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CashCowMoo
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OMG the stimulus plan is giving money to illegal aliens in this county. Yeah yeah I know, a lot of you here who think illegal immigration is ok will say "but but they build things and spend money"

Well its also about a lot of other things as well such as putting legal Americans to work.

--------------------
It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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Lockman
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quote:
Originally posted by Pagan:
quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
Let me see, now, how many times did the previous administration tout tax rebates and tax lowering as the do all end all savior of the economy?

How many times did they try it?

Uh huh, yeah!

Do you see the effects?

Uh huh, yeah, me too.....

"Reducing taxes INCREASES revenue to the government and increase incentives for entrepreneurs to hire people (as their business increases)" is just a lot of republican political mantra a political bull sh-t.

IT DOESN'T WORK, as the horrific economic mess we are in today aptly demonstrates!

So lets go on the record...Do you or do you not think the Democrat Stimulus plan will work?

Taking an already out of control defict and adding another 800billion of spending, do you think this is the way to go?

How can one person be so misinformed all the time. It is not $800B in spending. Here's the actual breakdown since you seem lacking. "The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act includes $544 billion in spending and $275 billion in tax relief.

$300B is quite a bit of difference. And the out of control deficit? Where'd that come from again, oh that's right, Dubya and his posse. Get up to date on the facts Lockman. You look like a fool when you post statements like that IMO.

Doesn't matter where the out of control defect came from...it here and now we have to deal with it. So you think 500 billion in additional spending will do it? And just so we can have a reasonable discussion, how about just stating your opinion and keep the personal attacks to your self.

--------------------
Let's Go METS!!!

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Highwaychild
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Like I said, it's a slap in the face they put the earmarks in front of the workers!


quote:
Originally posted by Highwaychild:
i don't like it, in fact I think it's a slap in the face! The more things CHANGE the more they stay the same.


Shocker: Only 3% Of Democrat Economic Stimulus Spending Spree Goes To Roads And Bridges
http://kxmc.com/getArticle.asp?ArticleId=323730


Democrats compare the infrastructure programs in the stimulus to the Eisenhower interstate program, "but he proposed a $500 billion highway system, and they're going to put $30 billion" into roads and bridges.

Mica correct roads and bridges are small part of stimulus

In making their case for the economic stimulus bill, President Obama and Democrats in Congress have been saying the bill will invest in the nation's infrastructure similar to President Eisenhower's creation of the interstate highway system in the 1950s.

When Obama gave an initial outline of the stimulus plan in a radio/YouTube address on Dec. 6, 2008, he said it would include a significant investment in the highway system.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jan/28/john-mica/mica-co rrect-roads-and-bridges-are-small-part-stim/


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Pagan
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quote:
Originally posted by Highwaychild:
i don't like it, in fact I think it's a slap in the face! The more things CHANGE the more they stay the same.


Shocker: Only 3% Of Democrat Economic Stimulus Spending Spree Goes To Roads And Bridges
http://kxmc.com/getArticle.asp?ArticleId=323730


Democrats compare the infrastructure programs in the stimulus to the Eisenhower interstate program, "but he proposed a $500 billion highway system, and they're going to put $30 billion" into roads and bridges.

Mica correct roads and bridges are small part of stimulus

In making their case for the economic stimulus bill, President Obama and Democrats in Congress have been saying the bill will invest in the nation's infrastructure similar to President Eisenhower's creation of the interstate highway system in the 1950s.

When Obama gave an initial outline of the stimulus plan in a radio/YouTube address on Dec. 6, 2008, he said it would include a significant investment in the highway system.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2009/jan/28/john-mica/mica-co rrect-roads-and-bridges-are-small-part-stim/

$30B is not signifigant? The roads and bridges are already built. The $30B applies to upgrades and improvements. Not re-building the entire road and bridge infrastructure.

--------------------
It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

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Lockman
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quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
Let me see, now, how many times did the previous administration tout tax rebates and tax lowering as the do all end all savior of the economy?

