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raybond
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Senator Catches NRA Head In Epic Flip Flop

By Igor Volsky and Annie-Rose Strasser on Jan 30, 2013 at 11:47

Senate Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy (D-VT) caught National Rifle Association Executive Vice President Wayne LaPierre in a significant contradiction during Wednesday’s hearing on preventing gun violence. Since the shooting in Newtown, Connecticut the nation’s most influential gun lobby has opposed the growing bipartisan push for universal background checks, arguing that such a policy would infringe on the Second Amendment rights of law abiding Americans. But as Leahy pointed out, the group has supported the reasonable background checks in the past.

Under current law, gun purchasers buying firearms from federally licensed dealers are subject to background checks. As a result, more than 2 million applicants have been prohibited from purchasing guns. Unfortunately, 40 percent of firearm acquisitions are from individuals who are not licensed gun dealers and do not undergo any background checks. Gun safety advocates have sought to close the loophole for years and in the 1999, the NRA backed this effort.

“We think it is reasonable to provide mandatory, instant criminal background checks for every sale at every gun show,” LaPierre said during a hearing held on May 27, 1999, in the wake of the Columbine High School shooting. “No loopholes anywhere for anyone. That means closing the Hinckley loophole so the records of those adjudicated mentally ill are in the system.”

Leahy pressed LaPierre on why the organization has since changed its mind:


LEAHY: Do you still, as you did in 1999, still support mandatory background checks at gun shows? Yes or no?

LAPIERRE: We support the national check system on dealers. We were here when one of your colleagues held the hearings in terms of who would be a dealer and who would be required to have a license. If you did it for live the good and profit, yes. If you did it for a hobby, no. [...]

LEAHY: You do not support background checks in all instances at gun shows?

LAPIERRE: We do not, because the fact is, the law right now is a failure the way it is working. You have 76,000 people that have been denied under the present law. Only 44 were prosecuted. You are letting them go. They’re walking the street.

LEAHY: Back in 1999, you said no loopholes anywhere for anyone. But now you do not support a background checks for all buyers of firearms?

LAPIERRE: The system the way it is working now is a failure. This administration is not prosecuting the people they catch. 22 states are not even putting the mental records of those adjudicated incompetent into the system. If they try to buy a gun, even if you catch them, and they try to walk away, you let them. They are criminals, homicidal maniacs, can’t mentally ill — and mentally ill. We all know that, maniacs and the mentally insane do not abide by the law.


While NRA leadership opposes universal background checks, its members back the change. A national survey conducted by Johns Hopkins University found that “89 percent of all respondents, and 75 percent of those identified as NRA members, support universal background checks for gun sales. Similar surveys by Pew Research Center and Gallup have also found background checks to be by far the most popular gun control proposal in the aftermath the school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut.”

Here is a copy of the ad the NRA took out in 1999 saying, “We think it’s reasonable to provide for instant checks at gun shows just like at gun stores and pawn shops.”

The NRA broke its commitment to support background checks for “every sale” and lobbied for a watered down provision in 1999.

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glassman
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here's the real problem ray:

"You have 76,000 people that have been denied under the present law. Only 44 were prosecuted. You are letting them go. They’re walking the street."

the most interesting issue her is where the 40% number comes from.. its made up out of thin air, this ifromte hWash Post, not exaclty a Conervative outfit:

rather than being 30 to 40 percent (the original estimate of the range) or “up to 40 percent” (Obama’s words), gun purchases without background checks amounted to 14 to 22 percent. And since the survey sample is so small, that means the results have a survey caveat: plus or minus six percentage points.

Moreover, as we noted before, the survey was taken in late 1994, eight months after the Brady law went into effect, and the questions were asked about gun purchases in the previous two years. So some of the answers concerned gun purchases that took place in a pre-Brady environment.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/update-obama-claim-on-back ground-checks-moved-from-verdict-pending-to-2-pinocchios/2013/01/25/59caeca6-672 f-11e2-85f5-a8a9228e55e7_blog.html

most importantly? NO real assult weapons heve been sold without a fingerprinting and full background check AND a transfer tax stamp fee since the 30's when the real assault weapon restrictions were put in place...

admit it the anti-gun lobby is bunch of liars, and they don't care about Citiznes Rights at all...

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raybond
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january gallop poll shows 91% of americans favor back ground checks.


http://www.gallup.com/poll/160085/americans-back-obama-proposals-address-gun-vio lence.aspx

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Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.

