Close Window Court bans death penalty for child rape Wednesday, June 25, 2008 WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court declared Wednesday that executions are too severe a punishment for child rape, despite the "years of long anguish" for victims, in a ruling that restricts the death penalty to murder and crimes against the state.
The court's 5-4 decision struck down a Louisiana law that allows capital punishment for people convicted of raping children under 12. It spares the only people in the U.S. under sentence of death for that crime - two Louisiana men convicted of raping girls 5 and 8.
The ruling also invalidates laws on the books in five other that allowed executions for child rape.
However devastating the crime to children, Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote in his majority opinion, "the death penalty is not a proportional punishment for the rape of a child." His four liberal colleagues joined him, while the four more conservative justices dissented.
There has not been an execution in the United States for a crime that did not also involve the death of the victim in 44 years, a factor that weighed in Kennedy's decision.
Rape and other crimes "may be as devastating in their harm, as here, but 'in terms of moral depravity and of the injury to the person and to the public,' they cannot be compared to murder in their 'severity and irrevocability,'" Kennedy said, quoting from earlier decisions.
The victim in the case decided Wednesday was an 8-year-old girl raped by her stepfather at their home in Harvey, La., outside New Orleans.
Angry Louisianans who backed the law said the court was out of touch.
"The opinion reads more like an out-of-control legislative debate than a constitutional analysis," said Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, a Republican. "One thing is clear: The five members of the court who issued the opinion do not share the same 'standards of decency' as the people of Louisiana."
With the court already on record this term reaffirming the constitutionality of capital punishment in a case dealing with lethal injection, Kennedy dwelt at length on the need to limit the death penalty to the most heinous killings.
The decision allows death sentences to continue to be imposed for crimes such as treason, espionage and terrorism, which Kennedy labeled as crimes against the state.
The Supreme Court banned executions for rape in 1977 in a case in which the victim was an adult woman.
Forty-four states prohibit the death penalty for any kind of rape, and five states besides Louisiana have allowed it for child rapists. Montana, Oklahoma, South Carolina and Texas allow executions in such cases if the defendant had previously been convicted of raping a child. Georgia's statute is broader, Kennedy said.
The court struggled over how to apply standards laid out in decisions barring executions for the mentally retarded and people younger than 18 when they committed murder. In those cases, the court cited trends in the states away from capital punishment.
In this case, proponents of the Louisiana law said the trend was toward the death penalty, a point mentioned by Justice Samuel Alito in his dissent.
"The harm that is caused to the victims and to society at large by the worst child rapists is grave," Alito wrote. "It is the judgment of the Louisiana lawmakers and those in an increasing number of other states that these harms justify the death penalty."
But Kennedy said the absence of any recent executions for rape and the small number of states that allow it demonstrate "there is a national consensus against capital punishment for the crime of child rape."
Kennedy acknowledged that the decision had to come to terms with "the years of long anguish that must be endured by the victim of child rape."
Still, he concluded that in cases of crimes against individuals, "the death penalty should not be expanded to instances where the victim's life was not taken."
The author of the Louisiana law, former Republican state Rep. Pete Schneider, said even opponents of the death penalty told him they would kill anyone who raped their children. "When are you going to have the courage to stand up for what's right for all of the people - but especially the children under 12 that have been brutally raped by monsters?" Schneider demanded, directing his comments to the justices in Wednesday's majority.
The last executions for crimes other than murder took place in 1964, according to a database maintained by the Death Penalty Information Center.
Ronald Wolfe, 34, died in Missouri's gas chamber on May 8, 1964, for rape. James Coburn was electrocuted in Alabama on Sept. 4 of that year for robbery.
The case before the court involved Patrick Kennedy, 43, who was sentenced to death for the rape of his 8-year-old stepdaughter in Louisiana.
Kennedy was convicted in 2003. The girl initially told police she was sorting Girl Scout cookies in the garage when two boys assaulted her.
Police arrested Kennedy a couple of weeks after the March 1998 rape, but more than 20 months passed before the girl identified him as her attacker.
His defense attorney at the time argued that blood testing was inconclusive and that the victim was pressed to change her story.
The Louisiana Supreme Court upheld the sentence, saying that "short of first-degree murder, we can think of no other non-homicide crime more deserving" of the death penalty. State Chief Justice Pascal Calogero noted in dissent that the U.S. high court already had made clear that capital punishment could not be imposed without the death of the victim, except possibly for espionage or treason.
