posted
That is the only reason that they would even consider BK... ------------------------------------------------ no that is not the only reason you don't seem to get it GM is broke done they can't go on anymore by themselves. No either we keep them alive with tax dollars until they restructure or keep them alive for years while they do nothing. And it is not the Unions holding things up mostly it is the investors but that is not a concern now I am for making a quick kill now and getting it over with.
And once people figure it out that they are going to be around there sales will pick up slowly.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by T e x: OK, what GM truck compares to my 2000 Nissan Frontier?
not talking about "lab results," but real world reports.
lol, I don't know where to go to hear "union busting rhetoric."
My 2000 Silverado with 200k miles...so far the only thing I've done is changed the oil and the brake pads...I get 17 mpg and it will drag your Nissan around like a puppy on a leash...
well, I can load just about everything I need for a given job and still get about 24-25 mpg, or better. I got 24 going to Denver last spring, which is uphill alla way, on a hotshot delivery. At $3.50+ per gal. for fuel, I don't think I coulda done the job in your puppy-dragging tow truck. Plus, I get on plenty of job sites where the guys in their big trucks can't maneuver very well. But I can ease around in tight spaces...nimble.
posted
Tex...you asked for a GM comparison to your Nissan. I gave you one. A 2000 Chevrolet Silverado 1/2 ton.
It may cost me a bit more in fuel, but has proven to be just as, or more dependable than your Nissan, and will haul and tow a much bigger payload.
Trucks were designed to haul stuff and to tow trailers, that is their purpose. With my Chevy, I can load EVERYTHING I need for a given job, and I can tow whatever I can't put in the bed. I will gladly pay the extra money in gas to have the ability to haul EVERYTHING I need to do the job in one trip. Oh and one more thing I forgot to mention...my Silverado is 4WD. I can go just about anywhere...
Also up here...when gas prices go up...so do the rates we charge to do a job...
-------------------- ***********************
It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by raybond: That is the only reason that they would even consider BK... ------------------------------------------------ no that is not the only reason you don't seem to get it GM is broke done they can't go on anymore by themselves. No either we keep them alive with tax dollars until they restructure or keep them alive for years while they do nothing. And it is not the Unions holding things up mostly it is the investors but that is not a concern now I am for making a quick kill now and getting it over with.
And once people figure it out that they are going to be around there sales will pick up slowly.
No...you don't seem to get it, GM has been "broke" many times in the past....the difference now is that they aren't able to secure loans through banks BECAUSE OF THE CREDIT CRISIS.
That is why they are looking to the government for a LOAN not a BAILOUT...GET IT?
-------------------- ***********************
It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
I understand and you are right and thats why they are failing along with many others. Nobody will loan them money
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Ford's US sales drop 41 percent in March Ford's March sales fall 41 pct; industry expected to show little recovery despite incentives Kimberly S. Johnson, AP Auto Writer Wednesday April 1, 2009, 12:16 pm EDT
DETROIT (AP) -- Ford Motor Co. says its March sales in the U.S. fell 41 percent from a year earlier as low consumer confidence and job uncertainty continued to keep buyers away from showrooms.
The Dearborn-based automaker says it sold about 131,000 light vehicles, compared with about 222,000 in March 2008.
Other automakers plan to report their results later Wednesday.
Analysts expect the industry's overall sales to show little improvement from February, even though Edmunds.com reports automakers' average incentive spending hit a record high last month.
In an effort to boost sales, Ford announced its "Advantage Program" Monday. It will pay customers' monthly payments -- up to $700 -- for a year if they lose their jobs.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: Tex...you asked for a GM comparison to your Nissan. I gave you one. A 2000 Chevrolet Silverado 1/2 ton.
It may cost me a bit more in fuel, but has proven to be just as, or more dependable than your Nissan, and will haul and tow a much bigger payload.
Trucks were designed to haul stuff and to tow trailers, that is their purpose. With my Chevy, I can load EVERYTHING I need for a given job, and I can tow whatever I can't put in the bed. I will gladly pay the extra money in gas to have the ability to haul EVERYTHING I need to do the job in one trip. Oh and one more thing I forgot to mention...my Silverado is 4WD. I can go just about anywhere...
Also up here...when gas prices go up...so do the rates we charge to do a job...
well, shoot, I can load everything for a GIVEN job, lol. But for "handyman" work, I have to be prepared for more than a "given" job--never know what the next call might be.
But if I need to haul a trailer, I can. Granted, the stock bumper that came with it was too wimpy--I had new one built from 4-inch square tube. All good, now.
