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raybond
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Media Jump On Idea That Social Security Is Going Bankrupt, Ignore Easy Way To Ensure Its Future

By Travis Waldron on Apr 24, 2012 at 10:45 am


Social Security is going broke even faster than expected, according to a report from the program’s actuaries released yesterday. At least, that’s the narrative the national media presented to the American public.

Headlines from across the country — like the following from the Wall Street Journal, Los Angeles Times, and New York Times — were quick to paint a grim picture of the program’s future finances, noting that “painful” changes would need to be made to ensure its solvency beyond 2033:



The headlines and stories that follow create the illusion that Social Security is fast going broke, even though it is fully funded for another two decades and could pay 75 percent of its benefits thereafter (imagine the shock the media would display, meanwhile, if transportation, food stamps, or other programs had two decades of guaranteed funding).

They also ignore an easy way to ensure the program’s long-term solvency without large changes or cuts to benefits. Payroll taxes that finance Social Security are only collected on income up to a certain level ($110,100 in 2012), creating a regressive system that puts an undue burden on low- and middle-income workers. Eliminating that cap would allow Social Security to pay full benefits for the next 75 years, according to a Congressional Research Service report.

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders (I) introduced legislation that would raise the cap last year, but it has been ignored by Republicans and the media, who instead continue to feed the narrative that Social Security needs vast changes — including potential benefit cuts — to shore up its future. Americans of all political stripes oppose cuts to Social Security benefits, but as the Columbia Journalism Review noted earlier this month, media coverage has perpetuated the belief — particularly among young Americans — that Social Security is broken.

“The elite press repeatedly quotes the commentary of the devoted opponents of social insurance retirement programs,” Yale professor emeritus Theodore Marmor told CJR. “But they appear unaware of how they are supporting a strategic attack on social insurance that has been going on for years.”

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Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise.

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glassman
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ray, we are bankrupt, been bankrupt for years and are getting worse instead of better.

t is fully funded for another two decades and could pay 75 percent of

this was forecast to me 25 years ago, i listened to the advice i was given by my own grandparents and have sadly had to watch it all come true.


fully funded? LOL.. nothign is fully funded. they are counting on future revenuse for every panny of it. The bank is overdrawn already

my grandparents lived thru the Great Depression, made barrels of moeny when things got better., and werenever comfortable in their wealth. I now know why, becuase they knew it would happen again, just like it's happened over and over before. the creepy part is that their own kids didn't listen to them, and i did. Their own kids actually made fun of their attitude. That's all th efurther i want to talk about personal stuff, but our country is BK, and it was made inevitable by Bush and Cheney. They were given a balanced budget and squandered it. Romney? I agree he is not showing me any plans to fix it, but Obama has not fixed it either. So ask you and everybody else listening? Are YOU lookinng out for you and yours right now? Cuz it's not looking good down the road from here.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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SeekingFreedom
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quote:
They also ignore an easy way to ensure the program’s long-term solvency without large changes or cuts to benefits. Payroll taxes that finance Social Security are only collected on income up to a certain level ($110,100 in 2012), creating a regressive system that puts an undue burden on low- and middle-income workers. Eliminating that cap would allow Social Security to pay full benefits for the next 75 years, according to a Congressional Research Service report.
Are they going to also increase the PAYOUT for those that would now be PAYING IN for that post $110k incomes? That's the reason that limit is currently in place. So that they don't have to cut million dollar 'retirement' checks for the 'rich'.

Or is this just going to be another way for the 'rich' to pay their 'fair share' to support the rest of the country's lifestyles?

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/weepforthenation

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glassman
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Or is this just going to be another way for the 'rich' to pay their 'fair share' to support the rest of the country's lifestyles?

how come you can only see half the economy?

economics is't jsut about "taking" waht the marketwill bear. It's alos about making the sure the market can actually bear the cost fo supporting the lifestyles of the rich. when you finally see the realtiy of that you will have come along way.. not all the way, but alot further thna you have.

you want to sell things to people? they have to have moeny to pay for it.

you work producing medical products? that's already the most socialised protion of our economy before Obamacare got passed...

