quote:If you really want it, I will link you to several studies that support what I've said. I specifically didn't for one reason: you won't accept them.
You got that right!!!
quote:but the bottom line is you do not want homosexuals (both male and female) to have the same rights as heterosexuals and that includes issues not pertaining to marriage.
TOTAL NONSENSE! Conservatives want gays to have EXACTLY the same rights as everyone else - WITH NO PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT!
LOL PM! GET THIS THROUGH YOUR HEAD! If gay marriage is legalized then you will have the right to marry another man if you choose, just like gay men. THEREFORE THERE IS NO PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT!
-------------------- What is your goal? Do you know? If so you are already one step ahead of the pack. Posts: 3876 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager: No, it all boils down to right and wrong. Nobody cares what people do behind closed doors in the privacy of their home. However, when gays think they are so special that they can re-write a centuries-old definition of "marriage", that's a problem. Gays have EXACTLY the same rights as everyone else and they certainly shouldn't have any additional rights. If they want to shack up, have at it. If they want to change the definition of "marriage" - FORGET IT! Apparently, even out there in California, the heart of socialist lefto land, 61% of the population wanted marriage to be between a man and a woman. Here in the midwest where people still have common sense and still know the difference between right and wrong, an overwhelming majority of the people know the definition of "marriage".
The definition of "marriage" was created by heterosexuals... how convenient... . The midwest has no sense other then their Christian agenda that they get from the greatest fiction book ever written: The Bible.
quote:That is the most mis-informed, ridiculous statement I've ever heard. Christians (with the possible exception of Rev. Wright and his 19th century black liberation church) don't hate any group and certainly don't want to exterminate anyone. I go to church EVERY week and I have NEVER heard a Christian advocate that privately or publicly - NEVER.
There you go again, twisting my words around.When did I say anything about extermination?. And please don't give me the BS that you never heard a Christian advocating hatred towards homosexuals. If your going to write here in this forum and say that you never heard a Christian throughout your life utter the words f*g & other choice words to another individual because they thought or knew that person was a homosexual then you need to get that shovel out of the closet because your full of sh*t.
quote:Now I see where you're going wrong. God wasn't created by man - man was created by God! Hope that helps!
I can prove Man wrote the Bible, the greatest fiction ever written, can you prove God created Man?
-------------------- Money Never Sleeps Pal.
Greed, for the lack of a better word is GOOD. Posts: 3261 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by Upside: Please, cut through all of the crap that's been posted here and really get down to the bottom line. Don't approve of gay marriage or equal rights for them? It has nothing to do with all this talk of family values, parenting, adherence to any passage of scripture, etc.
It boils down to the fact that you cannot stomach one man taking another mans "parts" into him. You either believe it to be abhorrent or you don't, simple as that. That's what it's all about. All of the arguments presented here, both pro and con, are nothing more than attempts to support your beliefs about the act(s) they perform behind closed doors.
And Bigfoot, you know how much I respect you and your opinions but this "it's prevalent in nature" argument simply doesn't make sense to me. They are lesser animals and not a role model we should aspire to. I've witnessed my dog hump numerous legs along with many inanimate objects just as most dogs and other lower species do but it certainly doesn't mean that we as humans should do and accept the same.
Enough, I'm done venting, carry on. One other thing though, I purposely left lesbians out of the equation because as Highwaychild said, we all know that's acceptable.
LOL...I liked it UP. It think you just asked us to stop *****footing about *****es.
I would only ask that you take a look at your dog's behavior again and then take a gander at Perez Hilton's website and see what is going on in Hollyweird. If you are like me you will notice similarities. (no inhibitions)
It's an extreme example but the point I am trying to get across is that though we have evolved quite nicely we are still a product of nature and will reflect nature within ourselves as a species. You can believe that girls don't fart all you like, but one day you will find yourself navigating an ill wind.
-------------------- What is your goal? Do you know? If so you are already one step ahead of the pack. Posts: 3876 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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lol, now you sound like a homo guy who wants a straight guy...how often you think that happens?
Yep, pretty much the same thing. As to how often it actually happens? I'm sure it's extremely rare. I wouldn't say never though and therein lies the challenge. Posts: 5532 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2003
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I never did respond to your rebuttal a few days ago. (Haven't had time to post much)
I am happy to do so if you would like but perhaps the conversation has moved beyond that point?
-------------------- What is your goal? Do you know? If so you are already one step ahead of the pack. Posts: 3876 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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quote:Originally posted by T e x: That's a classic, awright...
Up, I've had 'em come on to me...why? Trying to get to my wife.
You were used Tex. A tool of sorts. It's a good piece of advice though. I'll now be a bit more cautious if, no, when it happens.
Posts: 5532 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Sep 2003
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Not at all, Big. Love to hear from you. Fire at will...err, me...well, you get it.
