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» Allstocks.com's Bulletin Board » Micro Penny Stocks, Penny Stocks $0.10 & Under » CMKX IV New Thread....GOT IT - HOLDIN' IT (Page 33)

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Author Topic: CMKX IV New Thread....GOT IT - HOLDIN' IT
Brad
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quote:
Originally posted by Wallace#1:
Debi,

I think you are mistaken. Yes, the 10 shares do match certificates, but would also be the total issued and outstanding in my example. The 5 shares are imaginary, do not match certificates and are not issued and outstanding shares. Therefore, they do not exist. When it comes to getting anything like a dividend, split shares, spin off, etc., anyone who bought those shares would not be entitled. The problem is the TA and the Company would have no record and when/if they got an accounting from the DTC, their issued and outstanding would show 10 shs (as factual) and 5 shs that actually do not exist (they would be the naked shorted shs).
Who do you think will have to account for those 5 shs? Even if the company has enough shs authorized, the TA could not issue them and thereby pay dividends, etc. The company would not do so because they are both illegal and because it would negatively affect their balance sheet and earnings. Neither the DTC, the broker nor the SEC could force anything to be done re the 5 imaginary or bogus shares. That would end up in the courts if it got that far. However, every one of us OK'd an agreement that it would be arbitrated...and guess who is going to be part of the arbitration board.

Will talk to you later.


Wallace, I'm afraid I'm just not following you. Regardless of the number of shares sold, (naked or otherwise) the shares do exist and none of them are "imaginary". If the MM's sold them then they made them real. Even if the MM's fraudulently created and sold them (which is why it's illegal). Each shareholder's shares look the same either being held in their name with actual certificates or being held electronically at your broker in the street name. Every share is entitled to the same dividend payout. Yes, the company will only pay out against the 10 shares in your example but the MM's either have to buy the other 5 shares back or pay the dividend for those 5 or face the legal backlash. IMO it's not in their best interest to ever let that happen.


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The Wanderer
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Thanks for the pictures Bam, those were great. Looks like you had a good time too. It sure helps at least seeing something that I (we) are investing in. I would like to go to a race someday soon too. Thanks again!
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Bam Bam 17
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Pic's taken by TJanvil he went to the race. TJanvil is a PalTalk member.
quote:
Originally posted by The Wanderer:
Thanks for the pictures Bam, those were great. Looks like you had a good time too. It sure helps at least seeing something that I (we) are investing in. I would like to go to a race someday soon too. Thanks again!


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VNGNTN1
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UPSIDE
What you are describing would only be true in a worst case scenario. The MM would have file bankruptcy and discontinue business. Then your broker and thier insurance would come into play. Yes we all signed and "probably" didn't read ALL the fine print. We have no control over how/who they fill and order.Some brokers have sister MM operations. My guess is those that do are much more careful.
IF this came about it would affect the whole market beyond imagination.
AMO
VAN

[This message has been edited by VNGNTN1 (edited July 25, 2004).]


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bill1352
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i agree the broker (ameritrade, ect) will not cover any naked shares but they are libal because they send a conformation either electronically or in paper form...this say the trade you made was completed...they got the shares from a mm and listed them in a street account with your name attached. on aug 20th every broker with cmkx in a street account will 1st add up the shares, 2nd list each owner & the number they hold, third send this list to the TA. the TA will then add up all shares held by all brokers. if this number is bigger then the companies o/s they will then trace back to the mm's they came from. each mm is authorized a certain number of shares to trade, any mm over their a/s will have to cover because the brokers will force them too. IMO if this turns out to happen at what level do the mm's cover? in business a company has what they call bluesky or a point of value that could reasonably be met for cmkx this is based on diamonds not yet found, for ucad this is that plus other mining interests. we know mm's will not be able to cover many ucad shares because there aren't many out there. the pr stated that both companies wanted to quickly increase shareholder value. maybe UC knows for a fact that cmkx is naked shorted and gave ucad proof, thus this deal and just to show he is serious added shares of a company mm's can not get. either way the ppl to force all shares naked or not to be covered are the brokers. in the long run it might be good to have naked shares and who knows UC might have proof of the bluesky value of cmkx. bottom line any naked shareholders will have the brokers on their side forcing mm's to cover, that is if its naked shorted which right now is still a guessing games at best.
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RaiderJR
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Wallace i'm not sure who started the info about uranium and Gold, I just got it at Sterlings.

It doesn't matter to me because the maps tell the story. If the numbered claims are CMKX then this company has a lot of assets to explore and a lot more potential value than thought.

1. Our connection to UCAD gives us access to the junia mines Gold production. This just began and provides instant cash

2. The zinc mine is drilled but not fully explored, but could be brought to production for 30 million dollars. That is the asset value of Cameco's zinc operation. The Junia Gold will provide this capital pretty easily. Then you have two sources of cash.

