posted
Russian tanks 'rolling into Georgian breakaway' NEW: Georgia says it has shot down two Russian aircraft Russian TV shows tanks and troops moving towards Georgia Russian authorities said several of its peacekeepers died in a Georgian attack Vladimir Putin warned Russia would respond to Georgia's actions
TBLISI, Georgia (CNN) -- Georgia's president said Friday that his country is under attack from Russian tanks and warplanes, and he accused Russia of targeting civilian populations as tensions over the breakway Georgian region of South Ossetia appeared to boil over into full-blown conflict.
"All day today they've been bombing Georgia from numerous warplanes and specifically targeting (the) civilian population, and we have scores of wounded and dead among (the) civilian population all around the country," Mikhail Saakashvili told CNN in an exclusive interview.
Saakashvili also said Georgian troops had shot down two Russian aircraft.
Asked whether Georgia and Russia were now at war, he said, "My country is in self-defense against Russian aggression. Russian troops invaded Georgia."
Russian television showed a convoy of Russian tanks and said they were heading into the South Ossetia region. Watch the Russian tanks moving into the area »
The move came after Russia denounced as "aggressive" a Georgian troops military offensive to regain control over the province, vowing to respond.
Russian authorities earlier said several of its peacekeepers died in a Georgian attack in South Ossetia, which borders Russia and has strong ties to its vast northern neighbor, and they vowed not to leave Russian citizens in the territory unprotected. Watch more about NATO's attempts to help Georgia »
"The Georgian leadership has launched a dirty adventure," a statement from Russia's Defense Ministry said on Friday. "We will not leave our peacekeepers and Russian citizens unprotected."
Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin said Georgia started the fighting and warned that Russia would respond to their actions.
"Heavy weapons and artillery have been sent there, and tanks have been added. Deaths and injuries have been reported, including among Russian peacekeepers," Putin said in comments carried Friday by Russia's Interfax news agency.
"It's all very sad and alarming. And, of course, there will be a response."
Earlier Friday, Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili said in a televised statement that Russian aircraft bombed several Georgian villages and other civilian facilities.
He added that there were injuries and damage to buildings. "A full-scale aggression has been launched against Georgia," he said.
A Georgian official reported that seven people were hurt in the attack, the Associated Press said.
Saakashvili urged Russia to immediately stop bombing Georgian territory. "Georgia will not yield its territory or renounce its freedom," he said.
He also called for the full-scale mobilization of Georgian reserve forces as fighting continued to rage in South Ossetia's capital.
Meanwhile, NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer issued a statement Friday saying he was seriously concerned about the recent events in the region, and called on "all sides to end armed clashes and begin direct talks."
The United States also urged all sides to bring an immediate end to the violence. "The U.S. has been in discussions for many months with all parties to find a peaceful resolution," White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe said.
"We urge all sides to refrain from violence and to begin direct talks."
Russian peacekeepers are in South Ossetia under a 1992 agreement by Russian, Georgian, and South Ossetian authorities to maintain what has been a fragile peace. The mixed peacekeeping force also includes Georgian and South Ossetian troops.
The latest events came just hours after the U.N. Security Council finished an emergency session to discuss a dramatic escalation of violence in Georgia and South Ossetia. The session ended Friday morning without a statement about the fighting.
Violence has been mounting in the region in recent days, with sporadic clashes between Georgian forces and South Ossetian separatists. South Ossetia declared its independence from Georgia in the early 1990s, but its independence is not internationally recognized.
Georgian troops launched new attacks in South Ossetia late Thursday after a top government official said a unilateral cease-fire offer was met with separatist artillery fire.
"The objective of the operation is to protect the civilian population, to ensure their security and then convince the separatists that there is not a military solution to this conflict," said Alexander Lomaia, the secretary of Georgia's National Security Council.
Lomaia said Georgian troops were responding proportionately to separatist mortar and artillery attacks on two villages -- attacks he said followed the cease-fire and call for negotiations by Saakashvili.
