posted
KOENIGSWINTER, Germany – With the fight against global warming in serious trouble, Germany and Mexico are calling on world leaders to get international negotiations back on track and reach concrete results by the end of the year.
"We need to show the world how serious the threat is," Mexican President Felipe Calderon said as he opened an international climate change conference in Germany on Sunday.
German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who also spoke at the opening of the conference co-hosted by both countries and aimed at laying the groundwork for the next U.N. conference on climate change, asked nations around the world for more ambition in their efforts to cut greenhouse gases.
While scientists believe global temperatures must not rise by more than 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) compared to pre-industrial times, the world is now headed for a 3 to 4 degree increase, Merkel said.
"We have to realize that we have quite a long way to go to reach the 2-degree-goal," Merkel said. "Therefore we have to ascertain how we can reach our goals nonetheless."
Mexico will host the next U.N. conference on climate change in Cancun in December, the first such high-level summit after the troubled U.N. conference in Copenhagen five months ago.
Germany has long presented itself as a driving force in the international efforts to curb global warming and came up with the idea of a "mid-term" meeting.
Both countries invited ministers and representatives from around 45 countries for informal talks on the Petersberg up above Koenigswinter.
The three-day conference called the Petersberg Dialogue hopes to make some progress on details, but most of all build trust between poor and rich nations, Calderon said.
He said the conference could produce a "clear message, this will be the signal whether it will be possible to reach a uniform agreement."
Nations around the world agreed in 2007 to negotiate a new international treaty to fight global warming which scientists say has already started to cause some alarming changes such as droughts, flooding or heavier storms.
A treaty was originally hoped for in Copenhagen, but that meeting produced less than expected.
President Barack Obama and a few dozen other major players drafted the so-called Copenhagen Accord, which includes the 2-degree-goal and an immediate $30 billion three-year aid package for poorer nations.
However, the accord failed to gain full support at the summit, as some smaller countries felt left out in the process and were unhappy with the results of closed-door negotiations.
German Environment Minister Norbert Roettgen said the Petersberg meeting is designed to work intensely on some sticking points and to build trust among those who eventually have to work with each other on the U.N. level.
To have something to show for even while the negotiating is going on, nations should agree on concrete projects to curb greenhouse gas emissions or to adapt to climate change, he said.
Calderon and Merkel said one of the areas that could see some progress in Cancun was the fight against deforestation.
Mexico's president stressed that saving forests could help fight poverty at the same time as it would give residents an income.
Since Copenhagen, momentum in the drive to control global warming has slowed in some countries. The U.S. has not tackled its domestic energy bill; and Australia — one of the world's biggest per capita polluters — put off for as long as two years legislation setting up carbon trading.
Roettgen has said his country and others have not given up on striking a deal at the U.N. climate summit in Cancun Nov. 29-Dec. 10.
Posts: 2634 | From: The highway | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:President Barack Obama and a few dozen other major players drafted the so-called Copenhagen Accord, which includes the 2-degree-goal and an immediate $30 billion three-year aid package for poorer nations.
PLEASE...make the money grubbing go away...please...
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All these global warming summits are just rich fancy parties. The finest foods, the most expensive luxuries, private jets, and then they tell everyone how much money they need to get in order to save the planet.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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posted
anybody see how much rain fell in Tenn. over the weekend?
Nashville had class 2 rapids in hteir streets for a few hours yesterday, homes were floating in the roads...
yeah there's nothing going on... nothing at all...
three feet of snow in DC doesn't prove there's no global warming, it does just the opposite- when you look below the equator to summer in Australia in the same time frame and find they had 98 degree overnight lows.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Iceland Volcano Causing Travel Nightmare Once Again
Iceland Volcano Causing Travel Nightmare Once Again
Forecasters warned that the rapidly spreading cloud of ash from Iceland's Eyjafjallajokul volcano was projected to reach southern Greenland and the northwest tip of Spain by Saturday.
BRUSSELS -- Most flights between Europe and North America will be delayed on Saturday due to the spreading cloud of volcanic ash stretching across much of the northern Atlantic, the European flight control agency said.