3. The uranium claim I know nothing about, it maybe it is discovered through radiation tests and is unexplored.

4. We have two known diamondferious pipes around the Debeers property, neither has been bulk sampled to our knowledge.

5. Hundreds of other anomalies.


With the assets we now have it is just a matter of time before this hits big. Days, weeks, years, who knows.


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RaiderJR
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quote:
Originally posted by Upside:
What are you guys getting all excited about? This a p/r from March of 2003 and they're talking about three holes that were drilled in 1993. I don't understand what the big deal is.

The big deal is that if this is different than Carolyn then we have a pipe with proven diamond content beyond Carolyn, if the same as Carolyn then earlier testing provided greater diamond content than the two diamonds found in recent testing.

It is good either way.


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RaiderJR
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An interesting thought on the CIM dividend. It is not worth much now, but if the property is sold then the value of the shares will be based on the sell price. Say it is sold for 1 billion. Then 1/40 = .025 per share.

If the dividend is 1/1 then it would make people wealthy if they own a lot of CMKX.


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Justhis1ce
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Having read religiously the cmkx thread for at least two weeks, I've come to the realization that, as knowledgable as the most veteran penny stock traders giving their opinions here are, it must be said that credence is in short supply. Given the fact that anyone posting can be either villainously for or against, anyone holding CMKX (of which I am one and quite happy to be) has to ask him/herself wtf are they going on about? Facts and figures scroll dryly on with self serving statistics regardless of having all the salient facts required for accuracy. Rude dismissals as well as eager acceptance of analyses are rampant Having had to wade through the muck and mire of HO'S as a neophyte penny trader (first time ever), I did manage however, to come away with a positive feel and will hold my shares which are, alongside some of you, a mere pittance. I owe my decision to hold 'long' to both bashers and bolsterers of the stock and would like to thank both. I've not bet anything approaching the farm, but if it hits I will have more than I've ever had in my 57 years. Apart from the venom and the veneration, I've learned a thing or two about traders but mostly about human nature. Many of you on both sides are just whack but it is from you that I've learned the most and it is to you that I am most grateful. Thank you.
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tradingpennys
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Finky.... good post!

_________________________

quote:
Originally posted by finky4x2:
zeninvestor: NITE and NAKED SHORTING
« Thread started on: Today at 12:30pm »



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VNGNTN1
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quote:
Originally posted by VNGNTN1:
D$$M I HATE THAT when someone calls me a crazy fool. I thought I was just dumb. BEARCLAW might have been the next great insight on this stock. Excuse me while I go lick a tree.
VAN

1-BEARCLAW
2-JUSTthis1ce
My Tongue is getting raw !!

[This message has been edited by VNGNTN1 (edited July 25, 2004).]


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will
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Good post!
quote:
Originally posted by Justhis1ce:
Having read religiously the cmkx thread for at least two weeks, I've come to the realization that, as knowledgable as the most veteran penny stock traders giving their opinions here are, it must be said that credence is in short supply. Given the fact that anyone posting can be either villainously for or against, anyone holding CMKX (of which I am one and quite happy to be) has to ask him/herself wtf are they going on about? Facts and figures scroll dryly on with self serving statistics regardless of having all the salient facts required for accuracy. Rude dismissals as well as eager acceptance of analyses are rampant Having had to wade through the muck and mire of HO'S as a neophyte penny trader (first time ever), I did manage however, to come away with a positive feel and will hold my shares which are, alongside some of you, a mere pittance. I owe my decision to hold 'long' to both bashers and bolsterers of the stock and would like to thank both. I've not bet anything approaching the farm, but if it hits I will have more than I've ever had in my 57 years. Apart from the venom and the veneration, I've learned a thing or two about traders but mostly about human nature. Many of you on both sides are just whack but it is from you that I've learned the most and it is to you that I am most grateful. Thank you.


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STAR GAZER
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Vol 90 No. 20 July 9-15 2004 edition of The Northern Miner, a Canadian weekly newspaper that has been in existance since 1915 talked about Shore Gold which has a land position in the Fort a' la Corne diamond area in Saskatchewan, the same area that CMKX has its claims. Shore Gold recovered 338 carats of diamonds consisting of 3,355 stones exceeding a 1.18 mm square mesh screen from an initial treament of 4,913 tons from it Star kimberlite, for a diamond content of 7 carats per 100 tons. An additional 352 diamonds collectively weighing 6 carats were recovered down to 0.85 mm square mesh. This was similar to the neighbouring kimberlites from the joint Kensington Resources, DeBeers and Cameco joint venture and which in addition have higher grade sections grading 7 to 16 carats per 100 tons for a total of 369 million tons having an average grade of 10 carats per 100 tons. The color and clarity of the diamonds is impressive. The Shore Gold site states: The Star Diamond Project contains a bulk tonnage diamond-bearing kimberlite 100% owned by Shore Gold Inc. The geophysical signature and early stage drilling have indicated a kimberlite body in the 500 million tonne range. Shore is currently undertaking a 25,000 tonne bulk sample to better determine carat values.