How many times did they try it?

Uh huh, yeah!

Do you see the effects?

Uh huh, yeah, me too.....

"Reducing taxes INCREASES revenue to the government and increase incentives for entrepreneurs to hire people (as their business increases)" is just a lot of republican political mantra a political bull sh-t.

IT DOESN'T WORK, as the horrific economic mess we are in today aptly demonstrates!

So lets go on the record...Do you or do you not think the Democrat Stimulus plan will work?

Taking an already out of control defict and adding another 800billion of spending, do you think this is the way to go?

I think it cannot work if what is currently on the table is the extent of it. It isn't enough in and of itself....some very serious oversight and honest regulation must be enacted and installed. But it at least is a starting place, which is something that the republicans have refused to do for over 8 years.

I have a return query. Is $800 billion or multiples thereof too much to pay to keep this Nation and its hopes and dreams from dying? If you think so, then there is a question as to where your loyalties lie.

If you don't think the plan will work as it is today why would you not welcome the input of ALL our representatives? Maybe, with members of congress challenging each other we might get a plan that will get us out of this mess.

--------------------
Let's Go METS!!!

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Pagan
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quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
quote:
Originally posted by Pagan:
quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
Let me see, now, how many times did the previous administration tout tax rebates and tax lowering as the do all end all savior of the economy?

How many times did they try it?

Uh huh, yeah!

Do you see the effects?

Uh huh, yeah, me too.....

"Reducing taxes INCREASES revenue to the government and increase incentives for entrepreneurs to hire people (as their business increases)" is just a lot of republican political mantra a political bull sh-t.

IT DOESN'T WORK, as the horrific economic mess we are in today aptly demonstrates!

So lets go on the record...Do you or do you not think the Democrat Stimulus plan will work?

Taking an already out of control defict and adding another 800billion of spending, do you think this is the way to go?

How can one person be so misinformed all the time. It is not $800B in spending. Here's the actual breakdown since you seem lacking. "The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act includes $544 billion in spending and $275 billion in tax relief.

$300B is quite a bit of difference. And the out of control deficit? Where'd that come from again, oh that's right, Dubya and his posse. Get up to date on the facts Lockman. You look like a fool when you post statements like that IMO.

Doesn't matter where the out of control defect came from...it here and now we have to deal with it. So you think 500 billion in additional spending will do it? And just so we can have a reasonable discussion, how about just stating your opinion and keep the personal attacks to your self.
It wasn't a personal attack, but you were clearly lacking on info. A $300B difference is substantial in my world. Just know the facts before you speak....it's not that hard.

As to your question, yes, I think $544B in spending and another $275B in tax cuts, coupled with the $750B financial system bailout should go along way to getting the country righted. Do I agree with every facet of the stimulus plan? No. Everybody has different ideas, but it will put the US on the path to recovery from this disaster IMO.

PS: it IS important to remember who put us in this predicament.

--------------------
It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.

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Highwaychild
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A $1B per state avg. would be a good start. This is 6% of what Eisenhower did they were comparing this endeavor to...

Alot of the upgrades and improvements on these bridges are probably ,in fact, going to be torn down and rebuilt they are so old.

It's just not what they said they were going to do...

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Pagan
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"Doesn't matter where the out of control defect came from"

Just curious, is this a reference to Dubya?

--------------------
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Highwaychild
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A USDOT study concludes that for each $1 billion of federal spending on highway construction nationwide, 47,500 jobs are generated annually.

