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WWJD-thru-me
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I have had quite a few stocks tank over the last few months. Some are simply the ebbs and flows of the market but some are having their stock diluted by new shares being issued for financing purposes. I would like to see this subject kept up to date on a permanent thread. We would need to be careful that it doesn't become an invitation to bash. DD needs to be posted-numbers and where they came from. Also, very important-if the dilution is adding value for the shareholders. In that case it may not be a bad thing. MOBL's CEO for instance has stated that they will only trade shares when they get the better end of the deal. They are looking to add value to the shareholders. I will post my first 2 companies that are diluting shares after I put in all my orders this AM. GLTA-Debi
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WWJD-thru-me
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BLYC-Has gone down in price from .073 to .03 and selling pressure is very stong. They have been adding shares. THere were
549.161 Million Shares as of yesterday according to the Transfer agent. There is a link to the message boards at www.bentleycommerce.com and it has further DD there. This dilution may not be the cause of the price dip. The newer shares are mostly restricted but the company has been selling some at a discount to the market. The stock was possibly being shorted on the Berlin exchange and that could also have hurt the price. I sold most of my shares this AM. But I still like the company but want to wait until the selling at a discount is over before buying more. DD-IMO-GLTA-Debi

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WWJD-thru-me
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BIBO-Was sasson-great clothes, good prices, horrible financing deal. I was watching this stock and bought back in at .03 thinking it was ready to pop. It is .017 today and the selling pressure is strong. Level 2 is showing huge sells and few buys. They have a 'death spiral' type of financing deal according to their filing with the SEC. They don't call it 'death spiral' but it is linked to the price of shares and more shares are issued to sell to the lender to borrow money. The price has been going down, down, down, as more shares are issued to sell to get less and less money for financing. Very unfortunate. The clothes and website are great. If they can survive the financing deal it could be good. When this toxic funding is past the lender will pump the price to dump his shares at a profit. If we watch we can buy low and sell before they do. I sold at a loss and kept a few shares to help me monitor the situation. DD-IMO-GLTA-Debi
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salemm
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If dillution is occuring to pay for... ANYTHING... it IS adding value to investors. You-no-pay-you-no-get-nuting
Don't pay your bills? Creditor problems, lower credit rating, lawsuits...
Don't invest in new areas, expansion, etc... you'll stagnate and lose out to your competitors....
You gotta spend! And for many pinks that do not have (or very little) revenues... the only option is paying with shares. They gotta get those shares somewhere. Print 'em up!! Dillution.
The fact is... if your not the CEO himself... you'll never know if the dillution was worthy or not for the company.
salemm.

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Upside
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Debi,
Are you looking for the information strictly when new shares are issued? What about when a company increases their authorized amount? Dilution usually follows shortly thereafter. Would you like that info. also?

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by WWJD-thru-me:
I have had quite a few stocks tank over the last few months. Some are simply the ebbs and flows of the market but some are having their stock diluted by new shares being issued for financing purposes. I would like to see this subject kept up to date on a permanent thread. We would need to be careful that it doesn't become an invitation to bash. DD needs to be posted-numbers and where they came from. Also, very important-if the dilution is adding value for the shareholders. In that case it may not be a bad thing. MOBL's CEO for instance has stated that they will only trade shares when they get the better end of the deal. They are looking to add value to the shareholders. I will post my first 2 companies that are diluting shares after I put in all my orders this AM. GLTA-Debi

EXCELLENT!!!!!
dilution is why these are pennies for the most part....
OTCBB stocks MUST file with the SEC when they do this...pinks don't.....
dilution can be a good thing if done EFFECTIVELY..i have watched numerous biotechs sell shares to finance ongoing operations and come out WAY up, but they invaribly go down first....
trading into the dilutions are profitable...IF they are good biz...
thanx Debi....
some more rare wisdom on the micro board....