Location and Access

The Star Diamond project is located approximately 60 kilometres east of Prince Albert, Saskatchewan, a major supply centre for Northern Saskatchewan. A paved highway, gravel road grid system, and an extensive network of forestry roads provide excellent year round access to Shore’s property. The Star Kimberlite is situated in a burned portion of the Fort a la Corne forest, 2 kilometres north of the Saskatchewan River and 21kilometres to the west of a 25 Kilovolt power line.

The project area consists of 15 contiguous mineral dispositions totalling 4,608 hectares and is 100% owned by Shore. The Company also holds 108 claims covering 23,126 hectares for a total land position of 123 claims covering 27,734 hectares.



Fort a la Corne

The Fort a la Corne area of Saskatchewan hosts one of the most extensive kimberlite fields in the world. Over 70 kimberlites exist in the Fort a la Corne province and over 70 percent of these have been shown to contain diamonds. The deposition and erosional history at Fort a la Corne is such that the crater portions of the volcanic eruptive events have been preserved and not scraped away by glaciation, as is the case with most kimberlites. As a result, the crater portion of the kimberlite has significant geographic extent. The Star deposit averages 88 meters in thickness and covers an area over four square kilometres. The kimberlite is covered by 90 meters of overburden, consisting mostly of sand, mudstone and glacial till. Shore was the first company in the Fort a la Corne district to locate a root zone beneath the kimberlite crater when drill hole Star 20 intersected 539 metres of continuous kimberlite. This is the longest intersection of continuous kimberlite from a vertical drill hole ever reported in North America.



Previous Exploration

After acquiring the key claims in late 1995, Shore completed an airborne geophysical survey in the Spring of 1996 and followed up several magnetic anomalies with a ground magnetic survey. In the fall of 1996 three NQ (48mm diameter) core holes were drilled in an anomaly now known as the Star Kimberlite. These holes were followed up and confirmed by the results from two PQ (85mm diameter) core holes drilled in 1997. Encouraged by these results, Shore has subsequently drilled an additional 29 NQ holes, one PQ hole and one large diameter (24") reverse circulation hole.


Bulk Sample Program

The several seasons of drilling indicated a reasonably homogeneous deposit of consistent diamond content that supported a bulk tonnage scenario. Interpretation of the results confirmed to Shore management that the true value of the deposit could only be determined from a large parcel (3000 carats) of diamonds recovered from a bulk sample. The ore value in a diamond mine is determined as a combination of carat values (US$/carat) and grade (carats/tonne). Once the diamond value is known, detailed drilling can be undertaken to evaluate an average diamond grade and thus develop a dollar value per tonne. A study of sampling methods quickly indicated that a large parcel of diamonds could be recovered most efficiently and cost effectively by way of an underground bulk sample.

Shore is currently well advanced in this program, which is designed to process 25,000 tonnes of kimberlite and recover a minimum of 3000 carats for stone valuation purposes. The 14.5 metre diameter exploration shaft is being sunk to the 250 metre level. To prevent the shaft from caving in while sinking through sand, a ring of holes was drilled to allow the freezing of the ground to 120 metres.

A 10 tonne/hour modular Dense Media Separation Plant will process the kimberlite on site. The sinking of the shaft to 250 metres will produce approximately 5000 tonnes of kimberlite. Lateral drifting from the shaft, on more than one level, will produce an additional 20,000 tonnes of kimberlite for a total bulk sample of 25,000 tonnes Processing of kimberlite will occur during the first quarter of 2004. The diamond concentrate will be forwarded to an independent lab for final diamond picking, after which the stones will be subject to independent valuation.

The shaft and drifts will provide access and internal infrastructure for on going underground drilling that will assist in reserve calculations in the future.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

300-224 4th Ave. South
Saskatoon, SK
Canada S7K 5M5
Tel: 306-664-2202
Fax: 306-664-7181

©Shore Gold Inc. 2004


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bill1352
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i think the only thing we can call fact is that in the kimberlite on cmkx claims there are diamonds and enough to mine as everywhere in the entire area it is true. by the dates of each step of shore mining i think its also fact that cmkx is at least 3 yrs from getting to the point of starting a mining proccess and the cost of getting to that point is big but remember there are 4 companies to share the cost. hopefully these last 2 prs will put an end to the concerns of naked shorting and somebody can get busy mining diamonds
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STAR GAZER
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On Sterlings board over at the Raging Bull site, they also think that CMKX has found diamonds big time. Potential is good! but mineable results (diamonds) are better! In my opinion Glen and company came on board because some of the core results were obviously excellent! I Dont believe Glenn would come on board for potential alone. I believe we have core results so excellent that it has given Urban, Glenn and company all the confidence in the world to purchase additional equipment, finance the drag racing and do whatever other exploration deemed appropriate at this time. I dont think this conficence shown by all the latest action is on potential alone, I believe this confidence and action is the outward sign of knowing we have struck diamonds BIG TIME!

