nothing wrong with taking sides with the list you made. The opposite?

anti-gun
anti-business
anti-israel
redifining marriage
stripping the rights away from the unborn
anti-christian (because christianity is a threat to gay marriage and abortion)


I mean the list goes on forever.

EXACTLY! That is the wish-list of the wacko left!

Mike

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buckstalker
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quote:
Originally posted by Propertymanager:
Raybond,

You are absolutely correct that the GOP must change or they will certainly die. However, you are 100% wrong in the way they must change! If the GOP wants to survive, they MUST get back to conservative, common sense values. It is clear (as you said) that you don't have a clue what "conservative means". Let me make it simple for you and list the issues from a conservative standpoint.

Conservatives are:

Pro-gun
Against abortion
Against gay marriage
Pro-Christianity
Against handouts to the lazy
Against the scam of global warming
For drilling for oil in the United States
Pro-Israel
Pro-Democracy
Against Socialism
Pro-Capitalism
Pro-creationism
Pro-business
For the right to PURSUE happiness - against a guarantee of happiness
For equal rights for all - against quotas for minorities

If you have any other questions, please ask. I AM a true conservative.

The GOP's stance on the issues that you have posted here PM IS the reason that they will most certainly DIE...

BTW...you are NOT a true conservative...you ARE a true idiot.

--------------------
***********************

It's all in the timing...

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CashCowMoo
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retired what is wrong with siding with Israel against Hamas and Hezbollah? 2nd amendment? CAPITALISM?

--------------------
It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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buckstalker
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Nothing wrong with fighting terrorism or the 2nd amendment...I own a LARGE safe full of guns...

Capitalism only works for "the elite"

--------------------
***********************

It's all in the timing...

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bdgee
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Neither capitalism not socialism nor fascism nor monarchy nor whatever ideal as a form of government works completely or uniformly anywhere, anytime, anyway.

Demanding that any philosophical form of government be strictly adhered to guarantees that it will fail.

The system of government the United States has operated under since its inception is no one of those named above. Within the Constitution there are requirements that defy each and every one. One, monarchy, is specifically denied, in whole or in part.

There is no requirement in the Constitution that demands that the Nation practice pure capitalism and there is none that demands that socialism isn't acceptable in part.

Contrary to simple minded bumper-sticker mentality and jargon, neither capitalism nor socialism is the logical opposite or bare denial of the other. Indeed, in any practical or pragmatic sense, each accepts certain aspects of the other as essential for its own success and existence. For examples, in the most avid of Communistic societies, a man OWNS certain sorts of property, like his clothes and often his family and home and those things associated with that home, while in proudly capitalistic societies, certain things are purely under the control of the government, socialistically, like the mail (check out the U.S. Constitution) and the roads and the Court house and such.

In order to provide the best chance of benefiting all of its people, a government must be willing and able to evolve to work withing the political environment of the day, whatever it chooses to call itself.

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CashCowMoo
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Here is my problem.


I started a business, and through 12-15 hour days, stress, and all the things that go into it I want to reap the rewards of it.

My dream will be penalized the better I do through a higher tax rate. No wonder businesses outsource so much.

--------------------
It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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bdgee
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
Here is my problem.


I started a business, and through 12-15 hour days, stress, and all the things that go into it I want to reap the rewards of it.

My dream will be penalized the better I do through a higher tax rate. No wonder businesses outsource so much.

What you have just told us is that you have absolutely no understanding of tax law and tax brackets.
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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Propertymanager:
Raybond,

You are absolutely correct that the GOP must change or they will certainly die. However, you are 100% wrong in the way they must change! If the GOP wants to survive, they MUST get back to conservative, common sense values. It is clear (as you said) that you don't have a clue what "conservative means". Let me make it simple for you and list the issues from a conservative standpoint.

Conservatives are:

Pro-gun
Against abortion
Against gay marriage
Pro-Christianity
Against handouts to the lazy
Against the scam of global warming
For drilling for oil in the United States
Pro-Israel
Pro-Democracy
Against Socialism
Pro-Capitalism
Pro-creationism
Pro-business
For the right to PURSUE happiness - against a guarantee of happiness
For equal rights for all - against quotas for minorities

If you have any other questions, please ask. I AM a true conservative.

they cannot get elected on that platform.

Pat Robertson never even came close running on that.

the real world has real problems that need real solutions.

