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Author Topic: Boy, Driving for Dad, Charged With DUI
J_U_ICE
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Nov 15, 10:05 PM (ET)
CLIO, Mich. (AP) - A police officer checking on a truck that got stuck in the mud at a city park was startled to find a 13-year-old boy behind the wheel. The boy's father, who was sitting in the passenger seat, told police he had had too much to drink and let his son drive. The boy had been drinking, too, police said.

"(The boy) even said he didn't want to drive because he was too drunk," McLellan told The Flint Journal for a story published Thursday.

Open containers of beer and liquor were found in the vehicle, said Clio Police Chief James McLellan.

The father, a 41-year-old Flint-area man, is facing several misdemeanor counts, including child endangerment, allowing an intoxicated person to drive his vehicle and allowing an unlicensed minor to drive, police said.

The boy has been petitioned into juvenile court on charges that include driving while intoxicated, police said.

The two were arrested Nov. 8. They apparently were trying to get home when they turned into the park to turn around. The truck rolled off the pavement and became stuck in the muddy soil.

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glassman
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the other day i saw a woman driving down the road with a four year old (or so) sittin' in her lap steering while she talked on her cell phone...

this was in a residential area with cars parked on each side of the street, kids playing in yards etc... [Eek!]

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classified
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Carelessness, stupidity....thats all it is.
Its all fun and games 'till somebody gets hurt.

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bdgee
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Using a cell phone while driving, hand held or not, is recklessly endangering everyone around. Reckless endangerment is a criminal offense in most jurisdictions. No new law is required.

That it is also selfish and ill mannered is another story.

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glassman
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oh, i forgot to mention that neither was wearing a seatbelt either...

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bdgee
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I'm not much of a believer in seat belts since I was once pronounced dead because of one. Too, I've seen "unwashed" data on seat belts "saving" lives. It's only after they've bleached that the "statistics" look so good.
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Seatbelts help more than they hurt...imo.

How did a seatbelt almost kill you?

I know its possible but how?

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bdgee
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"How did a seatbelt almost kill you?"

Drug me back through the window of a car that had come to a sudden stop against a stone wall.

Of course you believe that "Seatbelts help more than they hurt", because you have been inundated with propaganda to that effect all your life while being denied the actual data.

It took over 20 years for them to finally admit the things killed tykes after the data had showed conclusively it was the case. Actually, it was longer than 20 years and, in fact, for almost all that time, they hid the facts and claimed otherwise. The same thing was (and still is....and for the elderly too)true about airbags and, without side airbags, even for normal adults unless the collision was head on. (The real data on airbag safety is downright scary.)

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glassman
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lol budgee, if you wear them properly? they'll help 99% of the time...

lap belts only? yeah more dangerous than not...

i've been in a lot of car wrecks, i used to race at the dirt track...

i started wearing them all the time on the street after i spun a car 360 and drove away ONLY cuz i was still behind the wheel and able to control the car...

watch this and tell me safety equipment properly used is worthless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icifQP5QBUQ

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bdgee
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You assume a lot that is false, glass...

I did NOT say "safety equipment properly used is worthless."

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quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
"How did a seatbelt almost kill you?"

Drug me back through the window of a car that had come to a sudden stop against a stone wall.

Of course you believe that "Seatbelts help more than they hurt", because you have been inundated with propaganda to that effect all your life while being denied the actual data.

It took over 20 years for them to finally admit the things killed tykes after the data had showed conclusively it was the case. Actually, it was longer than 20 years and, in fact, for almost all that time, they hid the facts and claimed otherwise. The same thing was (and still is....and for the elderly too)true about airbags and, without side airbags, even for normal adults unless the collision was head on. (The real data on airbag safety is downright scary.)

Show me your data please.

If this is true then I guess seatbelts were invented to help make drivers feel safer thus selling more vehicles and it links to the inelastic demand and selling of gas and so cops could give tickets if you don't "click it." Oil companys thought up the seat belt to increase sales...Right? lmao!