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STAR GAZER
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bill1352, you are right, we have a long way to go before we will be producing diamonds, but like you say, the costs will be shared four ways. Also, according to articles that I have read, the price of a company's stock is very low during its initial exploration and evaluation of a metal or diamond site, but as results come in and as steps are taken to secure funding and then actually start mining and selling the diamonds the price of the stock can rise dramatically. We are in the early beginning stages, but for people that hold for the long run, this could be one of those stocks that people can normally only dream about, and we are in it at the beginning of its climb.
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WWJD-thru-me
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Bill - I agree with most of what you posted on the naked shorted issue. The point where my opinion diverges is where you said CMKX's worth is based on diamonds not yet found. The value will be the total number of acres of mineral rights and surveys already done indicating minerals and their supply. This could include gold and uranium and definitely zinc. We can make the gold a definite if those numbered claims are ours via a PR. We also own cash and shares in at least 2 companies. We have not been reporting and may have already had sales of some minerals. We also may have sales or offers of certain claims. What has been issued in PR's over the last 18 months if taken as truth and looked at as pieces of a picture indicate we may already have agreements and pieces of as many as 8 companies and will recieve shares from each of those. I think we have only seen the beginning of the dividend PR's. Here is a copy of a post that has a PR about receiving spin off dividends the reasons for them:

By: elvis-is-here
15 Jul 2004, 10:59 AM EDT
Msg. 41533 of 51016
Jump to msg. #
(CMKX)-The Plan-IMO
Check this old pr from cmkx re: naked shorts. Very interesting. Maybe they planned to do this scenario but it was too complicated so they hired an attorney.

By the way (SCHB) Schwab Capital Markets, is quitting as mm.


Casavant Mining Kimberlite International Announces
Business Wire, Jan 7, 2003

Business Editors

LAS VEGAS--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan. 7, 2003

Casavant Mining Kimberlite International Inc. (OTCBB:CMKI) announced today a series of corporate initiatives in advance of the January 15, 2003 majority shareholder meeting to be held in Las Vegas, NV.

First, CMKI is encouraging every shareholder to hold his shares in certificate form and if the shares are held in street name to make sure that he registers the shares in his own name to make sure the shareholder is properly identified in the official shareholder's audit that is being conducted by the Company and its Transfer Agent. The purpose of the audit is to make sure that every shareholder of record is identified for purposes of the CMKI's mandatory share and cash dividend policy. The share and cash dividend policy is explained below in fuller detail.

Second, CMKI will be contacting the broker-dealer and market maker community to request their cooperation in the shareholder audit. In this regard, CMKI has identified the following market-makers who are active in the Company's shares based on information obtained on January 6, 2003 at www.otc.bb.com, as follows:

AGIS Aegis Capital Corp.
BAMM Brokerage America, Inc.
BMAS BMA Securities
BPAT Baird, Patrick & Co., Inc.
CLYN Carlin Equities Corp.
DOMS Domestic Securities, Inc.
FRAN Wm. V. Frankel & Co., Inc.
GNET Globenet Securities, Inc. (1)
GNLN Gunallen Financial, Inc.
GVRC GVR Company LLC
HILL Hill Thompson Magid, L.P.
JEFF Jeffries & Company, Inc.
LTCO Ladenburg, Thalman & Co., Inc.
MAYF May Financial Corporation
MHMY M. H. Meyerson & Co., Inc.
NAIB Global Partners Securities Inc.
NATL National Securities Corporation
NITE Knight Securities, L.P.
PGON Paragon Capital Markets, Inc.
PILL Phillip Louis Trading Corp.
PRGM Program Trading Corp.
PUGS Puglisi & Co.
QUIN Park Financial Group, Inc.
SCHB Schwab Capital Markets, L.P.
SEAB Seabord Securities, Inc.
TDCM T.D. Waterhouse Capital Markets
VFIN Vfinance Investments, Inc.
(1) Globenet Securities, Inc. was an active market maker during part of the trading day on January 6, 2003, but later "excused" itself from market making activities.

Third, CMKI has been informed that majority shareholders plan on holding their shares in certificate form indefinitely if it helps the Company combat "naked short selling". Under a naked short sale, short positions are not declared, shares are not borrowed to cover the short sale, and the shares are sold without delivering the stock to the purchaser. Real shareholder ownership is undermined by naked short sales of stock and failed deliveries of real certificates that artificially inflate ownership and devalue the price of the securities.

Fourth, CMKI, as previously announced, plans on approving at its majority shareholder meeting a mandatory share and cash dividend policy. The share dividend policy reflects the Company's acquisition strategy that identifies undervalued take-over targets in mineral resource and related businesses. The Company is currently evaluating 7 companies each of whom will benefit from new managerial economic assessment, asset appraisals, accounting peer review and legal restructuring.

