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glassman
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Let's get rid of:

The BATF. We can assign thier duties to Secret Service and FBI.

The DEA. The FBI can go after the Drug lords and the local cops can Taze all the users [Big Grin]

Caught with a bag of dope? Taze 'em and turn 'em loose. 2 or more bags? Taze 'em once for each bag and turn 'em loose. It'll save us a ton of money [Razz]

The DOE. They haven't done anything since they were created.

Homeland Security. That was the single largest Govt spending/growht package ever done. The FBI should be doing that too...

we can still have alphabet soup, but we really don't need any of them past about G [Good Luck]

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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Get rid of the SEC and the CFTC... put their role under DOJ and throw white collar crooks in jail instead of fining them and turning them back loose on us.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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T e x
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From what I can tell, the DEA (and FBI to a limited extent) has run as much dope as it busted.

Is CFTC the new Warren thing? If so, no--we need that.

The SEC/DOJ schizy relationship? I do *not* get that, except for what I noted about regulatory agencies in theory being more nimble than waiting on legislation to tell, in effect, unruly kids:

1) no, you can't write on the walls

2) no, you can't hammer on the fridge

3) no, you can't smear dog**** on your brother

4) no, you can't sell your father's liquor to nieghborhood kids...

5) no, you can't sell your brother's pot to your dad's friends

etc...

Just

phuking

BEhave

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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glassman
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Just

phuking

BEhave


Ok, but JUST don't Taze me Bro!

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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From what I can tell, the DEA (and FBI to a limited extent) has run as much dope as it busted.

i think it's even worse than that. I'm fairly confident that all large scale smuggling is "off the records taxed" and sanctioned. I would look into the Senate to bust that up but who is going to mess with the Senate?

The Mexican situation is not part of that *anymore*, and that's why the violence there got so bad in the last few years.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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CFTC:this is where all the real stealing is done in the US [Wink]

Congress created the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) in 1974 as an independent agency with the mandate to regulate commodity futures and option markets in the United States. The agency's mandate has been renewed and expanded several times since then, most recently by the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000.


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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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you know what's sad Tex? Our country has "just" (over 6-7 yrs) been robbed of well over a trillion dollars thanx to the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 and Gramm, Leach, Blilely, Clinton and Bush to name a few who are right on the top of the list,

and EVERYBODY

is arguing about it as if it was just politics.

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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T e x
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
From what I can tell, the DEA (and FBI to a limited extent) has run as much dope as it busted.

i think it's even worse than that. I'm fairly confident that all large scale smuggling is "off the records taxed" and sanctioned. I would look into the Senate to bust that up but who is going to mess with the Senate?

The Mexican situation is not part of that *anymore*, and that's why the violence there got so bad in the last few years.

Mexico: you see where a mob pounced on what they considered kidnappers?

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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T e x
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
you know what's sad Tex? Our country has "just" (over 6-7 yrs) been robbed of well over a trillion dollars thanx to the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000 and Gramm, Leach, Blilely, Clinton and Bush to name a few who are right on the top of the list,

and EVERYBODY

is arguing about it as if it was just politics.

You notice I inquire about that bill.

Ya, I suspect understanding of that cleavage point would, in turn, cleave the teaparty folk into something more understandable.

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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glassman
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OK, let's TRY to 'splain.

The TeaParty wants to blame the "poor" "subprime" slobs borrowing more than they can afford.

They aren't wrong. There were lots of people that borrowed what they should never have borrowed, that's a given.

BUT, who on earth loans money to someone they KNOW cannot pay it back?
NOBODY does that unless they need a tax write-off or they are money laundering (yeah that's one way to launder money and get a tax break be careful tho bigfoot er i mean big brother is watching). Let's assume this was an "honest mistake" and they weren't laundering money. Let's assume the lenders thought they were actually making an investment.

So that makes you ask why the lenders got stupid enough to not know that alot of people wouldnot and couldnot pay them back...

They weren't playing the pinksheets and the the OTC penny mkt. They were told by somebody that these were safe investments that would make great returns.

