quote:Originally posted by jgrecoconstr: "Take yor taco and go home" is that a racist remark really? sorry if I don't speak politacally correct.
Tell me your ethnic background of where your ancestors came from in Europe or wherever and let me come up with a similar statement that offends you.Then tell me if it's racist or not. And it has nothing to do with political correctness. Racism is about what you make the other person feel who you direct your attacks upon.
quote:Lastly..... it's not my hangup people speak spanish my hang up is why in this country does it need to be printed everywhere, and options everywhere.
Yes, it is your hangup that we CHOOSE and not FORCED to speak spanish in this country. You said it yourself to speak english or get out.
quote:There never was options for italians, germans.etc.etc.
Actually when I bought electronics throughout my childhood, the Handbook manuals came in more then 1 language other then spanish such as french (which i found a odd language to dominate the manuals) & btw in NYC at least because their is a subway system when you go buy your Metrocards from the machine you have a option of several languages including italian and I think German as well as others.
quote: it's all about appeasment about getting theri votes so lets make them feel at home, it's all about sometime back who knows when some individual felt his civil liberties were violated because he couldn't read english. I don't believe it has one thing to do with marketing. it has all the more to do with liability because they can sue because the instructions weren't in spanish. You see it over and over again. In god we trust.... pictures on driving licsences...pledge of allegiance.
Where do you get this stuff? lol I didn't know my family could vote Corporations into Congress or the Presidency And as far as I know there isn't any Court case in the past or present as to not having spanish on packages or as a option on phones etc. as a violation of civil liberties or one that ended in favor of the hispanic person in the case. If there is one, please show us so we may read it.
They can sue if instructions are not in spanish? I haven't seen it but could of happened.But let me ask you this? If the instructions such as filling out a drivers license application is all in spanish ,which you of course you are not going to read ,why does that bother you so? YOUR NOT READING IT!.
A picture is in spanish? If you mean i look hispanic on my drivers license you are correct. I have hispanic features because I am of Costa Rican descent. Can't help that lol
And yes it is all about marketing because the one thing you seem to forget is that Hispanics CONTRIBUTE billions and billions of dollars to this country's economy which if you haven't noticed lately it needs. Losing those dollars is not a option right now or ever. So no, Corporations are not out to get Hispanics to vote in elections. The one and true thing about this country is the all mighty dollar and always will be. Everything else is secondary if they are even thought of.
Particularly read the part about Language where it says: In all, A FULL 90% of all Hispanic and Latino Americans speak English, and at least 78% of all Hispanic and Latino Americans speak Spanish.[45]
Btw my spanish is horrendous but it's passable for me to communicate with my family and when i travel to Costa Rica or other places. But the one thing my parents never did was FORCE me to learn either spanish or english. They let me CHOOSE for myself. But as I am older now I am going to make the choice to relearn spanish properly and not for any reason other then i do not want to be monolingual like you do but because I want to be more cultured (I am learning other languages on my own as well though it's not easy). This country lacks culture imo compared to european and other countries around the world and that to me is sad.
Anyways a very small percentage of hispanics do not speak english or some english. And their kids and further generations do learn it so you have a unfounded fear of non english speaking hispanics. It was the same thing with the Poles, Italians, Jews, etc. of the 1800's immigrants. The first ones to arrive did not speak english but their kids or their kids did and integrated into American society. The same with hispanics.
-------------------- Money Never Sleeps Pal.
Greed, for the lack of a better word is GOOD. Posts: 3671 | Registered: Mar 2004
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There is quite a bit of difference between many of the immigrants in the last 30+years and the immigrants prior to that. (especially illegal and green card ones which are hard to separate sometimes)
The attitudes of many that i have been around in California and a few other states are that of what they "Expect" rather than what they should do to get certain privledges and that does include their kids learning the English language.
Most all immigrants should have to learn the English language if they live and work here for years which is far from what happens these days.
I think things will change some if the economy and the stock market continue there path for awhile. I always thought they were one in the same until the last few years.
Posts: 2520 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Most all immigrants should have to learn the English language if they live and work here for years which is far from what happens these days.
First, I wasn't speaking of illegal immigrants but legal immigrants past and present.
NO ONE should do anything they do not want to.This is suppose to be a free country and once you FORCE someone to do something against their will it ceases to be a free country.