Fifth, CMKI believes that its shareholders and the targeted company's shareholders will best benefit from a "cross-dividend" policy. For example, if CMKI acquires a new target company in an exchange of shares, CMKI will pay its shareholders a mandatory 8% dividend of the total number of shares exchanged with the new target company. The shareholders of the new target company will be treated with the same fairness and therefore will be entitled to receive a mandatory 8% dividend of the total number of CMKI shares exchanged with the new target company. Since the mining and mineral resources business is highly fragmented, CMKI believes that its acquisition strategy will provide a way to leverage its assets into a larger more diversified portfolio of companies.

Sixth, CMKI believes that its cross-dividend policy will result in share dividends being issued in the 3Q03. The legal audit of its shareholders of record will speed up this process. Further, CMKI has structured its mandatory 10% cash dividend policy (which is based on its net earnings) to benefit those shareholders of record on the declared dividend date.

Seventh, CMKI believes that its acquisition strategy, spearheaded by the Casavant Family, will require the addition of a seasoned management team. Accordingly, the Board of Directors has nominated Jay McFadden to become Vice-Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, David Bending as President and Chief Operation Officer, and Rick Taulli as Secretary. Messrs. McFadden, Bending and Taulli are currently affiliated with Juina Mining Corporation. See www.juinamining.com. The Board of Directors has nominated David DeSorneau as Treasurer. Mr. DeSorneau was previously a consultant to CMKI. See December 3, 2002 Press Release. The nominations will be voted upon by the majority shareholders at the January 15, 2003 meeting.
---------------------------------------------
I have read so much about CMKX pro and con over the last few months and when I think about a man who has spent many years trying to put together a mining company, and owns the mineral rights to at least 1.4 acres of the most coveted, mineral rich land in North America and possibly the world, and has retained a quality law firm and lawyer to assist in reporting, has asked for audits and done them it does not add up to a scam. Why spend so many years and line up everything that could help you succeed to pull off a scam? I know some people would but UC is said to be a straight shooter by a large number of credible people who have met him. And UC does make himself accessible at the races to any investors. I intend to go to one of the races on the East Coast one of these days and talk with him myself. Anyway, we all make our decisions based on what we know after filtering it through everything we have seen and lived through. I don't see this as a scam. I know some have tried to enlighten me but they have fallen far short. Still long and strong and looking to spend the big bucks in September.
GLTA-DD-IMO-Debi PS I have asked for some of my shares in certificates and will be asking for more but keeping plenty liquid. I have 16 million+ with Freetrade and they will not issue certificates for these or possibly any stocks. Also, all their accounts are margin so I assume they are borrowing against stock all day long. Our dollars at work. IMO-Debi


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cool1sh
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I hope the negative minded people go to these races and post here what they see instead of saying this is a scam or finding some old s**t (calling it DD).

May be they will say "The race is a scam, there is no race" ??

Go CMKX!!
_______________________________

Debi Posted:
And UC does make himself accessible at the races to any investors. I intend to go to one of the races on the East Coast one of these days and talk with him myself. Anyway, we all make our decisions based on what we know after filtering it through everything we have seen and lived through. I don't see this as a scam.


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Wallace#1
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Re the naked short sold shares - assuming they exist and that it is a large number. I will add that I am not convinced either way.

Some of you seem to be saying that those naked short sold shares actually exist. As I said before, I do not agree.

I refer you to a post by finky4x2 on p.22, 7/24 at 21:39. This was an article by Frederick D Lipman, Esq as of 6/10/2004.

Item 1 states "Naked short-sellers...artificially increasing the supply of stock...sales."

Item 2 states "By selling shares that do not exist, naked short-sellers undermine the authority...to control the number of outstanding shares."

Please note the words "artificially" and "shares that do not exist" above.

Now go to Debi's post above at 19:03 which is an old release dated Jan.7, 2003 and read the 2nd paragraph beginning with "First,".
CMKI is basically saying the same thing.

As far as trading is concerned, naked short sold shares do exist in a way because they are being bought and sold along with valid shares, and, anyone could be trading them.

However, when it comes to a distribution of any kind (dividend, split, spin off, etc.), those shares do not exist. They are not authorized shares. They would not be entitled to participate in any distributions from the TA's or the Company's point of view.
If it were a question of shareholders voting on a proposal, the naked short shares would not be able to participate there either...and, yes, I know public shareholders of CMKX do not have that right as of now.

In my previous example of 10 shs I/O and 5 shs naked shorted, making a total of 15 shs being "traded", only 10 shs would participate in a distribution. I am sure that is a fact.

Holders of the non-existing 5 shs would have to fight someone for any distribution and that would start with your broker who also had you OK an "arbitration agreement". Arbitration boards are generally made up of a majority of other brokers...that's why they had you OK the agreement. It is weighted in their favor.