I simply don't need a full-size truck, and I've got the second-best in-class--at about half the price. Easy to maintain, too... I don't have 4x drive, but so far I've gone everywhere I wanted to...
quote:Originally posted by raybond: Ford's US sales drop 41 percent in March Ford's March sales fall 41 pct; industry expected to show little recovery despite incentives Kimberly S. Johnson, AP Auto Writer Wednesday April 1, 2009, 12:16 pm EDT
DETROIT (AP) -- Ford Motor Co. says its March sales in the U.S. fell 41 percent from a year earlier as low consumer confidence and job uncertainty continued to keep buyers away from showrooms.
The Dearborn-based automaker says it sold about 131,000 light vehicles, compared with about 222,000 in March 2008.
Other automakers plan to report their results later Wednesday.
Analysts expect the industry's overall sales to show little improvement from February, even though Edmunds.com reports automakers' average incentive spending hit a record high last month.
In an effort to boost sales, Ford announced its "Advantage Program" Monday. It will pay customers' monthly payments -- up to $700 -- for a year if they lose their jobs.
Buck, for instance, I passed on the Ford Ranger. For one, research revealed that they were well built in the 90s, but then quality dropped off. Then, given I needed at least a stretch cab, the only Rangers I could find offered only 6-cylinder--for that kind of mileage, I *would* have opted for a full-size, probably with the improved turbodiesel.
posted
Tex...the point that I have been trying to make is that GM produces just as many high quality vehicles as any other company in the world, they get just as good or better mpg, and they are competitively priced...
The old slogans "GM doesn't produce vehicles that people want" or "all they produce are gas guzzling SUV's" or "their quality and dependability are lesser than that of the foreign companies"
JUST AINT TRUE
Back in the eighties...those statements were valid, but GM has been building world class, fuel efficient, high quality vehicles for the last 15 years or more...
I know...I built them
-------------------- ***********************
It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: Tex...the point that I have been trying to make is that GM produces just as many high quality vehicles as any other company in the world, they get just as good or better mpg, and they are competitively priced...
The old slogans "GM doesn't produce vehicles that people want" or "all they produce are gas guzzling SUV's" or "their quality and dependability are lesser than that of the foreign companies"
JUST AINT TRUE
Back in the eighties...those statements were valid, but GM has been building world class, fuel efficient, high quality vehicles for the last 15 years or more...
I know...I built them
roger, that...
I get maybe a tenth of your frustration or angst, or whatever the correct term is...
But...I gotta tell ya, I can't offa the top of my head report any friends or co-workers who drive a GM product. I've been thinking about this.
The most recent GM product for me or my kids was a '78 Caddy, Fleetwood Brougham. I gave it to Tex, Jr., on purpose as he was still inundated by teen hormones. Sure, he managed to wreck it--but all that steel kept him alive.
As a result? He's determined to one day own another Caddy. Which I understand, and have no problem with--but he'll buy it on his own.
Maybe it was/is a marketing issue?
OK, wait--I do have one friend who bought the top of the line (at least here) GM truck, last year or so...just remembered this. He bought sumpin' called a Texas Edition or King Ranch or something like that. Beautiful truck, with lottsa bells and whistles.
But he also makes more in a good day than most of my circle makes in a week. I've seen him spend $1,500 for a coupla hours in a strip joint and laugh it off.
*********
Anyway, to sum up: 1) the product has to be good; 2) marketing should at least match the product; 3) workers should get paid well; 4) execs need to back down off their high horse--they're way overpaid.
posted
GM may make great cars today(They really don't), but it is reputation and down right moronic business decisions that Has killed them. Granted they have made slightly better moves than Chrysler, but that's like comparing a moron to an idiot. They were beat by everything overseas, from Volvo, VW, Beemer, to Honda, Mazda... Even Hyundai in model looks and performance.
None of this was the fault of the workers... Wasn't even the fault of the designers... It's the fault of the execs who ok'd every bloated underpowered gas guzzler in the last ten years that looked just like the previous model. A company that aims for an 18:1 weight to power ratio in cars they call and advertise as "Sporty" is doomed to fail... and RIGHTFULLY so.
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
The biggest problem with GM is they went into this current economic down turn weak and they are not going to pull out of it.The decision has to be made weather we support them for 2 years, or a little less but most economist think about 2 years,and hope we will get paid back or should GM go the way of some of the major airlines bk and come out strong either way it is going to be a lot of pain for the workers.
People like Wagoner just leave with the emotional feeling of a loser but a loser with 23 million in his pocket
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
At this point not sure it has anything to do with cars or trucks. It does in the long run but not now.
It looks to me like it is a chess game, the President trying to use his leverage to get his way and the car companies using bankruptcy as their leverage.