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glassman
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i bet the same numebr of people expect the govt to prosecute people who apply lie on them too, but hey aren't being prosecuted. no mention of the questionable data? i haven't been to a gun show since about 94 or 95, but i did buy a gun directly from custom manufacturer this year. since it was out of state/ i had the gun shipped to local FFL and they conducted the backgorund check for us and charged me $25. most people are agreeable t this system...

suppose i decide to sell one of my firearms to a private purchaser? i can got the gun dealer and get the process done for $25 too? that's fine by me...

76,000 people that have been denied under the present law. Only 44 were prosecuted.

prosecute those people.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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buckstalker
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Sounds like the system is working pretty good to me.....76,000 people that shouldn't have been allowed to purchase a gun, WEREN'T allowed to purchase a gun.
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buckstalker
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Here is another fact ray...

I don't care how many laws you pass, ANYONE can go to ANY large city in ANY state and purchase a gun at ANYTIME without ANY type of background check, and that fact is NEVER going to change...

I don't want bad guys to have guns any more than you do, but the fact is THEY DO!!!!

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***********************

It's all in the timing...

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glassman
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yeah. they've done such a great job getting drugs off the streets by banning them.....

wtf are they thinking? [More Crap]

welcome back my friends to the show that never ends... the "war on guns" will be so much more effective.

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IWISHIHAD
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Originally Posted By Buckstalker:

Here is another fact ray...

I don't care how many laws you pass, ANYONE can go to ANY large city in ANY state and purchase a gun at ANYTIME without ANY type of background check, and that fact is NEVER going to change...

I don't want bad guys to have guns any more than you do, but the fact is THEY DO!!!!
------------------------------------------------

I think that after they take more rights away from us by inacting more gun laws, there will still be more shootings.

Anyone here want to bet me that there won't be?

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glassman
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no i won't take that bet, because you are right.

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raybond
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You have to start somewhere we have listen to you guys side for years. Two facts to many guns get into the wrong hands in this country why make it easier for that to happen and nobody is taking your right to purchase a gun.

You will always have away a criminal can get his hands on a gun. Thats not going to stop society from closeing down the avenues for criminals and making it harder for them.


This movement that is going on now will just get stronger if things don't change now the will later the public polls are now against you and thats a fact and the NRA is running out of steam.

You can call anybody you want all the names you want and act like a 12 year old but that will not stop what is started and that will not stop people from trying to do something.

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IWISHIHAD
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What makes things worst, is that once the gov. takes rights away from us, (by making new laws to protect us) and we find out later that it didn't really help to solve the problem, they will never give us back those rights.

That's why we really need to think twice before we ever ask the gov. to protect us.

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IWISHIHAD
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Originally Posted by Raybond:

You have to start somewhere we have listen to you guys side for years. Two facts to many guns get into the wrong hands in this country why make it easier for that to happen and nobody is taking your right to purchase a gun.

You will always have away a criminal can get his hands on a gun. Thats not going to stop society from closeing down the avenues for criminals and making it harder for them.


This movement that is going on now will just get stronger if things don't change now the will later the public polls are now against you and thats a fact and the NRA is running out of steam.

You can call anybody you want all the names you want and act like a 12 year old but that will not stop what is started and that will not stop people from trying to do something.
-------------------------------------------------

I really think your going to get your wish.

But i think it's going to be a hugh mistake.

I don't think it's going to make much differance in a long run, other than making our country more of a police state.

The older we get the more we should see how are rights erode over time. Many younger people have gotten use to less rights, because they have never known anything different. Many older people feel they need more protection, because they are older.

You can get plenty of protection in some other governments, especially if you are a certain few, but do we really want this type of government?

I know you come from a different work background than most of us, but watch out what you ask for, when thinking about our future generations!

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buckstalker
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The biggest problem i have with most liberals, is that they are emotionally driven idealists....not rational thinking realists

Think long and hard about this ray.... you are WILLING to give up yet another one your freedoms to solve a problem...when in fact, giving up that freedom will NOT solve the problem that you gave up the freedom for...

That is not rational thinking...it is just plain STUPID!!!!

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It's all in the timing...

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raybond
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I don't think I am giving up any rights if I was a criminal I would be not only fire arms but the right to vote.

not rational thinking is to say anybody who wants a fire arm can have one even though they have the attitude of harming people with it.

We cannot have our society run like this anymore.

