posted
Seems to be the lAST thing they want to do!
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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Don't concern your self now. the debt is so massive and the economy so weak that we are not getting out of this. This is just my opinion.
Corperate welfare will not end and many very smart economist are starting to say we will be living with 10% unemployment for at least 3 years. What that means not only payroll tax revenue goes down,also sales tax and property tax revenue goes down to. sales tax and property tax is what states live on and there are some giant states like California that are closing down. Looks like the feds will not be able to help much this time. The only thing that can save us is jobs for people to the point of a 3% unemployment rate. and get the banks loaning money again. Sounds simple but a hard task to do.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
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posted
Oh, I'm sure Team Obama would *love* to be able to deliver a Clintonesque budget surplus. Unfortunately, when Clinton signed Gramm's bill de-regging commodities...well, let's just say the Law of Unintended Consequences took over.
You know this health care bill stinks. They dont even know what they are signing, and I dont think Obama even knows what is in the health care bill for sure. All it seems the Dems want is to slam a health care bill down our throughts for their leader because he told them to do so. Walk the plank for Obama it seems!
Is Obama going to post the health care bill online for us to read like he promised before he signs it?
Is there any other time in the history of the country where the governemnt has forced us to buy anything?
Is this the change you all wanted!?
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so. Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Is there any other time in the history of the country where the governemnt has forced us to buy anything?
Car insurance Drivers License Hunting License Fishing License Business License etc etc etc
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. Posts: 3311 | From: St. Louis | Registered: Feb 2005
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the Bush "health care bill" was no different. it gave trillions of medicare dollars to drug co's.
the bush tax cuts never delivered more jobs as promised. in fact? we have 10% unemployment as result of the Bush doctrine.
in a few weeks Obama will own this economy. keep in mind that Bush supporters blamed Clinton for 9-11 even as he was still leaving office.
the health care bill is a mess, but allow me to make one point. Just a few Republicans in the Senate say 4 or 5 could have cooperated and made it what they wanted it to be. They would have been able to force the Dems to accpet their terms with little to no problem.
instead, their plan is to leave it completely to the Demnocrats.
now, look back at the creation of Medicare. The same basic thing happened then, after many attempts. Johnson finally sgined completed legislation in 1965. Now? You would have town hall meetings with buckets of blood if you took it away. Or even tried.
The way this is going? IMO the Dems will get it passed and it will be messy as hell, but over time it will be worked out.
As for spending? i can show you the charts (have before) that prove GOP's are historically bigger deficit spenders than Dems. Sure people like to say that the GOPs prime the pump so the Dems get the benefit of their policies in the next few years, but this time? the pumps ran dry and the seals were burned out.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Is there any other time in the history of the country where the governemnt has forced us to buy anything?
Car insurance Drivers License Hunting License Fishing License Business License etc etc etc
Think about it Pagan, does the house want to penalize you financially for not buying car insurance each year? Is anyone forcing you to buy car insurance if you dont want it?
Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Is there any other time in the history of the country where the governemnt has forced us to buy anything?
Car insurance Drivers License Hunting License Fishing License Business License etc etc etc
Think about it Pagan, does the house want to penalize you financially for not buying car insurance each year? Is anyone forcing you to buy car insurance if you dont want it?
Guess you've not heard of the "Financial Responsibility Law" pertaining to vehicles. Get caught driving with no insurance means tickets, fines, license suspension. Yea...it's forced on you moocow. Sure you can try and drive without insurance...but you run the risk of getting caught and facing the afforementioned penalties.
Heck, you can't even register a car or get a license tag/plate without proof of insurance.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. Posts: 3311 | From: St. Louis | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Is there any other time in the history of the country where the governemnt has forced us to buy anything?
Car insurance Drivers License Hunting License Fishing License Business License etc etc etc
Think about it Pagan, does the house want to penalize you financially for not buying car insurance each year? Is anyone forcing you to buy car insurance if you dont want it?
Guess you've not heard of the "Financial Responsibility Law" pertaining to vehicles. Get caught driving with no insurance means tickets, fines, license suspension. Yea...it's forced on you moocow. Sure you can try and drive without insurance...but you run the risk of getting caught and facing the afforementioned penalties.
Heck, you can't even register a car or get a license tag/plate without proof of insurance.
