posted
Who needs them: they have too much power, conflict of interest, and are a huge taxation on the system. Okay so the bid or ask might go whack once in awhile, we have computers to prevent people from making stupid mistakes and if we do buy or sell at a crazy price, it will be a conscious decision.
Posts: 1468 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
If you think Electronic trading is the answer?
You need to think a minute about a little word called " Hackers " and malfunctioning program trading circumstances.
Posts: 10729 | From: oregon | Registered: Feb 2005
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I think computers could entirely control the market without allowing a crazy buy/sell price.
My idea goes something like this:
All publicly traded companies unload their shares directly to the SEC and the SEC handles the distribution of the shares once they have been purchased by a trader. The SEC publicizes the EXACT share structure of EVERY publicly traded company.
Computers control the share price by moving the bid/ask based on buys/sells. The bid/ask moves in increments of 10,000th a penny, 1,000th a penny, 100th a penny, 10th of a penny, a penny, a dime, or a dollar, etc, based on the share price. The bid ask would be raised one increment on a buy and fall one increment on a sell.
No manipulation and the market would only be controlled by the forces of supply and demand.
Of course this will never happen. It would put too many crooks out of work and the crooks have a strangle hold on the system.
-------------------- All of my posts are based on my opinion. My opinions are based on the info available to me at any given point in time. Do your own DD and see if you concur. Posts: 820 | From: Phoenix | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Dustoff101: If you think Electronic trading is the answer?
You need to think a minute about a little word called " Hackers " and malfunctioning program trading circumstances.
Come on Dust, Computers control everything in this world - mass transit, banking, military, and even your individual identity.
To suggest that computers are fine for everything EXCEPT the stock market doesn't make much sense.
-------------------- All of my posts are based on my opinion. My opinions are based on the info available to me at any given point in time. Do your own DD and see if you concur. Posts: 820 | From: Phoenix | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Some of you should understand that whatever a computer does can be undone, and whatever it does stays virtual for some time; by the time it is made not virtual, the damage could have already been undone.
Posts: 1468 | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
jdog006, $225,000,000 fat finger that stuck in Japan.....I rest my case, caused a sell off all over the Orient...
Posts: 10729 | From: oregon | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Japanese market is all computers. No public outcry, just the hum of the electrons.
Posts: 352 | From: Marietta, GA | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by BuyTex: doh, sorry fellas--computers acting alone won't work...But I *do* wish they'd try it...
What would be the road block to it Tex?
Is it too fair of a system for the powers that be?
-------------------- All of my posts are based on my opinion. My opinions are based on the info available to me at any given point in time. Do your own DD and see if you concur. Posts: 820 | From: Phoenix | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Hell, the Pentagon and Major Banks are hacked everyday costing million's of dollars daily!
Posts: 10729 | From: oregon | Registered: Feb 2005
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This is a silly.. maybe even a stupid idea... Instead of the so-called "evil manipulating MM's" ther would be hackers... The market would be chaos and would soon crash. There would no longer be any sort of smooth fluid motion to the market it would be up huge one day worth nothing the next. MM's are there for a reason. Besides if there were no MM's who could you possibly blame your idiotic trading mistakes on... certainly not yourself.
(last bit was not identifying anyone person.. twas a generality)
-------------------- Spend Word For Word With Me And I Shall Make Your Wit Bankrupt. Posts: 1326 | From: Here | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Dustoff101: jdog006, $225,000,000 fat finger that stuck in Japan.....I rest my case, caused a sell off all over the Orient...
In my ideal scenario, the bid/ask is automatically moved in increments based on demand and the trader is automatically given the best bid/ask price. There is no way that a fat finger could occur or screw up the data in the charts
-------------------- All of my posts are based on my opinion. My opinions are based on the info available to me at any given point in time. Do your own DD and see if you concur. Posts: 820 | From: Phoenix | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
jdog you don't need a contrived program. The masses can define their own markets, and create a sort of randomness to the system, which is needed. Not only that, the masses will help create an ideal market in which companies are accountable, and will be defined by their return on investment.
Posts: 1468 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by jdog006: I'd take it even a step further Explorer.
I think computers could entirely control the market without allowing a crazy buy/sell price.
My idea goes something like this:
All publicly traded companies unload their shares directly to the SEC and the SEC handles the distribution of the shares once they have been purchased by a trader. The SEC publicizes the EXACT share structure of EVERY publicly traded company.
Computers control the share price by moving the bid/ask based on buys/sells. The bid/ask moves in increments of 10,000th a penny, 1,000th a penny, 100th a penny, 10th of a penny, a penny, a dime, or a dollar, etc, based on the share price. The bid ask would be raised one increment on a buy and fall one increment on a sell.
No manipulation and the market would only be controlled by the forces of supply and demand.