My parents have lived here since the early 1970's and have their citizenship. And one thing you and everyone forget is that english is not a easy language to learn even though we take that for granted because we speak it. My father has tried to learn english in earnest since he first came to the U.S. and no matter what he just cannot grasp it well but nonetheless he has integrated into American society quite well. Owning his own barbershop business, getting his citizenship etc. He speaks broken english and i admire him for at least trying to learn but i by no means will condemn him because he does not speak it fluently. It's a shame that you and others would because he doesn't.
The ironic thing is that Americans are arrogant enough that they "expect" english to be spoken or used on products/road signs etc. in other countries they travel or live in but they condemn when it's done in the U.S. Really I have to laugh at that. The irony escapes their mind apparently.
Like I said the only ones who do not speak english or speak it well are new immigrants not their children and further generations and your fear of this new immigrant group is as irrational as past generations who condemned the new immigrants of the industrial age like Germans, Italians, Irish, Poles etc. History has shown that they integrated themselves into American society quite well then and in further generations and that "fear" Americans had back then were irrational as it is now.
That drivers license application in spanish at the DMV, that message on the customer service line that is less then 10 seconds to choose 1 or 2 for english or spanish, those few words of spanish on a can of food in the supermarket etc. You have a CHOICE and that choice is to ignore it. There is no reason for you to pick up the drive license application in spanish, you can choose 1 for english which takes less then a millisecond to press, the words of spanish on a Can are to the right or below of the english words and can be easily ignored etc. In the grand scheme of things it is a silly issue that has no bearing on our lives other then ignorance and annoyance by close minded people. We have far more important issues that do affect us in our daily lives now like high oil prices, inflation, recession, stock/financial market instabilities, increased national debt due to a unpopular war etc.. etc... For once ask yourself where your priorities rest and if you really are that self centered and shallow to really care about such a issue as language and not other issues.
Again Iwish and others... i suggest you read those 2 links I have posted to understand this more...
-------------------- Money Never Sleeps Pal.
Greed, for the lack of a better word is GOOD. Posts: 3671 | Registered: Mar 2004
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We come from different generations and different backgrounds.
What does arrogance have to do with anything in this case. Of course we went through a similiar point a long time ago when you first came on this board.
If i were to have gone to another country to work and live in the past would i have expected that country to teach their language to me or for them to cater to me because i decide not to learn the language in that country ... Good Luck.
In fact if i were to go now to another country to live and work i would learn that countries language but that is just me.
I cannot imagine expecting someone else to cater to me in this case.
In the past in this country you could get by a lot easier if you did not speak English because of the farms and large families and the kids were forced to learn the language and translate for their parents.
Well i should resay that, it's actually easier now for those who choose not to read and speak English. That is because everyone else is required to cater to those who choose not to learn the language and that does include legals with a green card and those without which seems to be the majority in these cases.
These days we require many schools in areas like CA. to teach their kids English and instructors to be bi-lingual.
You talk about drivers licenses, again state jobs which means more taxpayers money spent for people who choose not to learn the language.
Why would it make any differance if they are legal or illegal if it is the same problem?
When i use the word force i do not mean the gov. or a gun. What i mean is that we make it so easy for them not to speak and read the language these days by giving them so many ways to avoid learning it at taxpayers expense.
If they did not have these tools most would learn the English language or go back to their native countries because they would not survive here.
What businesses do for this problem is their business as long as they are not gov. substadized, of course that does not seem to make any differance.
Posts: 2520 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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You know I honestly want to stop replying on this and never come back but....... I can't. Since I have to get to work I can't go back and read all the previous posts. I believe in my first post is was spanish writing evrywhere, not hearing it but being forced to see it to sort through a product to find english. That said it means learn nglish or go home. You twisted my statement to fit your opinion. Insdtruction manuals I agree I have always seen them in multi langauge no problem with that. It's packaging, it's the fact I called my c/c company last night and the first thing I hear was spanish, option 2 was english. Civil liberties, I'm sure if not positive there was a case I'm not going to spend time looking for one. I have my own small publishing company as well as two other businesses. Will I publish in Spanish..... never. Will I put instructions in spanish for my rental for directions? never. Will I hire someone who can't read or speak english for a construction job? never. Do I car if there are immagrants here? no I don't just learn the language it's that simple. As far as drivers license and pledge of allegience thos were put out there because they had nothing to do with spanish. The license remark was from the muslim woman who didn't want to take here scarf off. Another example of someone who comes here and wants to change the way things are done to fit there needs. In that case religion. The pledge and in god we trust...... again violating someones civil liberties because they don't want to read that on their money or here it said. That's how we americans do things. You don't like it don't come here. Why you don't understand that I have no idea. I say one thing about taco and you call me a racist. In each and every post you replied to (chose not to ignore) you have insulted me from the get go. Can't read, history limited, chit for brains, lazy stereotypical american, theres a few more look them up. I'm italian, Irish, English and Indian. Call me what ever you want you already have been doing that. Call me a mutt but in that mutt lineage is an american relative who fought in every war this country had and every one of the spoke english and learned to read it. If you want to prove your right do the poll. Forget it I'll do it myself.