But Pagan are you going to be charged by the govt and risk going to jail for not doing so if you dont buy car insurace? what if you dont buy a car? what if you bike and dont need it? What if someone doesnt want insurance and they are 24 years old? Dont you get it? You dont, and thats why you have other flawed views about how this administration is just going to fix everything nice and we will all hold hands.
Posts: 6949 | Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Is there any other time in the history of the country where the governemnt has forced us to buy anything?
Car insurance Drivers License Hunting License Fishing License Business License etc etc etc
Think about it Pagan, does the house want to penalize you financially for not buying car insurance each year? Is anyone forcing you to buy car insurance if you dont want it?
Guess you've not heard of the "Financial Responsibility Law" pertaining to vehicles. Get caught driving with no insurance means tickets, fines, license suspension. Yea...it's forced on you moocow. Sure you can try and drive without insurance...but you run the risk of getting caught and facing the afforementioned penalties.
Heck, you can't even register a car or get a license tag/plate without proof of insurance.
But Pagan are you going to be charged by the govt and risk going to jail for not doing so if you dont buy car insurace? what if you dont buy a car? what if you bike and dont need it? What if someone doesnt want insurance and they are 24 years old? Dont you get it? You dont, and thats why you have other flawed views about how this administration is just going to fix everything nice and we will all hold hands.
-------------------- It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious. Posts: 3311 | From: St. Louis | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
Glassman, with this statement you just explained why people are against the government's total control of something.
"now, look back at the creation of Medicare. The same basic thing happened then, after many attempts. Johnson finally sgined completed legislation in 1965. Now? You would have town hall meetings with buckets of blood if you took it away. Or even tried."
The politicans want us completely dependent upon government services, it's all about control. Thank you for summing this up in one paragraph you have been very enlightening.
-------------------- Let's Go METS!!! Posts: 3317 | From: CT | Registered: Dec 2006
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Of course it's all about government control...
What irks me the most are the simpletons that are happily willing to give up more of their freedoms, and that they actually cheer for the politicians that are trying to take those freedoms from us...
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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quote:Originally posted by Lockman: Glassman, with this statement you just explained why people are against the government's total control of something.
"now, look back at the creation of Medicare. The same basic thing happened then, after many attempts. Johnson finally sgined completed legislation in 1965. Now? You would have town hall meetings with buckets of blood if you took it away. Or even tried."
The politicans want us completely dependent upon government services, it's all about control. Thank you for summing this up in one paragraph you have been very enlightening.
and what is untrue about it?
95% of the teabaggers were complaining that the govt was going to take away medicare.
you say the govt wants to control you, i say almost everybody want to control everybody else. its the human condition.
why do advertisers pay so much money to advertise?
a Nascar team budget must be close to 20 million dollars now. yet we have 30 or so full time teams. it all about control, everywhere you go.
you have to choose who is goin' to be in control whether you like it or not.
corporate entities do not make for good bosses.
this ain't the 1700's anymore.
There is no more new new frontier buddy, their ideal of freedom then was to go stake a gold claim, start a ranch or to own a plantation that was in effect a small self-contained city-state...
the Feds won the Civil War. this ain't news.
the Native American Indians lived FREE! and look how that turned out.
remeber how the colonists dressed at the real Tea Party?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I think you missed the point, I agree no one wants to give up medicare,(of course under the new legislation it's gonna be deluted.)
The point is once the government establishes a program it is a never ending drag on the money supply.
As they establish this new Medicare program there will be a surplus and do you think it will be used to back up the program for a rainy day in the future or given back to those whom they robbed it from? NO way it will be wasted on endless pork projects just the way it is now.
I want a government that looks out for me, not at the front of the line bending me over.
Take the TARP program for instance, we we're told this would be used to rescue the banks and then be paid back w/interest and then used to pay down the defeict. It didn't take more than one day before it was being ear marked for pork projects and not for defecit reduction.
-------------------- Let's Go METS!!! Posts: 3317 | From: CT | Registered: Dec 2006
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posted
it is a never ending drag on the money supply.
this is the problem i have with tea-baggers.
the money doesn't disappear. it goes to doctors and hospitals etc who then turn around and pay their shareholders and/or spend it or re-invest it.
supply-side economics (Reaganomics) absolutely requires DEFICIT spending, and the sooner the conservatives get that thru their heads the sooner this country can begin to have realistic political dialoogue. that's why Bush gave so much cash to the drug co's in his drug bill. the real dialogue is-are you going to tax and spend or are you going to borrow and spend. forget the utopian idea that the govt will go away, it won't, and you don't want it to.
