they just put the sweat shirts witht ebullet holes on TV.
the bullet hole appears to me to be a perfect heart shot upper left quadrant means it should have been instant death....
still waiting to hear about other facts, but plain an dsimple, when you are involved in a heated hand to hand battle? the odds of getting a perfect heart shot are so far against you it is almost impossible..
or it is just really really bad luck for both of them...
Posted by glassman on :
this is the most interesting court testimony i've ever watched, becuase of the technical issues they are trying to address.
kel tech gives the following descrition of the fireamr that i beleive they are testifying about:
PF-9
The PF-9 is a semi-automatic, locked breech pistol, chambered for the 9mm Luger cartridge. It has been developed from our highly successful P-11 and P-3AT pistols with maximum concealability in mind. The PF-9 has a single stack magazine holding 7 rounds. It is one of the lightest and flattest 9 mm ever made. Firing mechanism is Double-Action Only with an automatic hammer block safety. The PF-9 is available in blued, parkerized, and hard chrome finishes. Grips are in black, grey, and olive drab.
an m-1911-A1 45 ACP ( old school officers sidearm) has a safety feature few people are aware of, if you press the gun hard against someon it won't fire becaise it moves the slide back and blocks the hammer... the kel tech here apparently doesn't have that....
Posted by NR on :
Haven't had much time to follow this minute by minute, but based on what I saw the other day, if the prosecution's "star witness" is Rachel Jeantel, then they have A LOT of work to do if they plan on getting a conviction...
Posted by raybond on :
from what I saw today the testimony was interesting but I can't see its value to the case, unless its purpose is to side track the trial. Its possible that this could be the legal ploy of the century or a lawyer trying to run up the bill.
Posted by glassman on :
the prosecution put the case on today..
they have to prove that a homicide occurred, the defnse laywer would never stipulate to that, so they had to present all of that forensic evidence to prove a person died, sounds silly but that's how the sytem works... . they mostly spent alot of time proving how good the forensics people are... SOP..
the real case begins when Zimmerna tries to prove he was acting in self-defense.. the prosecution DOES NOT have to prove that he didn't. it's waht they call and "affirmative defense"...
the death of Martin is clear, the fact that Zimmerran pulled th tripper is now clear too...
the "twist" in all this will come upon the Judges instruction t teh the jury.
the judge can tell teh jury that "just" by getting out of his car and being armed and then following the kid? Zimmerman is guilty of maybe manslaughter, maybe worse depnding on how they feel about the rest fo the evidence.... isn't following a kid around in public with a gun what we call stalking?
the judge MAY not give those instructions too... the judge me ask them to decide for htemsleves if following the kid around wiht gun (which is now established) may have been OK for him to do legally..
it's not an easy question... at least it is being made in court and not at the police station.
in the US? the cops are not acting as lawyers, they record the evidence and make the charges. then Prosecutors decide whether to follow the cops charges up or not... that was why this case got so much attention at first becuase the cops didn't file charges and they are not lawyers...
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by NR: Haven't had much time to follow this minute by minute, but based on what I saw the other day, if the prosecution's "star witness" is Rachel Jeantel, then they have A LOT of work to do if they plan on getting a conviction...
today was th eonly day i've watched, i was checking on the Egypt stuff and saw teh gun epxert was testifying and got interested for awhile.. most of this is boring as he77. i do no tagree with some of the peopel who claim the kel-tech 9 is a cop gun. it's abck-up peice only for coips because it only holds 7 rounds and it is easy to conceal...... cops want the bigger magazines i cannot imagine a cop carrying that peice as his or her primary, but i can imagine it being in a conceal holster.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: they just put the sweat shirts witht ebullet holes on TV.
the bullet hole appears to me to be a perfect heart shot upper left quadrant means it should have been instant death....
still waiting to hear about other facts, but plain an dsimple, when you are involved in a heated hand to hand battle? the odds of getting a perfect heart shot are so far against you it is almost impossible..
or it is just really really bad luck for both of them...
" the odds of getting a perfect heart shot are so far against you it is almost impossible.."
the prosecutor jsut said the same thing the wording was slightly differnt..
manslaughter, 5 years IMO...
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
quote:Originally posted by glassman: they just put the sweat shirts witht ebullet holes on TV.
the bullet hole appears to me to be a perfect heart shot upper left quadrant means it should have been instant death....
still waiting to hear about other facts, but plain an dsimple, when you are involved in a heated hand to hand battle? the odds of getting a perfect heart shot are so far against you it is almost impossible..
or it is just really really bad luck for both of them...
" the odds of getting a perfect heart shot are so far against you it is almost impossible.."
the prosecutor jsut said the same thing the wording was slightly differnt..
manslaughter, 5 years IMO...
Yeah, I see manslaughter, but you cant just do that now. The prosecution went for 2nd degree murder which is not what I see as the proper charge. 2nd degree murder is overkill, but I think it was done to appease certain people.
So, OJ Simpson can get off because they said it was racism, he killed TWO people, high speed chase caught on helicopter TV, all the evidence showed it was him, and everything that came out after that, but yet no justice for the murdered.
If zimmerman is found not guilty just watch what happens. Riots, burning things down, racially backed assaults, etc.
Posted by glassman on :
cashcow, all of the evidence did not show it was OJ . period.
OJ had to have done everything they said he did perfectly for it to have been him. this was not over period of few minutes, it was over a period of hours. he would have had to be superman to do what they said he did.
people WANT to think of him as that guy on the ball feild who could run great. but that wasn't a footbal game. it required him to make about 100 carefull decision and run a whole game at he same time. no fottball players ever do that on the feild, not even the best quarterbacks. the very best all have about two quarters in them at most. a "four quarter prfect game" happens less than once in about hundred pro players lifetimes...
and lastly? OJ was long retired and beat to crap and not in game form when that went down. they did not prove anything in htat court room.
this Zimmerna case is only about how far self defense actaully goes, no more no less.
i have caught peopel braking nto my car in th edark in my carport before and knew better than to shoot them even if it is legqal (such as in Texas) so do you. is it worth it to kill somebody for 100$? noway, it is worth it to save your life or soemoene else but, i woulldn't shoot soembdoy just to save my dog. and evn tho i love the dam thing? if he bites soembdy? he's on his way to heaven and i'll send him .... facts of life...
zimmeran should get five, out in two and he'll be legitimately blocked form owning a firearm ever again.. that's jusitce IMO...
