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wallymac
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"We are starting out with very big deficits, and the demographics are turning more unfavorable with all the baby boomer retirements," said Nigel Gault, senior economist at Global Insight, a Lexington, Mass., forecasting firm. "The deeper you get into the next presidency, the more likelihood that taxes will have to be raised."

No matter what either candidate says taxes will have to be raised. They can promise all they want just like Palin did when first running for mayor of Wasilla, but the realities always interfere and trump promises.

"And neither candidate is talking very much about tackling what all experts see as the biggest budgetary challenge facing the next president — the explosion in the government's big benefit programs for Social Security and Medicare as the baby boomers retire"

This is a huge problem and should be prominent in discussion during this campaign since the next President will have to deal with it. It is also a huge reason why taxes will have to be increased.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080908/ap_on_el_pr/candidates_economy;_ylt=AuxoDSpf kINNdsnPzQ557.Bh24cA

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Propertymanager
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You can't continue to increase taxes on an increasingly small pool of taxpayers and expect our economy to survive. What MUST be done is to cut spending in a HUGE way! Cut entitlements! Cut handouts! Raise the age to be elegible for social security! Cut earmarks! Lower taxes and decrease regulation of our remaining industries (so they will stay in the US)! Taxes simply won't do it.
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The Bigfoot
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I agree with cutting entitlements and handouts (but I know your definition and mine are far different.) I agree to limiting earmarks and making every project stand on its own merit. I also would agree to raising the age for SS by a year or two as long as there was 5 years lead time so folks can plan ahead.

And I agree to cutting spending in a HUGE way. You do understand though that the only section of the budget that CAN be cut in a big way is defense, right?

Lowering taxes? Bush made that impossible. He ran up the credit card like a college freshman and now the next guy in office will have to pay it off.

And deregulation? Uh...you are living in America right? That really hasn't work out very well so far now has it?

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No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.

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glassman
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what regulations would you have them cut PM?

be specific, cuz i hear this cutting regualtions mantra all the time, but nobody ever says which ones are destroying businesses...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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bdgee
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That's because they have no idea, glass. It makes them feel smart to claim to have a solution, but when it's nitty-gritty time, it all goes up in smoke.
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CashCowMoo
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Well I personally like the idea of going through every single program out there. Basically doing a massive in depth audit of the federal programs and spending and getting rid of the ones we dont need. I am sure there are so many worthless leeches out there that take just enough money annually to stay hidden under the radar. It will take some work and HONEST oversight if that is even possible these days.

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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jordanreed
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I'm just a stupid, old,decrepit, hard-working shlub, but would it help to get out of Iraq?


[Cool]

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jordan

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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by Propertymanager:
You can't continue to increase taxes on an increasingly small pool of taxpayers and expect our economy to survive. What MUST be done is to cut spending in a HUGE way! Cut entitlements! Cut handouts! Raise the age to be elegible for social security! Cut earmarks! Lower taxes and decrease regulation of our remaining industries (so they will stay in the US)! Taxes simply won't do it.

Tell your idols the GOP to stop spending like crazy...

Increasingly small pool of taxpayers? What planet are you living on... if I'm correct if any of us make $8,000 or more in a year we pay taxes...

Cut entitlements and handouts as you call them? Yah that makes sense... make the already dirt poor even dirt poorer so then we have a nationwide health crisis from the spread of disease and hunger...

decrease regulation? There is regulation because of rampant greed and corruption whenever "deregulation" is tried... history in this country and other countries has shown this... regulation is REACTIVE... eliminate greed and corruption and you may have your wish...

Raise the age for SS eligibility? ... it already is high enough... how about you tell your idols to stop dipping their beaks into SS funds for non-SS uses...

What part of Major Deficit do you not understand and how can it be paid off with tax decreases and increase spending?. Let me know Mr. Finance wizard...

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CashCowMoo
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I dont agree with lowering the SS age...its kind of high in my opinion. If the government was more responsible with it then it wouldnt even be a problem.

We do need deregulation in some areas. Why are so many going to Mexico! I am not saying just let them do whatever, but if you want to force regulations on industry then the govt needs to help them become compliant. They can help out or watch the industry say well F-U uncle same China will love it, Mexico is close, India wont bend me over.


I am not a fan of taxes, but we all need to pay our share which is why I dont favor tax cuts for one group. It should be equal, and not taxed on how successful you are. Maybe they should call it a prosperity and success tax. If you pursue the American dream and start a business and make great money you shouldnt be choked with a tax grip. Double taxing....oh that is what I hate the most.

My business takes in money, it gets taxed, and then that same money gets taxed AGAIN when I pay myself an income!! Now what the hell is that all about?

____________________________________________


"the U.S. Chamber of Commerce gives him (Obama) the lowest rating of any of the three major contenders for the Presidency, behind Senator Hillary Clinton (D-N.Y.) and Senator John McCain (R-Ariz.)."

