I am learning trading. I am currently buying at the low and selling high based on previous cycles/patterns.
Question: Is there certain signs such as certain Indexes that is they are trending a certain way, it is better not to even bother trying to do the buy low/sell high (not shorting) because of the odds being worse. Or any other general signs that the market will be bearish generally for the day or next couple days? And when do you know it is generally over - certain indexes??
posted
Best advice: Since you are asking all these questions and it's obvious you have no idea what you are doing. Sell your shares, get into cash and read a book. Best book for a beginner I can recommend for Swingtrading as well as a couple of other favorites of mine:
A Beginner's Guide to Short Term Trading by Toni Turner www.toniturner.com
Thanks for your reply. You are correct that I am a beginner and still learning. I have been playing with $2-8 stocks for about 2 weeks now. I am lucky enough that I have not lost any money yet, at worst, I have sold at $.01 over purchase.
I do have all 3 Toni Turner books and a couple candlestick books and am reading them during slow daytime periods - so I am learning, and being very conservative in my actions as I learn.
My question was motivated because for the past 3 days or so I have noticed those stocks do not have the low-high runs that they have been doing for last couple weeks.. It seems lately that they do not have large swings, but with large volume still seems to just fade downward - even when it seems they should move. I then see YAHOO News about that the Stock market is recently down so that helps me understand the slugishness, but I was wondering from experts like yourself, are there any indicators like certain indexes that are a general warning that things are going to be sluggish and declining and it is probably not worth the time to turn the computer on? Anything that can be checked before 9:30am or early in the day?
I will continue studying over the weekend. I have cashed out and plan on not doing anything until the market picks up.I do have 3 more Daytrading books from the library ordered for next week so will work on those when they come in. I have not come across anything in any of the books that address my question yet. Thanks for your time and response.
I will see if the Nison and Darvas book is available and order them or buy them this week.
I am trying to ask questions that are not covered in the books.. ones that reflect experience as opposed to book training. If anyone wants to answer me in Private to any question, I would be just as happy to keep thier answers private.
I have another question not answered by books: If I am looking at a stock that is basing or that is coming off of a downtrend and I want to use a technical indicator(s) to give me a good idea that the stock is uptrending or starting to uptrend, what 3-4 technical indicators should I learn very well or add to intraday charts that will give me the best idea of a future trend or trend change? What are the ones everyone has found successful? I look at the Medved Quotetracker program and notice that there are 50-60 available! Different books including Toni's seem to emphasize 3-4, but I believe that real life experience is important and some of you reading this have made some great money with certain technical indicators and predicting trends! I am just looking for some names of favorites (and maybe what you would look for in it) that I should study hard to learn well.
Thank you for your time responding!
- Bill
(PS - no trading today! Spending all day reading and watching charts and trying to pick out candlesticks as I watch the market)
Posts: 18 | From: Orlando, Fl | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
Hey Mach, I've seen you post repeatedly with your book recomendations, but never had time to check into any of them. Just borrowed two books from a guy at work today and was getting ready to start reading them soon. Then I decided, "If I'm going to read a book, I should proabbly get one that's going to be good." Turns out, one of the ones my friend gave me was the one by Toni Turner, so I guess I'll get started reading tomorrow.
Thanks for always being generous with your advice. I'll let you know what I think of the book when I'm done.
Posts: 5508 | From: Southeastern PA | Registered: Jan 2006
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quote:Originally posted by PCola77: Hey Mach, I've seen you post repeatedly with your book recomendations, but never had time to check into any of them. Just borrowed two books from a guy at work today and was getting ready to start reading them soon. Then I decided, "If I'm going to read a book, I should proabbly get one that's going to be good." Turns out, one of the ones my friend gave me was the one by Toni Turner, so I guess I'll get started reading tomorrow.
Thanks for always being generous with your advice. I'll let you know what I think of the book when I'm done.
Which one(s)? I only like her Day trading one and her swing/position trading one....
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by mrcyberbill: (Thanks T E X.)
Hello!
I am trying to ask questions that are not covered in the books.. ones that reflect experience as opposed to book training. If anyone wants to answer me in Private to any question, I would be just as happy to keep thier answers private.
I have another question not answered by books: If I am looking at a stock that is basing or that is coming off of a downtrend and I want to use a technical indicator(s) to give me a good idea that the stock is uptrending or starting to uptrend, what 3-4 technical indicators should I learn very well or add to intraday charts that will give me the best idea of a future trend or trend change? What are the ones everyone has found successful? I look at the Medved Quotetracker program and notice that there are 50-60 available! Different books including Toni's seem to emphasize 3-4, but I believe that real life experience is important and some of you reading this have made some great money with certain technical indicators and predicting trends! I am just looking for some names of favorites (and maybe what you would look for in it) that I should study hard to learn well.