Posted by glassman on :
only 23 pitchers in major league histroy have pitched perfect games....
do you know many friggin players and games ther ehave been? it began in 1876 the seasons are waht 150 games? or so?....
OJ couldnot have done it alone or unplanned. the cops pretty much went after him and him alone.
teh ssue in this case is that the cops pretended that Trayvon was a burglar or soemthing and had no rights in order to allow Zimmernamn to not be charged with anything.
toally insane, and another example of the police being outacontrol IMO. who works for who? to protect and serve? hmmmm...
one ofmy kids is trayvons age, was wahtever, my kid would not have confroented somebody like that IMO (but i am not sure) i would have when i was his age. the real problem is that zimmerna would not have followed me cuz i'm not black Posted by glassman on :
in th eend of this thing? it's got to be manslaughter with light term because no matter who or what? manslaughter means somebody died (provern) and we have no way of knowign why or how there's not one witness.
is that bad luck? maybe... maybe not. it's really friggin bad luck for Trayovon and his family no matter how you slice it. Zimmerna should never have followed the kid around because he never saw crime being commmitted and he admits that so it's alos proven... it is the defintion of stalking...
proof is not opinion, the ME gave good definition of fact V opinion in his testimony if it's on youtube? i recomend watching all the testimony of themedical examiner... it was awesome. facts can be measured, opinions cannot...
it all suxz, lots of stuff suxz.. zimmeran can go itno jail and do some good there if he's agood person. if he ain't? then he belongs there anyway....
Posted by rounder1 on :
I have not followed the trial at all but unless this guy is glossing over whatever revelations may have come out in the prosecution's case I have to believe this article to be correct....especially the unpredictability of juries....
juries are unpredctable. it is my persoanl opinion htattheFounders did in fact create the twleve juror systme because they recognised the fallibiltiy of the systme.
i belive that they wanted twelve peopleto come to gehter in a jury at th eend of the day and judge not just the defendant, but alos the prosecutor and the judge and the lawmakers.
all of these mandatory sentence they have? most of them were designed to circumvent the jury decision making systme. for years, juries wer not asked about the death penalty. the Judges were handed verdict and the judge then passed the judges decison of sentence. That was found uncostitutioanl. But th eimplication htat is uncosntittuaionl ALSO implies that the Jury and the jury only should decide sentences...
lawyers get into this stuff and make it all much more complicated than it should be becuase they bill by the hour.... and we all know they win cases they should not win. especially in white collar crime...... money does keep people out of jail, and how good plea deal yu get offered is usually directly proportioanl to how much it will cost to prosecute you versus how much money you can shell out ( poor people can't pay for a strong defense, guilty or innocnet)
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Originally Posted By Glassman:
lawyers get into this stuff and make it all much more complicated than it should be becuase they bill by the hour -------------------------------------------------
Exactly, this is one of the big reasons our court systems are so backed up.
The judges are/were lawyers and everyone associated with the court system makes more $ by delaying cases more, except the client
The judges will give cases more and more time to delay a trial date, no matter what the reason.
at $350 an hour or more why not, lawyers can waste several hours to days just sitting and waiting to say, yes your honor. Then go back to their office and get the bill ready for their clients.
The system is a mess at all levels and money is the main reason, the bigger the mess the more money is made by some.
-
Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Originally Posted By Glassman:
lawyers get into this stuff and make it all much more complicated than it should be becuase they bill by the hour -------------------------------------------------
Exactly, this is one of the big reasons our court systems are so backed up.
The judges are/were lawyers and everyone associated with the court system makes more $ by delaying cases more, except the client
The judges will give cases more and more time to delay a trial date, no matter what the reason.
at $350 an hour or more why not, lawyers can waste several hours to days just sitting and waiting to say, yes your honor. Then go back to their office and get the bill ready for their clients.
The system is a mess at all levels and money is the main reason, the bigger the mess the more money is made by some.
-
You need to take a look at India's legal system if you think the US legal system is backed up. You'll prolly change you're opinion. Well....at least you should anyway.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Originally Posted By Pagan:
You need to take a look at India's legal system if you think the US legal system is backed up. You'll prolly change you're opinion. Well....at least you should anyway. -------------------------------------------------
Yea i know, sad isn't it, my opinion won't change.India has it's problems as do other countries of the world.
It is very frustrating if you have to go through the court system, especially when the bills come in.
The simplest stuff, becomes very complicated when it enters the court system, much of it because of the money involved.
-
Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Originally Posted By Pagan:
You need to take a look at India's legal system if you think the US legal system is backed up. You'll prolly change you're opinion. Well....at least you should anyway. -------------------------------------------------
Yea i know, sad isn't it, my opinion won't change.India has it's problems as do other countries of the world.
It is very frustrating if you have to go through the court system, especially when the bills come in.
The simplest stuff, becomes very complicated when it enters the court system, much of it because of the money involved.
-
Well...if you dislike the US system...then what should you do? It's obvious there is an issue. Hence the reason I asked you to observe the Indian system. What would you prefer? The US or something different? Curious to hear your solution.
Posted by glassman on :
India may have bad legal system but the US has more people in jail;
China
In 2001 the incarceration rate in China was 111 per 100,000[citation needed] (sentenced prisoners only).
New Zealand
The rate imprisonment in New Zealand in 2011 was 198 per 100,000.[6] India
India has one of the lowest incarceration rates with 281,000 prisoners in their jails.[5] This is a rate of just under 25 per 100,000; given a total population, 1,129,866,154.[5] India reported 1,764,630 crimes in 2007.[5] There were 236,313 assaults and 111,296 burglaries. United States Main articles: United States incarceration rate and Incarceration in the United States
The United States' incarceration rate is, according to 2009 figures, 743 persons imprisoned per 100,000 (as of 2009).[7] The United States has 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's incarcerated population.[8]
yeah it's wiki alrtight but it's correct and verified by any number of other sources. we are the wrost criminal justice sytem in the world for some strange reason... we lie to ourselves about it, and the main reason is simply cash-money
Posted by glassman on :
the following is perfect example of why we became police state, the cops are ONLY doing thisbecaue they get money cars adn brownie points for catching people who are doing what exaclty? and they are allowed to lie to US, but if you check the the laws? if you lie to them? you are automatically a felon if they want to make the case. all of this was done in th ebeginning to get rid of murderers, but now its just for having something that other people don't like.
the lawyers cheer on the cops while they are being cowboys cuz they get a paycheck out of it too...