The girl's mother was reached by The Associated Press following the court's decision Wednesday. "We don't talk about that," she said and hung up.
A second Louisiana defendant, Richard Davis, was given the death penalty in December for repeatedly raping a 5-year-old girl in Caddo Parish.
Local prosecutor Lea Hall told jurors: "Execute this man. Justice has a sword and this sword needs to swing today." Both men will get new sentences.
The case is Kennedy v. Louisiana, 07-343.
---
Associated Press writer Janet McConnaughey contributed to this report from New Orleans.
Wednesday, June 25, 2008 WASHINGTON - The Supreme Court declared Wednesday that executions are too severe a punishment for child rape, despite the "years of long anguish" for victims, in a ruling that restricts the death penalty to murder and crimes against the state.
The court's 5-4 decision struck down a Louisiana law that allows capital punishment for people convicted of raping children under 12. It spares the only people in the U.S. under sentence of death for that crime - two Louisiana men convicted of raping girls 5 and 8.
The ruling also invalidates laws on the books in five other that allowed executions for child rape.
However devastating the crime to children, Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote in his majority opinion, "the death penalty is not a proportional punishment for the rape of a child." His four liberal colleagues joined him, while the four more conservative justices dissented.
There has not been an execution in the United States for a crime that did not also involve the death of the victim in 44 years, a factor that weighed in Kennedy's decision.
Rape and other crimes "may be as devastating in their harm, as here, but 'in terms of moral depravity and of the injury to the person and to the public,' they cannot be compared to murder in their 'severity and irrevocability,'" Kennedy said, quoting from earlier decisions.
The victim in the case decided Wednesday was an 8-year-old girl raped by her stepfather at their home in Harvey, La., outside New Orleans.
Angry Louisianans who backed the law said the court was out of touch.
"The opinion reads more like an out-of-control legislative debate than a constitutional analysis," said Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal, a Republican. "One thing is clear: The five members of the court who issued the opinion do not share the same 'standards of decency' as the people of Louisiana."
With the court already on record this term reaffirming the constitutionality of capital punishment in a case dealing with lethal injection, Kennedy dwelt at length on the need to limit the death penalty to the most heinous killings.
The decision allows death sentences to continue to be imposed for crimes such as treason, espionage and terrorism, which Kennedy labeled as crimes against the state.
The Supreme Court banned executions for rape in 1977 in a case in which the victim was an adult woman.
Forty-four states prohibit the death penalty for any kind of rape, and five states besides Louisiana have allowed it for child rapists. Montana, Oklahoma, South Carolina and Texas allow executions in such cases if the defendant had previously been convicted of raping a child. Georgia's statute is broader, Kennedy said.
The court struggled over how to apply standards laid out in decisions barring executions for the mentally retarded and people younger than 18 when they committed murder. In those cases, the court cited trends in the states away from capital punishment.
In this case, proponents of the Louisiana law said the trend was toward the death penalty, a point mentioned by Justice Samuel Alito in his dissent.
"The harm that is caused to the victims and to society at large by the worst child rapists is grave," Alito wrote. "It is the judgment of the Louisiana lawmakers and those in an increasing number of other states that these harms justify the death penalty."
But Kennedy said the absence of any recent executions for rape and the small number of states that allow it demonstrate "there is a national consensus against capital punishment for the crime of child rape."
Kennedy acknowledged that the decision had to come to terms with "the years of long anguish that must be endured by the victim of child rape."
Still, he concluded that in cases of crimes against individuals, "the death penalty should not be expanded to instances where the victim's life was not taken."
The author of the Louisiana law, former Republican state Rep. Pete Schneider, said even opponents of the death penalty told him they would kill anyone who raped their children. "When are you going to have the courage to stand up for what's right for all of the people - but especially the children under 12 that have been brutally raped by monsters?" Schneider demanded, directing his comments to the justices in Wednesday's majority.
The last executions for crimes other than murder took place in 1964, according to a database maintained by the Death Penalty Information Center.
Ronald Wolfe, 34, died in Missouri's gas chamber on May 8, 1964, for rape. James Coburn was electrocuted in Alabama on Sept. 4 of that year for robbery.
