"We want to take money and put it back in the pocket of middle-class people," Biden said in an interview on ABC's "Good Morning America."
Noting that wealthier Americans would indeed pay more, Biden said: "It's time to be patriotic ... time to jump in, time to be part of the deal, time to help get America out of the rut."
"We want to take money and put it back in the pocket of middle-class people," Biden said in an interview on ABC's "Good Morning America."
Noting that wealthier Americans would indeed pay more, Biden said: "It's time to be patriotic ... time to jump in, time to be part of the deal, time to help get America out of the rut."
:g:
Yep, and Biden's right. It's time they started paying their share instead of parking it offshore where they hide it from taxes.
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You really don't know the definition of socialism... much like PMS... btw CCM I'm going to assume you are middle class and not "rich" despite your reaction... and if so then Obama/Biden are proposing cutting taxes for the middle class such as yourself and raising the taxes of the rich... sort of a ying/yang.. would you rather it be the other way around like it has always been under the GOP?...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Yep, and Biden's right. It's time they started paying their share instead of parking it offshore where they hide it from taxes.
Yeah!!! It so unfair that they (those earning more than $250,000 a year) are only paying 90% of the tax burden!!! Unpatriotic b*st*rds!!!
posted
It so unfair that they (those earning more than $250,000 a year) are only paying 90% of the tax burden!!! Unpatriotic b*st*rds!!!
you trip me out SF...
how are you going to tax people with no money anyway?
you point out Federal Income tax only when it suports your anger, but you forget that everybody pays sales and gasoline tax and all homeowners pay RE taxes too...
Palin takes money from oil co's and GIVES it away... where's your anger on that? don't care as long as she's a GOP?
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.
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We've been over this already in the Rove ignores subpoena, refuses to testify debate.
you point out Federal Income tax only when it suports your anger, but you forget that everybody pays sales and gasoline tax and all homeowners pay RE taxes too...
That sales\gas tax\property tax you claim EVERYBODY pays? The poor and middle class get more back than they pay in...In fact, the lowest 20%? They get almost $9 for ever dollar they pay in through those above mentioned taxes.
Palin takes money from oil co's and GIVES it away... where's your anger on that? don't care as long as she's a GOP?
Show me where I've said I agree with that from anyone, Glass. Palin or otherwise. I disagree with any form of "success punishment" which is exactly what she did. I don't agree with ANY candidate completely and Palin is no exception.
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I am not saying that is TRUE socialism, but cmon. Taking more money from you, and then well you know. The problem I have is what kind of accountability will their be to where that extra tax money goes? I dont make over 250K per year, but what if down the road I do? Id have to work that much harder to make more to offset the higher tax rate.
The problem I think we have had is Bush was giving massive tax breaks to wealthy people and businesses during a war time. What sense does that make? Big mistake in my opinion. Taxes are not the answer in my opinion. Unless there was a sunset clause with them then im against them.
-------------------- It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.
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The fact is, SF, you go out of the way to slam democrats whenever you can, then when it turns out that it is sometimes supported by republicans, you disappear onto the woodwork like the cockroach you are, then sneak out in the dark to dine on the same things in secret.
If you don't want to be thought of as vermin, try not looking like the purely selfish loudmouth you are.
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how are you going to tax people with no money anyway?
I seperated this one point from the rest because I think the question embodies my biggest complaint with the current 'welfare' mentality. I feel that instead of simply doling out money we should be focusing our funds on various forms of work training programs. Increase the individuals' ability to contribute to society (and thus their ability to share their portion of the tax burden) instead of paying them not to contribute. Some cities have tried this but I have yet to see any real push by the feds to follow suit.
Mach likes to point to the workfare push by Clinton but never mentions the fact that long before Bush, jr got elected most of those enrolled in the program bailed on it and the program dried up.
Why is that...and why haven't we, as a country, done anything about it?
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Another fact, Bdgee, is that I've tried to show a little bit of respect toward you since offering my 'olive branch' a couple of weeks ago. The fact that I refuse to get dragged into yet another insult fest with you may mean that I am a little more choosy with where I post.
If that doesn't satisfy you? That's something you'll have to live with.
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"I dont make over 250K per year, but what if down the road I do? Id have to work that much harder to make more to offset the higher tax rate."
You don't seem to be able to understand how the book keeping is done on income tax and, as a result, you make ridiculous and false statements about income taxes.
Assume Obama's proposal comes to pass and suppose two people, named A and B, make $249,999 and $259,999 respectively.
Both A and B pay exactly the same amount and exactly the same percentage tax on $249,999, Then B pays taxes on an additional $10,000 at a higher rate than on the $249,999.