Fake drug checkpoint in Mayfield Heights is legal, experts say
The sign says it's a drug checkpoint but it's not. (Courtesy of Bill Peters)
Mark Gillispie, The Plain Dealer By Mark Gillispie, The Plain Dealer Email the author on June 28, 2013 at 7:25 PM, updated July 03, 2013 at 9:22 AM
MAYFIELD HEIGHTS, Ohio -- Police are not allowed to use checkpoints to search motorists and their vehicles for drugs. So, in Mayfield Heights, officers are trying the next-best thing -- fake drug checkpoints.
Police gathered in the express lanes of Interstate 271 on Monday after placing signs along the freeway warning motorists that a drug checkpoint lay ahead.
There was no checkpoint, only police waiting for motorists to react suspiciously after seeing the signs. A Mayfield Heights assistant prosecutor says it's a lawful and legitimate tactic in his city's war on drugs.
am tho nly person who is just plain disgusted by the whole thing? i can safely go theru any chackpoint, i got nothing to hide, but don't really feel much like cooperating anymore. cuz it's just palin disgusting..
Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: India may have bad legal system but the US has more people in jail;
China
In 2001 the incarceration rate in China was 111 per 100,000[citation needed] (sentenced prisoners only).
New Zealand
The rate imprisonment in New Zealand in 2011 was 198 per 100,000.[6] India
India has one of the lowest incarceration rates with 281,000 prisoners in their jails.[5] This is a rate of just under 25 per 100,000; given a total population, 1,129,866,154.[5] India reported 1,764,630 crimes in 2007.[5] There were 236,313 assaults and 111,296 burglaries. United States Main articles: United States incarceration rate and Incarceration in the United States
The United States' incarceration rate is, according to 2009 figures, 743 persons imprisoned per 100,000 (as of 2009).[7] The United States has 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's incarcerated population.[8]
yeah it's wiki alrtight but it's correct and verified by any number of other sources. we are the wrost criminal justice sytem in the world for some strange reason... we lie to ourselves about it, and the main reason is simply cash-money
As usual...what you posted has nothing to do with what was being discussed. LMAO
Posted by glassman on :
as usual Pagan you think that becauee you don't see the connection there is none.... LOL.. you shouldnt admit things like that Posted by rounder1 on :
Here is an interesting sidebar since we are discussing the legal system. I just got arrested tonight....and all though you cannot tell from the written text; I am absolutely fuming!
I was a big time criminal too....lemme tell you about it.
First off, I was completely polite and compliant without exception. The officer was about as nice as you could ask for from an arresting officer.
The stop was initiated because he said that I had a headlight out....this occurred at dusk but I know that it was working this morning when I drove to work at 5:00 AM. Upon being stopped we both discovered/realized that my license expired on June 27th. Other than that nothing....no drinking,drugs, speeding, swerving, insurance was paid up, tag was good....nothing. The officer and I were completely amicable for the entire ordeal.
Nevertheless,I was handcuffed taken to the sheriffs office...handcuffs removed and manacles applied to my ankles. I was fingerprinted (electronically). After being detained for approximately 1.5 hours I was told that I could post a 400 dollar cash bond and go home....Oh, I forgot to mention they had my truck towed....even though I personally know the owner of the station where I pulled over and he would not have cared at all had I left my truck in his lot. I have a court date in a month before....I am supposed to have the other 400 dollars paid by then or appear in court.
Now if you are anything like me you are probably thinking; "there is no way all of that happened due to an expired license and headlight being out." I can't believe it either and that is why I am so damn pissed.
I will be happy to scan the citation, and cash bond receipt to show any non-believers.
This chit is ridicules....it is precisely this type of behaviour on the part of law enforcement that cause major resentment among regular people...just trying to get from point A to point B.
I know the sheriff pretty well, I know the Police Chief pretty well, I am good friends with the mayor...(yeah, small town). I play poker with the town prosecutor...hell, I cooked for his wedding reception. I am pretty sure that I can get out of this since there is not really chit to it. But I have never asked a favor like that from anyone...I don't wanna ask for one now...but what the piss ever happened to discretion and common sense.
I still don't know about being able to be arrested for my particular offenses but I was in violation so I complied with the officer long enough to get loose.
In all honesty, I think what I hate the most about the entire ordeal is the way that it makes me feel about things like police...its amazing to me even as I type this very sentence the amount of animosity that can be generated over what I perceive to be stupid indiscretion....all in the name of generating revenue.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Originally Posted By Pagan:
Well...if you dislike the US system...then what should you do? It's obvious there is an issue. Hence the reason I asked you to observe the Indian system. What would you prefer? The US or something different? Curious to hear your solution. -------------------------------------------------
Gripe what else?
The Indian system appears to have more flaws than just getting to court, from the very little i know and the very little i care to know. It appears you can pretty much get away with anything in some areas, especially against women, without even worrying about a legal system.
But that seems to be the case in other countries also.
Do not think i want to touch India's, Mexico's or many other countries legal systems, seeems like a life time goal to become an expert to even know where to start.
As far as the US system and what i should do, other than gripe. Not really sure i can do a lot by myself. Maybe if i had two or three hundred million dollars and lots of time i wanted to use on trying to change the legal system.
Wish i had a quick and easy solution to just the flaws that i see when i have entered the court system.
Unfortunately i don't, but as i said there is a ton of money involved for a very few people with a lot of power, and i am very sure that it is hard to penetrate this core, even if i had 200 million spare change.
Maybe you have observed better things in court system than me.
How can judges continually delay court dates for almost anything, backing up the systems for real trials.