Let's say you are lucky and they rule in your favor -- that you are entitled to the distribution or some other form of compensation. That compensation, would have to come from the broker, the DTC or the MM.
Definitely not the TA or the Company. How any holders would fare is unknown, but it might be costly in the case of CMKX, UCAD and CIM. I would lay odds that it would be (and again, if ruled in your favor) in cash.

If brokers can delay crediting their client accounts with distribution shares, they might be able to cover by buying both UCAD and/or CIM shs. With the same delay by the brokers, the MMs (who are working with the brokers) might be able to cover. Why? Margin accounts from which they can borrow immediately after the distribution when and if paid. If it is not paid, they do not have to worry about it, since nothing happens until the Payment/Distribution Date.
Meanwhile, between the Record Date and the Payment or Distribution Date, the MMs will be doing everything possible to cover their shorts by buying shares at the lowest prices possible.

[This message has been edited by Wallace#1 (edited July 25, 2004).]


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bill1352
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i agree with you wallace any naked shares do not exist and yes arbitration is what would happen at the same time the brokers reputation would be on the line. if it turns out that there is naked shares but the number isn't very big both the brokers & the mm's may want to cover on the side to keep it quite but if the number is large like some believe the media would have to cover it thus putting the companies that the public deals with in jeopardy. the average joe may know of and what a mm is but the ppl that need joe's money is the broker. yes its not weighted in our favor but public perception and media coverage is a strong force.
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Upside
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Wallace,
Forgive me if this is an ignorant question but, using your example of 10 o/s, let's say you own all 10 of them and I own 5 naked shorted ones. Then a per share distribution of some type comes along from the company. How do they know that your 10 are valid and my 5 are not?

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Wallace#1
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Bill,

I did not say naked shares do not exist. As to that, I am unsure...neither yes nor no.


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Wallace#1
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Up,

I do not think either the company or the TA would know which were valid.

Remember I am not sure of the exact process, what I think might happen is the Co/TA will say to themselves, we have 10 shs I/O and pass the dividend (lump sum form) on to the DTC which will in turn pass that dividend on to the brokers who credit the shareholder accounts.

Some shareholders will say, I did not get my distribution, or, it will be spotted by brokers or the DTC before it gets to that stage.

Somewhere along the way (if the stock is shorted to any great amount) some serious questions will be raised with the MMs.

If there is such serious and major short shares selling, as Bill stated above, it would probably get public somehow...even if the brokers and MMs tried to hush it up.
-----

[This message has been edited by Wallace#1 (edited July 25, 2004).]
-------------------------------------------
In my post above, I stated that only 10 shs would participate in any distribution. That would be true only from the perspective of the TA and the Company. Theoretically, the broker or the MMs could provide or be forced to provide the equivalent in cash or securities.

[This message has been edited by Wallace#1 (edited July 25, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by Wallace#1 (edited July 25, 2004).]


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WWJD-thru-me
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Wallace -The naked short shares exist in our accounts once they are created and function the same as any other share that is matched to a certificate as far as trading goes. We trade naked short shares all the time. The only time it becomes an issue is when a dividend needs to be paid or some other intervention that forces a cover.

Bill is absolutely correct when he says it is in the brokerage house's and MM's best interest to cover the naked short shares. The cost of not doing so in harm to their reputation, the market, the lawsuits plus the hassle from every customer they have would be intolerable.

I am looking forward to seeing how this all plays out. I expect the Naked Short problem to be handled by our expert legal team in a way that benefits the shareholders. That includes all who bought in good faith through a broker.

I used to write contracts for disability insurance. I studied some very basic insurance law to pass some insurance exams. There are so many laws that come into play in every aspect of contracts including the buying and selling of securities that we are protected in many ways we may never even have considered. These one sided contracts that we sign with our brokers set up responsibilities for the sellers that have the public trust. They cannot take our money and not provide what we bought in good faith. There seems to be a theme on this board that thinks that the broker can at the last minute say Oh! it was naked short and Oh golly I don't have the money to pay. That will not fly in the court of public opinion, common sense or any court of law. That is my opinion and it is based on how I read responsibilities of brokers and all who are entrusted to deliver securities that are sold. The responsibility to deliver is with them -not with us. We can ask for certificates if we are worried about our shares. But we should not have to question the validity of shares we buy through legitimate brokers-that is the whole point of the SEC and DTCC. They tell us there is no such thing as naked shorting and so do most brokers. Like I said previously-this is going to be real interesting, educational and IMO profitable. GLTA-DD-IMO-Debi


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Wallace#1
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Debi,

Agree with everything you said except the 3rd paragraph about "our legal expert". Assuming that it is Glenn to whom you are referring, I'm not sure he will be or get involved. Just don't know.

This really is interesting and unusual. Do you think it will ever play itself out?

Got to hit the sack now. Spent most of the day helping my neighbor again - put up facia boards and gutters on the house. Very tired.
Good night.

