posted
CashCow,What were you doing in a gay bar in the first place?My experience has been in most social settings is that the gay minority men will watch before they approach.If they see someone checking out other men or couples then it appears that they may have a chance.If you just check out women and they stilll hit on you it could be like fishing...he could be trolling and dropped a line your way.Try dancing more often so it doesnt appear as if you are available.I had some gay friends years ago and I am not gay.I had to ask questions similar to your experience.
"as for the "family" discussion, I whole-heartedly agree...people need to get back to the family, but with both parents working, the kids have little parental influence....Growing up, my mom was ALWAYS home..making lunch,dinner,always knowing where her kids(6) were. that was a nice, comfortable, feeling.."
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I think that's something that many in the new generations will never feel because of the changing times.
I do feel it also affects the behavior in the growing years, just my opinion and observation.
What bothers me is that some of these working parents can spend more time with their kids but choose to do other things and then use the excuse that when they take their kids out in the public or at home the kids mis-behave all the time(cry etc.)
I have heard that excuse with some of my daughters friends and others and it just makes me sick. They don't get the relationship between spending time with your kids and behavior or they do not want to get it.
It is not a guarantee to good behavior but sure can help.
I always think of the song that tells the story of dad being to busy for his kid can't remember the name... his kid grew up just like him.
Posts: 2384 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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I always think of the song that tells the story of dad being to busy for his kid can't remember the name... his kid grew up just like him.
Cats in the Cradle by Harry Chapin.... and in the song both were responsible Dad's... just no one has time in this world because everything is money and work work work work.... in Europe they get like 3 hour lunches... here some of us get 1/2 hour lunches... WTF???
-------------------- Money Never Sleeps Pal.
Greed, for the lack of a better word is GOOD. Posts: 3261 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: becoming abnormal?
see? this is where you lose me.
we are not "becoming abnormal"
do you believe that Leave It to Beaver and the Andy Griffith Show was a real portrayal of our society or ANY society?
how about the fact that our country was founded on economic principles of slave ownership and indentured servitude, and that we took land from people that truly owned it, but didn't have written DEEDS?
there is no "norm", and never was, never will be. there is no such thing as moral values that we built our nation on. Societal relationships are built and forged in the fires of Chaos.
Norms are fiction taught to people that have no curoisity....
I mean this with all sincerity, Glass, so please try not to take undue offense.
How do you live in this world if that really is your point of view on it?
Leave It to Beaver and the Andy Griffith Show and what they portrayed should be held up on pedastals and should be the goal we all strive for. The happy family that learns together and stands together through whatever comes should be imitated to all our best abilities. To allow anything else to supplant it is socitital suicide and we are feeling the effects of it right now.
Really SF, the only thing I see from your posts are your own prejudices disguised as being concerned about the eradication of the "traditional" family. You have offered no independent unbiased proof that gay marriages would lead to such a thing or "confuse" children about how to act with the opposite sex etc.. etc.. If anything gay marriages in our society would preach tolerance to our children towards people that are different much like we do with race, religion, gender etc.. It would teach them tolerance and not hatred. And we have enough hatred in this world, do not need more.
-------------------- Money Never Sleeps Pal.
Greed, for the lack of a better word is GOOD. Posts: 3261 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
Cats in the Cradle by Harry Chapin.... and in the song both were responsible Dad's... just no one has time in this world because everything is money and work work work work.... in Europe they get like 3 hour lunches... here some of us get 1/2 hour lunches... WTF???
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Thanks could not remember that one.
Got to make time!
Posts: 2384 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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quote:Originally posted by T e x: Little House days?
no, of course we're not...
too much the worse, though--as far as family values go.
Can *not* imagine why you're being flippant about my daughters, though.
In your culture, has respect slipped away?
We'll to me it seems that is what everyone wants... Little House days...
As for family values, why do family have to leave near each other to preach family values? I don't see it. To me if you raised your children right in "values" then it does not matter where they are located when they enter adulthood. Those "values" will always be instilled in them.
As for your daughters, I wasn't being flippant. I was merely trying to convey that dad needs to let them go and choose their destiny. They will always love dad and will always have his "values" that he taught them. They are only a phone call or plane ride away. Simple as that. If we all went by what everyone is posting here then none of our families would live in other states spreading our legacies and such. To me and in general everyone here (at least male wise) feel lonely without their kids near them and that what this is really about and not "family values" because if you raised them right then there is nothing to fear. So I wish everyone would admit it is about loneliness and not "values".
As for my own culture (what is my culture since I was born in the U.S. and am americanized????) i take offense to that comment since you do not know my family's culture (I would have to assume you mean Costa Rican culture).
-------------------- Money Never Sleeps Pal.