Posts: 203 | From: new york | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by jgrecoconstr: You know I honestly want to stop replying on this and never come back but....... I can't.
That is a choice of which you do not want to give others apparently.
quote:I believe in my first post is was spanish writing evrywhere, not hearing it but being forced to see it to sort through a product to find english.
I don't know about you but the first words i see on any product are English. Spanish is followed after it or next to it. Steer your eyes to the top or left and block all else. It's that simple.
quote: That said it means learn nglish or go home.
Till there is a amendment that says no other language is to be spoken in this country this is the home of all those who speak another language. Sorry, if you want a speak english only country then move to a island with like minded people. Oddly enough this problem does not seem to present themselves in other more civilized nations like the UK, Australia etc. where tolerance & acceptance seems more prevalent.
quote: You twisted my statement to fit your opinion. Insdtruction manuals I agree I have always seen them in multi langauge no problem with that. It's packaging,
Guess, what? That Can of food with more then 1 language is also called packaging
quote: it's the fact I called my c/c company last night and the first thing I hear was spanish, option 2 was english.
Must be really difficult to listen to 10 seconds or less of a message that gives you a option and pressing #2.
quote:Civil liberties, I'm sure if not positive there was a case I'm not going to spend time looking for one.
You mentioned it in your post so imo you should present one like Glass and others do when they say such things themselves.
quote:I have my own small publishing company as well as two other businesses.
Congratulations, I admire business owners who do not have to answer to a boss like my father.
quote: Will I publish in Spanish..... never. Will I put instructions in spanish for my rental for directions? never. Will I hire someone who can't read or speak english for a construction job? never.
That is your choice. Your missing out on a great business opportunity and you do not see that. Too bad. We all need to increase our incomes in these bad economic times. But anywayts that is what is great about this country, we have CHOICES. You do not seem to grasp that. The Choices we make are due to this country being "free". When we are not allowed choices then this country ceases to be Free. You want to take away choices to others but not to yourself.
quote:Do I car if there are immagrants here? no I don't just learn the language it's that simple.
You learn a language on your own then you tell me if it's "that simple". I already told you my father has been in this country over 30 years and trying to learn the language all those years. It's not a easy language like you think and some people just don't grasp it. And yes you do care that immigrants are here. To me at least you are very anti immigrant whether this issue existed or not about language.
quote:As far as drivers license and pledge of allegience thos were put out there because they had nothing to do with spanish.
I don't know about everyone else but reading your previous post it seemed like you saying things were spoken or written in spanish such as the Pledge and Drivers license. If that is not what you meant then my bad.
quote: The license remark was from the muslim woman who didn't want to take here scarf off. Another example of someone who comes here and wants to change the way things are done to fit there needs. In that case religion.
Ever hear of Freedom of Religion? It did not say Freedom of Christian Religion only. Isn't it a wonderful country that you can practice your religion freely though you do not want anyone to do so except you apparently. This is what happened in England with the Puritans, Quakers etc. when they tried to suppress their right to practice their religion including what garments they wear. I think your problem with that woman is that she is Muslim and has nothing to do with anything else. I do not know your religion but I would bet that if your religion requires you to wear some sort of garment you would not want that right of yours to be infringed. So read it again: FREEDOM OF RELIGION. That is the American way not the Christian way.
Btw that case of the Muslim woman, I don't think it had to do with a drivers license though if it is then I have not read about it. I was thinking you meant the muslim woman or women at the Obama's political rally. But again show us the case so we can read it.
quote:The pledge and in god we trust...... again violating someones civil liberties because they don't want to read that on their money or here it said.
Not everyone believes in God and shouldn't be forced to bow down to him if they do not believe in Him wouldn't you agree? Afterall would you want to be forced to bow down to Sheba, Buddha (though he's not a God per say), Allah (though he really is the same God but we forget that)etc. if that is not what you believe in. Again it all comes down to Freedom of Choice. If we do not have Freedoms then we might as well be China , Zimbawe (read about them lately and their 1 man election?) etc.
quote: That's how we americans do things. You don't like it don't come here. Why you don't understand that I have no idea.