And, Mach, you can prove man wrote the Bible just as I can prove a secretary takes notation. You can't prove the source of the material transcribed.
Up, as to the lesbians = good, gays = bad idea...right and wrong should have something a little bit more objective to measure by other than the 'limp noodle vs saluting soldier' method. Posts: 577 | From: Utah | Registered: Mar 2008
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What gays/lesbians do between themselves is their business as long as they do not have kids or adopt them.
But once they decide to do that (adopt/have kids) then it ticks me off (not that they care) because they are only doing what's good for "them" and not what is good for the kids.
There is so much bs slung about the kids in these homes having a very natural home no different than any other one.
My experiance with kids in these situations says that idea is way off base.
If kids are born into this situation where the parent all the sudden finds out he or she has a same sex liking then not much can be done, but when they have kids and know prior shame on them.
The kids do suffer.
What we need is some more things to mess with the kids minds as if they don't have enough things with the trouble times.
Posts: 2382 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Here's my two cents on the subject.
What gays/lesbians do between themselves is their business as long as they do not have kids or adopt them.
But once they decide to do that (adopt/have kids) then it ticks me off (not that they care) because they are only doing what's good for "them" and not what is good for the kids.
There is so much bs slung about the kids in these homes having a very natural home no different than any other one.
My experiance with kids in these situations says that idea is way off base.
If kids are born into this situation where the parent all the sudden finds out he or she has a same sex liking then not much can be done, but when they have kids and know prior shame on them.
The kids do suffer.
What we need is some more things to mess with the kids minds as if they don't have enough things with the trouble times.
Actually, I'd rather see the adoption deal.
It's devastating to go through the process of them "realizing who they are" and get your family blown up...very painful.
Talk about feeling used...
That's why homo kids need support instead of shame--so they don't try to live a lie by getting married, then later ruining some gal's or guy's life.
Plus, for a lot of adoptees...ANY kind of family nuturing is prolly better than what they've got...
You know more on this subject than me from what little you have written about it.
I am not even sure that in the cases of adoption that they are not just thrusting another major problem on these kids to compound the ones they already have. Only time will tell that and each person would have his/her view.
My little experiance in the subject mainly comes from the early sixties and little later.
My older brother had a friend that lived with us in his senior year because his mom had moved in with her girlfriend and he could not handle it so my parents allowed him to live with us.
I also had a very good friend of mine since i was 5 we hung around each other till high school, his dad whom i am sure was gay yet he stayed married. Every thing seem okay with my friend and i never thought much of it my whole life but i think things caught up with him later in life.
There was never any thing i ever heard mentioned about his dad anywhere, no teasing at all around any of my friends. Rather unusal for the sixties i think.
Posts: 2382 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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It's all relative. eg, my ex is the best thing that ever happened to her gf's kids; my own kids, though? not so much. My ex does goofy stuff now that she would have never done when we were together. Is strange for me cuz I feel more like a widower: the woman I knew is gone, yet I can see her body moving around, alive... (like at graduations and such).
Sure wish we had all the right answers for these situations. Just lucky your kids have good support and help if they need it.
Posts: 2382 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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Why is it that in these same sex relationships does it appear that one person seems to want to play the role of being more male and one more female almost acting like it is a male/female relationship.
Seems like many times this appears to be the case or maybe it is just the ones that stand out more to me.
Posts: 2382 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by SeekingFreedom: And, Mach, you can prove man wrote the Bible just as I can prove a secretary takes notation. You can't prove the source of the material transcribed.
That's not much of a answer... i never said i can prove the exact person(s) who wrote the Bible just that it was written by a human out of their own creativity and imagination much like Stephen King and his novels. You on the other hand can't ever prove a deity created us... but hey if you want to believe such a "being" exists and never question whether he does because of no proof & because you were brainwashed throughout your life then so be it.. but leave your religion out of my home and everyone elses... in other words religion has no place in Gov't in what we can or cannot do other then the Freedom to practice whatever religion we want to...
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Greed, for the lack of a better word is GOOD. Posts: 3261 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by T e x: That's why homo kids need support instead of shame--so they don't try to live a lie by getting married, then later ruining some gal's or guy's life.
Plus, for a lot of adoptees...ANY kind of family nuturing is prolly better than what they've got...
Spoken like a wise person... all a kid ever needs is love from parents no matter the gender of the parents... love and good upbringing is what does that not anything else... there are bad kids in both situations of families (hetero and homo) and to say that all kids will turn out bad in a homo home & not a hetero home is being bigoted and biased... It's the person who raises them that determines (though not all the time since kids have their own minds) how they will be and not what their parents do in private with their significant other.... like i said marriage between gay couples is just a formality since alot of them are already living together... most won't even have kids but if they do choose to do so that is there right... there are perfect examples of kids growing up in a homo family that have no problems and all the love... from famous gay couples... one of them i believe is Melissa Etheridge (hate her music though but thats another story and that is about musical tastes lol)and I'm sure others here can name others in the public eye...