The case before the court involved Patrick Kennedy, 43, who was sentenced to death for the rape of his 8-year-old stepdaughter in Louisiana.
Kennedy was convicted in 2003. The girl initially told police she was sorting Girl Scout cookies in the garage when two boys assaulted her.
Police arrested Kennedy a couple of weeks after the March 1998 rape, but more than 20 months passed before the girl identified him as her attacker.
His defense attorney at the time argued that blood testing was inconclusive and that the victim was pressed to change her story.
The Louisiana Supreme Court upheld the sentence, saying that "short of first-degree murder, we can think of no other non-homicide crime more deserving" of the death penalty. State Chief Justice Pascal Calogero noted in dissent that the U.S. high court already had made clear that capital punishment could not be imposed without the death of the victim, except possibly for espionage or treason.
The girl's mother was reached by The Associated Press following the court's decision Wednesday. "We don't talk about that," she said and hung up.
A second Louisiana defendant, Richard Davis, was given the death penalty in December for repeatedly raping a 5-year-old girl in Caddo Parish.
Local prosecutor Lea Hall told jurors: "Execute this man. Justice has a sword and this sword needs to swing today." Both men will get new sentences.
The case is Kennedy v. Louisiana, 07-343.
---
Associated Press writer Janet McConnaughey contributed to this report from New Orleans.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 6008 | From: phoenix az | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Does this ruling really matter? If anything a life sentence is worse than a death sentence for a kiddie rapist.
Posts: 1612 | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Special hell in prison? They're kept in a secure area so that THEY don't get raped. Tell me how that is fair and just!
As for the death penalty being just, it's not about justice at that point. It's about protecting the rest of us...and our children. Nothing that we can do to these beasts will equal the damage they have done. There is no way to cure them because it's not a disease, it's a sick preference. The recidivism rate is absolutely insane with sexual predators of any kind.
Killing them just makes sure another child won't pay for our burdened conscience.
It may not be justice...but it's more than just.
Posts: 681 | From: Utah | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by glassman: i think that child rapists get to live in a special hell in prison before they die...
i'm somewhat ambivalent about the death penalty..
i don't reall think it is justice...
I agree with you Glass... it's not justice it's revenge... plus I think a life sentence is a worst punishment for such people and it's a living hell they will live for decades if they are young... and they will always be a target from other prisoners... but other then that I am anti death penalty in this case because a rapist is a rapist and to only say certain rapists cases get the death penalty and not other types of rapipsts (women rapists, men on men rapists etc.) is not right in my book...
-------------------- Money Never Sleeps Pal.
Greed, for the lack of a better word is GOOD. Posts: 3884 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
So, let me get this strait...you're both willing to lock these 'things' away forever (on the taxpayers dime) but you're not willing to put them out of both their and our misery?
As for a rapist is a rapist is a rapist, Mach...you're right and wrong imo. To rape anyone is heinous beyond understanding, but any crime when directed at a child is doubly wrong because is takes EVERYTHING that is innocent from them. They will live their entire lives with those scars because they never had the chance to form a base from which they might have made some form of healing.
Unless they are repeat offenders none of these guys get life. They serve their time and then go back out and yet another innocent pays for our "evolving standards of decency that mark the progress of a maturing society."
Read into this a little further and you'll get another load of liberal bull...states can no longer assign their own punishments to crimes that occur within their borders. The Supreme Court has as much as said that if we don't agree with the State...sucks to be you. It is one matter for them to say that something is unconsitutional, it's quite another to take the states' right to punish an offender based on a constitutional law.
Glass...none of these perverts gets put in general population. Their lifespan could be measured in days if they were (if only). As for the Obama note...should make one take notice when everyone (almost) even including the socialist presidential candidate doesn't agree with a ruling.
Posts: 681 | From: Utah | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by SeekingFreedom: So, let me get this strait...you're both willing to lock these 'things' away forever (on the taxpayers dime) but you're not willing to put them out of both their and our misery?
So to you it's more about the money then the just thing to do...
quote:As for a rapist is a rapist is a rapist, Mach...you're right and wrong imo. To rape anyone is heinous beyond understanding, but any crime when directed at a child is doubly wrong because is takes EVERYTHING that is innocent from them. They will live their entire lives with those scars because they never had the chance to form a base from which they might have made some form of healing.