Greed, for the lack of a better word is GOOD. Posts: 3261 | Registered: Mar 2004
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: I had a gay man that was trying to hit on me over the weekend at this bar in the downtown of the city I live in. It was very uncomfortable to say the least with the things he was saying to me.
yuck!
Maybe you are such a darn cute Cow lol Anyways don't take offense to it, just politely tell them your not gay and be flattered that both sexes find you cute.
-------------------- Money Never Sleeps Pal.
Greed, for the lack of a better word is GOOD. Posts: 3261 | Registered: Mar 2004
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"To me and in general everyone here (at least male wise) feel lonely without their kids near them and that what this is really about and not "family values" because if you raised them right then there is nothing to fear. So I wish everyone would admit it is about loneliness and not "values".
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It would be nice to have my kids "close" but not in the same house, even though one of mine is not close.
I think we all know they need to live there own lives but that does not necessarily mean they have to live a long ways away.
I do think that being close to your kids and grandkids can help to ease some of the stresses that these times bring. This gives them more time to get out while we watch the grandkids instead of daycare or a baby sitter.
Daycare sucks but is a necessity in many cases.
Posts: 2384 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
You have offered no independent unbiased proof that gay marriages would lead to such a thing or "confuse" children about how to act with the opposite sex etc.. etc..
Since you seem to know me better than I do, Mach, what are my prejudices? Is it I'm homophobic? Anti-Semetic? White Supremicist? Which of the sterotypical bigotries am I guilty of since you seem to be able to read minds.
If you really want it, I will link you to several studies that support what I've said. I specifically didn't for one reason: you won't accept them. Anything I post will be called biased because of any myriad of reasons from the source is a conservative group or it didn't include the minority of the day.
If you don't like the answer, you can find any numbers of excuses to dismiss it...and most people do.
Posts: 577 | From: Utah | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
there's no such thing as "independent unbiased proof" in any "social science" society literally is chaos, always has been always will be, even in societies that demand conformity...
Homosexuality has been documented in China since ancient times.
none of the major Chinese religions consider homosexual acts as sin as many Christian churches do. Compared to sin in Christian culture, the list of sinful deeds in the codex of Confucianism does not include homosexuality. As long as a man does his duty and sires children, it is his private affair to have other male lovers.
This is also true in Taoism. Although each man is regarded as yang (陽,masculine), every man also has some yin (陰,feminine) in him. Some men can have much yin in them. So the presence of some feminine behavior is not viewed as unnatural for men. In this view, homosexuals can even be regarded as something very natural, according to the natural balance of yin and yang.
Homosexuality went underground after the formation of the People's Republic of China. The Communist regime persecuted homosexuals, especially during the Cultural Revolution, when many homosexuals were punished with long prison terms and sometimes execution. Social tolerance of homosexuality declined.
Since the policy of Reform and Opening Up in 1979, the Communist Party has been loosening its control over this kind of behavior. But the practice of homosexuality is still labeled as a "moldering life style of capitalism".
-------------------- "Man is the only kinda varmint that sets his own trap, baits it, and steps in it." Posts: 26312 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by SeekingFreedom: Since you seem to know me better than I do, Mach, what are my prejudices? Is it I'm homophobic? Anti-Semetic? White Supremicist? Which of the sterotypical bigotries am I guilty of since you seem to be able to read minds.
If you really want it, I will link you to several studies that support what I've said. I specifically didn't for one reason: you won't accept them. Anything I post will be called biased because of any myriad of reasons from the source is a conservative group or it didn't include the minority of the day.
If you don't like the answer, you can find any numbers of excuses to dismiss it...and most people do.
Yes, I do find you as being homophobic. You can say it as many ways as you want but the bottom line is you do not want homosexuals (both male and female) to have the same rights as heterosexuals and that includes issues not pertaining to marriage.
As for your "studies" you can link us to. I would not be surprised if they were in fact written by a "conservative" which in fact would make it biased. Wouldn't you agree?. In order for a report to be written and have no bias tied to it, it would have to be studied and written by a person who does not care either way about homosexuals or whatever topic it is.
I'll give you a example. I work in jewelry. Sometimes when we sell something to a customer they want a "appraisal". Sometimes we mark up the value of the item on our "appraisal" (most of the time at the request of the customer and we can only mark it up 25% from the purchase price). When a customer takes this "appraisal" to a appraiser outside of our company, that appraiser tells the customer the item is not worth what they pay for it and is really worth much much less. Now both my company and the outside appraiser have agendas when appraising a item. My company wants the customer to feel they got good value for their money. The outside appraiser most of the time is looking to get the customer to return the item and sell them their own item. Now a Gemological labratory will certify a diamonds quality (cut, color, carat and clarity) and from that a monetary value based on the current market can be assessed. Now my company and the outside appraiser is biased in their reports but the Gem Lab isn't because they do not care either way. They do not sell diamonds so their opinion on the diamond is "unbiased". I hope you see what I mean when it comes to your "studies" and any "study" me and others can come up with.