It's all about money and those unlucky people that enter the court system without any, better hope they have a lucky rabbits foot, or a good cause that a lawyer can get publicity from. If not, there is a good chance he or she will be on the short end of the stick.
The bigger the case the more money you need, expert testimony doesn't come cheap and the lawyers hourly fee's will eat most of us alive.
Knew of a salesman back in the 80's, shot and killed a guy in self defense, at least that's what he said. The salesman said they pulled off the road when the other guy had road rage. Anyway, the last i had heard he had millions into his defense.
Not much is simple anymore in the court system, maybe its the laws, maybe it's the lawyers, it's both.
-
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Sorry to hear that Rounder 1.
Doesn't surprise me if it's anything like i have been hearing from others, but it does not make it right.
Good Luck.
Posted by glassman on :
Rounder, I'm not sure why you were arrested to be honest. Those are all misdemaeanors.
I drove around for several weeks with an expire dl icense lat year by accident too... it's a birthday thing here. when i renewed mine i went ahead and got it for twenty years.. crazy huh? i don't even want to live in this state now...
when you go to get your new one? you'll need your social, proof of residence like electric bill and more, make sure you check first so you know what all to bring. all this began this year because of terroists and illegal immigrant laws... that's why i got mine for so long last year.
they have me listed as a feamle on mine now, can't wait for somenutjob to catch that one and put me in the clink and they made me give up a thumbprint which had been optional before. not any more....
pretty soon? it'll be an app on your phone long with your resime and your medical history.. once they get everybodyu hooked on htat? they'll put all on an RFID chip in your wirst along with your fincial records and credit reprts and credit cards... all designed to make your life easier (right?)
Posted by glassman on :
OK, Rounder, so far? I haven't found a procedure specific to traffic violations and misdemeanors in GA. However, Ga does recognise thatthey should not be hauling people to jail for every other type of misdemaeanor. I would expect you have to been given asummons to appear and sent home as long as yur car was not on the road anymore...
Copyright (c) 2005 Georgia State University Georgia State University Law Review ARTICLE: SHOULD GEORGIA CHANGE ITS MISDEMEANOR ARREST LAWS TO AUTHORIZE ISSUING MORE FIELD CITATIONS?
CAN AN ALTERNATIVE ARREST PROCESS HELP ALLEVIATE GEORGIA'S JAIL OVERCROWDING AND REDUCE THE TIME ARRESTING OFFICERS EXPEND PROCESSING NONTRAFFIC MISDEMEANOR OFFENSES?
Winter, 2005 22 Ga. St. U.L. Rev. 313 Author Judge Warren Davis*, Chief Magistrate, Gwinnett County, Georgia
Excerpt
Introduction
A sampling of headlines of Georgia newspapers regularly cites two recurring criminal justice problems: (1) overcrowded jails and (2) a shortage of law enforcement officers.n1 This Article explores whether implementing a discretionary arrest process for nontraffic misdemeanor offenders could help alleviate both of these problems. In appropriate cases, the proposed alternative lessens the number of misdemeanor offenders held in pretrial detention facilities by eliminating custodial arrests and subsequent bonding procedures. With fewer misdemeanor offenders initially incarcerated, jail overcrowding lessens. The alternative process can also decrease the time arresting officers spend to arrest, process, "book," and seek arrest warrants for these nontraffic misdemeanor offenders, freeing these officers to perform other patrol duties.
This discretionary, alternative arrest process is not new. It already exists as the criminal procedure alternative to custodial arrests for nontraffic offenses in 46 states.n2 A number of national police organizations as well as organizations responsible for setting criminal justice standards throughout the United States have endorsed the discretionary procedure:
i think you can access this link without subscrition
Yeah...that is kinda what I was thinking as well. I was not even tested for DUI...no field sobriety...roadside breathalyzer....nothing.
But as it stands right now a dark headlamp and expired license is going to cost $950 by the time you tack on the $150 that it cost to have my truck towed 3.5 miles.
Anyway...thx for the article. The circumstance of this dictated I had to come work last night when I was let go because that was the only time I could count on a ride so if I am figuring I have worked 20 out of the last 37 hours and have been awake with no sleep since 4 AM yesterday...and it looks like its gonna be several more hours before I will be able to get a ride home.....all over petty chit.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Here is an interesting article below, towards the end sums it up.
it "had" to be him because IBM AND DEC (Digital Eq. Corp, #1 and #2 in the early 80's) both rejected him entirely.
both companies had their chance to contract withim and thus abosrb abd control him and htey blew him off an dignored him.
trust me i know (elder) people in both companies that laughed about him in the mid-80's and said he was crazy to put so much effort into personal computing devices.. these peopel were all so deep inot the mainframe/workstation and mini-main-frame mentality that they saw PC as nothing more than trumped up typewriters... had either IBM or DEC been smart enough they would stll be on to. worse is that they the govt juice then to shut him down complelteyl if they wanted... they didn't...
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
But it's the third to the last paragraph that i was laughing about, and relates to what were talking about.
Money Trumps Law.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by rounder1: Yeah...that is kinda what I was thinking as well. I was not even tested for DUI...no field sobriety...roadside breathalyzer....nothing.
But as it stands right now a dark headlamp and expired license is going to cost $950 by the time you tack on the $150 that it cost to have my truck towed 3.5 miles.
Anyway...thx for the article. The circumstance of this dictated I had to come work last night when I was let go because that was the only time I could count on a ride so if I am figuring I have worked 20 out of the last 37 hours and have been awake with no sleep since 4 AM yesterday...and it looks like its gonna be several more hours before I will be able to get a ride home.....all over petty chit.
i'm not a lwayer, but if you pay the 950 to alwayer? and ask him why you got 'detained" (cuffed is detainment) over an expried license? you might be able to ge the whole thing to go away...
still out hte 950$ tho, AND your lawayer might be a chit and lose it anyway...