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CashCowMoo
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ray is living in obama land where there is enough money going around for everyone, and what everyone wants. All we have to do is raise taxes and build up bigger government.


Saw this earlier, great stuff:

These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read:

1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity.

2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving.

3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else.

4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it!

5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation.


That is hard to swallow for the left.

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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glassman
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LOL cash, you don't beleive in Reaganomics? cuz that's what you are critisizing. Ronald Reagan would be left of center by long shot today.

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raybond
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Cash that is insane.What you are saying is we don't pay for social security? I know people that have paid into it for 50 years and never once has the government had to come to social security rescue. As a matter of fact it has been the other way around.

As a matter of fact glass is right Reagan wound out being a lefties dream. As a matter of fact I would vote for him this time around based on what he did in his eight years in office.

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SeekingFreedom
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quote:
thihnk we see alot fo the same problems int he world and we have differnt way of dealing with them.
Sadly, I'm not sure this will change anytime soon either. From my point of view, I want to bring the 'lowest common denominator' up (either by carrot or stick) while (again the way I see it) you/buck/ray are wanting to raise the lifestyle level of mediocracy without a corresponding increase in productivity.

quote:
economics is't jsut about "taking" waht the marketwill bear. It's alos about making the sure the market can actually bear the cost fo supporting the lifestyles of the rich.
Agreed. That is what controls prices in the marketplace. If a price gets too high for the market (due to budget/money supply issues), less usage will decrease the demand. That lower demand for the current supply will drive prices down. A natural equilibrium MUST exist for any kind of sustainability. The producers (no matter the field) must respect this if they wish to survive.

As for the lifestyles of the rich, that is exactly what keeps the cylce going. The increased consumption of the rich puts that money that they've gathered back into the system. The very thing that the left demonizes is what keep money/food on the tables of the rest of the population that has to produce said consumables/services.

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/weepforthenation

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glassman
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If a price gets too high for the market (due to budget/money supply issues), less usage will decrease the demand

people starving to death is the end result when you are talking about food prices. might as well throw energy into that now too seeing as how the country has been built around the automobile..

raise the lifestyle level of mediocracy without a corresponding increase in productivity.

once again i have to wonder what planet you live on.

keeping your bathroom clean is a job worth paying a living wage for, period. once again the alternative really is death. as p[roven to you here over and over again

importing cheap labor in the form of illegals is not a sustainable solution. the reality of our situation is that people with money also want something for nothing, and that's the real problem.

Abe Lincoln had it correct. Captial is the result of labor and not vice-versa. We happen to be living in a time of "gloabalisation" which spreads the amount of cheap labor available out tot he edges of the earth. What's next? genetically engineered chimps to do the work "nobody wants to do"? Robots? then what do people do to feed themselves? wait, they didn''t have parents who invested int he robots so they have no right to live? once again, we are back to right to life questions.

BTW lets chat some more about how medical devices are paid for thru eitehr govt moeny direct (medicaid) or insurnace moeny (socialism) - no such thing as free market in that business.

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glassman
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The very thing that the left demonizes is what keep money/food on the tables of the rest of the population that has to produce said consumables/services.

this is the same defense slave-owners used. exactly the same. i am a capitalist, but i am to the left of a whole lot o'nutcases

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glassman
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i can't get over the irony here SF...

the "right" claims the the "left" is a bunch of Godless commies or Socialists... The rigth then claims that the love of money will make the markets work on their own and that the "lefty" rules and regs are not just unnecessary but wasteful... do you see where i am headed with this?