Of course this will never happen. It would put too many crooks out of work and the crooks have a strangle hold on the system.
i agree with you
Posts: 3086 | From: miami | Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:Originally posted by BuyTex: doh, sorry fellas--computers acting alone won't work...But I *do* wish they'd try it...
What would be the road block to it Tex?
Is it too fair of a system for the powers that be?
reverse engineer the program...payoff like a predictable slot machine, cha-ching...
The answer is in place...all that needs to happen is the reg agencies enforce their own rules...
If it were simpy a matter of matching orders, that would be fairly simple...but Market Makers are called that precisely because they "make" a market...if it were simply matching orders, many. many issues would never trade...somebody has to dangle the carrot...
quote:Originally posted by jdog006: I'd take it even a step further Explorer.
I think computers could entirely control the market without allowing a crazy buy/sell price.
My idea goes something like this:
All publicly traded companies unload their shares directly to the SEC and the SEC handles the distribution of the shares once they have been purchased by a trader. The SEC publicizes the EXACT share structure of EVERY publicly traded company.
Computers control the share price by moving the bid/ask based on buys/sells. The bid/ask moves in increments of 10,000th a penny, 1,000th a penny, 100th a penny, 10th of a penny, a penny, a dime, or a dollar, etc, based on the share price. The bid ask would be raised one increment on a buy and fall one increment on a sell.
No manipulation and the market would only be controlled by the forces of supply and demand.
Of course this will never happen. It would put too many crooks out of work and the crooks have a strangle hold on the system.
Well I can sum this idea up with just one word... That's right... just one. Ready?
COMMIE
-------------------- Spend Word For Word With Me And I Shall Make Your Wit Bankrupt. Posts: 1326 | From: Here | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by explorer186: jdog you don't need a contrived program. The masses can define their own markets, and create a sort of randomness to the system, which is needed. Not only that, the masses will help create an ideal market in which companies are accountable, and will be defined by their return on investment.
I understand what you are saying. But there is one point that one of us is missing here.
If you take the MM's out of the equation, someone must control the bid/ask price. You could really get creative and do away with the bid/ask. My point is that some one or some thing has to control the price movement or the market becomes anarchy. Any one particular stock could be trading at two completely different prices at the same time if shares were only sold investor to investor without a middle man.
-------------------- All of my posts are based on my opinion. My opinions are based on the info available to me at any given point in time. Do your own DD and see if you concur. Posts: 820 | From: Phoenix | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
RiescoDiQui the way we have it now is just stupid and senseless. Here we give a few the power to direct a stock however they want. How do you think they will use their power? They'll use it to milk the stock market out of every cent, that's how. No longer can people invest based on fundamentals and expectations, but on MM games. The market has become arbitrary, senseless, and self-destructive, to the interest of some foreign countries no doubt.
Posts: 1468 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by BuyTex: lol, RDQ--that's your answer for *everything* ...
Yes and I'm right too. making a system where the government is the holder of all the unbought company stock in all publicly traded companies is INFACT a communist's wetdream.
-------------------- Spend Word For Word With Me And I Shall Make Your Wit Bankrupt. Posts: 1326 | From: Here | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by BuyTex: reverse engineer the program...payoff like a predictable slot machine, cha-ching...
I don't believe so. Even if the market was computer controlled, it's not like a computer would move stock price based on some random program. It would be based purely on buys and sells. The program would never know what the demand would be in the future. Investors would buy a stock and hope that a lot more people buy it too, so that their investment will grow. The same as they do now, except there would be no manipulation of the price movement.
-------------------- All of my posts are based on my opinion. My opinions are based on the info available to me at any given point in time. Do your own DD and see if you concur. Posts: 820 | From: Phoenix | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by explorer186: RiescoDiQui the way we have it now is just stupid and senseless. Here we give a few the power to direct a stock however they want. How do you think they will use their power? They'll use it to milk the stock market out of every cent, that's how. No longer can people invest based on fundamentals and expectations, but on MM games. The market has become arbitrary, senseless, and self-destructive, to the interest of some foreign countries no doubt.
You are wrong.. I'm trying to convey this to you as politely as possible... The people whining about MM manipulation are not the smartest people in the world.. these are people you should avoid. MM manipulation is a myth in so much that yes there have been instances of manipulation... but it was not widespread... The MM manipulation theory was an excuse for a bad trade... nothing more... unfortunately it snowballed into a common theme among those who are incapable of admitting mistakes...
-------------------- Spend Word For Word With Me And I Shall Make Your Wit Bankrupt. Posts: 1326 | From: Here | Registered: Oct 2005
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posted
Heck computers are used to trade stocks today anyway. The hacker argument can be applied to today's system as well.
Posts: 1468 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by BuyTex: lol, RDQ--that's your answer for *everything* ...
Yes and I'm right too. making a system where the government is the holder of all the unbought company stock in all publicly traded companies is INFACT a communist's wetdream.