Congress reauthorized the multi-year federal surface transportation legislation on July 29, 2005, approving $286.4 billion for transportation needs nationwide. President Bush signed the Safe, Accountable, Flexible, and Efficient Transportation Equity Act - A Legacy for Users (SAFETEA-LU), into law on August 10, 2005... http://www.tripnet.org/nationalfactsheet.htm


Poor road conditions cost motorists in the United States $54 billion a year in 2005 for repairs and operating costs, according to the American Society of Civil Engineers' (ASCE) most recent Infrastructure Report Card. Yet "the $59.4 billion spent annually is well below the $94 billion needed each year to improve transportation infrastructure conditions nationally," says the ASCE.... http://news.thomasnet.com/IMT/archives/2007/10/united_states_infrastrucu re_bridges_roads_congestion_funding.html

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rhwdetroit
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It looks to me like politics as usual. Obama can talk to the GOP until re-election and he won't get anything accomplished with them. If McCain were in office right now, he wouldn't get anything done either. Neither party has any real "give" to it. I'll bet at least half of these idiots in the GOP won't care what Obama puts out, they will be against it. On the flip side, many Dems will just blindly follow him into oblivion if that is where he ends up going with any wrong decisions. Much the same way the pubs did with Bush and look at them now. The pub party better be careful because purposely making Obama fail could ultimately be a huge burden on the party. The media will destroy them. The media is poised to make everything Obama does look like it's right, because if they don't, they look stupid because they really got him the dem nomination and the presidency.

--------------------
"When you're in a hole, the first thing you do is stop digging." -H. Ross Perot

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glassman
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Neither party has any real "give" to it.

in public? i agree, behind closed doors? sharing the payola? it's a friggin orgy [Big Grin]

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The Bigfoot
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Lock,

The big shakeups are over. The explosive derivatives market has exploded. The real estate bubble has burst. The shaky financial institutions have shaken and been shorn up (covered up) by Paulson and his bailout.

What we have been left with now is a lack of faith which is causing a lack of spending which is causing bad paper numbers which is causing job cuts which is causing a lack of faith which is causing a lack of spending which is causing bad paper numbers which is causing.....It is a death spiral.

What we need right now is a disruption to the cycle.

The ground floor has been laid. Banks are stabilized (my disagreement with the method aside) and are slowly getting back to sustainable lending practices. The DOW has pulled out of free fall and has been churning for 3 months now despite continued negative news. Individual stocks will fall but the index should level out now. Housing supply is finally starting to dry up. The must go's are finally going, this will lower home values in the short term, but it will actually increase home values by getting a semblance of regular supply/demand economics back in action.

The stage has been set in the political arena. A majority of Americans are willing to believe it is possible now that Obama is in office. That sway of public opinion can make things work that would never have succeeded under the pessimism of the Bush administration.

Now it is time for the action. Does the national mall REALLY need new sod? (Well...yes, but) No it doesn't. But Americans need to see their government investing in people. Consumer confidence is not going to come back because it was reported that AIG will get to retain their credit rating. While that might mean huge things in the financial sector, to Boe the Plumber, that don't mean diddly. Americans need to see the government giving Americans work to do and trying hard to put money back in their pockets.

When Americans believe that their will be a safety net for them as individuals should they lose their job you will see those that are in a position to start to spend again.

Yes, it may not be perfect but Obama's stimulus package is what we need right now.

--------------------
No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.

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rhwdetroit
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quote:
Yes, it may not be perfect but Obama's stimulus package is what we need right now.
I don't like any of this. I remain very pessimistic.

--------------------
"When you're in a hole, the first thing you do is stop digging." -H. Ross Perot

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The Bigfoot
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quote:
Originally posted by rhwdetroit:
quote:
Yes, it may not be perfect but Obama's stimulus package is what we need right now.
I don't like any of this. I remain very pessimistic.
Broadcasting from Detroit as you are I am not surprised.

You guys needed a state specific stimulus package back in the Clinton years.

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bdgee
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The spending that is needed isn't the blowing of some $3-4 hundred per family tax rebate on school supplies, because that wad gets shot all at once and there isn't any follow up.

The economy needs for people (and their bank) to believe enough in tomorrow to be willing to spend that $3-4 hundred on a down payment on some furniture or a car with the expectation that they will have a job next month and can pay the bill.