I owned a baot in Va. (actualyl i had about five) but i used to keep them in NC because i wa sonly 1 mile for the state line, and the boats were all for offshore tuna and bill fishing, so they don't tow very well... Wehn iwent to buy this hous i'm in 8 years later? the mortgage co. MADE me paya Va tax bill of 150$ for a boat i never had to pay taxes on. the mortgage co refused to give the loan even with a 780 plus credit rtatin over 20% down AND a 12% ratio of house payment to income... go figure that chit... i could have spent 500$ to go "fix" the buill or pay the 150$. I DID pay taxes on the boat i kept in Va at the house -it was only 18 feet and easily towable.. the odd part is that i had owne dht eboat for years and they only demande the one year of moeny and they only demanded that moeny about a year and half after i left Va to live in Ca.... it was all nonesense.
we are just a nation of crooks.
Posted by glassman on :
if it makes you feel any better? Zimmerman was cuffed the nnight he shot Treyvon... at least they didn't let him off scott free right away Posted by glassman on :
just out of curisoity? did they collect a DNA sample? (cheek swab)
getting rid of this pattern of behavior by "leagal authorities" is why about 10% of US voters chose Obama over hillary and romeny...
he was supposed to be Constitutional Law Professor who would tkae action to curb all these abuses.. so sad to know he isn't up to the job.
Posted by rounder1 on :
No they did not. Honestly, I believe that would be the point at which I would get myself in bigger trouble.
Posted by glassman on :
actaully? IMO, you did very well to not get yourself into more trouble for being cuffed. i would have been tempoted to take the cuffs off and hand them back to eh officer as a joke...
Concealable, plastic universal handcuff Key - 4 Pack of keys. 4 Different Colors. Popular as a SERE kit key.
Universal "plastic" handcuff key opens all brand of cuffs. The flat, round shape conceals its purpose as a handcuff key. Made from thermoplastic resin blend, this durable, lightweight handcuff key evades metal detectors and can be hidden behind shirt and pant buttons or siliconed beneath watches and mace cans. This universal handcuff key can be hooked on shirt tags, pant leg hems, hat brims, sun glasses cords, spare buttons, etc. This universal handcuff key was designed and patented for hostage evasion scenarios. Handcuffs continue to be the restraint of choice for hostage management, given their wide availability and ease of hostage transport. Thus, this concealable, durable universal handcuff key could be a life saver for travelers abroad.
In the event that personnel are trapped in a pair of handcuffs or related leg restraints, they can silently access and remove these universal handcuff keys hidden in their clothing. Using their thumb and index finger on one hand, they can silently twist out the universal cuff key from its retaining ring and unlock the cuffs. While slightly larger than a nickel the unique design of this universal handcuff key enables the user to secure the cuff key behind buttons on any type of clothing and buttoning the clothing normally over top the key. The extremely lightweight form factor does not show through the clothing, nor does it create any telling ripples or wrinkles in the clothing. Even the latest technology in metal detectors does not reveal the presence of this universal plastic handcuff key.
these are also now printable in the new computer 3d pritners Posted by Lockman on :
Zimmerman should walk, self defense.
Procecution should not be allowed to ask for lessor charge if it was not disclosed.
Any conviction in this case will be overturned upon appeal.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Lockman: Zimmerman should walk, self defense.
Procecution should not be allowed to ask for lessor charge if it was not disclosed.
Any conviction in this case will be overturned upon appeal.
manslaughter is the lesser charge that was accepted. it's not as simple as self-defense. did you watch them slamming the dummy on the ground?
Zimmerman otuweighed martin by 50 lbs, that dummy flopped around like rag dol.. but we all know that's BS.... manslughter is what happened. there is no doubt.
self-defense is not beyond doubt. however, the jury is who gets to decide that not you and me...
it's chitty situation, made worse by cops who refused to do their job. you have to ask yourself what the kid did wrong. and what would you do if some dude started following you around when you are walking in your own neighborhood...
appeal? what appeal? you do not have an automatic right to appeal a jury verdict
that's why the judge asked Zimmerman specifically if he would testify, becuase he now cannot say he had bad legal represetnation on that point..
even more important? he didn't testify in his own behalf on self-defense.... that IS VERY BAD. he needdd to look at the jury and tell them he was afraid for his life... that's self-defense... nobdoy else can say what he was thinking but himslef... he didn't do that, the jury has little choice now, but to convict him on manslughter which was always on the docket. the judge could have "canceled" that ticket, but she didn't.
Posted by raybond on :
one thing I have learned in my life is never guess what a jury will do, especially a jury that is 100% women. All I can say to all of you don't be surprised.
Posted by glassman on :
i won't be surprised, they could convict him of murder based on his telephone calls - and they could turn him loose based on being supportive of neighborhood watch...
Posted by raybond on :
Another all I can say is I hope my old lady does not read my post
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by raybond: Another all I can say is I hope my old lady does not read my post
LOL... it's not sexist, it just show how us inferior males cannot figger out how women really think... Posted by glassman on :
the Judge is a woman too.... so Zimmerna is not being judged by his peers, he's being judged by his superiors Posted by T e x on :
quote:Originally posted by rounder1: Here is an interesting sidebar since we are discussing the legal system. I just got arrested tonight....and all though you cannot tell from the written text; I am absolutely fuming!
I was a big time criminal too....lemme tell you about it.
First off, I was completely polite and compliant without exception. The officer was about as nice as you could ask for from an arresting officer.
The stop was initiated because he said that I had a headlight out....this occurred at dusk but I know that it was working this morning when I drove to work at 5:00 AM. Upon being stopped we both discovered/realized that my license expired on June 27th. Other than that nothing....no drinking,drugs, speeding, swerving, insurance was paid up, tag was good....nothing. The officer and I were completely amicable for the entire ordeal.
Nevertheless,I was handcuffed taken to the sheriffs office...handcuffs removed and manacles applied to my ankles. I was fingerprinted (electronically). After being detained for approximately 1.5 hours I was told that I could post a 400 dollar cash bond and go home....Oh, I forgot to mention they had my truck towed....even though I personally know the owner of the station where I pulled over and he would not have cared at all had I left my truck in his lot. I have a court date in a month before....I am supposed to have the other 400 dollars paid by then or appear in court.
Now if you are anything like me you are probably thinking; "there is no way all of that happened due to an expired license and headlight being out." I can't believe it either and that is why I am so damn pissed.
I will be happy to scan the citation, and cash bond receipt to show any non-believers.
This chit is ridicules....it is precisely this type of behaviour on the part of law enforcement that cause major resentment among regular people...just trying to get from point A to point B.