All of this after a hugh amount of money has been sunk into these companies already.
Hard to say where it will end, but we know who always gets the biggest shaft.
Posts: 3875 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
March was another dismal month for auto sales GM down 45 percent; Ford down 41 percent; Chrysler, Toyota — 39 percent
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
It's the fault of the execs who ok'd every bloated underpowered gas guzzler in the last ten years that looked just like the previous model.
just as the mortgage "crisis" was the fault of the Execs that made the decision to pump as much cheap cash into the economy as they could.
as an entrepeneur? i rail against the idea of pay limits at any level.
as an entepreneur? i get bloody knuckles, burns, torn fingernails, i wear wrangler jeans, and i need customers with disposable income. what pain do these execs feel to build their co's? they inherit this wealth and don't have any respect for what the capital they are PLAYING with really represents. Capital is not a peice of paper; just like the constitution, it represents bloody knuckles and burns, long boring days and nights... simply put, it represents work.
i do not grasp how one person is worth 200 times another because they take risk or make decisions, not if they didn't build the company. that's the deciding factor IMO.
risk takers ( i am one) need to be punished when we make the wrong decisions, otherwise we tend to laugh it off and end up doing bonsai skyjumping with the whole company. why even jump out of a perfectly good airplane, much less throw your chute out first? what is the reward? more capital to take an even bigger risk next time?
on the other hand? MY perception of what has happened in the last 8 years under the Cheney "energy plan" has been the opposite of risk taking.
MY perception is that Cheney and big oil set up a no-risk scenario where they could bleed the economy dry, and they did...
they even managed somehow to get everybody to liquidate all of the home equity and put that into the kitty too...
big gas guzzlers were part of that plan.
GM execs didn't take enough risks IMO either. they made generic cars that showed no imagination.
they were trying to satisfy the demand for safety. When Dale Earnhardt died at Daytona? NASCAR went kinda crazy on safety too... it's not the same sport with so much safety....
safety is important, but it's also just chasing the dragons tail... the more you spend on safety the more costs go up... the cost of car racing is a good example.
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: They were beat by everything overseas, from Volvo, VW, Beemer, to Honda, Mazda... Even Hyundai in model looks and performance.
Model looks and performance??? Nothing but opinions...and who's opinions are those? Oh...that's right "THE EXPERTS"
How about fuel efficiency and quality? GM & Ford are equal to, or better than most of the foreign co's in those two categories...yet "THE EXPERTS" are now using "model looks" and "performance" to show how much better the foreign co's are....LOL
-------------------- ***********************
It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
we all have greed..we all want to make as much as we can...but most of us "little guys" dont take advantage of the ones less fortunate..we do try to help out when we can. when a customer asks what I charge for carpet..pad..etc....I always take into account what they can afford.or cant afford.
-------------------- jordan Posts: 5812 | From: st paul,mn | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
it was revolutionary in looks and design when it came out... where's the new looks now?
everything got "rounded out" but it all started to look the same...
Yah, Ford as well as Chrysler do not change their designs much... and sometimes they use almost the same designs and call the 2 different names like Taurus and Mercury Sable...
Reminds me of when Henry Ford refused to use different colors for the Model T back in the day while his competitors were using different color paints for their cars... Old habits die hard...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna Posts: 4669 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: They were beat by everything overseas, from Volvo, VW, Beemer, to Honda, Mazda... Even Hyundai in model looks and performance.
Model looks and performance??? Nothing but opinions...and who's opinions are those? Oh...that's right "THE EXPERTS"
How about fuel efficiency and quality? GM & Ford are equal to, or better than most of the foreign co's in those two categories...yet "THE EXPERTS" are now using "model looks" and "performance" to show how much better the foreign co's are....LOL
Ummm... Nooo... The consumers.. The consumers are the experts. People bought cars other than GM. Capitalism is rarely wrong. If GM was building the greatest cars ever known to man... They would not be in the mess they are in now. Same goes for the other two. The converse is an inarguable point. No one is hiding GM dealerships... There are no armed henchmen warding customers away from any bow tie..
People bought different brands because they liked those brands better..
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: They were beat by everything overseas, from Volvo, VW, Beemer, to Honda, Mazda... Even Hyundai in model looks and performance.
Model looks and performance??? Nothing but opinions...and who's opinions are those? Oh...that's right "THE EXPERTS"
How about fuel efficiency and quality? GM & Ford are equal to, or better than most of the foreign co's in those two categories...yet "THE EXPERTS" are now using "model looks" and "performance" to show how much better the foreign co's are....LOL
Ummm... Nooo... The consumers.. The consumers are the experts. People bought cars other than GM. Capitalism is rarely wrong. If GM was building the greatest cars ever known to man... They would not be in the mess they are in now. Same goes for the other two. The converse is an inarguable point. No one is hiding GM dealerships... There are no armed henchmen warding customers away from any bow tie..