The official news agency of the South Ossetian government reported heavy shelling in the territory's capital, Tskhinvali, that left dozens of buildings ablaze.
About 2,000 Georgian troops attempted to storm Tskhinvali overnight and were regrouping south of the city, according to Russia's ITAR-TASS news agency.
Around 10 a.m. Friday, Georgia said Russian military aircraft violated Georgian airspace and dropped two bombs on Kareli, a part of Georgia that is about 50 miles northwest of the capital, Tblisi, and is not in the conflict zone, said Shota Utiashvili, spokesman for the Georgian Ministry of Interior.
Georgia, located on the Black Sea coast between Russia and Turkey, has been split by Russian-backed separatist movements in South Ossetia and another region, Abkhazia.
Georgian and South Ossetian negotiators had been scheduled to meet Friday in Tskhinvali, Moscow's chief negotiator, Yuri Popov, told the Russian news agency Interfax.
Saakashvili announced Thursday night that he had ordered his troops to cease fire while the negotiators met, but Lomaia said the call was met with more attacks.
In addition, Lomaia said, hundreds of "mercenaries" -- or "volunteers," as the South Ossetians described them -- are pouring across the border from Russia to join the fight.
-- Journalist Elene Gotsadze contributed to this report.
-------------------- When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross. Sinclair Lewis Posts: 2166 | From: St. Louis | Registered: Feb 2005
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Duma wants Putin to back Georgian separatists The Associated Press Published: March 21, 2008
MOSCOW: Parliament on Friday urged the Kremlin to consider recognizing the independence of two separatist regions in neighboring Georgia, stepping up Moscow's campaign to keep the former Soviet republic out of NATO.
The lower house of Parliament, the State Duma, voted overwhelmingly to adopt a statement calling on President Vladimir Putin and the government to "consider the question of the expediency of recognizing the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia."
The statement also says the government should speed up efforts to support the sovereignty of the two regions in case Georgia "accelerated" its drive to join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, suggesting that Moscow should move swiftly toward recognizing the regions if the alliance puts Georgia on track for membership at a meeting next month.
The vote was 440 to 0 in the 450-seat chamber.
The statement calls on the government to increase support for Abkhazia and South Ossetia, which broke away from Georgian government control after the 1991 Soviet breakup and have made renewed calls for international recognition since Kosovo's Western-backed declaration of independence.
posted
We didn't "win" the cold war, we simply survived it, while the U.S.S.R did not (which may offer a realistic definition of "winning" a war).
Bush lost us the chance to not have to fight several wars of the future (i.e., providing us several chances to loose a war), since it will be at least decades before most of the world will trust us again, thus disallowing diplomatic successes and avoidance of war.
Posts: 10357 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by bdgee: We didn't "win" the cold war, we simply survived it, while the U.S.S.R did not (which may offer a realistic definition of "winning" a war).
Bush lost us the chance to not have to fight several wars of the future (i.e., providing us several chances to loose a war), since it will be at least decades before most of the world will trust us again, thus disallowing diplomatic successes and avoidance of war.
OBAMA will save us all! guess you haven't heard.
-------------------- Let's Go METS!!! Posts: 2029 | From: CT | Registered: Dec 2006
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However, suppose dubya wins a third term. Then, whatever ls is going on in the world, we will still be tied down in Iraq, assured of pretty good chance of loosing and still in almost total disfavor with most of the nations of the World.
Posts: 10357 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by kermit42: Jesus, you liberals! Russia invades Georgia and the first bodies aren't even cold before you find a way to blame Bush?!?
When I saw the topic I was hoping to see a little intelligent thinking, but I was disappointed.
you're right kermit, this isn't the return of the USSR and Bush has been the consumate diplomat... Putin doesn't have lying eyes and NATO will still get a new member....
seriuolsy? you beleive i'm just being a pundit?
Iskander Missile Systems, Strategic Bombers May Be Stationed in Belarus - Russian Ambassador MINSK. Aug 6 (Interfax) - Iskander missile systems or strategic bombers may be stationed in Belarus in response to the placement of the U.S. ABM system elements in the Czech Republic and Poland, said Russian Ambassador to Belarus Alexander Surikov.