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SeekingFreedom
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quote:
keeping your bathroom clean is a job worth paying a living wage for, period.
No offense, Glass, but I have little desire to rehash the last thread on this until someone (ie you or buck) is willing to answer my two questions:


1) So any high school drop out should recieve $50k (if that is what it takes to provide the items on your list) a year bagging groceries as a first job so that we are 'humane' to him\her?

and

2) What is to say that when we do raise everyone's wages to that level that supply\demand doesn't drive the prices of said items beyond it so that we're back to square one?


quote:
BTW lets chat some more about how medical devices are paid for thru eitehr govt moeny direct (medicaid) or insurnace moeny (socialism) - no such thing as free market in that business.

Sure...what direction do you want to focus on?

quote:
i can't get over the irony here SF...

the "right" claims the the "left" is a bunch of Godless commies or Socialists... The rigth then claims that the love of money will make the markets work on their own and that the "lefty" rules and regs are not just unnecessary but wasteful... do you see where i am headed with this?

I don't know about the 'right', Glass, but I see people as individuals with great potential (that is rarely achieved) that when motivated to do so can achieve incredible things. What I see from the 'left' is nothing more than a bunch of 'victimology' peddlers that do nothing to help people reach their potential.

That is the irony I see, Glass. The very people that are claiming to be the champions of the little man are the ones claiming that the little man cannot possibly succeed because the deck is stacked against them...and in doing so they kill ALL motivation for self improvement.

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/weepforthenation

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glassman
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1) So any high school drop out should recieve $50k (if that is what it takes to provide the items on your list) a year bagging groceries as a first job so that we are 'humane' to him\her?



SF i did answer that. there is no mimimum wage that fits all, and b) specifically if peopel have medical coverage, they don't need 50K per year.
as to "bagging gorceries? i wil reiterate:

if the job isn't woriht a living wage? it's not a "real" job.. and if ht ejob is worht doing, it IS worth a living wage.

in other words, no grocery baggers. the ones we have here? they are either cash register people in training, or part of the mental health project for "dependant" adults... your question is stupid. nobody expects a grocery bagger to be professional. on the other hand? there's amillionhotel rooms cleaned everyday by people who are professioanls. they also deserve to have access to health care and to be able to raise a kid...

I don't know about the 'right', Glass, but I see people as individuals with great potential (that is rarely achieved) that when motivated to do so can achieve incredible things. What I see from the 'left' is nothing more than a bunch of 'victimology' peddlers that do nothing to help people reach their potential.

That is the irony I see, Glass. The very people that are claiming to be the champions of the little man are the ones claiming that the little man cannot possibly succeed because the deck is stacked against them...and in doing so they kill ALL motivation for self improvement.


dude, i'm beginning to think you are candidate for oUR grocery bagger progrma here. ther eis ALWAYS going to be stratifcation of society and in America mobiltiy is very high, but as i have said athousand times to you already, somebody has to take out the garbage... everybody cannot be in charge, period fact of life move on with that in firmly set in your mind..

you may WISH to see the world thru some rose colored lenses, but that just means you are delusional.

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glassman
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2) What is to say that when we do raise everyone's wages to that level that supply\demand doesn't drive the prices of said items beyond it so that we're back to square one?

LOL see answer one for starters, this is not logical and you know it.

do you make 50 grand per year watching people? that's what you said you do.
do you have time to post while at work? i'm pretty sure you said as much on one occasion...

the point about living wages is that there's a mindset about what jobs are desirable and what jobs are not that has nothing to do with money. people don't want to take out he garbage even tho some garbage men actually make more than 50 thousand year (yep) they will lie about what they do if asked. they will giveyou a fancy title for the same job..

and no! you can't charge 5$ for a footlong subway sub in SanFrancicsco. That's not abad thing, that just means that San Fran is an expensive place to live. I grew up inside the DC beltway and lived in Hawaii for a couple years.. the difference was minor. I live in MS now, the difference is major and i can't wait to move back to civilisation

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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SeekingFreedom
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quote:
this is not logical and you know it.

I'm sorry, Glass, but I don't agree (obviously).