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glassman
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how about prosecuting the people who already broke the law then?

i've already shown you that the 40% number is BS, and that is according the washington post, not Fox news. leahy uses whatever numebrs are convenient to him instead of actually finding out what is really going on.

if you look at NYC and Chicago and compare the crime stats there? it is prosecutions that have gotten the guns out of the criminals hands. Also? NYC has a stop and search policy that will be found uncosntitutional eventually.. they allow thecops there to invent probable cause, and it is a amtter of policy. this is the big brother thing going amock.. just likebanninf large soft drinks.. you really agree with that? it's more than just a Nanny state, it's ridiculous.

and when fast adn furious was runing? they were LETTING straw purchases go thru on purpose..

so don't tell me we need more laws, we need actual enforcement first.

it's like illegal aliens. it IS ILLEGAL to be here and undocumented, but it is not poilticaly correct to say that. i've shown you the laws on the books right here at allsotocks, they go unenforced... in fact, they refuse to enforce many of the laws regarding illegals here, and the problem just gets worse, we don't even enforce mos tof the laws concerng this. as to attacking the NRA for their position on this? that's just more politcs.

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rounder1
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All that really needs to be said on this issue was stated by Ben Franklin a couple hundred years ago:

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Key words in the above quote: Essential/Temporary

and I would add to that:

They will possess neither for very long.

Free your mind from fear and you will no longer feel the need to look past your own ability to provide your security.

It is a fool that modifies his behaviour to coexist with a threat....a fool that will take action to circumvent a minor threat without considering the unintended consequences of undertaking such an action.

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"The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC)

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IWISHIHAD
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Originally Posted By Rounder1:

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
_________________________________________________

And you are not just getting a little temporary safety, you are also creating a different type of threat... Gov.

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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by buckstalker:
The biggest problem i have with most liberals, is that they are emotionally driven idealists....not rational thinking realists

Think long and hard about this ray.... you are WILLING to give up yet another one your freedoms to solve a problem...when in fact, giving up that freedom will NOT solve the problem that you gave up the freedom for...

That is not rational thinking...it is just plain STUPID!!!!

EXACTLY
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CashCowMoo
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What a joke! They just now release a photo like this? How ironic! This one isnt photo-shopped though lmao, photoshop and video editing seems to be very popular these days.


W.H. Releases Photo of Obama Shooting a Gun

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/wh-releases-photo-obama-shooting-gun_699234. html

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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rounder1
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Forgive any poor typing please.... doin this one from a phone.

I do understand the people that believe we have reached a point in our evolution, as a society, to where we should be okay with not being armed.... I get that. However its a romantic notion..... not based in reality. The truth is that an unarmed populace will be exploited. It might not happen if we were unarmed under Obama.... hell it may take a generation and happen under a GOP president.... but I will bet my ballz that if U.S. citizens ever surrender our 2nd amendment right..... it will be exploited.

Paranoia?... perhaps...... but society after society bears testement to that truth.

The founders new tyranny first hand..... that's why the 2nd exists..... that is its entire purpose......

Governments... no matter how just..... are entities of power. They use the power they have in an effort to secure more power and security..... that's not an accusation..... it just a natural state. "Power corrupts.... absolute power corrupts absolutely.

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"The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC)

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jordanreed
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wake up...this society is armed to the teeth..(no one is talking about taking guns away btw). We are already being exploited. Guns don't help you retain your freedoms..they are already gone. Why don't you ppl see if your guns will get them back? Your 2nd amendment is intact. assault weapons are for assault. You want to assault someone? Go buy a bazooka..you can ..just have to jump through all the hoops and qualify.

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jordan

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IWISHIHAD
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Originally Posted By Jordanreed:

wake up...this society is armed to the teeth..(no one is talking about taking guns away btw). We are already being exploited. Guns don't help you retain your freedoms..they are already gone. Why don't you ppl see if your guns will get them back? Your 2nd amendment is intact. assault weapons are for assault. You want to assault someone? Go buy a bazooka..you can ..just have to jump through all the hoops and qualify.

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Assualt weapon does not mean they use them necessarily for assualt, you can use them any way you want.

Again, do you really think that it will make any differance in randon killings?

Guns do help you retain you freedoms,so do other weapons, governments have known that for a long time, why do you think they keep developing new weapons?

We should ban everyting that does harm, including that computer your using, smoking etc.

I have a problem with all the banning and restrictions, even though many of them i don't do or use.

I feel that everytime we take a small part of of freedom away, we head closer towards a Gov. that seizes complete control of the majority.