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WWJD-thru-me
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What I am looking for is information related to new shares being issued that will (or are) affecting a stock's price negatively. I expect for some companies to use sales of shares to pay some bills but if printing shares beomes their main business we definitely want a heads up. If a company has a toxic lending deal-lets give each other a heads up on that too. Those who don't learn history are doomed to repeat it. BIBO is a good example of what I want to read about. If I knew then what I know now I would have passed on what looked to be a bargain. NNCO-I don't know where the bottom is on that one. I assume they are issuing shares to purchase Red Alert. That will be a good purchase and the stock price will go up once that is finished IMO. But I have held off buying more shares til maybe today right after I finish this post. I am concerned about PLKC and IESV if their stock is being diluted or what is going on with that price. It seems PLKC has an awful lot of selling pressure. The price looks good to buy now-but is it really? Basically, if a price is declining and shares are being newly issued or sold by the company lets keep each other informed if the dilution is going to add good value then great. If the dilution is to keep a dying operation on life support-pull the plug. DD, IMO, GLTA and Thanks-Debi
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greenhorn
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Thanks Debi!!!!!!!!!!!! This is great, especially for a newbie. I got burned on CDVJ because of dillution. I bought IBZT the other day it gets it gets good news and volume is twice the daily average and it goes down. Somebody on another board said we got s8 with another 200,000,000 shares (whatever that means) I take it dilluted. I guess you have to look at the AS, OS, and float very carefully and still need luck. CDVJ said they would buy back shares which they probably did but still issued out more then they bought back. Not Fair. They have a lot going on and need capital, but dillution is not fair to us that bought early. I guess this newbie has a lot to learn. Greenhorn Thanks Again!!
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glassman
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Greenhorn, some of us take a LOT of grief for trying to ALERT people to these dilutiuon situations. I have adopted a policy of mentioning problems when i see them with as neutral a tone as i can manage. Some of them really tick me off...
when people start posting things like "go away LIAR", we don't want you here, that should be an alarm bell for you. i have been accused of being a short-seller by people who don't even seem to realise you can't short non-marginable stock unless you have special financial arrangements, which don't make much sense unless you get some perverse joy out of it....
in pennyland -ANYTHING can and does happen...i really do want to see all of the stocks go up..its good for biz..but some of them just aren't on the level-- i try my best to sort them out, and i often make mistakes too...
reading SEC filing is the only way that i know of to determine whether a company is diluting shares and whether it is a good thing or bad thing.......it takes a while to do, but if someone expects to make money for nothing then maybe they should try LOTTO...
for daytrading, you need to set your profit/loss limits and stick to them...i hold a stock about as long as i put the DD into it..long hold = more DD.....
good luck...

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Upside
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
Some of them really tick me off...
when people start posting things like "go away LIAR"

Hmmmm, who could that be? LOL!


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WWJD-thru-me
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quote
_____________________________________________
EXCELLENT!!!!!
dilution is why these are pennies for the most part....
OTCBB stocks MUST file with the SEC when they do this...pinks don't.....
dilution can be a good thing if done EFFECTIVELY..i have watched numerous biotechs sell shares to finance ongoing operations and come out WAY up, but they invaribly go down first....
trading into the dilutions are profitable...IF they are good biz...
thanx Debi....
some more rare wisdom on the micro board....
_____________________________________________

Glassman-I appreciate your wisdom on allstocks. Are there any pennystock companies that you think are especially good at trying to add value for their shareholders? I like the press release CXIN's CEO Michael Tremis put out today about wanting to add value for their shareholders. QUOTE 'My aim is to create an immensely successful and profitable corporation, void of any unnecessary dilution. My philosphy of transparency, full disclosure, and timely reporting allows our valued shareholders the opportunity to voice their opinions to management as decisions are being made, without having to incur the prohibitive cost associated with a mail-in proxy. I suggest all shareholders to send their opinion by e-mail to mtremis@bio-tracking.com' I love the line about unnecessary dilution and also transparency and full disclosure. If this .05 a share company lives up to that it will be very successful. This is the kind of company I would feel comfortable holding long term. DD-IMO-GLTA-I need to do some more research on this company but already own some. -Debi


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greenhorn
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Thanks Glass,
I appreciate your advice and knowledge of the penny market. Greenhorn

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Upside
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The companies I try to look for are ones that have a fairly large a/s but have actually issued only a small portion of them. BLYC is one of them. They have 2.5 billion authorized with only 20% of them issued. Granted it's still a large number of shares outstanding and the number could change overnight but it tells me that they are issuing new shares only when necessary. I can understand having a warchest, so to speak, of authorized shares just to be prepared for anything that might come up, but when a company only issues small portions of them as business dictates, that to me is a solid fundamental business practice.
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BigT1
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Debi, Glassman have either of you looked at CIRT? Is this dilution adding value or taking it away? $5 mill at (if I figured it out right. They said had issued 98 mill shares for approx. first $2.3 dollars) a little over 200 shares dilution.

Press releases look good but appeared today to be major dilution by 1 MM, while most of rest just held their ask price steady. Would that mean they know dilution is almost done and then price will move back up? I'm confused on this one, and have big position that I'm getting nervous about.

Purl warned me about possable dilution just before the stock went on its tear from .045 to over .08. Didnt appear to be affecting price so had forgotten about it until last couple of days.