B DOES NOT PAyu AT A HIGHER RATE THAN A ON THAT AMOUNT UNDER $250,000 and it does not mean you'd "have to work that much harder to make more to offset the higher tax rate".
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quote:Originally posted by SeekingFreedom: Another fact, Bdgee, is that I've tried to show a little bit of respect toward you since offering my 'olive branch' a couple of weeks ago. The fact that I refuse to get dragged into yet another insult fest with you may mean that I am a little more choosy with where I post.
If that doesn't satisfy you? That's something you'll have to live with.
You might try not posting trash and insulting drivel, like posting the following claim to make it sound like you are being cheated.
"That sales\gas tax\property tax you claim EVERYBODY pays? The poor and middle class get more back than they pay in...In fact, the lowest 20%? They get almost $9 for ever dollar they pay in through those above mentioned taxes."
That sales tax and gasoline tax and, something you choose to ignore and leave out, payroll tax, which amounts to over half the entire income of the United States and which is not paid by the wealthy belies your figures, which are 100% based on income taxes. Use amounts paid in all forms of taxes, rather than stating the artificial figures you should know are rigged.
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If you haven't read the above mentioned thread, Bdgee, Rove ignores subpoena, refuses to testify , I would like to encourage you to do so before lecturing me on how taxation works. Additionally, did you read the actual work paper I linked to or just the summary? From page 23 of the work...
Another way to present tax burdens is as a percentage of comprehensive household income, or “effective tax rates.” Figure 3 presents federal, state and local effective tax rates. Overall the distribution of effective tax rates is progressive, and rises across all income quintiles. Total effective tax rates range from 13.0 percent on the bottom quintile to 34.5 percent on the top quintile.
Federal taxes are more progressive than state and local taxes, largely due to their heavy reliance on progressive individual income and corporate income taxes. State and local effective tax rates show mixed progressivity, rising over the first four quintiles but falling between the fourth and fifth quintiles. Heavy reliance on sales and property taxes— neither of which are based on household income—largely explains the relatively flat overall distribution of state and local effective tax rates.
As stated, the study takes into account the additional taxes beyond simple income tax.
As for using this information to show that I am somehow being cheated? I have clearly stated that I am in the lower end of the middle class. I would BENEFIT from the Obama\Biden tax policies (at least on the surface). But the fact that I'm not rich does not mean I can't cry foul anymore than not being Jewish prevents me from finding anti-semitism offensive.
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quote:Originally posted by SeekingFreedom: Mach likes to point to the workfare push by Clinton but never mentions the fact that long before Bush, jr got elected most of those enrolled in the program bailed on it and the program dried up.
I wouldn't say they bailed out or that it dried up... more like it wasn't renewed under Bush Jr. in 2004 if my memory is correct... if not let me know... Under the GOP go figure it wasn't renewed if im right.. and no doubt under Obama something similar would be revived...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli: I wouldn't say they bailed out or that it dried up... more like it wasn't renewed under Bush Jr. in 2004 if my memory is correct... if not let me know... Under the GOP go figure it wasn't renewed if im right.. and no doubt under Obama something similar would be revived...
Between 1997 and 2000, enormous numbers of the poor have left or been terminated from the program, with a national drop of 53% in total recipients.[10] Since there is less training and education available than with the earlier JOBS program, these "last hired, first fired" recipients have been returning to welfare and the caseloads have been increasing.
quote:Originally posted by SeekingFreedom: If you haven't read the above mentioned thread, Bdgee, Rove ignores subpoena, refuses to testify , I would like to encourage you to do so before lecturing me on how taxation works. Additionally, did you read the actual work paper I linked to or just the summary? From page 23 of the work...
Another way to present tax burdens is as a percentage of comprehensive household income, or “effective tax rates.” Figure 3 presents federal, state and local effective tax rates. Overall the distribution of effective tax rates is progressive, and rises across all income quintiles. Total effective tax rates range from 13.0 percent on the bottom quintile to 34.5 percent on the top quintile.
Federal taxes are more progressive than state and local taxes, largely due to their heavy reliance on progressive individual income and corporate income taxes. State and local effective tax rates show mixed progressivity, rising over the first four quintiles but falling between the fourth and fifth quintiles. Heavy reliance on sales and property taxes— neither of which are based on household income—largely explains the relatively flat overall distribution of state and local effective tax rates.
As stated, the study takes into account the additional taxes beyond simple income tax.
As for using this information to show that I am somehow being cheated? I have clearly stated that I am in the lower end of the middle class. I would BENEFIT from the Obama\Biden tax policies (at least on the surface). But the fact that I'm not rich does not mean I can't cry foul anymore than not being Jewish prevents me from finding anti-semitism offensive.