Thank you for your time responding!
- Bill
(PS - no trading today! Spending all day reading and watching charts and trying to pick out candlesticks as I watch the market)
I stick to the philosopy of KISS (Keep it Simple Silly) and use simple indicators that are easy to learn and understand... the ones I use are MA's , RSI (especially RSI 50)and Volume... sometimes i use MACD as well but not lately.. and candlesticks on occassion...
I also enter positions in which the stocks' sector/industry has been trending up for the last 3 months... Bigcharts.com has a cool list of top 10 best (if you want to go long) and worst (if you want to short) index in their "industries" section of their homepage..
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
A Beginner's Guide to Short Term Trading by Toni Turner
He gave me a second one, I forget what it's called. I'll probably start to read more books now that work is slowing down and I have more than 4 seconds of free time a day.
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli:
quote:Originally posted by PCola77: Hey Mach, I've seen you post repeatedly with your book recomendations, but never had time to check into any of them. Just borrowed two books from a guy at work today and was getting ready to start reading them soon. Then I decided, "If I'm going to read a book, I should proabbly get one that's going to be good." Turns out, one of the ones my friend gave me was the one by Toni Turner, so I guess I'll get started reading tomorrow.
Thanks for always being generous with your advice. I'll let you know what I think of the book when I'm done.
Which one(s)? I only like her Day trading one and her swing/position trading one....
Posts: 5508 | From: Southeastern PA | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
By the way, Mach or anyone else. Can you recommend a more intermediate book for charting for me to check out once I'm finished with Toni Turner's book? (Does such a book exist, or are there really just charting basics and then you determine which ones work best for you?)
Posts: 5508 | From: Southeastern PA | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
In "A beginners's guide to short term trading" Toni Turner spoke very highly of Steve Nisons "Japanese Candlestick Charting Techniques" and "Beyond Candlesticks: More Japanese Charting Techniques Revealed"...Have any of you guys checked either on of these out???If so, what was your take on them???TIA
Posts: 2383 | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Mach, In these books you have recommended do they detail the techniques you mentioned above? Like RSI,Ma's and MACD. Im completly new and dont even know what those are. However, Im going to pick up a few of the books you recommended this weekend.
Posts: 10 | From: California | Registered: Jun 2007
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-------------------- All post are my opinion. Do your own DD. Who's clicking your buy/sell button!? Posts: 7800 | From: Virginia | Registered: May 2006
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quote:Originally posted by PCola77: By the way, Mach or anyone else. Can you recommend a more intermediate book for charting for me to check out once I'm finished with Toni Turner's book? (Does such a book exist, or are there really just charting basics and then you determine which ones work best for you?)
I never bothered to look for a so called "intermediate" book because for me a simple approach works best then being bogged down with so many techniques that you get mixed signals... but I determine what works best for me... RSI 50 and MA's work best for me...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Happy Valley: In "A beginners's guide to short term trading" Toni Turner spoke very highly of Steve Nisons "Japanese Candlestick Charting Techniques" and "Beyond Candlesticks: More Japanese Charting Techniques Revealed"...Have any of you guys checked either on of these out???If so, what was your take on them???TIA
Yes I'm aware of those books and they are highly recommended by candlestick enthusiasts but they are quite thick books so that is why i always recommend The Candlestick Course by him... not as thick but thick enough and gives you the most needed and used/recognized candlestick formations as opposed to every single candlestick formation that ever existed...
quote:Originally posted by GetPayed: Mach, In these books you have recommended do they detail the techniques you mentioned above? Like RSI,Ma's and MACD. Im completly new and dont even know what those are. However, Im going to pick up a few of the books you recommended this weekend.
Yes they have all the basics of those indicators... and then some like Fibonacci, OBV, Stochastics, Bollinger etc... but RSI, MA's and MACD imo are the easiest to learn... therefor more beneficial...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by GetPayed: Mach, In these books you have recommended do they detail the techniques you mentioned above? Like RSI,Ma's and MACD. Im completly new and dont even know what those are. However, Im going to pick up a few of the books you recommended this weekend.