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jordanreed
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you have the freedom to own guns!...military weapons are for the military. Your guns don't stand a chance against the military. what freedom will a gun help you keep? remember waco? We have a well-armed. well-trained militia already....why do u feel the need to own military type assault weapons?....You aint in the army no mo...get over it. They aren't talking about banning your guns for godssake! They do great harm..but you can still own them. Btw,smoking is banned in most places nowadays...but you can still smoke, even tho it does harm. This is just not a big deal! Yes , I hate restriction also...but this is a necessary one. Why?..Because SOMETHING has to be done!! Guns are out of control..sure enforce the laws better, better checks and balances etc....but also ban some weapons that the ordinary citizen has no logical use for.Unless you think killing as many things as possible in as short of time conceivable is logical. I don't, unless I'm in the military and at war against an aggressive enemy that wants to kill me! Again...your ability to own guns isn't infringed upon...only certain types,,as well it should be.

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jordan

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CashCowMoo
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Well, the PC police are at it again.

Suspended for picture of a gun: Student Daniel McClaine Jr. hassled for computer desktop background

FLORENCE, AZ - A high school student in Florence, Arizona said he has been suspended because of a picture of a gun.
Daniel McClaine Jr., a freshman at Poston Butte High School, said he saved the picture as his desktop background on his school-issued computer.
A teacher noticed it and turned him in.
The picture shows an AK-47 on top of a flag.
McClaine said the school initially suspended him for three days Friday.


Read more: http://www.wptv.com//dpp/news/national/suspended-for-picture-of-a-gun-student-da niel-mcclaine-jr-hassled-for-computer-desktop-background#ixzz2JsHaQ0pR

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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buckstalker
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Jordan....please "enlighten" me on exactly what attributes a gun must have to be classified as an "assault weapon?
Also clarify what "types" of guns we shouldn't be "allowed" to own

Is an AR-15 an assault weapon?
Is a semi-automatic 30-06 an assault weapon?
Is a 12 gauge shotgun an assault weapon?
Is a semi-auto 22 caliber rifle an assault weapon?
How about a semi-auto pistol?
Have you ever shot any of the above?
Have you ever owned any of the above?
Do you know the ballistics characteristics of any of the above?
Do you know the effective range of any of the above?

To have such a strong opposition to certain "types" of guns, you certainly must know the answers to the above questions...

Also...please explain to me how banning a law abiding citizen like myself from owning an AR-15 or any other "type" of gun is going to stop a NON law abiding criminal from acquiring one...


"
quote:
Originally posted by jordanreed:
you have the freedom to own guns!...military weapons are for the military. Your guns don't stand a chance against the military. what freedom will a gun help you keep? remember waco? We have a well-armed. well-trained militia already....why do u feel the need to own military type assault weapons?....You aint in the army no mo...get over it. They aren't talking about banning your guns for godssake! They do great harm..but you can still own them. Btw,smoking is banned in most places nowadays...but you can still smoke, even tho it does harm. This is just not a big deal! Yes , I hate restriction also...but this is a necessary one. Why?..Because SOMETHING has to be done!! Guns are out of control..sure enforce the laws better, better checks and balances etc....but also ban some weapons that the ordinary citizen has no logical use for.Unless you think killing as many things as possible in as short of time conceivable is logical. I don't, unless I'm in the military and at war against an aggressive enemy that wants to kill me! Again...your ability to own guns isn't infringed upon...only certain types,,as well it should be.


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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by buckstalker:
Jordan....please "enlighten" me on exactly what attributes a gun must have to be classified as an "assault weapon?
Also clarify what "types" of guns we shouldn't be "allowed" to own

Is an AR-15 an assault weapon?
Is a semi-automatic 30-06 an assault weapon?
Is a 12 gauge shotgun an assault weapon?
Is a semi-auto 22 caliber rifle an assault weapon?
How about a semi-auto pistol?
Have you ever shot any of the above?
Have you ever owned any of the above?
Do you know the ballistics characteristics of any of the above?
Do you know the effective range of any of the above?

To have such a strong opposition to certain "types" of guns, you certainly must know the answers to the above questions...

Also...please explain to me how banning a law abiding citizen like myself from owning an AR-15 or any other "type" of gun is going to stop a NON law abiding criminal from acquiring one...