You are so blessedly arrogant it smells.
I'm sorry I previously accused you of knowing that claim of how much poor people get versus how much they pay is not correct and being dishonest enough to post false information, knowing it was false. You really don't know any better, do you?
"As stated, the study takes into account the additional taxes beyond simple income tax.", but it leaves out payroll taxes, which are the largest portion of things withheld in the poor's pay checks, it is not paid by the wealthy, and it is over half the income of the Nation. That is an amount that is well over half of the income of the Nation coming out of the pockets of the poor.
I never suggested you have any particular level of income and have no concern with that, so stop trying to paint me as presumptive and out of line on that. I know a man who has no effective income to speak of, but he certainly isn't lower middle class or any kind of middle class or lower class....he is stinking filthy rich, living in a mansion with all expenses paid by a tax free foundation set up by his parents. It makes no difference, because like you he stalks about arrogantly misinforming whoever he can trap with misinformation about income taxes, which he doesn't pay.....and, like you, he likes to point out his "low" income whenever possible as a counter anyone pointing out his bias.
By the way, you don't erase months of being a pure complete azzhole, having insulted me and everyone you possibly could with asinine and arrogant claims of superiority, name calling, labeling, and degrading characterizations, directly out of Fat Rush the Dopers "Handbook on being a disgusting republican jerk" so as to not allow anyone that doesn't preach republican propaganda a chance to speak.
You can't suddenly realize you have socially been being a pile of pig sh-t for months and say, "Ok, I declare a truce, and demand that anyone else accept it as magical transformation and say, "oh yes, I agree".
Everyone STARTS with respect. But once you have proved you don't deserve it (which you have), the road back is much longer and you have to earn respect. You have a long long way to go.
That road isn't as simple as saying you offer an "olive branch". I am not stuck in quick sand and don't need the aid of a stick to be pulled out. There are many many insults and names you've called and snide remarks that you have placed on the books and it is you that needs to balance the accounts. Only you can. You decide.
So far as I am concerned, you can be trusted about as far as a dead horse can run. Again, you lost respect....it has to be earned before you get any again. Yeah, i kno, it's a hard job, but you did earn that.
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quote:I feel that instead of simply doling out money we should be focusing our funds on various forms of work training programs. Increase the individuals' ability to contribute to society (and thus their ability to share their portion of the tax burden) instead of paying them not to contribute. Some cities have tried this but I have yet to see any real push by the feds to follow suit.
Unfortunately, you'll never see this happen. The left will not allow the lower class to work for 2 reasons:
1) they feel guilty about a variety of things; slavery; women's rights, etc. They honestly think that these people are "victims" (the left loves victims) and that they must be treated like children.
2) the left wants to keep these people poor so that they will vote with the left (to keep getting their handouts). Without all the "victims" voting with the left, they would NEVER win an election.
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quote:I feel that instead of simply doling out money we should be focusing our funds on various forms of work training programs. Increase the individuals' ability to contribute to society (and thus their ability to share their portion of the tax burden) instead of paying them not to contribute. Some cities have tried this but I have yet to see any real push by the feds to follow suit.
Unfortunately, you'll never see this happen. The left will not allow the lower class to work for 2 reasons:
1) they feel guilty about a variety of things; slavery; women's rights, etc. They honestly think that these people are "victims" (the left loves victims) and that they must be treated like children.
2) the left wants to keep these people poor so that they will vote with the left (to keep getting their handouts). Without all the "victims" voting with the left, they would NEVER win an election.
So then why is it the Left that has implemented work training programs in the past only to have them cut by the right and complained about by people such as yourself as handouts.
I still wonder why you participate in Section 8 since it's voluntary. I wonder if it's because you wouldn't be able to rent the places if it wasn't for a Government handout as you call it.
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quote:So then why is it the Left that has implemented work training programs in the past only to have them cut by the right and complained about by people such as yourself as handouts.
I am certainly not against work training programs designed to get people off of government handouts and have NOT complained about them.
I participate in Section 8 because it helps fill rental units - in other words FOR THE MONEY! It's that simple.
As I've said many times before, if the government would shut down Section 8 and other handouts tomorrow, it would not affect my business one bit. Given the choice between being homeless and working, I'm betting that almost every one of these people would choose work. So, the only change for me would be that these tenants would pay their own bills instead of having their rent paid by you and me (the taxpayers).
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quote:I feel that instead of simply doling out money we should be focusing our funds on various forms of work training programs. Increase the individuals' ability to contribute to society (and thus their ability to share their portion of the tax burden) instead of paying them not to contribute. Some cities have tried this but I have yet to see any real push by the feds to follow suit.