Saver me $3000 by lowering my taxes right now and I will hoard it in hopes of getting by a while on it when I loose my paycheck next June. Make me believe that layoff isn't going to come and I might want to get a bigger house before Jane and her little brother get to junior high so they can have separate bedrooms. But, if you think I'm buying into this housing market with the threat of no job and on the basis of lower tax on income I ain't gonna get, you are a fool bigger than me.

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CashCowMoo
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California is a good example of what happens when the far left runs the show. Look at their budget, or lack of one I should say. The state is broke, and they are not paying some state tax returns just so they can pay teachers to keep teaching. We can all agree that California is not a Republican state. You can say "oh but cash arnold is a republican"

Yeah no.....dont think so.

--------------------
It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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Lockman
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quote:
Originally posted by Pagan:
quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
quote:
Originally posted by Pagan:
quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
Let me see, now, how many times did the previous administration tout tax rebates and tax lowering as the do all end all savior of the economy?

How many times did they try it?

Uh huh, yeah!

Do you see the effects?

Uh huh, yeah, me too.....

"Reducing taxes INCREASES revenue to the government and increase incentives for entrepreneurs to hire people (as their business increases)" is just a lot of republican political mantra a political bull sh-t.

IT DOESN'T WORK, as the horrific economic mess we are in today aptly demonstrates!

So lets go on the record...Do you or do you not think the Democrat Stimulus plan will work?

Taking an already out of control defict and adding another 800billion of spending, do you think this is the way to go?

How can one person be so misinformed all the time. It is not $800B in spending. Here's the actual breakdown since you seem lacking. "The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act includes $544 billion in spending and $275 billion in tax relief.

$300B is quite a bit of difference. And the out of control deficit? Where'd that come from again, oh that's right, Dubya and his posse. Get up to date on the facts Lockman. You look like a fool when you post statements like that IMO.

Doesn't matter where the out of control defect came from...it here and now we have to deal with it. So you think 500 billion in additional spending will do it? And just so we can have a reasonable discussion, how about just stating your opinion and keep the personal attacks to your self.
It wasn't a personal attack, but you were clearly lacking on info. A $300B difference is substantial in my world. Just know the facts before you speak....it's not that hard.

As to your question, yes, I think $544B in spending and another $275B in tax cuts, coupled with the $750B financial system bailout should go along way to getting the country righted. Do I agree with every facet of the stimulus plan? No. Everybody has different ideas, but it will put the US on the path to recovery from this disaster IMO.

PS: it IS important to remember who put us in this predicament.

PS: their still here, one is running the IRS.

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glassman
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cash, it's not just CA tho. it's everywhere run a general google on state budget and hit news... every state has bad news...

CA, minn, Wis, Mass. Arizon all on the first page...

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Highwaychild
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The Dem's earmarks are going to make Obama look like a dipchit... Thanks Nancy!
Infrastructure and education was in President Obama's top 3 or 4 priorities that he campaigned on,
but money allocated to each in this stimulus package is a small, pitiful JOKE!

Divided we fall, you ever hear of that you ignorant self centered politicians?

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Highwaychild
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Lou Dobbs said last night some of these politicians didn't even read all 600+ pages(earmarks) of the plan they voted on. Just going on party lines...pitiful!
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bdgee
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
California is a good example of what happens when the far left runs the show. Look at their budget, or lack of one I should say. The state is broke, and they are not paying some state tax returns just so they can pay teachers to keep teaching. We can all agree that California is not a Republican state. You can say "oh but cash arnold is a republican"

Yeah no.....dont think so.

And the whole world is a good example of what results from having the U.S. right-wing run the show. "Look at their budget, or lack of one I should say.

Cow, you need to learn to use anoliogy more carefully.

(Too, logic and reason are not functions of analogy. Just because some apples are too far from ripe to eat when they are green doesn't make any green apple bitter.)

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Highwaychild
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Here it is, Lou Dobbs...

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2009/01/28/ldt.ferre.stimulus.or.waste .cnn

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Highwaychild
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I just e-mailed Pelosi AND Obama. I bet they'll get right on it...
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