-------------------- Money Never Sleeps Pal.
Greed, for the lack of a better word is GOOD. Posts: 3261 | Registered: Mar 2004
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I've given my reasons for my opposition to gay marriage. I have explained my beliefs as to what the consequences to allowing it would be. Nothing in my posts directed anything resembling antipathy toward the individuals themselves. I don't agree with their choices, but I respect that it is THEIR choices.
Sorry, now for my moment of pettiness...
Mach, I don't know what sick priest you were an altar boy for...but not every christian conservative is the hate mongering bible belter you seem to think we are. There are those of us who actually do believe that "Love thy Neighbor" was more than just a passing suggestion. Just because I\we disagree with something doesn't mean we ostracize people for it.
Love the sinner, hate the sin.
Posts: 577 | From: Utah | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
Nothing in my posts directed anything resembling antipathy toward the individuals themselves. I don't agree with their choices, but I respect that it is THEIR choices.
i believe that you believe this, but you made value judgments which i pointed out.
you did make it a "survival of the fittest" argument, but the reality of the human social condition is that we do in fact participate in a considerable amount of behaviour that has nothing to do with survival of the fittest.
-------------------- "Man is the only kinda varmint that sets his own trap, baits it, and steps in it." Posts: 26312 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:If you really want it, I will link you to several studies that support what I've said. I specifically didn't for one reason: you won't accept them.
You got that right!!!
quote:but the bottom line is you do not want homosexuals (both male and female) to have the same rights as heterosexuals and that includes issues not pertaining to marriage.
TOTAL NONSENSE! Conservatives want gays to have EXACTLY the same rights as everyone else - WITH NO PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT!
Posts: 786 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager: TOTAL NONSENSE! Conservatives want gays to have EXACTLY the same rights as everyone else - WITH NO PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT!
What f*cking world you living in because you know that is BS.... not giving gays the right to marry is not having the same rights as everyone else and it is giving preferential treatment to heterosexuals... that is just for starters among other things conservatives try to squash in terms of rights for gays...
-------------------- Money Never Sleeps Pal.
Greed, for the lack of a better word is GOOD. Posts: 3261 | Registered: Mar 2004
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posted
You know any red blooded man in his right mind wouldn't mind seeing some hot lesbians making out.
Posts: 2242 | From: The highway | Registered: Feb 2004
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quote:not giving gays the right to marry is not having the same rights as everyone else and it is giving preferential treatment to heterosexuals...
Mach, that's ridiculous. Gays have the exact same right to get married as everyone else - TO A MEMBER OF THE OPPOSITE SEX! Marriage is between a man and a woman, so there is no such thing as Gay Marriage (between same sex partners). SIMPLE!
Posts: 786 | From: Ohio | Registered: Oct 2007
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quote:Originally posted by Highwaychild: You know any red blooded man in his right mind wouldn't mind seeing some hot lesbians making out.
lol, that's rookie thrill-seekers, imo
a three-way in which everyone is interested in everyone having having fun can be very pleasssant. But when the two women are really only interested in each other? gets boring, pretty quick...
Mach posts:
quote:We'll to me it seems that is what everyone wants... Little House days...
As for family values, why do family have to leave near each other to preach family values? I don't see it. To me if you raised your children right in "values" then it does not matter where they are located when they enter adulthood. Those "values" will always be instilled in them.
As for your daughters, I wasn't being flippant. I was merely trying to convey that dad needs to let them go and choose their destiny. They will always love dad and will always have his "values" that he taught them. They are only a phone call or plane ride away. Simple as that. If we all went by what everyone is posting here then none of our families would live in other states spreading our legacies and such. To me and in general everyone here (at least male wise) feel lonely without their kids near them and that what this is really about and not "family values" because if you raised them right then there is nothing to fear. So I wish everyone would admit it is about loneliness and not "values".
As for my own culture (what is my culture since I was born in the U.S. and am americanized????) i take offense to that comment since you do not know my family's culture (I would have to assume you mean Costa Rican culture).
lol, *you* can't take offense--I took offense, first.
You say, "To me if you raised your children right in 'values' then it does not matter where they are located when they enter adulthood."
Either I posted poorly, or you misunderstood: What I was saying is that I do NOT understand the "modern push" of shooing kids out of their HOME just because they reach a certain age.
How does that sound like clinging?
All my kids--and several of their friends--know they've always got a place here. In fact, Tex, Jr. has returned home, and his immediately older sister is due back in a few weeks. Completely their choice--and a decision I was not in on until *after* they had decided between themselves, for individual reasons.