Buck gave a list of what should be attainable by ANYONE working regardless of skill, education, or ability. By any reasonable definition, this denotes a minimum lifestyle\wage. It doesn't matter how high you raise the monetary compensation for a specific 'menial' job, you will HAVE to raise other wages to address how far removed from 'minimum' they are. This general increase in wages will inevitably raise prices of goods (you CANNOT escape supply and demand). So, we all end up paying more for the same goods and the 'minimum wagers' are still left in an economically sub-par position.

The specific dollar amount is irrelevent. Whatever the 'living wage' amounts to will have a snowball effect on other wages\prices.

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/weepforthenation

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glassman
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The specific dollar amount is irrelevent. Whatever the 'living wage' amounts to will have a snowball effect on other wages\prices.

LOL, you don't even hear what you are saying.

"don't pay people- because if they have money they'll spend it".

do you acknowledge that there are millions of illegals working here illegally that live on beans and rice and save enough of their low wages to send alot of money back to Mexico? That they often live 5 and ten to a room in conditons that are not acceptable?

do you acknowledge that if we ended that, that wages for the jobs they do would come up until "legal" (?) people filled them? yes, prices will follow. and that is MY point. people WITH money are getting something for nothing in this deal..

you on the other hand are calling these people lazy and saying they have no right to reproduce, yet you claim to have religion? i'm sorry, but reality doesn't match waht you want the world to be.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by raybond:
Cash that is insane.What you are saying is we don't pay for social security? I know people that have paid into it for 50 years and never once has the government had to come to social security rescue. As a matter of fact it has been the other way around.

As a matter of fact glass is right Reagan wound out being a lefties dream. As a matter of fact I would vote for him this time around based on what he did in his eight years in office.

I am not against social security at all. I think it is a well intended government program that has some major problems and needs reform.
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glassman
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this is pretty much correct:

 -

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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
this is pretty much correct:

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The Republican Party is the lessor of two evils.
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IWISHIHAD
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Originally Posted By CashCowMoo:

"I am not against social security at all. I think it is a well intended government program that has some major problems and needs reform."
_________________________________________________

The problem is/has been it ain't their cookie jar they need to keep their hands out of it.

They were suppose to be the bankers of it and like most of these bankers they seem to think that once we put our savings in their bank it's theirs to use as they want.

Interesting that the gov. secures bank loans up to a certain amount, but never secured SS.

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buckstalker
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quote:
Originally posted by SeekingFreedom:
quote:
this is not logical and you know it.

The specific dollar amount is irrelevent. Whatever the 'living wage' amounts to will have a snowball effect on other wages\prices.
That is the biggest crock of bullchit I have ever heard...

I am going to give you a real life example of how absurd your statement really is...

I worked at a GM assembly plant for 30+ years and here are the real life numbers for company revenues compared to wages paid to workers.

One assembly plant makes approximately 1000 cars per day working two eight hour shifts. Each car sells for an average price (conservatively) of $25,000.00 for a total revenue of $25,000,000.00 per day.

One assembly plant hires approximately 1200 hourly workers that are responsible to build those 1000 cars (600 workers per shift X 2 shifts).
Each worker was paid (when I left 6 years ago) an hourly wage of approximately $26.00 along with benefits. I am not sure exactly what those benefits cost GM, but some experts state that $70.00 per hour was pretty close to what each worker made including their hourly wages and benefits. I believe that number to be at the high end, but I'll use it here again giving the company the benefit of the doubt.

That comes to...1200 workers X 8 hours a day X $70.00 an hour = $672,000.00 per day

So GM paid it's hourly, low-life, uneducated, non-deserving, greedy union workers $672,000.00 a day to bring in revenues of $25,000,000.00 a day

Now here's where I am going to prove your theory WRONG...

GM now pays it's workers approximately $14.00 an hour with very few benefits. The latest figures I have heard was they are paying out a grand total of about $30.00 an hour including hourly wages and benefits.

With that being said and going by your theory, shouldn't the price that consumers pay for an automobile produced at that factory be less than what they were paying before the wage cuts?

The fact is, the average price of a car produced at that factory today, is MORE than it was before hourly wages were cut in HALF.