The American Way you seem to not understand is not a forced way. England when were there colony forced us to their ways without choices. You seem to not understand that. You really do take for granted what Freedoms you have and what Freedoms people do not have in other countries.I think you should read the Bill of Rights in the Constitution as well as the Declaration of Independence. I'll help you out: "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are CREATED EQUAL, that they are endowed by THEIR Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are LIFE, LIBERTY and the pursuit of HAPPINESS." Their creator is whomever they think their God is whether God, Buddha, Allah, Sheba etc.
quote: I say one thing about taco and you call me a racist. In each and every post you replied to (chose not to ignore) you have insulted me from the get go. Can't read, history limited, chit for brains, lazy stereotypical american, theres a few more look them up.
The racist remark was uncalled for. Yes, i insulted you and with due purpose but not once did i bring your race into it. Racism again is how you make the other person feel who you attack with your statement. If you want to call me a name like a azz or something similar to my insults to you that is fine because I am not bringing race into it. But I did say you can't read because you ignore some things i say, I did say your history is limited because you only seem to focus on the 13 original states and not seem to acknowledge the rest of the country that was settled by others, I did say the "chit for brains" remarks but that was out of anger from your race remark & Glass did say to you that was just out right rude though to me it was racist, and I did call you lazy because this is such a non issue about language and you only have to ignore the packaging words or press #2 which takes no time at all.
quote:I'm italian, Irish, English and Indian. Call me what ever you want you already have been doing that. Call me a mutt but in that mutt lineage is an american relative who fought in every war this country had and every one of the spoke english and learned to read it. If you want to prove your right do the poll. Forget it I'll do it myself.
I won't say a racist remark to you. Was just trying to make a point to you and show you that it was a racist remark. Judging by your lineage I could say plenty of similar remarks to you that you did to me because of my race. As for your ancestors, not for nothing but I doubt all of them spoke english particularly the italian ones & perhaps the indian ones as well. You did not live in those time to say for certain they all spoke english. And I am quite surprised in your views that want to suppress freedoms since Indians pretty much had no freedoms throughout their history since the creation of this country till the mid to late 20th century perhaps. And also the discrimination that italians and irish experienced during the industrial age. You my friend are a mystery to me.
-------------------- Money Never Sleeps Pal.
Greed, for the lack of a better word is GOOD. Posts: 3671 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: We come from different generations and different backgrounds.
What does arrogance have to do with anything in this case. Of course we went through a similiar point a long time ago when you first came on this board.
If i were to have gone to another country to work and live in the past would i have expected that country to teach their language to me or for them to cater to me because i decide not to learn the language in that country ... Good Luck.
In fact if i were to go now to another country to live and work i would learn that countries language but that is just me.
I cannot imagine expecting someone else to cater to me in this case.
In the past in this country you could get by a lot easier if you did not speak English because of the farms and large families and the kids were forced to learn the language and translate for their parents.
Well i should resay that, it's actually easier now for those who choose not to read and speak English. That is because everyone else is required to cater to those who choose not to learn the language and that does include legals with a green card and those without which seems to be the majority in these cases.
These days we require many schools in areas like CA. to teach their kids English and instructors to be bi-lingual.
You talk about drivers licenses, again state jobs which means more taxpayers money spent for people who choose not to learn the language.
Why would it make any differance if they are legal or illegal if it is the same problem?
When i use the word force i do not mean the gov. or a gun. What i mean is that we make it so easy for them not to speak and read the language these days by giving them so many ways to avoid learning it at taxpayers expense.
If they did not have these tools most would learn the English language or go back to their native countries because they would not survive here.
What businesses do for this problem is their business as long as they are not gov. substadized, of course that does not seem to make any differance.
I'll reply tonight hopefully.. have to get to work soon... don't worry nothing bad Iwish lol you have been civil to me so far... but i noticed in your post you have misunderstood some things i said... anyways ttyl.. have a good day
-------------------- Money Never Sleeps Pal.