"Are Belarus and Russia bound by the 1994 treaty [on the withdrawal of nuclear weapons from Belarus]? Of which the U.S. was a guarantor. No one can breach the treaty, but issues relating to anti- missile activities can be considered," Surikov told a press conference in Minsk.
"Among these issues is the possibility of placing Iskander missile systems in Belarus and the possible placement of strategic bombers in Belarus, Kaliningrad, etc.," he said.
"All these actions can be discussed after the U.S. has signed a treaty with Poland, and then various response measures, including the placement of nuclear weapons, can be taken," the ambassador said.
it's not about punditry for me, i'm just observing causes and effects...
Russia mulls arms in Belarus to counter U.S. shield Wed Aug 6, 2008 10:06am EDT
The United States have unnerved Moscow by its plans to install elements of its missile defense system in Poland and the Czech Republic, a measure Washington believes is needed to avert possible missile strikes from Iran.
Moscow says U.S. plans pose a threat to Russia's national security.
as for winning or losing the cold war? the "win" was a peaceful resolution....
Top Russian generals had earlier speculated that Moscow could deploy its new Iskander-M tactical surface-to surface missiles to counter the U.S. missile shield.
if it really is just Surface to Surface missiles (which i don't believe) then they are not reacting inapropriately...
-------------------- Of the People, by the People and For the People. Posts: 27931 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
It isn't a political matter of blaming dubya, it is reality.
That liar and crook, under full protection (to this day!!!!) by and with full cooperation of the republican party has buried the respect for th U.S. and hope for avoiding war so deep in the s--t pile of party first fascism the whole world shakes and whimpers with any hint of aggression anywhere, by anyone.
Posts: 10357 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote:Originally posted by bdgee: It isn't a political matter of blaming dubya, it is reality.
That liar and crook, under full protection (to this day!!!!) by and with full cooperation of the republican party has buried the respect for th U.S. and hope for avoiding war so deep in the s--t pile of party first fascism the whole world shakes and whimpers with any hint of aggression anywhere, by anyone.
Sorry, but WTF are you talking about? What does that post have to do with the topic of this thread? Not picking fight, but lost on your logic.
-------------------- When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross. Sinclair Lewis Posts: 2166 | From: St. Louis | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
U.S., Poland strike missile deal while Russia objects
Wed July 2, 2008
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The United States and Poland have reached a tentative deal to place part of a ballistic missile defense system on its territory, a plan that has drawn sharp objections from Russia, a senior administration official said Wednesday.
The Bush administration has long pushed to base missile interceptors in Poland. The interceptor rockets would be linked to an air-defense radar system in the Czech Republic, where officials agreed in April to take part in the system.
The interceptors in the Czech Republic could identify and shoot down missiles fired by Iran at Europe or the United States. Russia fervently opposes basing the interceptors right across its border and says the system's real target would be Russian missiles, according to Time magazine.
For months, it appeared that Poland would easily accept U.S. plans. Undoubtedly, Poland is a strong U.S. ally and a vital contributor to transatlantic security, contributing a sizable contingency in Afghanistan and a vocal lobby for future eastward expansion of NATO. However, seeking millions of dollars in military aid, Polish Prime Minister Donald Tusk rebuffed the latest U.S. offer on July 4.
To make matters more complicated, Polish Petroleum and Gas Mining (PGNiG), 85 percent of which is owned by the Polish state, is looking to Tehran as a source of energy. On June 30, the Polish daily Rzeczpospolita reported that PGNiG was "close" to securing a contract to extract liquefied natural gas (LNG) from Iran's Lavan gas field. While the United States fears a nuclear-armed Iran, Poland is weighing this risk against its own national security agenda -- to reduce its overwhelming dependence on Russian energy imports. Considering that total Polish demand for gas is expected to double to 24.4 billion cubic meters by mid-decade, the Polish government is reluctant to increase volumes of Russian gas. After a Russian-Ukrainian price dispute in January 2006 reduced Polish gas imports by 9 percent for several days, diversifying away from Russian gas sources looks more prudent.
posted
'If the US and Poland ultimately reach an agreement on the installation of the missile defence system, Russia will need to consider what steps to undertake and what decisions to make', Alexander Surikov, the Russian ambassador to Belarus, said in Minsk yesterday.