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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bdgee
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If the republicans insist on staying with those extreme positions, I'll prophesy that within a decade or so it will be replaced by a new party with a more reasonable and less judgmental platform, with the good sense to honor the wisdom of the Founders and maintain strict independence from any religion or religious leanings.
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glassman
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"We have learned that voluntary regulation does not work," said Christopher Cox, chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission, in testimony on Thursday at the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee. "It was a fateful mistake" that no one was given the authority "to regulate investment bank holding companies other than on a voluntary basis."
http://www.economyincrisis.org/articles/show/1990


Christopher Cox, Bush appointee and former Reagan employee, during the second term of Ronald Reagan from 1986 to 1988, he served in the White House as Senior Associate Counsel to the President. His duties included advising on the nomination of three Supreme Court justices, the establishment of the Brady Commission following the 1987 market crash...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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bdgee
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It is a bit late for them to be growing up. The horse has been out for several years.
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raybond
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Propertymanager:
Raybond,

You are absolutely correct that the GOP must change or they will certainly die. However, you are 100% wrong in the way they must change! If the GOP wants to survive, they MUST get back to conservative, common sense values. It is clear (as you said) that you don't have a clue what "conservative means". Let me make it simple for you and list the issues from a conservative standpoint.

Conservatives are:

Pro-gun
Against abortion
Against gay marriage
Pro-Christianity
Against handouts to the lazy
Against the scam of global warming
For drilling for oil in the United States
Pro-Israel
Pro-Democracy
Against Socialism
Pro-Capitalism
Pro-creationism
Pro-business
For the right to PURSUE happiness - against a guarantee of happiness
For equal rights for all - against quotas for minorities

If you have any other questions, please ask. I AM a true conservative.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thats crazy that is not a consevative and since when is a conservative a christian only I would say you have it about half right if that.

You are the reason the party is doomed unles you leave it and form you own party Pro business who in america is not except the .commies and they are in there own party.

And while you are at it don't keep inferring you are the only one who is a christian just because you wrap it in the flag and want to make it the law of the land which is very unamerican.

Sounds to me what you discribed is something we kicked the hell out of hear in 1776 must of forgot a few and you guys multiplied

--------------------
Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.

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CashCowMoo
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Republican women:

 -


Enough said.

--------------------
It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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buckstalker
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Don't know about republican...but she could shoot my Mathews anytime...

--------------------
***********************

It's all in the timing...

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wallymac
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quote:
Originally posted by Propertymanager:
Raybond,

You are absolutely correct that the GOP must change or they will certainly die. However, you are 100% wrong in the way they must change! If the GOP wants to survive, they MUST get back to conservative, common sense values. It is clear (as you said) that you don't have a clue what "conservative means". Let me make it simple for you and list the issues from a conservative standpoint.

Conservatives are:

Pro-gun
Against abortion
Against gay marriage
Pro-Christianity
Against handouts to the lazy
Against the scam of global warming
For drilling for oil in the United States
Pro-Israel
Pro-Democracy
Against Socialism
Pro-Capitalism
Pro-creationism
Pro-business
For the right to PURSUE happiness - against a guarantee of happiness
For equal rights for all - against quotas for minorities

If you have any other questions, please ask. I AM a true conservative.

Reading this post only tells me one thing and that is that you are a true idiot.

Everything you posted is the problem with the Republican Party. It attempts to divide the nation instead of looking at things logically. I have yet to meet a person that is PRO Abortion though I know many that are for allowing a woman to have a choice over what goes on with her own body.

I also don't know anyone who is for giving money to the lazy but do know many that take the "Christian" attitude of helping your fellow man when he is down.

I could go on and on.
[Wall Bang]

America became a great country because it's citizens pulled together not apart.

I guess you never heard the saying: "Divide and Conquer."

If we are to make it through this catastrophy, as a nation, we need to pulled together not apart.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
Republican women:

 -


Enough said.

LOL, CCM she's cheating, she's using a release, real bow shooters use their bare fingers [Big Grin]

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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bdgee
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
Republican women:

 -


Enough said.

LOL, CCM she's cheating, she's using a release, real bow shooters use their bare fingers :D
True, but here equipment is superb.
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Propertymanager
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quote:
...since when is a conservative a christian only I would say you have it about half right if that.
Your reading skills are sadly lacking. My post didn't say anything about a conservative being "Christian only".

quote:
And while you are at it don't keep inferring you are the only one who is a christian just because you wrap it in the flag and want to make it the law of the land which is very unamerican.
Reading skills again! I didn't say or infer that I am the only one who is a Christian. There are at least tens of millions of Christians in the US.

quote:
Sounds to me what you discribed is something we kicked the hell out of hear in 1776 must of forgot a few and you guys multiplied
Gibberish.
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bdgee
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"If we are to make it through this catastrophy, as a nation, we need to pulled together not apart."

wallymac,


I whole heartedly agree....in principle...

But, as seems to be the case with the great majority of Americans, I cannot and will not be part of a party that includes the moral likes of a PM. and, if the sentiment (and lack of rationality) he demands remains the that of the republican party, I'll watch it die from afar and shed not a single tear.

Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
glassman
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PM, what does "pro-creationism" mean anyway?

does it mean that you would ignore scientific evidence?

cuz beleif in creatioism also implies that the world (and people) is less than 10,000 years old.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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raybond
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It will be fun watching the idiots that have taken over the republican party die.

Maybe we should give them there own states cut off all federal funds to them and forget about them forever. Another words a banishment.

They have earned it

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Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.

Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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