"
quote:
Originally posted by jordanreed:
you have the freedom to own guns!...military weapons are for the military. Your guns don't stand a chance against the military. what freedom will a gun help you keep? remember waco? We have a well-armed. well-trained militia already....why do u feel the need to own military type assault weapons?....You aint in the army no mo...get over it. They aren't talking about banning your guns for godssake! They do great harm..but you can still own them. Btw,smoking is banned in most places nowadays...but you can still smoke, even tho it does harm. This is just not a big deal! Yes , I hate restriction also...but this is a necessary one. Why?..Because SOMETHING has to be done!! Guns are out of control..sure enforce the laws better, better checks and balances etc....but also ban some weapons that the ordinary citizen has no logical use for.Unless you think killing as many things as possible in as short of time conceivable is logical. I don't, unless I'm in the military and at war against an aggressive enemy that wants to kill me! Again...your ability to own guns isn't infringed upon...only certain types,,as well it should be.


You do realize who you are asking these questions to.
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IWISHIHAD
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Originally Posted By Jordanreed:

you have the freedom to own guns!...military weapons are for the military. Your guns don't stand a chance against the military. what freedom will a gun help you keep? remember waco? We have a well-armed. well-trained militia already....why do u feel the need to own military type assault weapons?....You aint in the army no mo...get over it. They aren't talking about banning your guns for godssake! They do great harm..but you can still own them. Btw,smoking is banned in most places nowadays...but you can still smoke, even tho it does harm. This is just not a big deal! Yes , I hate restriction also...but this is a necessary one. Why?..Because SOMETHING has to be done!! Guns are out of control..sure enforce the laws better, better checks and balances etc....but also ban some weapons that the ordinary citizen has no logical use for.Unless you think killing as many things as possible in as short of time conceivable is logical. I don't, unless I'm in the military and at war against an aggressive enemy that wants to kill me! Again...your ability to own guns isn't infringed upon...only certain types,,as well it should be.
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First place is, i don't own a gun, haven't touched one since 1970, and i don't feel the need or want to own one.

But, just because i don't feel the need to own one, doesn't mean that right should be taken away from someone who does, and is law abiding.

So what your saying is, as long as any citizen doesn't like something that some other citizen does, that right should be taken away!

That's like saying, it's all about me, and there is plenty of that going around in the world today.

And by the way, i don't smoke anything.

I know you do, because you mentioned it many times here before.

Do you stop smoking because it's illegal? (and i ain't talking about those regular smokes) Do you think criminals will stop purchasing these guns because there illegal... Fat chance

So what is your point?

There are a lot easier ways to kill people than with a a gun, and you can make the stuff right at home.

What guns don't stand a chance against the military? Is it all about who's got the biggest and best arsenal? In a perfect military world it would be? But i know different, as you mentioned above

What freedom is taken away? The freedom that i have a right to bear arms.

So you think the killing will stop with a ban on whatever guns they finally ban, if not all, eventually... good luck

You just don't get it, it's all about taking a little of this right away and a little of that right, just for our safety.

Read Carefully what Rounder1 said and maybe you will get the jist!

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rounder1
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I am not a gun enthusiast. Given the area of the country in which I live, I am very under armed. I have about 5 guns total now and none of them would be subject to any of the proposed legislation/executive orders that I have heard of....I did have about about 5 other rifles and a shotgun, but I lost them in a house fire a little over a year ago.....along with everything else that was not in one storage unit or another.

That may sound like a lot of guns....but really for the Southeast my arsenal would generally be considered quite pathetic. I used to be an avid whitetail hunter....not so much anymore.....I don't own enough land to really hunt and membership dues for clubs just got to dang high. Mainly due to hunters from Florida coming up and leasing the land for hunting...drove the value up....Good for the land owners....bad for the poor redneck that like to hunt [Were Down]

Jordan, here is the thing. You told me to wake up.....I will tell you to quit being so damn selfish. Just because the citizenry today may not need a gun to protect themselves that does not mean that the citizenry of tomorrow won't. Protecting oneself is every individuals RIGHT. Even people that will not be born until 100 years from now have that right. You exist in the present...obviously... and as such, whether you accept it or not, are charged with being a steward of those rights until such time that you pass away and the responsibility of that burden passes to the next generation. Times and circumstances change....domestic peace today does not assure domestic peace tomorrow.

I understand that you are venting a little bit because you can't understand why a peaceful society clings to guns....its because we like being peaceful. I understand that you think that its futile to believe private gun ownership could thwart a military....but trust me as awesome as our military is....its our 2nd amendment and our exercise of it that has kept this country from being invaded at various points throughout our history.