According to Mr Surikov, such a response could be for Russia to deploy to Belarus and the Kaliningrad enclave its ground-ground Iskander-M missiles with which the Russian armed forces are currently being equipped. The Iskanders-M in the Kaliningrad enclave would be aimed at the Polish missile defence base, and those in Belarus - at the radar base the Czechs have already agreed to host. Russia would also move strategic bombers to bases in Belarus and around the city of Kaliningrad.
Russian generals made similar threats as Mr Surikov last year. In August, Col Gen Nikolai Bordyuzha, Secretary General of the Collective Security Treaty Organisation (a military pact of the CIS, with members including Russia, Armenia, Belarus, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, and Uzbekistan), said that the US missile defence project should be responded to with a 'new international military structure resembling Soviet military structures'.
The prospect of close military cooperation with Russia suits Belarussian president Alexander Lukashenko, who has reacted equally angrily to the US plans. Russia operates in Belarus a radiolocation base called Volga in the town of Gantsevichi, and a navy remote control centre in Vileika, Mink region.
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"i don't trust Russia, never did... nor do i trust China, and i am not convinced we should be doing business with either of them..."
I agree. We quit doing business with either of them, and their economies collapse. It's like a new "detente", but economic based.
Weird times we live in
-------------------- When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross. Sinclair Lewis Posts: 2166 | From: St. Louis | Registered: Feb 2005
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the power brokers want to "do business" while saying they are "spreading freedom", yet it's our citizens freedoms that seem to be disappearing.
we funded the Afghani Mujhahadeen (no evidence that i have seen has turned up that we funded osama personally) in a direct attempt sucker the USSR deeper into a war there...
it worked... the USSR lost 50,000 men and went BKRPT... the cold war ended...
we used the Paki's as a conduit, and in return for their "help" we "allowed" them to develop nuclear weapons and helped them by training their scientists in our US and British universities...
then they sold secrets to N Korea and Iran...the guy who did it is a national hero and was pardoned...
meanwhile? we decided to industrialise China which is also communist and pretend that we are helping free their people?
old Soviet Joke: "We pretend to work, they pretend to pay us"... that's the "evil commies"...
the "good commies" work cheap...
and wars in the mideast make oil prices go uo...
-------------------- Of the People, by the People and For the People. Posts: 27931 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by bdgee: It isn't a political matter of blaming dubya, it is reality.
That liar and crook, under full protection (to this day!!!!) by and with full cooperation of the republican party has buried the respect for th U.S. and hope for avoiding war so deep in the s--t pile of party first fascism the whole world shakes and whimpers with any hint of aggression anywhere, by anyone.
Sorry, but WTF are you talking about? What does that post have to do with the topic of this thread? Not picking fight, but lost on your logic.
Truthfully, it certainly looks to be that you are too picking a fight.....or at least trying to.
"Sorry, but WTF are you talking about?", you ask?
Read the thread and find out.
"What does that post have to do with the topic of this thread?", you asked?
If you had bothered to read the thread, you would have seen that it is a direct response to the post just two before it in the thread, just as th post immediately preceding is.
Now, I have a couple of questions that I will pose in bit more polite manner.
When was there a rule put into effect that there is some boundary to the subject or content of post in a thread in Off Topics at Allstocks?
Who appointed you to leadership of the "Thread Police"?
Posts: 10357 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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Can we please have world war three now? I am getting just a bit tired of all the anticipation... Every minor stir in any quadrant erupts into nothing more than ratings for the 24/7's... can we please have a real skirmish between good and evil?