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WWJD-thru-me
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Big T 1 wrote:
Debi, Glassman have either of you looked at CIRT? Is this dilution adding value or taking it away? $5 mill at (if I figured it out right. They said had issued 98 mill shares for approx. first $2.3 dollars) a little over 200 shares dilution.
Press releases look good but appeared today to be major dilution by 1 MM, while most of rest just held their ask price steady. Would that mean they know dilution is almost done and then price will move back up? I'm confused on this one, and have big position that I'm getting nervous about.

Purl warned me about possable dilution just before the stock went on its tear from .045 to over .08. Didnt appear to be affecting price so had forgotten about it until last couple of days.
_____________________________________________
I like CIRT-I was going to buy and had made money in the past buying at .065 but was concerned that shares were being sold into the run yesterday. I am not sure where the bottom is but I am looking to buy sometime soon. They have orders and back orders and that old adage it takes money to make money may be in play here. So I am going to try to watch level 2 for selling pressure. If it seems to be gone I will nibble at a good price hopefully under .058. Also BLYC even though there had been a lot of selling into the last run it was probably a mistake for me to sell most of my shares at .031 or so. I think I overreacted from paranoia. I do think BLYC is adding value and has respect for the shareholders. DD-IMO-GLTA-Debi


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blue_in_MI
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good posting topic, Debi! My stock hit hard by dilution lately is EFLT. I sold it this week after reading their 4/28 filing, looks to be headed towards a billion o/s. WNMI also suffering on this account
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SmokingUSA
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AGIS I'm sorry to say added
more shares. I can't find
the share holder info they
sent me in the mail, but will
try to find more info for you!
I found it on the web.

Form 8-K for AEGIS COMMUNICATIONS GROUP INC

6-Feb-2004

Other Events

Item 5. Other Events.

On February 5, 2004, the Registrant announced that it had recently signed a $25 million, three year revolving line of credit with Wells Fargo Foothill, part of Wells Fargo & Company (NYSE: WFC). The proceeds from the line of credit will be used for general working capital purposes and financing the Company's growth strategy.

Additionally, the Company made an announcement regarding a soon expected information statement to be circulated to its stockholders that in connection with the investment in the Company on November 5, 2003, by Deustche Bank AG-London and Essar Global Limited, holders of a majority of the outstanding shares of the Company's voting stock approved, by written consent, (1) an amendment to the Company's certificate of incorporation to increase the number of shares of Common Stock the Company is authorized to issue from 200,000,000 to 800,000,000, and (2) an amendment to the Series F Preferred Stock Certificate of Designation to, among other things, increase the number of shares of Common Stock into which each share of Series F Preferred may be converted. These amendments will take effect after the circulation by the Company of an information statement to its stockholders, in accordance with Section 14(c) of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, as amended, and Rule 14c-2 promulgated thereunder. The Company announced that it anticipates shortly filing a preliminary copy of this information statement with the Securities and Exchange Commission and circulating the definitive information statement to its stockholders as soon as practicable after applicable waiting periods.

The Registrant issued a press release announcing this event on February 5, 2004, a copy of which is attached as Exhibit 99.1.

Item 7. Financial Statements and Exhibits.

(c) Exhibits

99.1 Press release dated February 5, 2004 announcing the new Wells Fargo Foothill revolving line of credit and a soon expected information statement to be circulated to its stockholders.

[This message has been edited by SmokingUSA (edited May 07, 2004).]


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WWJD-thru-me
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Blue in Mi wrote: good posting topic, Debi! My stock hit hard by dilution lately is EFLT. I sold it this week after reading their 4/28 filing, looks to be headed towards a billion o/s. WNMI also suffering on this account
_____________________________________________
Thanks-I have WNMI and dilution is the issue. IF, that is a big IF, we are having value added by that dilution then the price will go up. I would like to see the company directly address that. I had sold and then bought back thinking the dilution may be over. At this point I am going to hold and wait to see what develops. I will only average down if they are clearly done selling and the price is rising on good news. DD-IMO-GLTA-Debi

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WWJD-thru-me
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Smoking USA-Great post-exactly what this board is for. I tried to start a current Share Count thread. Did you post that there? I would love to see 50 different stocks we all trade with up to date share counts. We also need some experienced traders to add insight into good dilution. Dilution will usually bring the price down. Even good dilution. This can present great buying opportunites. Another important thing, often when stock is being diluted it is also being pumped. So don't immediately panic after a buy that is in the midst of dilution. But do some DD to see if there is good value being added and if not try to exit with the least amount of damage. If you have a large amount of shares you could sell in 2 or 3 pieces if your trading costs are low to try to get a better average price. Sometimes when the tide turns everyone panic sells and the worst prices are first. Selling on the bounce can also be wise. I know I panic-sold most of my BLYC (which may actually be good dilution-I am not sure), GFYF (ditto-but with 8B A/S-It may be growth that is too quick for a start up to sustain or worse), WNMI, I sold a hunk at a loss and then bought back in (for someone smart I can do some pretty dumb things). Well, I do love to go on but I want to hear from others.
GLTA, keep Doing Da Due -Debi