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/feb2008/db20080212_645487.ht m?chan=top+news_top+news+index_top+story

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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Propertymanager
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quote:
Increasingly small pool of taxpayers? What planet are you living on... if I'm correct if any of us make $8,000 or more in a year we pay taxes...
You're kidding right? In 2006, a full 41% of the population paid no federal income tax! As the baby boomers retire, fewer and fewer people will be employed and the pool of taxpayers will decrease even more.

quote:
Cut entitlements and handouts as you call them? Yah that makes sense... make the already dirt poor even dirt poorer so then we have a nationwide health crisis from the spread of disease and hunger...
If the lazy weren't given handouts, they just might decide to WORK and contribute to society, instead of just being a drag on society.
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The Bigfoot
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The Chamber of Commerce is against anyone who mentions the word "raise taxes" CCM. You should see the ads they are running here in Minnesota against Al Franken. (Not saying I like Al Franken much)

Now...I am not for deregulation but there are some stupid rules that we could get rid of that would make it easier to run a business.

Like the butchering industry. Did you know they are federally mandated to have a bathroom that no one but their inspector can use?

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No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.

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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by Propertymanager:
You're kidding right? In 2006, a full 41% of the population paid no federal income tax! As the baby boomers retire, fewer and fewer people will be employed and the pool of taxpayers will decrease even more.

I don't know where you are getting your figure from (41%) but assuming you are right, I have no doubt that alot of those 41% are the wealthy themselves who look for loopholes or take advantage of provisions not meant for them...

Pool of taxpayers decrease? What about Generation X or whatever they call our generation who will and is taking the place of the Baby Boomers as taxpayers... I do not know about you but they/us have to work much like the Baby Boomers started working when they came of age...

quote:
If the lazy weren't given handouts, they just might decide to WORK and contribute to society, instead of just being a drag on society.
See, that is what you do not get. Not all that are given "handouts" are the lazy ones. Are there lazy ones? yes. Are they all Lazy who are given assistance by the Gov't? Hell no. All you do is call them lazy and not even provide figures to back up your claims. As for them working... did it ever occur to you that we have a high unemployment rate due to the fact that there is no jobs or very little jobs currently to employ everyone who is unemployed?... Create jobs to employ everyone then perhaps we can talk... til then some people need assistance... perhaps you will need that assistance someday if you can't get back on your feet and need to put food on the table...

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by The Bigfoot:
The Chamber of Commerce is against anyone who mentions the word "raise taxes" CCM. You should see the ads they are running here in Minnesota against Al Franken. (Not saying I like Al Franken much)

Now...I am not for deregulation but there are some stupid rules that we could get rid of that would make it easier to run a business.

Like the butchering industry. Did you know they are federally mandated to have a bathroom that no one but their inspector can use?

I had no idea there was a federal law mandating an inspectors only bathroom. What a waste of litigation..these people really are weird.

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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glassman
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well, let's see, in China they have most of the jobs that left the US, and they MUST have lower regulations because of it, RIGHT?

In addition, the city of Tangshan, one of China’s busiest steel centers, about 90 miles from Beijing, is ordering 267 businesses to suspend operations by Tuesday, according to Reuters. Of those, 66 small steel mills, coking operations, cement factories and small power generators will be closed, Reuters reported. The companies will be able to reopen at an unspecified date after undergoing an environmental review.

the olympics actaully went off pretty well, but the Chinese people have now seen with their own eyes and noses just how "lack of regulations" really impacts their lives...

bathrooms for inspectors is whacky...


however,

Inspectors are not the most popular folks at teh meat plant are they?

Ex-meat inspector describes factory
Oakland Tribune, Apr 29, 2004 by Glenn Chapman, STAFF WRITER

OAKLAND -- The San Leandro patriarch who made Santos Linguisa Factory sausage so popular readily complied with the very health regulations his heir claims drove him to fatally shoot three food inspectors, a retired "meat cop" told jurors Wednesday at Stuart Alexander's murder trial.

Alexander's father, Herman "Tweety" Alexander, was so cooperative that he would hop over smoldering oak wood in a brick smoke house the size of a walk-in closet to grab sausage links for federal meat inspectors, said Donald Pardini.

Alexander is charged with murdering federal and state food inspectors Bill Shaline, Jean Hillery of Alameda and Tom Quadros and trying to shoot dead a fourth, Earl Willis, for doing their jobs at Santos Linguisa Factory. If convicted as charged, 43-year-old Alexander would be eligible for the death penalty.


next time 50 people get an e.coli outbreak? people will wonder why the inspectors wern't doing thier jobs...

maybe they were napping in their private bathrooms? LOL...

ever seen a real puppy mill? USDA inspectors police them too...

these "pesky" regualtions are what you are complaining about PM...

if business is only about making money? then we should legalise heroin... i hear it's very profitable...
and methamphetamine too, i understand it increases productivity dramatically.

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:


My business takes in money, it gets taxed, and then that same money gets taxed AGAIN when I pay myself an income!! Now what the hell is that all about?