I know the sheriff pretty well, I know the Police Chief pretty well, I am good friends with the mayor...(yeah, small town). I play poker with the town prosecutor...hell, I cooked for his wedding reception. I am pretty sure that I can get out of this since there is not really chit to it. But I have never asked a favor like that from anyone...I don't wanna ask for one now...but what the piss ever happened to discretion and common sense.
I still don't know about being able to be arrested for my particular offenses but I was in violation so I complied with the officer long enough to get loose.
In all honesty, I think what I hate the most about the entire ordeal is the way that it makes me feel about things like police...its amazing to me even as I type this very sentence the amount of animosity that can be generated over what I perceive to be stupid indiscretion....all in the name of generating revenue.
If you can't get a straight answer from your bud the prosecutor, I'd say hire the best damn lawyer you can afford (even if out of town, but an expert in these matters), to at least look over the case.
Something is wrong.
Oh, as for the main point of this thread, I'd say Glass has his pulse on Vegas...
Posted by glassman on :
rounder, it occurs to me that the towing company may have a reward program in place for getting business... i was peripherally aware of such schemes at times in the past (in different places)
Posted by rounder1 on :
I was wondering if something like that was not going on. One of the two cops that were present was in an awful big hurry to have it towed. He asked me if I had someone that could come and get it and I did. He allowed them maybe 15 minutes to get there...my guys got their about 25 minutes after I called them and the wrecker was already picking it up.
I still have not decided what steps I may take. I spent yesterday at the DDS (formerly known as the DMV) getting a renewed license....which now requires two pieces of mail with current address, social security card, and certified birth certificate.
At any rate, I think I am going to give it a couple of days before I do anything else...wanna be good and cooled off and then try and take an objective look at the entire thing....
My apologies for High-Jacking the thread.
Posted by glassman on :
which now requires two pieces of mail with current address, social security card, and certified birth certificate.
beleive it or not? becuase of the politics and the socio-economic crises of where i live? my kids have had to have that to enroll in school every year since i got here 8 years ago... even to re-enroll in the same school Posted by glassman on :
as defense attroney? i would not like it that the jury got this on a Friday afternoon- i haven't been watching the boobtube today, so i assume that htey are not being sent home for the weekend...
and even tho i have expressed my opinion thta it's manslaughter, i agree witth raybond in that any jury could come back with anything, i didn't see the same stuff the jury saw...
if Zimmerman walks? i expect to have lot's of issue where i live... even "only" a manslaughter conviction with the sentence i proposed would likely be cause for serious "tensions"- the living condition where i live are sub-standard even for MS:
The Mississ ippi Delta consists of a number of counties on either side of the Missis sippi River in Mississippi, Arkansas, and Louisiana, that used to be the alluvial floodplain for the river. This land, flat and fertile from years of Mississippi River flooding, creat ed the unique agricultural heritage of the region. The Delta counties have many cultural and historical similarities, including the Delta’s claim to being the birthplace of the Blues. However, the Delta also suffers many persistent and troubling health, economic, and social problems. T he following figures from the U.S. Census Bureau, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the Bureau of Labor Statistics, and the Delta Health Alliance show that the Mississippi Delta’s conditions are among the worst in the nation, often on par with those of some developing countries: • Nationally, the percent of individuals living below poverty is 12.4%. This rate is 19.9% in Mississippi and 29.16% in the Mississippi Delta. • Nationally, the median family household incom e in 2007 was $50,233. Mississippi ranks 50 th in the U.S. with regard to household income, at $32,397. This rate is even lower for the Delta. • Nationally, 19.6% of adults do not have a high school diploma. The percentage of adults in Mississippi without a high school diploma is 27.1%, while 36.48% of adults in the Mississippi Delta lack a high school diploma. • Nationally, the infant mortality rate is 6.8 per thousand births. The rate in Mississippi is over 10 per thousand, the highest in the nation. The rat e is over 17 in some Mississippi Delta counties. • Mississippi leads the United States in its obesity rate (32.8%), the rate of deaths resulting from cardiovascular disease (rates 30% above the national median), and stroke death rate. Though these alarmin g statistics tell a grim story about the Delta, it is not the whole story. http://www.law.harvard.edu/academics/clinical/lsc/Delta_Fellow_2013.pdf Posted by raybond on :
Liz Goodwin, Yahoo! News Liz Goodwin, Yahoo! News 1 hour ago SocietyShooting of Trayvon Martin
.
SANFORD, Fla--After more than 12 hours of deliberation, the jury in the George Zimmerman case has asked the court for "clarification" on the charge of manslaughter. The question is likely to make the defense nervous, since it suggests the all-female jury could be seriously weighing a conviction on the lesser charge in the case.
Both the prosecution and defense agreed that the jurors need to ask a more specific question, saying they cannot engage in "general discussions" about the charge. Judge Debra Nelson agreed to send the attorneys' response back to the jurors around 7:00 p.m. Saturday night.
Zimmerman, a 29-year-old volunteer neighborhood watchman, is charged with second-degree murder in the death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin, whom the defendant shot during a scuffle in a nearby gated community on Feb 26, 2012. The jury was also told it could convict Zimmerman on the lesser charge of manslaughter, or acquit him as not guilty of any crime. Zimmerman argued he acted in self defense.
The jury was told in its instructions that a Zimmerman merited a manslaughter charge if he killed Martin intentionally.
The jurors deliberated for 12.5 hours--including a one-hour lunch during which they were allowed to discuss the case--before alerting the court they had a question. "May we please have clarification on the instructions regarding manslaughter?" the question read. The sequestered, anonymous jurors only made one other request during their deliberations--for an itemized list of all the evidence presented during the trial on Friday.
For the jury to convict Zimmerman of second-degree murder, the prosecution would have to prove that Zimmerman had “a depraved mind without regard for human life” when he shot Martin. A lesser manslaughter conviction could be handed down if the jury believes Zimmerman had no lawful reason to kill Martin. Zimmerman is legally justified in killing Martin if the jury finds he had a “reasonable” belief that his own life was in jeopardy or that he could suffer bodily harm from Martin.