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WWJD-thru-me
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Upside posted: Debi,
Are you looking for the information strictly when new shares are issued? What about when a company increases their authorized amount? Dilution usually follows shortly thereafter. Would you like that info. also?
_____________________________________________
Upside, thanks for posting and sorry for the delayed response. Yes, that would be very good. Newer investors need to understand the lingo in press releases. The more info we have, the better traders and investors we will all be. The Quantity of shares directly affects the Quality of the investment. Many of the sub-pennies seem to never move and that is because they are diluted beyond repair. Some stocks will move regularly but investors need to be aware of their history and on the lookout for a R/S. AFRR did a R/S and surprised many people. I wasn't entirely surprised. I sold 3/4 of my shares at a loss when it seemed to be in a serious downtrend even on good news. It was a gut level feeling. I knew the share count was very high and a R/S had to be thought of by someone in management. I don't know if I will play AFRT (the new symbol for AFRR) ever, I sure wouldn't invest in it. DD-IMO-GLTA-Debi

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Bo14172
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Debi,

Good topic.
WNMI went from 80M, to 140M, to 388M, to 440M, and to 505M in a very short time period. When the news of signing Paris Hilton came out, they had either the 80M or the 140M O/S amount. They have diluted by 400% - 500% since the announcement. It's still managable if revenues begin to show, but one of many textbook examples of free money the government allows companies to have without obligation of paying it back to anyone.

[This message has been edited by Bo14172 (edited May 08, 2004).]


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blue_in_MI
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here's another one up for the dilution patrol: CTDH. o/s up from 4.8M to 5.8 over the past year. And this part of their filing yesterday really cheesed me off:

"In April, 2004, the Company finalized the acquisition of a sports
card/memorabilia collection (Collection), from its President and major shareholder, appraised at $400,000 by an independent authority engaged by the
consultant described below. The President agreed to accept $280,000 in
unregistered common stock of the Company valued at 80% of the average of the bid
and ask price at the end of the next full trading day; which is 1,029,412 shares
of common stock."

What the heck is this all about? Not sure if this extra 1.25M is even included in the 5.8M O/S. Basically I read this as: the CEO decided to dump his dorky baseball card collection at a premium through the company. I collected baseball cards way back when I was 14, and even I know that the "book value" of cards is a lot like the kelly blue book value of cars: there is *no way* you get that if you try to sell, it's a bogus number. So to me, this reads that the CEO created this sham to sell off his cards at full book value, under the guise of "helping the company create a more consistent revenue stream". Cheeses me off. I like this company due to their low P/E and various other reasons, but I like them a whole lot less now due to this crap. They even gave the card-$-launderer a 20% discount off the stock price, no less! Eck


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blue_in_MI
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oh, that's not even the end of it - they gave the card-$-launderer another $100k for selling expenses. what a joke

"The Company issued 250,627 shares of common stock to the consultant valued at
$100,000, based on the trading value of the stock. The stock was registered
using Form S-8 and the transaction recorded as a prepaid asset amortized over
the term of the agreement."


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Bo14172
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Blue...

Makes companies like GZFX & SSWH more attractive everyday.
GZFX is up and running and has a revenue stream which will grow greatly this summer and through the 3rd and 4th calandar quarter of this year. It would seem there is no need for placing any more shares in the market during this period of increased revenues.

SSWH is a sleeper on the verge of something very big, very soon. After 3 PRs in one week not long ago, I was pleased to see those in contact with the company report no additional shares. They could prove me wrong in the near future, but the result of the recent past was encouraging.

Back on topic, any run IBZT has made with announcement of PR's has been met with additional shares to the market. Even with yesterday's run (if you call it that) to .025-.027, they are still down 30% from the .0404 level they were at 9 trading days ago. Dilution and delays have been their problem with gaining acceptance.

[This message has been edited by Bo14172 (edited May 14, 2004).]


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WWJD-thru-me
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MOBL just announced a $100 Million credit line with Cornell. Read the Banking then tanking thread on Allstocks Free stocks for all and you will learn about what this type of arrangement has done for other companies. Basically dilute the daylights out the stocks and leave the shareholders 'stuckholders'. If you are aware of any that turned out well please post. GLTA-Debi
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Lets try and post every stock that deals with Cornell.

Maybe we can all put together a lawsuit against them.


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