Take the TARP program for instance, we we're told this would be used to rescue the banks and then be paid back w/interest and then used to pay down the defeict. It didn't take more than one day before it was being ear marked for pork projects and not for defecit reduction.
huh? the TARP worked, they had plenty and they have some unspent leftover which is what they needed.
they have not spent the leftover money YET.
the real problem as i see it is that there will be no policy changes to keep it from happening again becuase some peopel think regulation is not just unneeded but bad.
it is not bad. anarchy is bad.
this is the critical point to this thread, Reaganomics is what the Democrats just pulled out o'their butts and gave us... it's supply side economics.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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to clarify: The typical policy recommendation of supply-side economics is to achieve the proper level of marginal tax rates.[2] Maximum benefits are achieved by optimizing the marginal tax rates to spur growth.[3] Keynesian macroeconomics, by contrast, contends that tax cuts should be used to increase demand, not supply, and thus should be targeted at lower-income earners, who are more likely to spend additional income on consumption than investment.[4][5]
Many early proponents argued that the size of the economic growth would be significant enough that the increased government revenue from a faster growing economy would be sufficient to compensate completely for the short-term costs of a tax cut, and that tax cuts could, in fact, cause overall revenue to increase.[6]
by running deficits? you effectively reduce taxes because you are spending more money than you take in.... running deficits is simply NOT CHARGING ANY TAX at all....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
Without witty comments or endless web searching for a quote that illustrates the argument that I wish to put forth.....I am inclined to say Bu*&Sh^%.... , Glass.
I understand that you are more of a realist than party motivated.....in either direction.
But your assertation is this....."we can't change the way things are....it has always been that way.....evil is on both sides" (of course that is simply a interpretive paraphrase on my part)
I say: "Pick a side"....."or make it a gangbang and create one."
Both political parties are screwed so I hope that you choose the last option.
Your insights are very astute.....now, put some conviction behind it.
I will admit that I definately lean more "right" than "Left", but I am dissatisfied with both......give us another plausible option.
-------------------- "The greatest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." (WC) Posts: 386 | From: Georgia | Registered: May 2009
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when you start asking people if they like Congress they rant and rave and hate it, right?
ask them a differnt question. ask them if they like their own Senators and Congressperson. Senators? they'll be 50/50 on them, that's more than double what the whole congress gets at 15% or so..
Congressperson? they'll mostly be well above 50/50 because a congressperson comes from your district.
i want the party that i supported for the first 40 some years of my life to stand up and take some action. that's the GOP, i cannot count myself part of them today mostly because i don't even know what they stand for anymore.
IMO the real problem with our economy is that we allowed Chinese imports to come here without proper import duties, and encouraged our own real producers to go to China for cheap labor.
been screaming about it for years and they never do anything about it.
they say they want to open the Chinese makret up to Amrican entrepeneurs... that's going to happen in 50 years... maybe... in the meantime? China is Communist, and is not moving away from communism.
our real problem has been trade deficits and yes now that we are in the trillion$/year range we have one more year to get back under 500 billion or we are going to have to have runaway inflation to finance the debt.
the bankers have all this pretty much set to their liking and they decide what they are going to do.
i keep hearing people say Govt sux, but the private sector is not one bit better, at least we can vote out the politiicans, the private sector answers to noone....
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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IMO the real problem with our economy is that we allowed Chinese imports to come here without proper import duties, and encouraged our own real producers to go to China for cheap labor.
Truer words have never been written...
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It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
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well , i want to see something different too...
but i don't see how third party will do anything more than weaken one or other of the two majors.
as for armed resistance? that road leads to the meanest taking over, the winner would be a spec forces major or something like that.. i think i'd rather have creepy politicians than somebody like Musharroff....
isn't that how Sadam got into power too?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
starting a new party would be a good start I can understand that. The idea of raising my hand against America makes me sick. Now can a new party be effective? I say yes it can. Look at
Lincoln the Republicans were the new party in America and for at least 20 or more years there anti slavery platform worked after many set backs.Old Ross, kinda strange but he was right about where our jobs were going. It does not take a PHD to figure out this mess the slogan of free trade has got us into, sounds good until you see all the American capital leaving the country and next your jobs follow. Then you know why the trade laws changed and what the Road was beeing paved for.Good luck to us I hope our people do wake up and get something done even if it is only a protest
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
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