CCM, i just wanted to make sure you know about this before it's too late:

First-Year Bonus Depreciation Is Back

You may remember 50% first-year bonus depreciation from a few years ago. Thanks to the stimulus package, it's back for a return engagement — but only for new (not used) qualifying assets that are both acquired and placed in service during calendar year 2008. However, the placed-in-service deadline is extended through Dec. 31, 2009, for certain long-lived assets.

Under the 50% first-year bonus depreciation deal, your business can immediately deduct half of the cost of a new asset if it's purchased and placed in service during 2008. Then you can write off the remaining cost via the Section 179 deduction (if available) and/or regular depreciation deductions over the asset's designated "recovery period."

As you can see, the new law creates a real tax-saving windfall for small and medium-sized businesses that can take advantage of both the expanded Section 179 deduction privilege and 50% first-year bonus depreciation. Why? Because you can combine these two breaks to offset a big chunk, or maybe all, of your outfit's taxable income for the year.


http://www.smsmallbiz.com/taxes/New_Tax_Breaks_for_Small_Businesses.html

small business people who hire tax planners in this country usually do very well on their taxes...

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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bdgee
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Originally posted by CashCowMoo:


"My business takes in money, it gets taxed, and then that same money gets taxed AGAIN when I pay myself an income!! Now what the hell is that all about?"

It's about it being an income tax. It is income both times. Should you close the business, it belonging to you, the money left over is yours and had it not been taxed when it was, it would amount to income of yours that was never subject to income tax......not exactly fair to those of us who wouldn't have such tax dodge. (Actually, because of the fact that, as income tax rates increase with increase in income, you do get the advantage of having paid, in both the case of your business income and your paycheck income, at a lower rate because neither considered the other amount as income.)

While I'm at it,let's blow, once and for all, another huge and dangerous lie:

That idiotic crap of the right-wing claiming there is a so called "inheritances tax" is a lie!.


If you inherit a quite LARGE (I don't recall the amount now, but it is a sizable fortune that is required before any tax is taken from an inheritance) sum from someone, a relative or not, since that money was theirs and not yours before it became yours, it quite simply amounts to income for you (except for that amount that is exempt by other law) and it is taxed according to the normal income tax standards and procedures.

If that were not the case, then rich folks would be enjoying a tremendous tax loophole not available to the non-rich among us. (Actually, again, if you sit down an calculate the real savings to individuals, it is, once again, only the very rich who reap the most benefits from those exempt amounts before the rest counts as income.

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Lockman
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All the surplus social security money collected should be put into an interest bearing account and not be used for anything but social security payments. 10 years from now we could probably eliminate the social security tax. Problem solved!

Make Senators and Representatives make public which earmarks they support and why. Problem solved!

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
All the surplus social security money collected should be put into an interest bearing account and not be used for anything but social security payments. 10 years from now we could probably eliminate the social security tax. Problem solved!

Make Senators and Representatives make public which earmarks they support and why. Problem solved!

i like both ideas, but what do we invest it in?

mortgages would have been the "most secure" answer two years ago...

it would most definitley increase mortgage availability
BUT,
it would bring the mortgage industry under complete control of the US Gov.. i repeat COMPLETE.

d'oh wait, i guess that's what we are going to have anyway...

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bdgee
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quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
All the surplus social security money collected should be put into an interest bearing account and not be used for anything but social security payments. 10 years from now we could probably eliminate the social security tax. Problem solved!

Make Senators and Representatives make public which earmarks they support and why. Problem solved!

Sounds great!

Sadly, the reason the fund is in trouble now is not that it wasn't placed in an interest bearing account, but that it has been put into general funds in order to pay for Stevens' and Palin's "bridge to nowhere" and similar earmarks.

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bond006
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got an idea everybody has social security and that is the only federal retirement program there is military. elect officials,and Gov. employees
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Machiavelli
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quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
All the surplus social security money collected should be put into an interest bearing account and not be used for anything but social security payments. 10 years from now we could probably eliminate the social security tax. Problem solved!

Make Senators and Representatives make public which earmarks they support and why. Problem solved!

Interest bearing account is a good idea and not touching it except for payments... but SS tax being eliminated in 10 years is very doubtful... there is never enough money for such things so to keep it going the taxes have to keep going... as for where to put the money that earns interest... what about Gov't bonds?

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Let the world change you... And you can change the world.

Ernesto "Che" Guevara de la Serna

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ohio_trader
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personal income tax goes to pay for interest on the national debt, which is being paid to those that have most interest in the federal reserve
( and those who ran off with your gas money speculating oil, and ran off with homeowners $ equity in this mortgage debacle)

corporate tax takes care of 98% of infrustructure requirements in our country: including going to war

so where does the real problem lie, screw the federal reserve billionaires and say we pay them ZERO interest on the national debt and start fresh

kinda like those that stole approximately 125-150 billion dollars from fannie mae and freddie mac, and they (govt) are overlooking it and starting fresh

go to a national sales tax,and down size or
eliminate the federal reserves' role on our monetary system

much easier to keep a budget, and accountability

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buckstalker
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While we are at it...why don't we eliminate the IRS too....

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