I disagree with you. ALL rape victims regardless of age or innocence will have scars the rest of their lives emotionally and perhaps physically. Let's throw you in prison in a area where there is homosexual rapists to let you get raped then tell me you do not have the same emotional scars as all other rape victims.
quote:Unless they are repeat offenders none of these guys get life. They serve their time and then go back out and yet another innocent pays for our "evolving standards of decency that mark the progress of a maturing society."
Yes, sometimes true but i think it depends on the state. Some do get life whether life without parole or 30 + years depending on the offenders age which could be construed as a life sentence. But anyways wouldn't you agree that rapists of adults pose the same threat to our society when they are released yet you are only advocating death to child rapists. Aren't your female loved ones whether your mom, sister, cousin or other family members as well as friends or girlfriends and wives just as important as a child? If not then your valuing one loved one more then another one based on age.
quote:Read into this a little further and you'll get another load of liberal bull...states can no longer assign their own punishments to crimes that occur within their borders. The Supreme Court has as much as said that if we don't agree with the State...sucks to be you. It is one matter for them to say that something is unconsitutional, it's quite another to take the states' right to punish an offender based on a constitutional law.
It is unconstitutional and the Court did the right thing while you on the other hand are making a decision based on your emotions and not impartiality and the law.
quote:Glass...none of these perverts gets put in general population. Their lifespan could be measured in days if they were (if only). As for the Obama note...should make one take notice when everyone (almost) even including the socialist presidential candidate doesn't agree with a ruling.
Actually some do get put in general population eventually if they are serving a life sentence or long sentence even if it takes years to do so.Again it depends in what state they are in or whether they are in a Federal prison or State Prison since they all have different rules. And even if they are not put in general population, someone will always get to them eventually. We'll not always but sooner or later some of them will get their day though not all of them but dieing of old age in such a Hell is a worst punishment then death itself even if you disagree. Jeffrey Dahmer is a perfect example of the former.
-------------------- Money Never Sleeps Pal.
Greed, for the lack of a better word is GOOD. Posts: 3884 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
It is unconstitutional and the Court did the right thing while you on the other hand are making a decision based on your emotions and not impartiality and the law.
Don't lecture me on the constitutionality of this law until you have a lot more information under your belt, Mach. Judge Kennedy's appeal to the 8th ammendment is hollow as the courts have upheld for years, and still do, that capital punishment IS completely constitutional.
With the court already on record this term reaffirming the constitutionality of capital punishment in a case dealing with lethal injection, Kennedy dwelt at length on the need to limit the death penalty to the most heinous killings.
If you read the story posted, Judge Kennedy fails to do anything but say "hey, we don't think that the majority of people want rape to be punished by the death penalty."
But Kennedy said the absence of any recent executions for rape and the small number of states that allow it demonstrate "there is a national consensus against capital punishment for the crime of child rape."
National Consensus?
The court struggled over how to apply standards laid out in decisions barring executions for the mentally retarded and people younger than 18 when they committed murder. In those cases, the court cited trends in the states away from capital punishment.
Trends in the states?
There has not been an execution in the United States for a crime that did not also involve the death of the victim in 44 years, a factor that weighed in Kennedy's decision.
So, noone has been executed in a while so that makes it unconstitutional...
And to top off the hypocrisy...
The decision allows death sentences to continue to be imposed for crimes such as treason, espionage and terrorism, which Kennedy labeled as crimes against the state.
So, it's not ok to execute them where no death occurred unless it's a BIG crime...good to know that rape isn't a big crime, Mach.
Everything he cites is based on changing standards that the Court claims exists. The article even cited the previous cases where capital punishment had been used in non-murder cases. Where was the Court then? Judge Kennedy and the Liberal Judges are simply saying we don't like capital punishment and this is our way of limiting it.
But anyways wouldn't you agree that rapists of adults pose the same threat to our society when they are released yet you are only advocating death to child rapists
Yet again, Mach, you are putting words in my mouth. I never once said that one rapist should be given the needle and not another based on victim. I am in favor of extending the death penalty to far more crimes than it is. I believe that anytime a crime is such that society has decided to lock the perpetrator away for the rest of their natural existance that we should impose the death penalty and be done with the mess. Sentancing them to a long drawn out death in prison (which you advocate apparently) is in no way more humane than simply sedating them and while they are under paralyzing the heart and lungs. Which sounds more like torture and revenge to you?