The ONLY thing that changes with lower wages is "INCREASED COMPANY PROFITS and INCREASED CEO BONUSES" PERIOD...

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It's all in the timing...

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buckstalker
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Also the reason that I didn't answer the first question you posed before, is that it just wasn't worthy of an answer...

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It's all in the timing...

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glassman
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intersting math there, and people aren't buying the heck out of GM stock?

GM has ALSO managed to show the highest annual profits ever (as of feb) while paying back 70% of it's debt to the US Govt...

people keep complaining about how ht taxpayer lost money int h bailouts, but it isn't showing up as losses to the individual taxpayer at all..

it IS showing up as losses to the individual workers.

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CashCowMoo
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I like how you classify them as "workers" and not employees.

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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buckstalker
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
I like how you classify them as "workers" and not employees.

What do you "like" about it cash?

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***********************

It's all in the timing...

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buckstalker
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
this is pretty much correct:

 -

The Republican Party is the lessor of two evils.
It never ceases to amaze me how people like yourself will eagerly support your chosen party knowing full well that they are indeed evil...

Evil is evil cash...there is no such thing as a lessor of two evils. BOTH PARTIES are owned by elitists that don't give a chit about you, yet you continue to support the one that makes you feel "less phucked over" than the other one...

Here's a news flash...YOU ARE STILL GETTING PHUCKED OVER!

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***********************

It's all in the timing...

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
I like how you classify them as "workers" and not employees.

seriously? you trying to make some strange point here? what is it? employers come from a different class of people than employees? anybody who employs people that don't work won't be an employer very long. so, employers are workers too

even CEO's are employees too... Running a company means you have as many bosses as you have customers and shareholders (assuming you are incorporated).... so yeah, Workers is an apropriate word, and should be interchangeable with employees in this sense. when i tisn't interchangable? you will be out of business real soon.

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buckstalker
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quote:
Originally posted by buckstalker:
quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
I like how you classify them as "workers" and not employees.

What do you "like" about it cash?
Can't answer the "hard" questions CCM?

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It's all in the timing...

Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
CashCowMoo
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Well Buck, it marginalizes them in my opinion. Now the whole class thing and talk gets old too. Why is the "working class" only to lower or middle income? Do people think that upper income people do not work? A lot of those upper income tax payers worked hard for decades to get where they are, and then they are slammed for it. Why is in in America people have to now defend their wealth and hard work? Its like the whole white guilt thing from the left, now its monetary guilt. Its ok to be rich if you are a movie star, sports player, etc, but if you are in business or a CEO...well that is a different story.

Buck, and some of you others, do you not recognize the massive tax breaks given to the "working class" (Earned Income Tax Credits, etc), middle class (mortgate interest deduction; tax-free education savings, etc.)?

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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glassman
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cash, you keep raising the same questions over and over that have been answered very completely over over and over.

admit it, you have no intentionof learning.

Earnbed inciome credits are there because the Govt ALREADY TOOK 1/3 of their paycheck from them the whole year.
on th eother hand? if you make over 50,000 perr year or so they took 1/4, and if you make over 100,000 or so they toook just under 1/4...

you are not interested in facts. you make that clear every time you post.

as to the issue of workers/ nice job of simply restating what i said, but offering it as the opposite ideal. workers get work done. they are not a class. you are the one trying to make it into a class struggle. you and your ultra-right mentally challenged parrots

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
Pagan
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And since glassman is too refined to say it...I will. Per your recent posts over the last month or two, you have shown your true colors. You are a racist pr*ck!

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It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

Posts: 3311 | From: St. Louis | Registered: Feb 2005  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
glassman
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the racists got ticked a fw years ago when they fianlly realised that society has left them behind and htey could no longer use opnely racially derogatory terms.. so a couple of the brightest racists got togetehr and came up with whole new vocabulary to communicate their twisted ideas with in public thinking th erest of us wouldn't get whathtey are really trying to say...

just shows that htey aren't really as bright as they think they are...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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