Unfortunately, you'll never see this happen. The left will not allow the lower class to work for 2 reasons:
1) they feel guilty about a variety of things; slavery; women's rights, etc. They honestly think that these people are "victims" (the left loves victims) and that they must be treated like children.
2) the left wants to keep these people poor so that they will vote with the left (to keep getting their handouts). Without all the "victims" voting with the left, they would NEVER win an election.
You prove again how easily you jump into labeling people, then you also prove you know little about them.
"The left", as you so eagerly anoint them isn't at all what you claim and certainly not so simple and single minded as you insist.
You need to learn to respect peoples opinions and learn from them, instead of insulting them with your skewed and bigoted descriptions.
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quote:So then why is it the Left that has implemented work training programs in the past only to have them cut by the right and complained about by people such as yourself as handouts.
I am certainly not against work training programs designed to get people off of government handouts and have NOT complained about them.
I participate in Section 8 because it helps fill rental units - in other words FOR THE MONEY! It's that simple.
As I've said many times before, if the government would shut down Section 8 and other handouts tomorrow, it would not affect my business one bit. Given the choice between being homeless and working, I'm betting that almost every one of these people would choose work. So, the only change for me would be that these tenants would pay their own bills instead of having their rent paid by you and me (the taxpayers).
That certainly doesn't follow. If the government stopped paying their rent and they had to pay themselves, those that could afford rent would use their money to live elsewhere, where they might have a landlord that showed them some respect and where the apartments weren't all they were allowed and were better quality.
Of course, that leave a lot of them, those that cannot make the rent, on the street for you to insult and point out, so your ego can still be bloated.
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I still wonder why you participate in Section 8 since it's voluntary. I wonder if it's because you wouldn't be able to rent the places if it wasn't for a Government handout as you call it.
Hypocrisy on his part is what I and others call it but he doesn't have the ballz to admit it is...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:So then why is it the Left that has implemented work training programs in the past only to have them cut by the right and complained about by people such as yourself as handouts.
I am certainly not against work training programs designed to get people off of government handouts and have NOT complained about them.
I participate in Section 8 because it helps fill rental units - in other words FOR THE MONEY! It's that simple.
As I've said many times before, if the government would shut down Section 8 and other handouts tomorrow, it would not affect my business one bit. Given the choice between being homeless and working, I'm betting that almost every one of these people would choose work. So, the only change for me would be that these tenants would pay their own bills instead of having their rent paid by you and me (the taxpayers).
You would sell your own mother on a street corner FOR THE MONEY!! lol
You participate in section 8 not only for the money but because you can't fill your rentals and i have no doubt if Section 8 didn't exist and your tenants were forced to work they couldn't afford your apartments on a McJob wage... your rentals would be empty, you would owe a mortgage, you would file bankruptcy, lose your home and possessions and apply for welfare programs yourself...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:Originally posted by a surfer: Left, Right , front, back, No matter how you slice it there will always be a % of those who cannot save money.
Saving money is the ONLY way to build wealth.
Doesn't matter if you make 20k a year or 200k if your not saving you are not moving forward.
The biggest reform this country needs IMO is to move away from consumerism and learn how to save.
We have too much CRAP.
this country is and always will be a consumber based society.... it's built into our psyche since birth ... but you are right ... it is >>>>> :c:
I have to say that you are both right. However, though I think Mach is correct and that this country seems determined to never learn better, surfer is even More correct.
Somehow, though, in light of global warming, even more important that getting rich is stopping the head long race to end this world.
Even if "it's built into our psyche since birth", we have to put forth the effort to reprogram our values if we expect to survive, not just as a nation, but as a world.
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quote:Originally posted by bdgee: I have to say that you are both right. However, though I think Mach is correct and that this country seems determined to never learn better, surfer is even More correct.
Somehow, though, in light of global warming, even more important that getting rich is stopping the head long race to end this world.
Even if "it's built into our psyche since birth", we have to put forth the effort to reprogram our values if we expect to survive, not just as a nation, but as a world.
we'll that is also a problem because the GOP and their followers are of the mindset of Me me me me me. Never about helping others in need or the earth or humankind in general. To them the environment should not be protected but exploited, global warming doesn't exist, f*ck the poor etc.. etc.. you get my meaning...
-------------------- Let the world change you... And you can change the world.
quote:To them the environment should not be protected but exploited, global warming doesn't exist, f*ck the poor etc.. etc.. you get my meaning...
Quite the contrary. Conservatives believe that EVERYONE should have the freedom to pursue success (or not). We do NOT believe that people should be given handouts so that they can be lazy. What has the left done for the poor - ENSLAVED THEM WITH HANDOUTS AND KEPT THEM IN POVERTY! Good job!
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