How could they be safe AND make great returns? That sounds too good to be true right? Well, it is. The creation of and the banning of regulation of credit default swaps is how:

A credit default swap (CDS) is a swap contract in which the protection buyer of the CDS makes a series of payments (often referred to as the CDS "fee" or "spread") to the protection seller and, in exchange, receives a payoff if a credit instrument (typically a bond or loan) experiences a credit event.

it's Insurance plain and simple. But it's not normal insurance;

The buyer of a CDS does not need to own the underlying security or other form of credit exposure; in fact the buyer does not even have to suffer a loss from the default event... to purchase insurance, the insured is expected to have an insurable interest such as owning a debt obligation;
The seller doesn't have to be a regulated entity;
the seller is not required to maintain any reserves to pay off buyers, (remember they outlawed ANY regulations like this)Even a Casino is not allowed to issue more chips than they have cash on hand....
Insurers manage risk primarily by setting loss reserves based on the Law of large numbers, while dealers in CDS manage risk primarily by means of offsetting CDS (hedging) with other dealers and transactions in underlying bond markets.
CDS contracts are generally subject to mark-to-market accounting, introducing income statement and balance sheet volatility that would not be present in an insurance contract...

As best i can tell? many of these hedge funds that were associated with the brokerages were selling CDSes that failed or had a credit event. This means that they "insured" the mortgage loans in huge packages or bundles for 5 basis points of the value of the bundle. 10 million in mortgages would equal a paymnet $50,000 per year. When they began to realise they were going to be liable very soon for paying 1 million dollars or more, maybe even much more after they had only charged 50 grand to "insure" the bundle, they tried to sell NEW CDSes to OTHER people on the same exact mortgage bundle so that they could cover their losses. Heck why not sell THREE on the same on that you are pretty sure is getting ready to fail? Then you can make some money of this bad deal anyway. The problem is that people begin to figure out that a couple of their friends got screwed this way and the price of CDSes goes crazy and unpredicable.

So these Investors on several phases of the trades of CDSes were able to package mortgages and resell them as Mortgage Backed Securities and sell them to other investors as safely insured with good return. Pension funds even bought them.

Well, when they sell the mortgage bundles as safe and with great looking projected return? They have cash to go loan again. Which they do. Then they repeat endlessly.
That's how investors got "tricked" into buying risky mortgage instruments thinking they were much safer than they were. That's why the mortgage brokers were writing liars loans, because they had this CDS to "insure" them with...AND as an added bonus? The mortgage broker could collect a healthy fee by getting subprimes that can be charged double in FEES and much higher interest rates too... The mortgage broker is done with deal right after he files all the paperwork at settlement and collects his check.Thye go on to be bundled.

When a company/hedge fund/broker can sell credit default swap 100 million in mortgages? They are making 500,000$ for doing NOTHING! As long as the instrument doesn't have a credit event....

It's very clear now that most of these people beleived they were being given money for nothing because they subscribe to bond rating agencies who tell them the "quality" of the instruments, and they all rubberstamped them all AAA


AIG sold so many swaps we had to bail them to protect the company. I know that's what bankruptcy is for, but little old ladies who had put their money into their plans for their whole life would lose everything [Frown]
AIG being dissolved would have been very detrimental to alot of other buinesses too. Apparnetly it a pretty long list of who's whose.

EW YORK (MarketWatch) -- American International Group revealed on Sunday details of $105 billion of government funds that it paid to U.S. and international banks including Goldman Sachs, Deutsche Bank and Societe Generale.

The cash paid to AIG's so-called counterparties was used to cover collateral payments, cancel derivatives contracts and meet obligations at its securities lending business.

The largest recipient of these payouts was France's Societe Generale, which received $4.1 billion, while Germany's Deutsche Bank received $2.6 billion and Goldman Sachs took $2.5 billion. Merrill Lynch and Bank of America got, between them, $2 billion.

Over the same period, the insurer paid $43.7 billion to securities lending counterparties. Chief among these was U.K.-based Barclays PLC /quotes/comstock/13*!bcs/quotes/nls/bcs (BCS 18.80, -0.20, -1.05%) , which received $7 billion. Deutsche Bank got $6.4 billion, as did the combination of Bank of America and Merrill Lynch.