Flights will have to be rerouted north over Greenland or south over Spain to avoid the 1,200-miles-long cloud stretching from Iceland to northern Spain, Eurocontrol said. This will increase flying times by about an hour in either direction.
"We assume that basically most of the trans-Atlantic flights will have to be rerouted on Saturday," Eurocontrol spokeswoman Kyla Evans said. "We expect substantial delays because of that."
Approximately 600 airliners make the oceanic crossing every day. Around 40 percent will be rerouted southward and the rest will skirt Iceland from the north.
The plume of ash, which also forced the closure of half-a-dozen regional airports in northern Spain on Saturday, is expected to expand into southern France during the day, carried along by Atlantic winds. Spain's main international airports of Madrid and Barcelona were expected to remain open.
"During the day, the area affected by volcanic ash is expected to extend from Iceland, south to Portugal and possibly as far east as Barcelona and Marseille," a Eurocontrol advisory said.
Until Eyjafjallajokul, the volcano in southern Iceland, stops its emissions, the key to the future course of Europe's ash crisis will be the prevailing winds. The eruption of the glacier-capped volcano has shown no signs of stopping since it began belching ash April 13. It last erupted from 1821 to 1823.
Since the ash is reaching altitudes of up to 35,000 feet, right in the path of most trans-Atlantic flights, it will effectively block the usual routes. Eurocontrol said this would cause significant congestion, particularly in the airspace over Spain and Portugal where many of the diverted flights are heading.
A trans-Atlantic flight from New York to Paris, which is normally about 3,600 miles long, could add on another 600 miles -- and an hour of flying time -- by being diverted over the Iberian Peninsula.
Tracks across the Atlantic normally follow "great circles" -- the shortest path between two points on the globe. They are determined each day by air traffic control centers on both sides of the Atlantic, generally depending on the jet stream from North America to Europe.
Planes flying the track system typically follow each other in 10-minute intervals and at altitude levels 1,000 feet apart, in order to maintain safety in airspace which is beyond the range of radar control.
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I know, I kept saying the left is going to have a hard time trying to prove the bush administration caused the volcano eruption. I wonder if they can accurately estimate how many tons of pollutants and particles are blasted into the ozone.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: anybody see how much rain fell in Tenn. over the weekend?
Nashville had class 2 rapids in hteir streets for a few hours yesterday, homes were floating in the roads...
yeah there's nothing going on... nothing at all...
three feet of snow in DC doesn't prove there's no global warming, it does just the opposite- when you look below the equator to summer in Australia in the same time frame and find they had 98 degree overnight lows.
It's never been hot in Australia? Never snowed in DC before?
I'll tell you what this does prove. And I for one think we DO need to put a stop to it. "Seasons" A vicious enemy. Yes I say we abolish this threat to life on this planet and the people that cause them. These... "Seasons" don't just happen... no no... they are the result of the exuded evil of HUMANS. We need global legislation to deal with this threat as it is a danger to the whole globe... Now I'm not looking for any laws with teeth that actually strike at the core cause. No, instead I truly believe we need more taxes. Taxes paid to the unnamed and unknown will solve the problem and we can get back to beautiful nature where nothing ever changes.
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: [It's never been hot in Australia? Never snowed in DC before?
uh, i think you missed my point. the snow in DC was offered as proof there is no global warming by every Family Values radio talk show host south of the Mason Dixon line all day every day all winter. They are the ones that couldn't be bothered to look below the equator to see the temps averaging out.
now, i know you think Gov Huckabee and Gov Barbour are both smarter than a hundred Phd.s each, but the fact is, we are either the top of the food chain, masters of our own destiny and have been Granted BY GOD the right to do with the earth as we please, or we aren't. When Judgemnet Day fianlly rolls around, nobody is going to check your credit score, which is actually just a CIA invention to keep track of us
you choose whether you are in control of your and our destiny, or you choose to be a victim. i know my choice already
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: [It's never been hot in Australia? Never snowed in DC before?
uh, i think you missed my point. the snow in DC was offered as proof there is no global warming by every Family Values radio talk show host south of the Mason Dixon line all day every day all winter. They are the ones that couldn't be bothered to look below the equator to see the temps averaging out.
now, i know you think Gov Huckabee and Gov Barbour are both smarter than a hundred Phd.s each, but the fact is, we are either the top of the food chain, masters of our own destiny and have been Granted BY GOD the right to do with the earth as we please, or we aren't. When Judgemnet Day fianlly rolls around, nobody is going to check your credit score, which is actually just a CIA invention to keep track of us
you choose whether you are in control of your and our destiny, or you choose to be a victim. i know my choice already
Glass, you think the CIA set up FICO scores?
Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: [It's never been hot in Australia? Never snowed in DC before?
uh, i think you missed my point. the snow in DC was offered as proof there is no global warming by every Family Values radio talk show host south of the Mason Dixon line all day every day all winter. They are the ones that couldn't be bothered to look below the equator to see the temps averaging out.
now, i know you think Gov Huckabee and Gov Barbour are both smarter than a hundred Phd.s each, but the fact is, we are either the top of the food chain, masters of our own destiny and have been Granted BY GOD the right to do with the earth as we please, or we aren't. When Judgemnet Day fianlly rolls around, nobody is going to check your credit score, which is actually just a CIA invention to keep track of us
you choose whether you are in control of your and our destiny, or you choose to be a victim. i know my choice already
I'm going to employ every morsel of will power I have to act like your latest post on this thread even hints at making either sense or a point. In so doing I will respond by asking: So "Right Wing" morons are stupid, so that means you have to take the inverse of their stance no matter the inaccuracy?
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
i have never said i am completley convinced the earth is warming due to man made CO2.
what i have said is that we are becoming ever more likely to be the last straw on the camels back. the other straws being deforestation, pollution of wetlands a few volcanoes, or another underwater landslide that disrupts methane hydrate deposits on a large scale.
are we lemmings running at breakneck speed to the cliff with full intent? you know what? even the lemming story is a big lie created by walt disney that teachers still tell their students... there's no lemming migration- there's NO lemming migration! Its all damn lies.
the tree ring guys didn't hide the DECLINE! they hid the fact that tree rings don't give you accurate temerature data at all.. the decline was not there when the tree rings said they should be... hence they are not reliable measuring tools which anybody who actually read the paper knew! It was the media reporters who didn't read the paper they just wrote whatever story sounded good at the moment! They did it to sell ad space for businesses that want us consumers to shoulder the real cost the products they produce, that's how business works right? The profit comes from soemwhere. We consumers will pay for the BP oil spill.
who are the mythmakers? the media hypes? the right wing talk show hosts or the Phd's? I think i'll have to trust the guys that have given us the root data for every single scientific advance we have ever had, including the largest energy consuming products we have....
what has Rush limbugger or the Family values Radio Network given US besides advertising? i never beleive an advertisement anyway i teach my kids not to and i bet you do too...
you cannot disagree with me when i say we treat our world with extreme disrespect in the name of profit. it's just simple factual observation that you cannot avoid unless you want to. If i or soebody else points and says that's dirty? We aren't doing it to make you feel bad, we are doing it to change behaviour. We need to change our behviour on a planetary scale. We need to do it now.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Glass, you think the CIA set up FICO scores? [/QB]
Yes indeed. Be glad they did, it has been a very effective seccurity system. They created the modern credit reporting system that we have today. it's not the score they created, but the way the score is developed. And it is a masterful way to keep track of people, just follow the money with lots of big giant computer systems run with and monitored by other big computer systems
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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Nescorp is the parent co of Fox News. Newscorp is the primary owner of most of the so-called conservative news sources in the US...
newscorp is 5% owned by the Saudi Royal family. which is a significant ownership interst. I have to laugh when all the rightwing Christians that listen to Fox News as the font of all knowledge go on about how the Muslims who own their beloved fountain are out to take over the world. Or how they complain about the anti-oil "liberals" that Fox told them are just commies who want to make us all pay more for oil when the owners of Fox definitely want us to keep (only) using and paying for oil. sheesh... i was wrong, the Sheik added 2% more recently to bring it to 7%... LOL... does this compute for you now?