Posts: 1612 | Registered: Aug 2005
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Screw it....lets back Georgia and lets give the Russians a pounding and good ol fashion USA butt whooping that they have had coming to them for decades.
posted
Georgia sent troops to Iraq. Sure they only had about 2,000 there but they helped! Now they are getting crushed and where are we?? Doesn't seem right.
Posts: 1394 | From: Ohio | Registered: Mar 2004
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I am not in favor of preemptive strikes. I have made that clear before. Russia is crushing a democratic elected country. So Bush says. Are we just all rhetoric?? Russia is a big country so no standing up for the little guy I guess.
Posts: 1394 | From: Ohio | Registered: Mar 2004
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We don't.. and we can't. At this point we are as bad as them and their actions right now are nothing short of what we would have done had they been arming one of our former territories. Fact of the matter is we are just as much to blame for this as anyone. This is the price of all our BS. We.. just like them.. run around.. sneak around thwarting progress.. encouraging back stabbing. We are deceitful and we encourage that in everyone else with our two faced dealings with the world. This idiotic notion that everyone is our enemy and we need to control them through either force of covert psyops will end this species for all.
Posts: 1612 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
The moronic idea that we are somehow needed to spread "Freedom" and "Democracy" to every corner of the world when we here haven't seen it's like in over a hundred years is exactly what brings on conflicts like this.
Posts: 1612 | Registered: Aug 2005
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the project is so bankrupt they've even failed to pay their bills: www.newamericancentury.org/ This Account Has Been Suspended Please contact the billing/support department as soon as possible.
-------------------- Of the People, by the People and For the People. Posts: 27931 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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Close Window Georgia says Russia bombed after order to halt war Tuesday, August 12, 2008 TBILISI, Georgia - Russia ordered a halt to the war in Georgia on Tuesday, after five days of air and land attacks that sent Georgia's army into headlong retreat and left towns, military bases and homes in the U.S. ally smoldering. Georgia insisted that Russian forces were still bombing and shelling.
Despite the televised order by Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, Russia launched an offensive Tuesday in Abkhazia, sending tanks, armored personnel carriers and artillery toward the breakaway region.
Georgian troops were forced out of their last stronghold in the separatist province, said Maj. Gen. Anatoly Zaitsev, a defense official in Abkhazia. The claim that Georgian forces were gone could not immediately be confirmed.
And hours before the order to stop fighting, Russian jets bombed the crossroads city of Gori, near the separatist region of South Ossetia. Gori's post office and university were burning Tuesday, but the city was all but deserted after most remaining residents and Georgian soldiers fled Monday ahead of a feared Russian onslaught.
In Moscow, Medvedev said Georgia had been punished enough for its attack on South Ossetia. Georgia launched an offensive late Thursday to regain control over the separatist province, which has close ties to Russia.
"The aggressor has been punished and suffered very significant losses. Its military has been disorganized," Medvedev said.
Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili, speaking before a crowd of thousands at a Tbilisi square, said the invasion was not because Russia wanted control of the breakaway regions.
"They just don't want freedom and that's why they want to stamp on Georgia and destroy it," he said, as red and white Georgian fluttered.
Tens of thousands of terrified residents have fled the fighting - South Ossetians north to Russia, and Georgians west toward the capital of Tbilisi and east to the country's Black Sea coast.
Both sides have traded accusations of genocide and ethnic cleansing.
Russia has accused Georgia of killing more than 2,000 people, mostly civilians, in the separatist province of South Ossetia. The claim couldn't be independently confirmed, but witnesses who fled the area over the weekend said hundreds had died.
Many Georgians also have been killed in the fighting and on Tuesday, the Georgian security council said it filed a lawsuit in the International Court of Justice for alleged ethnic cleansing. The overall death toll was expected to rise because large areas of Georgia were still too dangerous for journalists to enter and see the true scope of the damage.
"It feels like an annexed country," said Lasha Margiana, the local administrator in one of the villages in the Kodori Gorge, where fleeing Georgians said the entire population had abandoned their homes.
Zaitsev, the commander in Abkhazia, said only local forces - not Russian ones - were involved in the operation
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