Think about it this way....everyone agrees that bullying is wrong and we want it stopped.....everyone wants that. We do things, make rules, start programs, report people, etc....ad nauseum. Bullies will always exist and they will always find the weaker among us. Oftentimes, it is the presence of weakness that either invites or creates the bully....blood draws sharks. The best way to stop or prevent bullying is to promote strength in the weak....

If you can agree that the the above is fairly accurate on an idividual level....all you need to do is change the scale and recognize that the same logic holds true at a societal level.

Do not forfeit a strength and invite a bully.

I really do appreciate your frustration with the topic and I hope you appreciate mine as well. Its not just about giving up an assault rifle or a 30 round clip (I don't own either of those)....its about not allowing an inroad. People can't keep drawing lines in the sand only to back up and draw another once the first one is crossed. Thats how you make a comedy sketch...not how you live life.

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"The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC)

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanreed:
you have the freedom to own guns!...military weapons are for the military. Your guns don't stand a chance against the military. what freedom will a gun help you keep? remember waco? We have a well-armed. well-trained militia already....why do u feel the need to own military type assault weapons?....You aint in the army no mo...get over it. They aren't talking about banning your guns for godssake! They do great harm..but you can still own them. Btw,smoking is banned in most places nowadays...but you can still smoke, even tho it does harm. This is just not a big deal! Yes , I hate restriction also...but this is a necessary one. Why?..Because SOMETHING has to be done!! Guns are out of control..sure enforce the laws better, better checks and balances etc....but also ban some weapons that the ordinary citizen has no logical use for.Unless you think killing as many things as possible in as short of time conceivable is logical. I don't, unless I'm in the military and at war against an aggressive enemy that wants to kill me! Again...your ability to own guns isn't infringed upon...only certain types,,as well it should be.

this IS the crux of th eissue jordan, great post.

we "the people" do not stand a chance against eh military. you nailed the whole issue down in one sentnce.

the "thing" is ? my kids and my families kids ARE the Miltiary, I am the military.
The military will take orders to subdue people who do not fight it. That's easy... they will follow orders where they are convinced that it's for the good of the poeple...

but, and her's why you cannot take the guns away from the people; Armed people will actaully say NO!. where unarmed will not. it really is that simple.... the US military (as a whole) will not fire on Civilians i am very confident of that, too many of them come from small towns. there are peole in the miltiary who WILL fire on civvies, and they are being recruited right out of the miltiary into these "contractor" outfits... that is hwo you should most certainly be afriad of, very afraid, they know the people they want and ht epay them very well, so that they have alot to lose if they refuse thir orders.
it really is about a state of mind. guns do not kill people. other people kill people. the "assault rifle" that you thin you know is NOT an asault rifle, period.

the guns they want to ban would NEVER be used by spec forces to perform an assualt by a well financed outfit. period. they are private militia weapons, and we certainly do have the right to own them..... and that was the intent of the Founders. and should remain so...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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the Whiskey Rebellion was the first major internal conflict in the US. everybody gets taught about it in school, but what they DONOT tell you in school is that George Washington who put down the tax rebellion was the largest distiller of whiskey in the new US AND because he was a large producer, he paid a muchlower flat tax instead of the higher tax on the little guys...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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raybond
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20 minuets 4 assault rifles with no background check


http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/02/04/1534871/internet-gun-sales/

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Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.

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buckstalker
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quote:
Originally posted by raybond:
20 minuets 4 assault rifles with no background check


http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/02/04/1534871/internet-gun-sales/

Only one problem with your post there Rayboy...
It aint TRUE!!! Those are NOT assault rifles...PERIOD

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***********************

It's all in the timing...

Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
raybond
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picky picky picky bucky

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Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by buckstalker:
quote:
Originally posted by raybond:
20 minuets 4 assault rifles with no background check


http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/02/04/1534871/internet-gun-sales/

Only one problem with your post there Rayboy...
It aint TRUE!!! Those are NOT assault rifles...PERIOD

LOL, great site, i checked, and i can buy a silencer on that site, which is an assault weapon, but of course i'd have to go thru a complete BI and get printed AND get signed off by my local sherrif... i din;t see any assault weapons for sale without Background checks either... ar-15's have doubled since they started talking about banning them again...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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buckstalker
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quote:
Originally posted by raybond:
picky picky picky bucky

Yeah...I'm funny that way...especially when a bold faced liar like yourself, is attempting to post blatant lies to further his/her agenda

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It's all in the timing...

Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
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