News Corporation (NASDAQ: NWS,NASDAQ: NWSA,ASX: NWS,ASX: NWSLV), often abbreviated to News Corp., is the world's second-largest media conglomerate (behind The Walt Disney Company) as of 2008 and the world's third largest in entertainment as of 2009 [5][6][7][8]. The company's Chairman, Chief Executive Officer and Founder is Rupert Murdoch.
News Corporation is a publicly-traded company listed on the NASDAQ, with secondary listings on the Australian Securities Exchange. Formerly incorporated in South Australia, the company was re-incorporated into Delaware General Corporation Law after a majority of shareholders approved the move on November 12, 2004.
* In August 2005 the Murdoch family owned only about 29% of the company. However, nearly all of these shares were voting shares, and Rupert Murdoch retained effective control of the company. Nonetheless, John Malone of Liberty Media had built up a large stake, with about half of the shares being voting shares. Therefore, in November 2006, News Corporation announced its intention to transfer its 38.5 per cent managing interest in DirecTV Group to John Malone's Liberty Media; in return it bought back Liberty's 16.3% shares in News Corp., giving Murdoch tighter control of the latter firm.[18] Murdoch sold 17.5 million class A shares in December 2007.[19]
* Prince Alwaleed bin Talal al-Saud of Saudi Arabia, through his Kingdom Holding Company, owns 7% of News Corp.'s shares, making Kingdom Holdings the second largest shareholder.[20][21][22]
* Years after when Elektra Records was absorbed in 2004, News Corporation owned half of the re-issues from the record label company.
Glen Beck and Sean Hannity both work for the Saudi Royal Family. So did Dubya.
how um patriotic?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
The bit about credit rating is right... It's our standing within "The Corporation"
You are so eager to believe "scientists" when common sense and logic are, in this case, their foes. Nothing about this global warming crap stands up to even the simplest of gut checks.
The idea that governments would use this plight to fashion a nameless enemy to the world in order to introduce more government is just too darned simple for it not to be the case. We can easily look at temperature records for millions of years. We can see, clearly, that we are in no danger.
It's a scam, Glass
Those on the "Right" are no different than those on the "Left". They are simply playing their parts.
Now you might have once been sided... You're now angry because that "Side" didn't live up to your expectations...
It's your fault for having those expectations..
Just as it was mine.
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
no it's not clearly a scam to scientists, you should try reading a few papers that scientists actually write. The tree rings guys clearly wrote down the fact that they lost their dataset "cohesion"- the media didn't bother with that detail until it was sensatioanlly hacked, but it was in the original publication and 'splained
it's clearly a scam when you involve the advertisers and their minions.
Walt Disney is the world leader in advertising and the leemings lies are their product, which was my point.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
see this? you were right when you said the Gulf is not yet a major accident, we don't know if it can be stopped tho..
this is not global warming, but it is easy to see...
SANTOS'S financial exposure to the devastating mud blowout at the Banjar Panji exploration well in Indonesia has taken the shine off the group's 28 per cent increase in June half-year profit to a record $369.5 million.
The boom result was driven by rising production and sharply higher oil prices and would have been higher still had there not been the need to make a $19.2 million after-tax provision for Santos's 18 per cent share of remediation costs at the East Java well site.
The initial remediation cost has been estimated at $US100 million ($131.2 million) but it remains unclear if the joint venture partners will have any liability. Santos nevertheless felt it prudent to make the provision at balance date while its actual exposure and insurance coverage is worked out.
Santos said the actual amount that could be required for remediation work and related costs would be reviewed as further information came to light. Mud continues to flow from the well.
hey it's just part of exploration, i know that, but it is still "dirty" and it costs alot moeny to to go thru the motions of fixing it. we all know the spill are never cleaned completlely and life goes on differnt, but it still goes...
the problem i see is that we only pretend these costs are bearable and clean energy costs are too high, when th ereality is that we don't REALLY clean this crap up right and return to pristinity (hey i just invented a new word) the reality is we pretend we did good and cut costs to keep profits flowing and the consumer will pay anyway... i'm not damning the system i'm saying we can do better and the liberals may blow the science out of proportion to get change... so be it, it's better than sticking your head in the oil soaked sand, why don't the conservatives want to Conserve anything but the profit?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:and the liberals may blow the science out of proportion to get change... so be it,
Glass, a lie is a lie...no matter the 'well meaningness' (see, yet another new word in this thread) behind it. Until the right stops denying what science DOES actually tell us, and the left stops making sh!t up out of what the science DOES actually tell us, we will get nowhere.