[This message has been edited by Wallace#1 (edited July 25, 2004).]


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tradingpennys
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They don't own the property.
They own the claims.

quote:
Originally posted by RaiderJR:
An interesting thought on the CIM dividend. It is not worth much now, but if the property is sold then the value of the shares will be based on the sell price. Say it is sold for 1 billion. Then 1/40 = .025 per share.

If the dividend is 1/1 then it would make people wealthy if they own a lot of CMKX.



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WWJD-thru-me
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Good Morning All, I have to go to traffic court this AM for the appeal of my speeding ticket that I got a long time ago. If the officer who wrote the ticket doesn't show up I automatically win my case. I am hoping he is pulling a detail with Democratic National Convention in Boston and I can save myself enough money to get 3 million more shares. The ticket is only $175 but the rating it would create will add about $1000 to my insurance. Here is a post I liked today which speaks to Urbans charcacter as assessed by Greggdog whose posts I have read many times. I think it echoes what most longs have said in meeting him and I intend to meet him myself in the near future.

My Report From the Seattle Races

by diamondogg11

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My Report From the Seattle Races
« Thread started on: Today at 12:57am »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am partially writing this in defense of Dr. D (even though I know he doesn't need this)..

I personally was at the races this weekend in Seattle..I had a chance to meet with Urban face to face for about 15 minutes..for the record Urban was very professional and did not reveal any inside information..but after my conversation with him I did debate on whether or not ALL that I heard would be appropriate for the main board..not because I don't trust all the wonderful longs here, but because there are hundreds if not thousands who lurk here on a daily basis and Lord only knows who they are..not to be paranoid but some market makers or others who would like to possibly harm cmkx could potentially manipulate what would otherwise be positive information for us to digest.

I myself debated what would be the best way to share my observations and quite frankly I decided against just posting for public consumption..I believe Dr. D had the same concerns when he asked for personal messages but obviously because so many people respect Dr. D's insight and posts, this quickly got out of hand.

Dr. D understands the sensitive time we are in and he has always been an asset to this board..

I also understand what kind of situation the moderators are in because they are trying to keep some sense of order..I'm sure they meant no disrespect to Dr. D.

Again, my hesitation to publicly post my experience was because anything with Urban's name attatched to it could be easily manipulated..and in light of what happened last weekend things can get out of control very quickly..

At this point, I will briefly share my experience at the Seattle races but I will not give any information that I believe would be helpful to anyone who is NOT a supporter of cmkx.

I went on Saturday, and for Seattle weather it was HOT..when I first approached the cmkx pit area Ron was there and we chatted briefly. I got one of the pr packets (with the poker chip and map)..and from what I could tell the map was not significantly different from what I have seen before..but this was not a surprise to me..Ron said that Urban was still at the track and that he did not know where Melvin was at..

When I came back a little later, I ran into a well known poster of this board (I will not mention his name right now without his permission)..and he said other investors were also there..including Topo and someone else we know (and I'm not talking about Sterling )..someone else from this board. This respected poster (IMO) said he hung out with a market maker on Friday night. This market maker confirmed the short based on their experience. Like I said, some other interesting details were discussed but really no reason to put things out there that could be read and used by those who want to hurt cmkx.

Soon afterwards, I was able to talk with Urban. Funny cars on both sides of us were revving their engines so we had to just stand there for a couple minutes without saying a word..I told myself that if I was able to meet UC that I would do two things..1. Try to size him up as an individual and 2. Try to concentrate on just one subject of interest..

I started out slow, asking him if he liked to golf like Melvin and UC simply said that the cars were his thing..then he quickly showed me Melvin's name on the side of the car..

I asked UC about the short situation and whether or not he was surprised about the pps movement after the announcement of both dividends..he responded that cmkx was working on a solution to the short problem, and that this is a problem that has been going on for some time..

Urban was very confident when he spoke to me but I hesitate to even say whether he was highly confident or less confident because again..there is no reason for those who would wish harm on cmkx to have any more information than that..

The value of my time with Urban was not in the details he shared with me (again, he shared no secret information)..but it was the sincerety in which he expressed a caring for the shareholder. He mentioned nothing to me that is not already public knowledge, but hearing it from the man himself was a confidence builder.

After my conversation with Urban, Melvin soon afterwards drove up in a golf cart..he looked a little tired to me..

Because I felt so good about my conversation with Urban I felt no need to bother Melvin. I simply went up to him and shook his hand..I told him that we all were praying for his wife and he looked grateful for the sentiment. I think he was surprised a little that I didn't even want to ask a question. For some reason, it just felt good to shake his hand, smile and then walk away.

My experience at the Seattle races was a good one. My goal of sizing up the man who is leading cmkx through this amazing time was successful imo. In my mind I just confirmed what many others before me have reported. Urban seemed genuinely concerned for the shareholders and confident that cmkx would be successful..and one more thing..