In closing arguments Friday, Assistant District Attorney John Guy argued that it was the unarmed Martin who tried to defend himself. “Ask yourself, ‘Who lost the fight?’” Guy said. “That child had every right to be afraid of a strange man following him, first in his car and then on foot. And did that child not have the right to defend himself from that strange man?”
Zimmerman’s attorney Mark O’Mara argued over three hours in his closing remarks that Martin was not “unarmed.” He dragged out a chunk of concrete and laid it in front of the jury to make the point that Martin used the pavement as a “weapon” against his client when he allegedly slammed his head against it in their scuffle.
Before beginning their deliberations, jurors received the following instructions pertaining to manslaughter:
MANSLAUGHTER To prove the crime of Manslaughter, the State must prove the following two elements beyond a reasonable doubt: 1. Trayvon Martin is dead. 2. George Zimmerman intentionally committed an act or acts that caused the death of Trayvon Martin.
George Zimmerman cannot be guilty of manslaughter by committing a merely negligent act or if the killing was either justifiable or excusable homicide: Each of us has a duty to act reasonably toward others. If there is a violation of that duty, without any conscious intention to harm, that violation is negligence. The killing of a human being is justifiable homicide and lawful if necessarily done while resisting an attempt to murder or commit a felony upon George Zimmerman, or to commit a felony in any dwelling house in which George Zimmerman was at the time of the killing.
The killing of a human being is excusable, and therefore lawful, under any one of the following three circumstances: 1. When the killing is committed by accident and misfortune in doing any lawful act by lawful means with usual ordinary caution and without any unlawful intent, or 2. When the killing occurs by accident and misfortune in the heat of passion, upon any sudden and sufficient provocation, or 3. When the killing is committed by accident and misfortune resulting from a sudden combat, if a dangerous weapon is not used and the killing is not done in a cruel or unusual manner.
In order to convict of manslaughter by act, it is not necessary for the State to prove that George Zimmerman had an intent to cause death, only an intent to commit an act that was not merely negligent, justified, or excusable and which caused death.
If you find George Zimmerman committed Manslaughter, and you also find beyond a reasonable doubt that during the commission of the Manslaughter, George Zimmerman carried, displayed, used, threatened to use, or attempted to use a firearm, you should check the appropriate box on the verdict form which I will discuss with you later in these instructions.
..
Posted by raybond on :
Not Guilty , very interesting chain of events may follow
Posted by glassman on :
interesting, yeah, wonder how long it will take to get instersting?
Posted by glassman on :
what i find really fascinating ishow many people will now say that the jury verdict proves that the case had no merits and should not have been brought... those instructions that you posted ray? that's how i understand manslaughter to work too...
now we will see even more people demanding more gun control laws ( which i don't like)
May 15, 2012 2:42 PM
Fla. woman Marissa Alexander gets 20 years for "warning shot": Did she stand her ground? By Julia Dahl
Marissa Alexander
(CBS) - Last Friday, Jacksonville mother Marissa Alexander was sentenced by a Florida judge to 20 years in prison for firing what she says was a "warning shot" into the wall after a physical altercation with her husband, Rico Gray.
20 years and no one even got shot?
Posted by raybond on :
I really don't see anything good coming out of this decision.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by raybond: I really don't see anything good coming out of this decision.
OK, intersting stuff? you bet!
Zimmermans dad was Judge in Orange Co Fla.
Geroge got off before on felony assault ofpolice officer! That is his B-day and his middle name...
Location : Orange County Register of Actions Case No. 2005-CF-009525-A-O STATE OF FLORIDA - VS - ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE MICHAEL § § § § § § § §
Case Type: Criminal Felony Date Filed: 07/18/2005 Location: Div 10 Judicial Officer: OKane, Julie H Inmate Booking Number: 05200584 Uniform Case Number: 482005CF009525000AOX Party Information Lead Attorneys Defendant ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE MICHAEL DOB: 10/05/1983 ZAHRA SHANAZ UMANSKY, Esquire Retained 407-228-3838(W)
Plaintiff STATE OF FLORIDA Charge Information Charges: ZIMMERMAN, GEORGE MICHAEL Statute Level Date 1. CR-RESISTING OFFICER WITH VIOLENCE 843.01 Third Degree - Felony 07/16/2005 2. BATTERY ON LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER 784.07(2)(B) Third Degree - Felony 07/16/2005 Events & Orders of the Court OTHER EVENTS AND HEARINGS 08/30/2005 Receipt of Original Papers RECEIPT OF ORIGINAL PAPERS FILED TO 05-MM-10436 08/29/2005 Request for Administrative Transfer REQUEST FOR ADMINISTRATIVE TRANSFER TO COUNTY COURT 08/05/2005 Notice of Appearance NOTICE OF APPEARANCE FILED ZAHRA S. UMANSKY 08/05/2005 Waiver of Arraignment WAIVER OF ARRAIGNMENT 08/05/2005 Written Plea of Not Guilty WRITTEN PLEA OF NOT GUILTY ENTERED 08/05/2005 Notice of Intent to Participate in Discovery NOTICE OF INTENT TO PARTICIPATE IN DISCOVERY 08/05/2005 Waiver of Defendant's Attendance at Pre-Trial WAIVER DEFT'S ATTENDANCE AT PRETRIAL CONF 08/05/2005 Demand for Disclosure of Criminal Records DEMAND FOR DISCLOSURE OF CRIMINAL RECORDS 08/05/2005 Demand for Exculpatory Information DEMAND FOR EXCULPATORY INFORMATION 07/18/2005 Complaint COMPLAINT FILED 07/18/2005 Bond Filed POLAKOFF BOND FILED RET TBN $1000 A061766193 07/18/2005 Arrest Affidavit ARREST AFFIDAVIT FILED - DOA <07/16/2005> Financial Information
quote:Originally posted by buckstalker: Cash...Have you read/listened to this guys book "The Handbook of Human Ownership - A Manual for New Tax Farmers"?
If you have....how can you still believe that the republicans are any better or different than the democrats??
i don't have 35 minutes to sit an listen to a video.
cash refuses to acknowledge that partisanship is the judas goats main tool...