Fact is that the only thing that science DOES actually tell us is that climate change exists, has existed, and will continue to exist. What man contributes to such change is so insignificant as to be laughable when the greenies claim that we are the main cause of such change while dismissing any natural causes.
One, single large scale volcanic eruption and good ole' Mother Earth just dumped more CO2 and other harmful 'greenhouse gasses' into the atmosphere than everything man has ever done...
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What man contributes to such change is so insignificant as to be laughable when the greenies claim that we are the main cause of such change while dismissing any natural causes.
you are speaking of politics tho, might as well ask a politician to come out and tell us that we need to raise taxes on everybody...
i'm defending the scientific position that we are taking the carbons built up from millions of years of plant and animal products out of the ground and converting it to gas and then pumping it into our atmosphere in a couple of hundred years..
my gut tells me this cannot be good.
so the volcano added to it too
from the article Volcanoes release more than 130 million tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere every year
so we keep adding at our steady pace for another century, and then what? we disrupted the balance.
i voted against Clinton and then Gore 3 times....
i was banging the drum for a Manhattan project to get us off oil the day after 9-11.
the scientific papers i have read all carry very well documented claims, the people that present the hype are not the scientists. The main body of scientists have pointedly stated they hold an opinion that man-made greenhouse gasses CONTRIBUTE to global warming, they are not saying we have caused gloabl climate change. The media reports however they want to. Have you ever given an interview and then read it? I have, they get stuff wrong even when they take notes
look:
Man-Made Climatic Changes Man's activities have altered the climate of urbanized areas and may affect global climate in the future Helmut E. Landsberg 1
this is a real paper and it's true, if you live in or near a big city that is not in the North? you will see snow turn to rain when it hits the city edges, it may stay that way for several hours
scientists are not aploitical, they make statements outside of the paers that are their opinions just like anybody else, but if your ead papers with some discrimination to word choices and presentation characteristics? you will find that scientists follow the peer reviewing protocols that have served science well for decades now.
Perr review? Thats political too always has been. You make an enemy? You do not send your paper to any journals they are editirs for, and th emore editor jobs you have the more "prestigious" you are...
Albert Einsein was balckballed by his own professor. He had to take a job at the patent office to live while developed his theories for publication without any universtiy support. He later said that it may have been good for him, but we'll never know if he had been hanging witht he right crowd at the right time? he may also have delivered the unified theory right at the outset
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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when you find scientific paers "debunking" man-made climate change they are almost always GEOLOGISTS who work for oil co's... read the wording CAREFULLY:
Global surface temperature increased 0.74 ± 0.18 °C (1.33 ± 0.32 °F) between the start and the end of the 20th century.[2][A] The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) concludes that most of the observed temperature increase since the middle of the 20th century was very likely caused by increasing concentrations of greenhouse gases resulting from human activity such as fossil fuel burning and deforestation.[2] The IPCC also concludes that variations in natural phenomena such as solar radiation and volcanic eruptions had a small cooling effect after 1950.[3][4] These basic conclusions have been endorsed by more than 40 scientific societies and academies of science, including all of the national academies of science of the major industrialized countries.[5]
they are not claiming they have proved anything-
Volcanoes release more than 130 million tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere every year
in the US alone we produce almost 20 metric tonnes per person per year (19.3 actually).
20 times 320 million is the US yearly production
6000 million metric tons is a wee little bit more than all the volcanoes produce ain't it?
we account for about 1/4 of the world production, so the world human CO2 production is 4 times that amount... now double the world population again in twenty years? you see what the math does?
now consider we actually remove plants that capture alot of the CO2 too...
mangrove swamps are apparently one of the greatest carbon capturing "things" on the planet and we dike and drain lots of them for beach front communities etc...
the scientists are able to take all the data put iton apsreadsheet and statitistically analyze it, sure stistics ae just lies, but there's gut truth underneath all that and we know what's happening
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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