-------------------- Money Never Sleeps Pal.
Greed, for the lack of a better word is GOOD. Posts: 3261 | Registered: Mar 2004
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"Spoken like a wise person... all a kid ever needs is love from parents no matter the gender of the parents... love and good upbringing is what does that not anything else... there are bad kids in both situations of families (hetero and homo) and to say that all kids will turn out bad in a homo home & not a hetero home is being bigoted and biased... It's the person who raises them that determines (though not all the time since kids have their own minds) how they will be and not what their parents do in private with their significant other.... like i said marriage between gay couples is just a formality since alot of them are already living together... most won't even have kids but if they do choose to do so that is there right... there are perfect examples of kids growing up in a homo family that have no problems and all the love... from famous gay couples... one of them i believe is Melissa Etheridge (hate her music though but thats another story and that is about musical tastes lol)and I'm sure others here can name others in the public eye..."
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You are counter dicting yourself in the same post.
Who said all kids will turn out bad in same sex homes? Explain bad.
Posts: 2382 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: quote:You are counter dicting yourself in the same post.
Who said all kids will turn out bad in same sex homes? Explain bad.
ok, let me clarify it a different way... "Bad" in a bigoted person's sense of the word... turn gay if brought up in a gay environment or see gay marriages as "normal" because only hetero's can determine what is normal or not normal in this world etc. etc.. I use one word "bad" to describe all the BS arguments that have been said pertaining to this subject from the ones against gay marriages... better?
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Greed, for the lack of a better word is GOOD. Posts: 3261 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
My concern would be the possible psychological affects on the kids since it is not an accepted way of life by many. ( i think that's what got my friend in the end some 20 years ago)
Other kids and society in general can sure change how a kid acts and or thinks hopefully the home front is enough to counter those affects.
That is why i feel the way i do about bringing kids into the relationship after becoming a gay/lesbian couple.
As far as the marriage part i could care less, but a lot of businesses care especially at a time when they are trying to cut everyones benefits(health etc.) they would love to not see it go through and i am sure they lobby against it.
Wait until those rich celebrities decide to separate from their lover see how much they like the idea of marriage then.
Posts: 2382 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: My concern would be the possible psychological affects on the kids since it is not an accepted way of life by many. ( i think that's what got my friend in the end some 20 years ago)
Times have changed.. at one point of time we had segregation and some of the same bigots today (the right christians fanatics) were saying the same thing when the Civil Rights movement was in full force... if this goes through attitudes will change over time and everyone will see it wasn't such a threat as they thought much like integration wasn't...
quote:Other kids and society in general can sure change how a kid acts and or thinks hopefully the home front is enough to counter those affects.
My exact point... "parents" regardless of gender are the ones who should counter the effects of society and other kids... let's face it kids can be cruel to other kids regardless if someones's parents are gay or not.. they are cruel to each other if a kid is overweight, not as attractive etc.. that is all a part of growing up... Growing Pains as they call it...
quote:That is why i feel the way i do about bringing kids into the relationship after becoming a gay/lesbian couple.
Don't knock it till it's been tried... i don't know what age you are but if you grew up prior to the 1960's I am sure your attitude would be same with segregation/integration, interracial couples, women voting/working etc..
quote:As far as the marriage part i could care less, but a lot of businesses care especially at a time when they are trying to cut everyones benefits(health etc.) they would love to not see it go through and i am sure they lobby against it.
They are always looking to stick it to the little guy/gal no matter the issue.. whether gay marriages or something else.. so nothing new...
quote:Wait until those rich celebrities decide to separate from their lover see how much they like the idea of marriage then.
No different then you separating from your wife I am sure. That is what marriage is. Some are successful and some end in divorce/separation. That is just life. But that is one reason i won't get marriage. Too much hassles and the 2nd reason is the person i was meant to marry has passed from this earth. Tess. R.I.P.
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Greed, for the lack of a better word is GOOD. Posts: 3261 | Registered: Mar 2004
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That's not much of a answer... i never said i can prove the exact person(s) who wrote the Bible just that it was written by a human out of their own creativity and imagination much like Stephen King and his novels.
Prove it was simply fiction, Mach.
You on the other hand can't ever prove a deity created us...
True enough. But you're right, from my perspective I don't HAVE to have proof. That's why debating religion itself is really quite pointless.
but hey if you want to believe such a "being" exists and never question whether he does because of no proof & because you were brainwashed throughout your life then so be it.. but leave your religion out of my home and everyone elses... in other words religion has no place in Gov't in what we can or cannot do other then the Freedom to practice whatever religion we want to...
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