This is just my observation from all those around me at the races..this does seem to be a special time for cmkx..

Let's all hope for the best. Diamondogg

---------------------------------------------
Hi Wallace, I expect this to play out with an eventual cover. More likely after the second dividend (CIM) since it can't be purchased to pass on to shorted shares. I also expect that we may see more dividends including cash which will add additional pressure (possibly the most to date). I also expect things to get very ugly on both sides with the MM's using every trick in the book-another stock patrol article this AM which I think will not do the trick-it had nothing new to say IMO. I think the price will be yanked around a lot. I left a buy order at .0003 and when I get back if it filled I will try for some .0002 if it is available. They are whistling in the wind IMO. The short position has been claimed by CMKX for at least a year and it is getting to the time when both sides will be forced to show their hand. I am betting that CMKX will ultimately win. I don't think it will be easy but they seem to have the goods.

One other thing - they had announced they bought 1.9 Million acres of mineral rights back in 2002. I wonder if they sold some rights after they stopped reporting and got some cash for those too. Like I have said many times-this will be interesting.
GLTA-DD-IMO-Debi


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noahltl
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Welcome back Debi. Finishing up my booth work at the fair today. Looking forward to getting back on board tomorrow.
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VNGNTN1
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DEBI
Three posts back ! I am having trouble with the logic on why you disagree with bill. Several sentences later you said "believe more dividend PR's to come". Since dividendes flow from value, wether or not the shareholders know or have been informed, A value MUST exist for these companys to be offering cash or shares to get some of the "VALUE".
VAN

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Bialystock
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Seemed like lots of volume going through at .0004 this morning. But then all of my other boards are dead, so maybe cmkx just "looks" busy...
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Garfield1981
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People gave up on CMKX?

quote:
Originally posted by Bialystock:
Seemed like lots of volume going through at .0004 this morning. But then all of my other boards are dead, so maybe cmkx just "looks" busy...


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Bialystock
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No, it's mostly buys at .0004 from what I can see. All through MM Jeff. Hope they're "real" heh-heh.
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WinsumLosesum
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Ameritrade has just responded to my inquiry as to the validity of my CMKX shares. I've added the bold.

Thank you for contacting us today regarding CMKX.

At this time, we have no reason to believe that the shares showing in your account are a result of a purchase from a naked short sell. However, the company trades as a "Pink Sheet" and is subject to less stringent reporting requirements, so it is impossible for Ameritrade to guarantee that good delivery of the purchased shares will be made.

Recently, the company announced a distribution of shares to qualified shareholders. Again, we have no reason to believe that you will not be entitled to the distributed shares, provided you are holding a position at the market open on the ex-dividend date, or have a settled position on the record date if not quoted ?ex? by the NASD.

Only shares held in a margin account with a debit balance can be loaned (to short sell) or hypothecated (to secure a loan). However, the Federal Reserve Board (FRB) has not deemed CMKX Diamonds a marginable stock, so these shares may not be loaned to short sell regardless of the account type.

You have several options available. You may continue to hold your shares at Ameritrade. Shares in your Ameritrade account are held electronically with The Depository Trust Company (DTC) or registered to Ameritrade directly as custodian For Benefit Of (FBO) your account. This is common industry practice known as "Street Name." While you hold your shares at Ameritrade, you may continue to trade them as you normally would.

Or, it may be possible to hold the physical certificates representing your position in the company. You would then be on record directly with the company's transfer agent, and a certificate would be mailed to you. In order to negotiate the shares, you would need to endorse the certificate and mail it to Ameritrade.

Stock certificate requests may be made online only if issued with a title identical to that of the account holder(s). To request a stock certificate online, you would need to log into your account and click on the tab that reads "Account Services". Under "Withdrawals", requesting a stock certificate is the last choice in this list.

A $40 fee is assessed for the physical mailing of the stock certificate(s) as issued by the company in which the shares were purchased. If the request requires registration to a third party (special registration), the fee is $60, and the request can only be made with a Letter of Instruction signed by all account holders.

These fees along with additional service fees can be found on the last page of the Ameritrade Trading Account Handbook.

Please allow 4 to 8 weeks for processing and delivery by mail.

Again, thank you for choosing Ameritrade. Please feel free to respond to this e-mail or contact us at 800-669-3900 with any questions.

If you have further concerns or inquiries, please reply to this message.

Sincerely,

Scott Bornhoft
Apex Reorganization and Safekeeping, Ameritrade
Division of Ameritrade, Inc.


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Wallace#1
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Debi,

Good luck on beating the ticket!

Bill,

Re your post 7/25 @ 21:45 and mine on 7/25 @ 21:55. Sorry, but I misread your post. Thought you were saying I agreed with there being a lot of naked short selling as opposed to naked short shares existing. We are in agreement.


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Wallace#1
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Winsum,

Great post! Very meaningful.


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