People bought different brands because they liked those brands better..
Hmmm...last time I checked, GM was the 2nd largest automaker in the world...
There must be a few consumers out there that like their products...lol
Consumers are the experts? LMAO...most consumers are far from experts when it comes to cars & trucks...in fact, many of them buy the brands that media companies like Consumer Reports tells them they should buy.
These media companies are just about as honest & trustworthy as Fox News or CNN...
-------------------- ***********************
It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
The corvette is the only thing Chevy does that is worth anything as far as cars go... I am a fan of their trucks having owned a few... They make a tough truck... I would know.
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I knew a great car salesman once he could sell a freezer to an Eskimo. Sold every type of vehicle ever made. in the end he told me they were all about the same he finished out his sales life selling BMW's because he liked to sell product not money,as he put it, and with the domestic vehicles he said that is mostly what you sell anymore money and not much if any product.
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
I don't know Rel...have you seen the new Camaro?
The Malibu and Impala are both really nice cars too...
Can't beat Chevy trucks...I've had 3 of them in the last 32 years. I drove em hard and put em away wet, and I got 10+ problem free years out of every one of em...
-------------------- ***********************
It's all in the timing... Posts: 4303 | From: DSA | Registered: Dec 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: The corvette is the only thing Chevy does that is worth anything as far as cars go... I am a fan of their trucks having owned a few... They make a tough truck... I would know.
'Vettes? really? how odd...
Also, how is it that you know tough trucks? Not saying you don't, just wondering...
Two of my favorites were GM products: a '63 GMC shortbed...narrow...with a 327, that I hopped up a lil bit. Out of sequence, I had a '70 model Chevy years before that, with a 350: I boosted the compression a tad, upped the cam, and installed headers then put in a posi-trac and oversize rear wheels/tires.
Buck kids me about dragging around my lil Nissan today...shoot, I could drag around any stock 4-wheel drive with that truck.
Of course, I got 10 mpg, no matter empty or fully loaded...
I work for Chrysler and build the Dodge Ram and Dodge Dakota. The Dakota engine sounds like crap. The Ram w/ HEMI runs good. The new Ram has coolers in the sides of the bed as an option. So how about this....Retired and T e x.....The Ram owner could load his truck up with beer and watch you two cry back and forth while chugging beers laughing. And when its done...The Ram owner could tow both of your trucks to the junk yard.
But GM...Start with Wagnor. He has lost a lot of money in stock. Remember, he loaded up years ago at $30 something to show he stands behind GM. I don't think he wants them to go BK. I know he is ousted now but still think he was the right man for the job. Yes the financial crisis and the OIL spikes did screw the AUTOS....and I mean ALL the AUTO companies.
The difference between the AIRLINES and AUTOS. Airlines don't build anything. Auto BK will force suppliers to face BK too which cripples the recovery time. Not a simple thing. Also, so many suppliers filed for protection years ago....Dana, Tower, Hayes Lemmerz, Delphi, and the list goes on. A BK of any auto company would push them to BK round 2.
Posts: 2367 | From: Detroit | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by R1 Man: Here, I will start some crap.
I work for Chrysler and build the Dodge Ram and Dodge Dakota. The Dakota engine sounds like crap. The Ram w/ HEMI runs good. The new Ram has coolers in the sides of the bed as an option. So how about this....Retired and T e x.....The Ram owner could load his truck up with beer and watch you two cry back and forth while chugging beers laughing. And when its done...The Ram owner could tow both of your trucks to the junk yard.
But GM...Start with Wagnor. He has lost a lot of money in stock. Remember, he loaded up years ago at $30 something to show he stands behind GM. I don't think he wants them to go BK. I know he is ousted now but still think he was the right man for the job. Yes the financial crisis and the OIL spikes did screw the AUTOS....and I mean ALL the AUTO companies.
The difference between the AIRLINES and AUTOS. Airlines don't build anything. Auto BK will force suppliers to face BK too which cripples the recovery time. Not a simple thing. Also, so many suppliers filed for protection years ago....Dana, Tower, Hayes Lemmerz, Delphi, and the list goes on. A BK of any auto company would push them to BK round 2.
and we *ALL* know how green MOPAR has been, right?
posted
you may work for chrysler now good chance you will be working for, fix it again tony,(fiat) by the end of the month
-------------------- Wise men learn more from fools than fools from the wise. Posts: 3827 | From: beautiful California | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[BadOne]](graemlins/headbash.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