As for the cost element you chided me on? Consider this:
Lets use 1994 stats:
On a given day in 1994 there were approximately 234,000 offenders convicted of rape or sexual assault under the care, custody, or control of corrections agencies; nearly 60% of these sex offenders are under conditional supervision in the community.
So, we have about 93600 of these perverts incarcerated. At an average cost of nearly $23,000 each (2001 stat, latest I could find) that's $2,152,800,000 that you and I and every other taxpayer are forking out to house this scum of the earth each year. Remember as well that this is only for the sexual offenders. This doesn't count the other myriad of convicts at all.
2.1 billion dollars, Mach! Every year! So that these guys can get 3 meals a day, shelter, cable television, healthcare and a chance to get a college degree.
posted
I have seen people so sick it makes a child molester look like a boy scout. The Government state and federal plus private doctors and organizations can't figure what to do I have been in on this at the hard end for years and not the brain end and I anm beside myself I use to feel that force and brutality were the only answers but no more because that did not work either
Maybe you guys are right,But it is not in me anymore.
I do know one thing I have known the type of con that does his time for child rape and begs not to be let out because he says he can,t stop its in the head not the balls, and the joint is the only place where he can be away from childern
Posts: 6008 | From: phoenix az | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by SeekingFreedom: It is unconstitutional and the Court did the right thing while you on the other hand are making a decision based on your emotions and not impartiality and the law.
Don't lecture me on the constitutionality of this law until you have a lot more information under your belt, Mach. Judge Kennedy's appeal to the 8th ammendment is hollow as the courts have upheld for years, and still do, that capital punishment IS completely constitutional.
With the court already on record this term reaffirming the constitutionality of capital punishment in a case dealing with lethal injection, Kennedy dwelt at length on the need to limit the death penalty to the most heinous killings.
If you read the story posted, Judge Kennedy fails to do anything but say "hey, we don't think that the majority of people want rape to be punished by the death penalty."
But Kennedy said the absence of any recent executions for rape and the small number of states that allow it demonstrate "there is a national consensus against capital punishment for the crime of child rape."
National Consensus?
The court struggled over how to apply standards laid out in decisions barring executions for the mentally retarded and people younger than 18 when they committed murder. In those cases, the court cited trends in the states away from capital punishment.
Trends in the states?
There has not been an execution in the United States for a crime that did not also involve the death of the victim in 44 years, a factor that weighed in Kennedy's decision.
So, noone has been executed in a while so that makes it unconstitutional...
And to top off the hypocrisy...
The decision allows death sentences to continue to be imposed for crimes such as treason, espionage and terrorism, which Kennedy labeled as crimes against the state.
So, it's not ok to execute them where no death occurred unless it's a BIG crime...good to know that rape isn't a big crime, Mach.
Everything he cites is based on changing standards that the Court claims exists. The article even cited the previous cases where capital punishment had been used in non-murder cases. Where was the Court then? Judge Kennedy and the Liberal Judges are simply saying we don't like capital punishment and this is our way of limiting it.
But anyways wouldn't you agree that rapists of adults pose the same threat to our society when they are released yet you are only advocating death to child rapists
Yet again, Mach, you are putting words in my mouth. I never once said that one rapist should be given the needle and not another based on victim. I am in favor of extending the death penalty to far more crimes than it is. I believe that anytime a crime is such that society has decided to lock the perpetrator away for the rest of their natural existance that we should impose the death penalty and be done with the mess. Sentancing them to a long drawn out death in prison (which you advocate apparently) is in no way more humane than simply sedating them and while they are under paralyzing the heart and lungs. Which sounds more like torture and revenge to you?
As for the cost element you chided me on? Consider this:
Lets use 1994 stats:
On a given day in 1994 there were approximately 234,000 offenders convicted of rape or sexual assault under the care, custody, or control of corrections agencies; nearly 60% of these sex offenders are under conditional supervision in the community.
So, we have about 93600 of these perverts incarcerated. At an average cost of nearly $23,000 each (2001 stat, latest I could find) that's $2,152,800,000 that you and I and every other taxpayer are forking out to house this scum of the earth each year. Remember as well that this is only for the sexual offenders. This doesn't count the other myriad of convicts at all.
2.1 billion dollars, Mach! Every year! So that these guys can get 3 meals a day, shelter, cable television, healthcare and a chance to get a college degree.