In my son's case, he had tried living with his mother and her girlfriend--once again (so far, that particular dynamic has never worked more than a few months)--partly because their place was closer to his college campus. After the holidays, they told him he needed to get his own place because he's over 18 and should be on his own. They gave him a deadline--BUT when they learned he and his sister had decided to come home instead? chit hit the fan...they told him he needed to leave N-O-W.
Is that some *special* lesbian jealousy? I dunno... I can tell you this, though: my ex's partner is strikingly damaging to families and kids, AND my ex does make some strikingly bizarre decisions since jumping the fence...
Now, my daughter who is coming home has *her* own reasons, and is even bringing a roommate to live here for the roommate's senior year in college.
My oldest daughter lives about 900 miles away, where she's kinda famous, and we visit when we can and e-mail or phone quite often. I can guarantee you that neither has she ever felt any reluctance to spread her wings--but she also knows if she needed to come home...no problem.
In fact? If *I* needed to lean on her, well...it just goes without saying.
Bottom line: I was NOT talking about my family. My children and I are good in the family and values department, with of course our own set of challenges/opportunities. I was posting about SOCIETY, which I see careening and bob-sledding into ever-increasing, fragmented niches with TV specials about the HORRORS of BOOMERANG KIDS and elderly left to rot in "nursing" homes.
and, btw...I didn't insult your culture, I asked about it. Gotta love it, bro--our first spat, lol.
I always think of the song that tells the story of dad being to busy for his kid can't remember the name... his kid grew up just like him.
Cats in the Cradle by Harry Chapin.... and in the song both were responsible Dad's... just no one has time in this world because everything is money and work work work work.... in Europe they get like 3 hour lunches... here some of us get 1/2 hour lunches... WTF???
oooh, oooh....
Perhaps our second spat...
quote:in the song both were responsible Dad's...
I don't get that *at all* from that song.
I get "you reap what you sow" you negligent bazturd. Sure, I missed some games and plays and recitals--but not many.
Here's what way too many Dads don't get: You don't have to be "perfect." You don't have to be able to "explain everything." But you DO need to show up and BE THERE.
Divorced? New girlfriend? New boyfriend? No job? New raise?
Whatever... be there. Maybe not everytime--kids are flexible, up to a point. But as pattern?
posted
You don't have to be "perfect." You don't have to be able to "explain everything." But you DO need to show up and BE THERE.
that was my take too. but i didn't see/hear failure, i just heard resignation that things weren't as good as they could be...
failure would be: the kid's calling collect from Folsom...
-------------------- "Man is the only kinda varmint that sets his own trap, baits it, and steps in it." Posts: 26312 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: You don't have to be "perfect." You don't have to be able to "explain everything." But you DO need to show up and BE THERE.
that was my take too. but i didn't see/hear failure, i just heard resignation that things weren't as good as they could be...
failure would be: the kid's calling collect from Folsom...
posted
i believe that you believe this, but you made value judgments which i pointed out.
Lol, Glass, I think I remember owning up to it as well. I think the problem is that we have lumped two seperate discussions together. Whether homosexuality is right or wrong and whether they should be alowed to have the civil union recognized as on par with traditional marriage.
On the first, I fully agree and accept that it is a value based judgement call. If you believe it's a sin (under whatever religion you care to use) then you're against it. If you feel it's got nothing to do with right and wrong and it's just a preference then you're more than likely for it or at least not against anyone choosing it.
I'm against homosexuality on principle due largely to my religious beliefs. I don't deny that in the least. However, I do have several gay friends and a gay uncle whom I care for just the same. They understand that I disagree with the choice but respect them anyways. I disagree with smoking. That doesn't mean I want all smokers to be cast out of our society. I disagree with their choice, but as long as it's legal it's still their choice. My friends that smoke simply respect me enough not to smoke around me. Mutual respect.
The second is an entirely different matter for the reasons I've already outlined. It doesn't have to be a value based call if one believes that it will be harmful to the society in and of itself.
Posts: 577 | From: Utah | Registered: Mar 2008
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posted
Well said SF, I agree with you. I am a smoker and I have several buddies who aren't. I will smoke in front of them as long as we are outside , I will not smoke in a room or vehicle with them out of repect. I respect my freinds and I earn some respect because of it. On the whole gay wedding thing and their rights, I have a few gay employees, I know it, they know it, eveyone knows it........ but the closet is still closed because of mom and dad. What ever and none of my buisness. If they want the same benifits, fine.... don't call them married, I think that is disrespectfull to the institution. SEPERATION OF CHURCH AND STATE. If your gonna say it, mean it government.
-------------------- If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy? Posts: 2549 | From: MN | Registered: Feb 2006
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