Another $27.1 billion went for payouts made to cancel some CDS contracts. The top recipients of these monies were Societe Generale and Goldman Sachs, who received $6.9 billion and $5.6 billion, respectively. See AIG's disclosures in full.


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/aig-details-105-billion-payouts-banks

now, those banks losing those figures would have triggered a whole new round of losses to tehm because Banks use the "insured" collateral to borrow even more money to lend out and losing that money would have severely restricted their ability to raise funds. It could also have casued them to be in default on even other existing obligatins forcing them to try to sell the things on open market that were perceived to be flawed.... In fact? Few would buy or sell the CDSes or the mortgage intrumnts unless they had to because nobody would pay much an if you looked suspicious they'd pay even less, Pretty soon? Everything looked suspicious and nobody would trade anything.

That is how deregulation is at eh very root of the Great Recession. It could not have been done without the unRegulated CDSES. There would not have been nearly as much money to take to the subprime market,and it would have been more risky to hold without a CDS, so they sold to to otehrs that had no idea they even subprime.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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CashCowMoo
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Glass you still think credit default swaps are running rampant? Funny government agency satire. You all know the talent is in private business, not government.

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
Glass you still think credit default swaps are running rampant? Funny government agency satire. You all know the talent is in private business, not government.

"still"? i didn't say still rampant. You think what they did isn't still affecting the market? Sorry there's millions (3 or 4) of empty home the banks haven't even begun to foreclose on because they already have too many in foreclosure.

I grew up inside the Beltway and i know the quality of talent in the Govt. I also know the quality of talent in the Govt Contractors. You underestimate the level of talent in Govt. Are they wasteful? You bet. Does the culture in Govt need to change? You bet. But the overall Govt workforce is paid higher then the average workforce because they are better educated The Govt doesn't attract too many millionaire wannabes, esp honest ones, but they do attract the most qualified employees for the positions they need filled. Private pays less to employees for the same jobs, but the boss keeps a huge differnce.

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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CashCowMoo
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Glass, I do not agree with that. There is a certain mentality when being a bureaucrat. Kind of like the mentality to be a cop, but this time in charge of other peoples lives and money.

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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buckstalker
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I have a few more I believe we should get rid of:

The President & Vice President
All members of the House
All members of the Senate
All members of the Supreme Court

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***********************

It's all in the timing...

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CashCowMoo
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Thats all Buck? Buck NASTAY!

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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jordanreed
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I think its so funny that politicians say we should reduce the size of government..

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jordan

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CashCowMoo
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I bet you do Jordan, I bet you do....

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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jordanreed
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cuz politicians are the govment!!,,get it??

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jordan

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CashCowMoo
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Sure man, whatever you say.

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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jordanreed
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kinda hip when you insert that "MAN" into your phrasing.....lol....youngsters trying to maintain...

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jordan

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CashCowMoo
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Jordan you do great in movies!

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm692754432/tt0073486

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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jordanreed
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great film...have you watched it with an open mind?

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jordan

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
G You all know the talent is in private business, not government.

LOL.. so the bureacrat mentality is to blame?

Cash, our economy was raped and pillaged by hte private sector, and all the people blaming the Govt are clueless.
The Govt merely did the bidding of the private Wall St types that did it, and htey did it on purpose, and they KNEW they would be bailed out because unemployment would have hit much higher then it did in the Gret Depression.
Heck, with the bailouts the real unemploymnet is almost 20%.

between the 29' crash and 1933? ten thousand banks failed. We could not allow that to happen again so we had to have thebailouts.

 -

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
Glass, I do not agree with that. There is a certain mentality when being a bureaucrat. Kind of like the mentality to be a cop, but this time in charge of other peoples lives and money.

sorry cash, but i have swum with the real sharks, i used to contrtacr with banks to do repo work. and they are in charge of other peoples lives too and very much more stuck up than the Govt bureacrats.

Wait till you go to borrow some real money. They will break out the rubber glove and check you out all over and you will thank them for using lube [Wink]

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
G You all know the talent is in private business, not government.

LOL.. so the bureacrat mentality is to blame?