Yeah, that's justice.
So let me get this straight... MAJORITY RULES??
Plus i didnt put words in your mouth, you basically implied it ONLY child rapists should be put to death. You never said all rapists or rapists in general should be. I'm not the only one to see this in your posts.
As for you wanting the death penalty expanded to all crimes that require life imprisonment. That is why we have Supreme Court decisions, to limit uncontrolled lunacy from people like you. Rapists today and then eventually you will move on down the list to include bank robbers, gun assaults, some ass getting a life sentence for stealing a piece of pizza (3 strikes your out laws in California and other states etc.) etc. Where would it end? I'm glad for separation of Church and State. If not for it we would be in serious trouble from religious zealots like you.
The death penalty is nothing more then revenge. If people would admit that and stop disguising it with the word "justice" I would respect you more on this issue. Fortunately we live in a society where were not suppose to be getting "revenge". If we did then we should go back to the old days of Wild West vigilantism and no Law & Order.
As for the $2 billion per year we spend on these criminals to keep them incarcerated. That is a drop in the bucket compared to the $12 billion PER MONTH your esteemed President spends on a unpopular war. That is where you should be directing your energies and outrage at if you want to make a issue monetary because that hits our pockets more in the form of taxes then the money we spend on the Penal system ever will which at least our money is put to good use trying to separate us from the dregs of society.
And if you were really a religious person, you would be against taking any life regardless if they are wanted in this society or not. If not then you are nothing but a hyprocrite disguised as God's follower like PM is a hyprocrite for taking money in the Section 8 system he despises so much.
It's unfortunate that we are the last Western power to have the Death Penalty yet we preach human rights to the world & other nonsense preachings that we do not practice ourselves.
-------------------- Money Never Sleeps Pal.
Greed, for the lack of a better word is GOOD. Posts: 3884 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Btw "Seeking Freedom" (ironic name imo), if you think prison is a picnic, walk in the park country club. You should try it sometime. Might do wonders for your way of thinking.
-------------------- Money Never Sleeps Pal.
Greed, for the lack of a better word is GOOD. Posts: 3884 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Death penalty don't work it never has and never will.
Especially on crimes of sex offence the malfunction of the brain to satisfy the addiction overides the punisment of committing the crime. In other words these guys are sick and no matter what the legal punishment there is, won't stop them from doing what they do.
Cure or an Island some place where they all can go is the only way of treating them If you are a Christian.
Posts: 6008 | From: phoenix az | Registered: Mar 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
I think your right Bond... as far as i know i have never seen a study that says the Death Penalty reduces such crimes that are punishable by it. It's suppose to be a deterrent but I just don't see it. What most people who do this is a mental disease imo that won't make the next potentional child rapist, killer, terrorist, spy etc. stop from committing the crime. They don't think about the DP.
-------------------- Money Never Sleeps Pal.
Greed, for the lack of a better word is GOOD. Posts: 3884 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
they don't seem to care much whether they live or die either.
MSNBC does some weekend shows inside prisons... i've never seen anybody sitting on their fat azzes watching Nascar on cable pinching thier wifes butts when they bring 'em another Bud... it ain't pretty.
i don't know how the guards do it... i couldn't.
-------------------- Of the People, by the People and For the People. Posts: 27933 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Plus i didnt put words in your mouth, you basically implied it ONLY child rapists should be put to death. You never said all rapists or rapists in general should be. I'm not the only one to see this in your posts.
Quote me anywhere in this thread, Mach. Nothing I've posted can be honestly construed in such a manner.
But wait, that's never stopped you before has it?
Rapists today and then eventually you will move on down the list to include bank robbers, gun assaults, some ass getting a life sentence for stealing a piece of pizza (3 strikes your out laws in California and other states etc.) etc. Where would it end?
The three strikes and you're out laws are based on 3 FELONY CONVICTIONS, Mach. That means that someone has commited and been convicted of three seperate major offenses. It means they have demonstrated a pattern of not only not being able to be a productive member of society, but are choosing to deliberately act against the common good. That's when they get life. That's when they truly become nothing more than a drain on society because they will continually drain tax payer dollars until they die.
And if you were really a religious person, you would be against taking any life regardless if they are wanted in this society or not. If not then you are nothing but a hyprocrite disguised as God's follower like PM is a hyprocrite for taking money in the Section 8 system he despises so much.