Greed, for the lack of a better word is GOOD. Posts: 3671 | Registered: Mar 2004
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I'm home early........ Do you think we can argue this for the rest of the week? Unfortunately I'm going out of town to work for a couple days so I can't reply till Thursday. Obviosly you got your opinion I've got mine and were not going to agree. And I'll never change my point of view. But I do have to answer a couple things you brought up otherwise I wouldn't be me. 1. I don't have the time to look into civil rights cases so sorry on that one but I would put money on it one existed. 2. It was a year ago and was all over the news about the muslim woman who refused to take her scarf of for her drivers license. I believe she resided in Florida but I could be wrong on that. 3. Here's the big one. Machiavelli.... swear on my kids life if I had to guess what your ancestory was I would have said Italian. Taco dip... it fit, since we were talking about spanish rather than take your ball and go home. So if I new you were spanish then it was an insult for that I apologize, but It was a pun, a play on an old saying. There was no meaning behind it other than it fit the conversation. 4. lets skip to 5 5. If I hopped the fence to live in Mexico, I would learn spanish period. I would not expect to be catered to because I was to lazy to adopt their culture. As far as airports and the NY subway that's different. I won't argue that because it's pointless. I am talking about everyday living here not traveling through somewhere where directions are needed in a multitude of languages. 6. I have relatives straight from Italy They spoke their native tongue at home and at night the kids cam home from school and taught them what they learned. That's how it was done and how it should be continued to be done why can't you see that. 7. The fact your father learned to speak english whether he speaks it well or not means he came here and adapted to the way it was, he didn't expect to be catered to. I wish him well, I wish the rest of the people that come here were more like him. 8. I'm done.
Posts: 203 | From: new york | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by jgrecoconstr: I'm home early........ Do you think we can argue this for the rest of the week? Unfortunately I'm going out of town to work for a couple days so I can't reply till Thursday. Obviosly you got your opinion I've got mine and were not going to agree. And I'll never change my point of view. But I do have to answer a couple things you brought up otherwise I wouldn't be me. 1. I don't have the time to look into civil rights cases so sorry on that one but I would put money on it one existed. 2. It was a year ago and was all over the news about the muslim woman who refused to take her scarf of for her drivers license. I believe she resided in Florida but I could be wrong on that. 3. Here's the big one. Machiavelli.... swear on my kids life if I had to guess what your ancestory was I would have said Italian. Taco dip... it fit, since we were talking about spanish rather than take your ball and go home. So if I new you were spanish then it was an insult for that I apologize, but It was a pun, a play on an old saying. There was no meaning behind it other than it fit the conversation. 4. lets skip to 5 5. If I hopped the fence to live in Mexico, I would learn spanish period. I would not expect to be catered to because I was to lazy to adopt their culture. As far as airports and the NY subway that's different. I won't argue that because it's pointless. I am talking about everyday living here not traveling through somewhere where directions are needed in a multitude of languages. 6. I have relatives straight from Italy They spoke their native tongue at home and at night the kids cam home from school and taught them what they learned. That's how it was done and how it should be continued to be done why can't you see that. 7. The fact your father learned to speak english whether he speaks it well or not means he came here and adapted to the way it was, he didn't expect to be catered to. I wish him well, I wish the rest of the people that come here were more like him. 8. I'm done.
Your right, we both have our opinions and were never going to agree. With political issues tempers flare and I tend to lose mine sometimes easily especially when it comes to one that is close to the heart in a way. Anyways i apologize for losing it and saying mean things and i accept your apology as well. Only time will tell about this issue and hopefully it will be good for all parties involved.
-------------------- Money Never Sleeps Pal.
Greed, for the lack of a better word is GOOD. Posts: 3671 | Registered: Mar 2004
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Cambodia established gun control in 1956. Between 1975 and 19793, 2,035,000 "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
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I had not noticed this before Seeking Freedom but in is very obvious in this case establishing gun control and enforcing it are two different things.
There are many American soldiers that wished they had enforced that law in Cambodia.
Posts: 2520 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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I had not noticed this before Seeking Freedom but in is very obvious in this case establishing gun control and enforcing it are two different things.
There are many American soldiers that wished they had enforced that law in Cambodia.
Many of the gun control laws in other countries have been selectively enforced or written such that certain people aren't allowed guns at all. For example, the German gun laws were written to specifically exclude Jews from possessing firearms while those that were in 'good standing' with the Nazi party got quick access.
This point, though, is that any time the government, here or elsewhere, begins to limit how the general population can protect itself we should be wary. It doesn't matter if it's to protect itself from threats foreign or domestic.
They're still defenseless.
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And as far as I know there isn't any Court case in the past or present as to not having spanish on packages or as a option on phones etc. as a violation of civil liberties or one that ended in favor of the hispanic person in the case. If there is one, please show us so we may read it. 