Cash, our economy was raped and pillaged by hte private sector, and all the people blaming the Govt are clueless.
The Govt merely did the bidding of the private Wall St types that did it, and htey did it on purpose, and they KNEW they would be bailed out because unemployment would have hit much higher then it did in the Gret Depression.
Heck, with the bailouts the real unemploymnet is almost 20%.

between the 29' crash and 1933? ten thousand banks failed. We could not allow that to happen again so we had to have thebailouts.

 -

Yes Glass I know the private sector had its way with everyones money, but government allowed them too. The first credit default swaps were offered in 1997, and they said by 2007 the CDF market was around 62 or 65 trillion.


Private sector couldnt have done it without the "gubbment"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_Futures_Modernization_Act_of_2000

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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Ric
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quote:
Originally posted by buckstalker:
I have a few more I believe we should get rid of:

The President & Vice President
All members of the House
All members of the Senate
All members of the Supreme Court

We really can't blame these people because we keep putting them in. It seems that every district people either say it isn't my representative it's the other guys or it is that we are to lazy to research and just vote the same way each time. If we keep being stupid and electing the same people over and over in a broke system then it isn't their fault.

Still have never figured out how Bush got elected a second term. Now that shows how stupid we are.

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Invest with your brain not with your heart.

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Ric
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One of the problems with elections is the primaries. The middle of the road person really has no voice. Independents and people who are still unsure(not bright) people tend not to vote in primaries. So you end up with extremists making the choices. So you end up with a candidate that is way to far to the right or left. Then who do you vote for in the end when you are a rational person wanting someone that fits both sides of your moralities. Someone that is both economically responsible and socially responsible.

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Invest with your brain not with your heart.

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buckstalker
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quote:
Originally posted by Ric:

We really can't blame these people because we keep putting them in. If we keep being stupid and electing the same people over and over in a broke system then it isn't their fault.



I agree for the most part...we have a failed political system to begin with, we have the ignorant masses that continue to believe that "their" party is looking out for them, and we have corporations that are really calling the shots.

Where I disagree is NOT putting any of the blame on the politicians that are elected to serve the people...MOST of them are nothing more than con artists with little to no integrity...

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***********************

It's all in the timing...

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T e x
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quote:
Originally posted by Ric:
quote:
Originally posted by buckstalker:
I have a few more I believe we should get rid of:

The President & Vice President
All members of the House
All members of the Senate
All members of the Supreme Court

We really can't blame these people because we keep putting them in. It seems that every district people either say it isn't my representative it's the other guys or it is that we are to lazy to research and just vote the same way each time. If we keep being stupid and electing the same people over and over in a broke system then it isn't their fault.

Still have never figured out how Bush got elected a second term. Now that shows how stupid we are.

Boy, howdy...not me--I got two of the biggest losers in the country for Senators.

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Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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Ric
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I agree that they are con-artist and thieves. I was just pointing out if we leave a hundred dollar bill on our font porch on a busy street, the person that took is still a thief but who is at fault for it being taken. We know in our hearts these people are crooks but we keep electing them to office. And your right, it is mainly because we worry more about party lines then the person. I will bet that over half the people that vote in the upcoming election will open the voting curtain and vote party lines without even knowing the candidates.

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Invest with your brain not with your heart.

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buckstalker
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THEY are all con artists and thieves and THEY control who the candidates are that you get to choose from...which are also con artists and thieves...

That is why I don't vote anymore...I will not have any part of electing any more "insiders" into public office

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***********************

It's all in the timing...

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Ric:
I agree that they are con-artist and thieves. I was just pointing out if we leave a hundred dollar bill on our font porch on a busy street, the person that took is still a thief but who is at fault for it being taken. We know in our hearts these people are crooks but we keep electing them to office. And your right, it is mainly because we worry more about party lines then the person. I will bet that over half the people that vote in the upcoming election will open the voting curtain and vote party lines without even knowing the candidates.

i just had this conversation with Jr. they have a theif on the HS football team. He wants/gets 30 dollar underwear and some MF steals it cuz he didn't lock his locker. Tole 'im it's his fault...

who friggin steals underwear? future polticians do [Big Grin]

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
   

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