Yes Toni Turner's Short Term Trading book has all the basics of those indicators... and then some like Fibonacci, OBV, Stochastics, Bollinger etc... but RSI, MA's and MACD imo are the easiest to learn... therefor more beneficial...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Okay thanks, I kinda figured that to be the case, but if you had one to recommend I firgured I'd order it now so I had it when I finished this one.
Am looking forward to learning more complex ways to lose money
(kidding, I am actually doing pretty well, but want to learn ways to do it other than dumb luck)
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli:
quote:Originally posted by PCola77: By the way, Mach or anyone else. Can you recommend a more intermediate book for charting for me to check out once I'm finished with Toni Turner's book? (Does such a book exist, or are there really just charting basics and then you determine which ones work best for you?)
I never bothered to look for a so called "intermediate" book because for me a simple approach works best then being bogged down with so many techniques that you get mixed signals... but I determine what works best for me... RSI 50 and MA's work best for me...
Posts: 5508 | From: Southeastern PA | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Thanks Machiavelli, I figured Nisons books were probably a little more in depth than I needed...I will check out the website you listed tomorrow...GLTY
Posts: 2383 | Registered: Apr 2006
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posted
Yeah his books are.. except The Candlestick Course which is a watered down version of his other two books and more easy to understand and grasp candlesticking....
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by PCola77: Okay thanks, I kinda figured that to be the case, but if you had one to recommend I firgured I'd order it now so I had it when I finished this one.
Am looking forward to learning more complex ways to lose money
(kidding, I am actually doing pretty well, but want to learn ways to do it other than dumb luck)
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli:
quote:Originally posted by PCola77: By the way, Mach or anyone else. Can you recommend a more intermediate book for charting for me to check out once I'm finished with Toni Turner's book? (Does such a book exist, or are there really just charting basics and then you determine which ones work best for you?)
I never bothered to look for a so called "intermediate" book because for me a simple approach works best then being bogged down with so many techniques that you get mixed signals... but I determine what works best for me... RSI 50 and MA's work best for me...
Well I like Toni's writing style. Very simple to understand and straight to the point. I tweeked her methods to suit me. For example she recommends putting a stop/loss at .25 below the low of the day when you entered a stock or she also recommends what others do which is 7% of the price you enter. I don't recommend 7% because the MM's know that and thats when they short stocks to knock out all the peeps with those 7% stop/losses. I basically put my stop/loss nowadays just below and in between the 20 and 40 day MA or right at the 40 day MA to give the stock some wiggle room if and only if the MA's are lined up perfectly. I also watch a stock as it approaches RSI 50. Depending on which side of RSI 50 a stock lies on. If below it then I see if it will bounce off the 50 line to go back down (good time to short a big board stock) or if breaks the 50 line then it might be a good time to go long. Reason being for these two things is in the first situation the 50 line acts as Resistance and in the 2nd scenario it acts as Support. Opposite is true if the stock is above the 50 line and is going down and approaching the 50 line. If I see it bounce off of it then I don't sell my position if Im in the stock or I might buy it if it bounces off and go long. If it crashes through the 50 line and im holding a stock ill sell it because 50 is now Resistance. Anyways these are just examples. What works for me might not work for you. Experiment and see what works for you. But as for RSI 50, I suggest you look at alot of charts and see if you can see what I see when a stock approaches the 50 line. Also btw RSI 80 i consider Resistance and RSI 20 as support if stocks are approaching them. But i rely more on RSI 50 since stocks approach that line more then the other two.
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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All good info! I have all of Toni's books, just got "short-term trading in the new stock market" -- I think that is my favorite, seems quite up to date.
Also, I have noticed that it is common that at 3:59 PM, stocks drop quite a bit, and someone (I am guessing the MM), is buying a bunch of stocks just a few seconds before the market closes. Just curious if you did a very low BUY order, would your order get fulfilled down in the same area his is?
Thanks TEX for the info .. I have studied and studied the indicators, the only one I have trouble figuring out is CMF. I guess it shows money flow into a stock, so do you just look for "more Positive then Negative = bullish" .. or "more Positive = possible trend" or more people "showing interest" when Positive?
All good info! I have all of Toni's books, just got "short-term trading in the new stock market" -- I think that is my favorite, seems quite up to date.
Up to date but too much information and not as easy to digest as her other two books...
quote:Also, I have noticed that it is common that at 3:59 PM, stocks drop quite a bit, and someone (I am guessing the MM), is buying a bunch of stocks just a few seconds before the market closes. Just curious if you did a very low BUY order, would your order get fulfilled down in the same area his is?