Nice try, Mach, but yet again you merely show your ignorance of what you claim to know. Religious does not mean foolish no matter how many jokes you may make. As a religious man, my duty is to protect my fellow man, woman, and child. If these sick individuals have chosen to harm others rather than peacefully coexist then it behooves us to prevent them from doing so.
It's unfortunate that we are the last Western power to have the Death Penalty yet we preach human rights to the world & other nonsense preachings that we do not practice ourselves.
What about the human rights of their victims, Mach?
I think your right Bond... as far as i know i have never seen a study that says the Death Penalty reduces such crimes that are punishable by it.
Deterrant or not, capital punishment is the ONLY punishment that makes sure the individual will NEVER hurt anyone again. One can escape from prison or even hurt others while in prison. Dead is dead.
Quote me anywhere in this thread, Mach. Nothing I've posted can be honestly construed in such a manner.
But wait, that's never stopped you before has it?
"As for a rapist is a rapist is a rapist, Mach...you're right and wrong imo. To rape anyone is heinous beyond understanding, but any crime when directed at a child is doubly wrong because is takes EVERYTHING that is innocent from them. They will live their entire lives with those scars because they never had the chance to form a base from which they might have made some form of healing." That post to me means only child rapists should get the DP so these are your words.
quote:The three strikes and you're out laws are based on 3 FELONY CONVICTIONS, Mach. That means that someone has commited and been convicted of three seperate major offenses. It means they have demonstrated a pattern of not only not being able to be a productive member of society, but are choosing to deliberately act against the common good. That's when they get life. That's when they truly become nothing more than a drain on society because they will continually drain tax payer dollars until they die.
I guess your not aware that 3 Strikes laws have flaws especially in California. Or at least it used to. I have not kept up with it. But perhaps you remember the famous "pizza thief" who stole a slice and was going to get life for it among other cases in Cali such as drug addicts, homeless people etc. I guess by your definition we should put all these people to death because they are a drain on our wallets and because they are petty thieves and addicts who cannot function in society? ... here's one article about the case(s): http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0126-01.htm
quote:Nice try, Mach, but yet again you merely show your ignorance of what you claim to know. Religious does not mean foolish no matter how many jokes you may make. As a religious man, my duty is to protect my fellow man, woman, and child. If these sick individuals have chosen to harm others rather than peacefully coexist then it behooves us to prevent them from doing so.
Ignorance? Ever hear the quote: Thy Shall NOT Kill.
It did not say Thy Shall not kill only nice people.
It's funny how you and others can say something about the right to bear arms and intrepret it literally and say it's as plain as english but when it comes to other issues such as this , all of a sudden it's not "plain english" and doesn't mean what it says. Next you will quote me " A Eye for a Eye" and say that the 10 commandments are irrelevant because that quote was first or something lol
quote:What about the human rights of their victims, Mach?
Again if you do not practice what you preach and give human rights to all people including bad people then don't expect other countries to do the same especially with Americans abroad who might get wrongfully accused. The Constitution much like the Bible are not only for "nice people".
quote:Deterrant or not, capital punishment is the ONLY punishment that makes sure the individual will NEVER hurt anyone again. One can escape from prison or even hurt others while in prison. Dead is dead.
Yeah, it sure looks like incarceration worked here.
Hell why dont we put to death people who constantly get into fights and get arrested for assault. They hurt people as well. Or drunk drivers. Wife beaters. and on and on. He'll why not everyone in prison since really the only thing you care about is your wallet being drained even though your God Bush spends more money per month/year on the Iraq War then all the prisons put together imo. $12 Billion per month my friend. Think about that instead.
-------------------- Money Never Sleeps Pal.
Greed, for the lack of a better word is GOOD. Posts: 3884 | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
That post to me means only child rapists should get the DP so these are your words.
No, that post means that any crime against a child does more harm than to an adult. I said nothing about punishing them differently.
I guess your not aware that 3 Strikes laws have flaws especially in California. Or at least it used to. I have not kept up with it. But perhaps you remember the famous "pizza thief" who stole a slice and was going to get life for it
Right...he hadn't done ANYTHING prior to this to warrant jail time and he suddenly got life in prison...
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Were Up]](graemlins/wereup.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)