They are "PUBLICLY" traded companies. The role of the goverment is to control certain things within the public domain for the good of the entire population. They control the airlines. They control the banks. Why would anyone have a problem with them controlling the market when it weould only level the playing firld for your own benefit.
-------------------- All of my posts are based on my opinion. My opinions are based on the info available to me at any given point in time. Do your own DD and see if you concur. Posts: 820 | From: Phoenix | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by BuyTex: lol, RDQ--that's your answer for *everything* ...
Yes and I'm right too. making a system where the government is the holder of all the unbought company stock in all publicly traded companies is INFACT a communist's wetdream.
there's sumpin to that, for sure...
IF a computerized system were enabled, the owners would still need to be a for-profit concern...
And of course, MMs do have program and software...
but when "the going gets weird," the weird must be able to turn pro--to paraphrase Hunter--which means a human walks up and takes over...
At any rate, as stated, what should happen is merely enforce the rules...
posted
Hackers and Commies taking over with computers gone wild!!! Sounds like volitility to me ,,,I'm in!
Posts: 10729 | From: oregon | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by RiescoDiQui: You are wrong.. I'm trying to convey this to you as politely as possible... The people whining about MM manipulation are not the smartest people in the world.. these are people you should avoid. MM manipulation is a myth in so much that yes there have been instances of manipulation... but it was not widespread... The MM manipulation theory was an excuse for a bad trade... nothing more... unfortunately it snowballed into a common theme among those who are incapable of admitting mistakes...
Do you work for a brokerage or something. I think you are ignoring the fact that the MM's need to make a profit. That is a HUGE conflict of interest. How can they be trusted to create an orderly market when they are in it for profit?
-------------------- All of my posts are based on my opinion. My opinions are based on the info available to me at any given point in time. Do your own DD and see if you concur. Posts: 820 | From: Phoenix | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by BuyTex: lol, RDQ--that's your answer for *everything* ...
Yes and I'm right too. making a system where the government is the holder of all the unbought company stock in all publicly traded companies is INFACT a communist's wetdream.
They are "PUBLICLY" traded companies. The role of the goverment is to control certain things within the public domain for the good of the entire population. They control the airlines. They control the banks. Why would anyone have a problem with them controlling the market when it weould only level the playing firld for your own benefit.
You just said the SEC would take over the job of the MM's I can tell you have no idea what you are talking about because you don't seem to understand that the MM's are the ones who sell and buy stock... they are therefore the holders of this stock... Having government take over this position would then mean they held the majority of stock in all publicly traded companies... this is a communist's wetdream.. it means total governmental control over every business in america... Just so you know... this IS a bad thing.
-------------------- Spend Word For Word With Me And I Shall Make Your Wit Bankrupt. Posts: 1326 | From: Here | Registered: Oct 2005
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quote:Originally posted by BuyTex: IF a computerized system were enabled, the owners would still need to be a for-profit concern...
Good point Tex.
The SEC fee that is applied to every trade certainly adds up to quite a large sum, I'm sure.
-------------------- All of my posts are based on my opinion. My opinions are based on the info available to me at any given point in time. Do your own DD and see if you concur. Posts: 820 | From: Phoenix | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by RiescoDiQui: You just said the SEC would take over the job of the MM's I can tell you have no idea what you are talking about because you don't seem to understand that the MM's are the ones who sell and buy stock... they are therefore the holders of this stock... Having government take over this position would then mean they held the majority of stock in all publicly traded companies... this is a communist's wetdream.. it means total governmental control over every business in america... Just so you know... this IS a bad thing.
The government wouldn't necessarily be allowed to "OWN" anything. They would just oversee the disbursement of the shares.
-------------------- All of my posts are based on my opinion. My opinions are based on the info available to me at any given point in time. Do your own DD and see if you concur. Posts: 820 | From: Phoenix | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Manipulation is rampant, and unavoidable with humans at the helm. They can sell you as much as you are willing to buy, then take the price down where they can buy back for a profit. That's all they do: they try to take your money. They are a taxation on the system, and costing the stock markets maybe billions a day. If you're not a commie, you definitely wouldn't like MM's.
Posts: 1468 | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by BuyTex: reverse engineer the program...payoff like a predictable slot machine, cha-ching...
I don't believe so. Even if the market was computer controlled, it's not like a computer would move stock price based on some random program. It would be based purely on buys and sells. The program would never know what the demand would be in the future. Investors would buy a stock and hope that a lot more people buy it too, so that their investment will grow. The same as they do now, except there would be no manipulation of the price movement.
"The program would never know what the demand would be in the future."
right, j, but human traders *do* have a pretty sharp idea.
again, as far as processing orders? fine...But actually making a market? no way--a program would get killed if left to itself... some stuff is automated now, but when an MM is needed, humans take over.
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