Do you mean the prices go up when they buy just before the closing bell? Because usually it is to cover their short sales....
quote:Thanks TEX for the info .. I have studied and studied the indicators, the only one I have trouble figuring out is CMF. I guess it shows money flow into a stock, so do you just look for "more Positive then Negative = bullish" .. or "more Positive = possible trend" or more people "showing interest" when Positive?
Thanks, Bill
That is why i stick to simple indicators that do the same job... why learn a complicated indicator when a simple Indicator like the RSI does the same? ... I equate this to card counting in Blackjack... there are simple counting systems like Knock-out system and Hi-Lo system... and then there are complicated systems like the Omega III i think it's called... both the simple count systems and the complicated count systems do the same thing with the same result... but why would you want to do the complicated one that takes more work to do to win the same amount of money... the simple ones you only need 1 number in ur head at all times .. while the complicated ones you sometimes need that 1 number plus a side count of aces or whatever cards... bogs your mind... Hope you get what I mean...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Thanks for the reply. I will go over the charts again tonight and tomorrow with all the indicators that were mentioned above - and see if I can figure out which ones I can "read" easiest and what seems to work for me.
As far as the price, I am sorry. I had MEDVED QuoteTracker open and even though it stopped at 4:pm, it traced something at the last moment. I looked up with Scottrade Totalview and it did not show it. So my question was based on a quirk w/quotetracker. - Sorry.
What I found nice about the Toni book was a 1: 2: 3: listing of how to read the Technical Indicators and what to look for if you wanted Bulls or Bears - also what I liked was the sections that she walked you thru trades step by step, and wrote what she was thinking, why she set prices in certain places, what indicators she looks as while making a decision, etc.
I think it would be wonderful to sit over an experienced traders shoulder and let him verbalize what is going thru his mind. Even if there is no trade at all, to hear him say "This stock looks promising because ... and see how it is bouncing off the 50 MA.. and it is oversold due to this indicator.. and you see the volume starting to... ".. Just to see/hear the thought patterns of an experienced trader would be a positive experience - someone could learn so much that way.
well, Mach offers solid opinion re simplicity...when I started, I basically used bollies, RSI and MACD... with pennies, I found the simple approach quite useful on intra-day charts for timing an exit...
I like CMF, though, cuz even though "more complex" i find it quite efficient *because* I want agreement among indicators, and CMF is best used in concert with other indicators... In other words, I *want* redundancy...
gets back to what I mentioned earlier...and prolly Mach did, too--find what works for you. Takes awhile. Different people "visualize" patterns differently. So when CMF is "going up" even though pps is falling, it may be confusing to one person but make perfect sense to another.
Anyway, as I say, takes time and involves "back-testing." You start reading charts the way someone else might read paperbacks...ie, "just for fun." A really, really good thing to do is keep a journal...
posted
I feel you need to have your own setups that work for you also. I use a few different setups ~1st which way is the money going - vol acc., CMF, MFI. 2nd would be RSI MACD and MOMO. personally i like to use stock charts and bigcharts typically from 6 months out to 5 days (even to the minute on an exit on my platform and even years for the entry) looking for patterns for entry/exit points. The dd of what is going on or a certain PR can throw everything out of whack so just playing by the charts could sink your ship if you're not watching. Very good info on this thread. http://www.candlesticker.com/
-------------------- All post are my opinion. Do your own DD. Who's clicking your buy/sell button!? Posts: 7800 | From: Virginia | Registered: May 2006
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Thanks for the information from everyone! I appreciate it. The only "easier" trading I have found for a beginner is to buy a stock at the late afternoon or closing "low" and sell it the next morning when it bounces in the first 1/2 hour. Not too glorious, but as long as the stock is not in decline or bearish in the preceding days - and no bad news has come out, the odds of success are better for someone just learning.
As for really learning, the trading platform I use has a VIRTUAL mode - they give you $100,000 to start and will even replentish it if you go thru it. So my trading and learning for a while will be on this system. I figure it is better then learning the hard way!
Again, thanks and I appreciate the good information from everyone!
posted
Absolutely fantastic plan. Very few people actually do it that way, though everyone should. You'll be wiser and start out with more money if you go about it this way, I'll almost guarantee it.
quote:Originally posted by mrcyberbill: As for really learning, the trading platform I use has a VIRTUAL mode - they give you $100,000 to start and will even replentish it if you go thru it. So my trading and learning for a while will be on this system. I figure it is better then learning the hard way!
Posts: 5508 | From: Southeastern PA | Registered: Jan 2006
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