Posted by glassman on :
my research indicates to me (now) that Zimmeran is memebr of the privileged class.
this prolly was not about race fro Zimmerman because Zimmermans matrnal great grandather (maternal twice) is of African descent. In other words, Zimmerman is not white. Zimmemans mother is Peruvian of mixed descent. That is no the issue, th eissue is privilege derived from his fathers position as Judge, and the Feds prolly will not be able to pursue a case no matter how much it hurts them...
the fact that Obama and Holder cannot pursue a case is going to hurt them politically.. (part of the plan?)
political privilege is the problem here. if that video cover that stuff? good.
Zimmerman was very familair with the laws, as i am because of my family realtionships too...
th fact hat he used them to cover up a manslughter sux. the kid had one shot fired into his heart, if it had been 2 (two shots fired at all) then it would have been murder2 and a hate crime. Zimmerman is no dummy.... we been played... and it sure looks to me like the prosecution aided that play... it's that simple.. ye shall reap what ye sow... i have always belived that and have behaved accordingly. Zimmerna will reap what he has sown too.. but it won't be by any action of mine.. don't want nutt'n to do with it anymore..
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
quote:Originally posted by buckstalker: Cash...Have you read/listened to this guys book "The Handbook of Human Ownership - A Manual for New Tax Farmers"?
If you have....how can you still believe that the republicans are any better or different than the democrats??
i don't have 35 minutes to sit an listen to a video.
cash refuses to acknowledge that partisanship is the judas goats main tool...
Whatever glass, I know that the dollar rules king on earth and everything else is its subject, the Republicans, or the Dems.
I just happen to side with the ones who spend the money protecting gun ownership. Abortion is barbaric, and we need peace through strength in the military.
Our international status is quickly eroding under this arrogant President. He flip flops more than Mitt Romney.
Posted by glassman on :
i don't agree with half of what the guy says..but i have time to listen to that much
pay no attention to the man behind the curtian...
i don't have anything to add to this case anymore...
the whole thing stinks, and it just increases th eprssure to make more gun bans(whihc i do not support either)
i made my opinion clear enough here. you are entitled to yours.
don't get mad at me when i tell you that partisanship is the main tool of the judas goats. it is. i figured that out under Bush. it took Waco, and ruby ridge and then 9-11 for me to get it, so i'm not claiming any superior powers of observation or judgemtn. i just know that i am fed up and i will keep voting. i may vote GOP next time, i will prolly vote for anybody besides hillary... sad to say that i might elect another hitler becuase of that, but it's just plain truth...
as to Obama? i critisize him where i feel he is worng.. he is correct to use drones overseas, drones here are fine UNTIL they are armed.. i don't care about them, becuase an aiprlane can already do everything they do... just like th estrikes overseas.. whihc i support. it saves our peoples lives- drones make US much more powerful, don't pretend Obama is weak, he isn't- you just don't like him for your own reasons.. get over it.
Texas? new abortion law bans it at 20 weeks- i proposed a complete ban at 26 wks or so right here (posted that a dozen or more times)... did i (my posts) personally make a difference? maybe, maybe reasonable people got my idea when i posted it here YEARS ago... it is reasonable, but it makes folks mad... and it will be a poltical problem.. i chose 26 weeks because that is when a fetus is able to make it on it's own...
nobody is for abortion. i don't 'like" them. but stem cells are not people...
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Originally Posted By glassman:
Texas? new abortion law bans it at 20 weeks- i proposed a complete ban at 26 wks or so right here (posted that a dozen or more times)... did i (my posts) personally make a difference? maybe, maybe reasonable people got my idea when i posted it here YEARS ago... it is reasonable, but it makes folks mad... and it will be a poltical problem.. i chose 26 weeks because that is when a fetus is able to make it on it's own...
nobody is for abortion. i don't 'like" them. but stem cells are not people...
-------------------------------------------------
I am still concerned with what happens after the baby is born if the parents don't really want the kid or can't afford the kid, etc. etc.
It's nice to think that every kid will be adopted no matter what the circumstances, but in reality that's not the case.
When and if to have an abortion,I'm not sure who in reality should make this choice other than the mother and father, if present.
As usual the lawyers and judges make the real decisions in the end, with a lot of fighting between the churches and others.
Wonder if they would adopt all the kids that no one else would adopt? Of course we know the answer to that.
-
Posted by glassman on :
20 weeks is five months. if we could get a ratioanl decision on this and move on to other problems? i think that would be good thing.
the irony of this is that somehow some people have made it legal to shoot kids on the street. but hey want to make sure they have plenty of kids to shoot at huh?
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
How about this problem in Huntington Beach. You think some of these guys might be had with all the pictures?
I think that I may have said it on this board but I could be mistaken. I have thought ever since the charges were brought against Zimmerman that the prosecution was deliberately over charging him for the sole purpose that they could not convict him on it. They brought charges to appease the Martin sympathizers and they over did it to appease the Zimmerman sympathizers by way of acquittal.
For the most part it worked if that was in fact the plan all along. The people at either edge were going to be pissed regardless, but they effectively avoided polarizing the vast majority of the middle....by way of giving the appearance that the justice system has played out as intended.
Actually I was in the dollar store picking up some cleaning supplies yesterday and ran into the sheriff. He asked me if I had paid the fines in full yet and I told him that I had not. I still have a little over 300 bucks to pay before the court date. He said not to worry about it and he would take care of with the police chief...
That kind of made me angry for a couple of reasons. I plan on paying it off Thursday. It may sound silly or petty but I don't want to "owe" anyone over something that I view to be stupid....and if any of them (sheriff, police chief, mayor, or prosecutor) wanted to "handle it"....they could do so without waiting until they run into me at a store and offer hushed tones, nods, and winks. I know that comes off as crazy but it just doesn't sit well with me.
Plus I kinda wonder where all the money that I already have paid ends up if it is "handled." I think that I would rather pay it all and there be a record of it than to have what I have already paid end up in somebodies wallet because its been dropped....
I realize that it sounds like cutting off my own nose just to spite my face but the whole ordeal has just sat way wrong with me.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Sounds like your between a rock and a hard place, sucking situation.
It's like their doing you a favor while screwing you in the first place.
It must be hard to deal with this type of situation in a small town.
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