Damn I'm good. Did I miss anything? [Wink]

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bdgee
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Don't be superficial. I haven't worked in that stuff for over 20 years and I don't usually keep data for long ago research laying around. The last time I saw any of it it was packed in cardboard boxes and sent into storage in the facilities of a university where it was to stay for 9 years before being disposed of finally.

Were you old enough, you would remember that, in order to get the public to accept the idea of seatbelt laws, they promised that they would never be enforced except when some other violation by a person had first been determined, i.e., they promised to not EVER give tickets for not wearing them unless there was some other reason for stopping some one.

I remember writing a huge research report to Congress about the effects of truck weights on highway deterioration. The data showed that the primary causes of highway deterioration was not truck weight or traffic, but weather. The report was rejected by joint House-Senate committee with a requirement that it be rewritten with a conclusion that said the major cause of highway deterioration was heavy traffic by over weight trucks. In actuality, we resubmitted the report, unaltered except containing an initial one sentence paragraph with the exact wording the committee had required. It went through without further question. The data and actual conclusions therefrom remained unchanged for the concerned reader to find. (I didn't keep any of that data either. Or any of the data about solid rocketfuel burning primarily along cracks within the crystalized fuel or the data from a study conducted for the Peabody museums on carbon dating very small samples. But somewhere I do have the original notes from which the proof was distilled that every connected subset of the plane with x-projection the x-axis does not contain a real connectivity function from R to R, though I don't know why I have kept it.)

I learned three specific things from that experience with the congressional committee. First, the "lawmakers" do not bother to actually read or understand the nitti-gritti of the laws they pass. Second, lobbying efforts and their interest easily over ride facts in any political setting. Third, that truth is not the basis of governmental declarations.

"Damn I'm good. Did I miss anything?"

Yes, you missed the opportunity to not demonstrate you are the sort of fool that buys into whatever government propaganda claims.

Are you also wrapped up in the notion that Saddam had storehouses of atom bombs and he had rockets capable of striking NY City already tipped with some of thase atom bombs and mounted on launchers only awaiting his command to wipe out America?

And did you buy into the absurd claim that Iraq and Saddam was involved in plotting and launching the 9/11 attacks?

When did you discover that the Easter Bunny was a fiction and, even though many millions of four year olds believed it, it was nonsense. I bet you reaction then too was

"....Right? lmao!"

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jordanreed
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I bet we'll see helmets for auto drivers!...I'm sure its been brought up at some meeting of the minds...I see it as another way to pull us over to keep tabs on us sheep and put more money in their pockets. the seatbelt law is absolutely ri(dick)ulus. is it "protect and serve"? ...not anymore. they have taken that off the cop cars now.it says "law enforcement" now. It should say"harass and incarcerate". I hate to imagine what my 20 yr old will have to put up with.

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glassman
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The data showed that the primary causes of highway deterioration was not truck weight or traffic, but weather.

true enough. weather is the number one deteriorant of everything we put outside...

did it ever occur to you that that was so obvious they didn't give a chit?

when it rains? i drive on TOP of the "hills" in the lanes since the trucks have created "valleys" full of water that could and do cause cars to hydroplane...

and i know it's trucks that do this cuz the right lanes are always worse than the left lanes..


it's not the speed that kills, it's stopping too fast that kills..

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bdgee
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Yep, it is the stopping that gets ya.

In the business (road construction and design) the right lane is called the truck lane and often it is provided with more sub-structure than the other lanes. (It gets a way bunch more use too, because almost every state requires that trucks use only the rightmost lane unless passing and several states have archaic laws requiring all traffic to do likewise.)

Those water catching tire tracks in the truck lane are a matter of the heating and deformation of the surface asphalt, not a structural failure.

"did it ever occur to you that that was so obvious they didn't give a chit?"

No indeed, since the reason Congress had paid for the study was to have data from which they could "manage" to tax those that were the cause of the highway deterioration for its repair proportionately for the damage they had done. Instead, after several years study the report contained data demonstrating that mother nature was the only one that had actually earned such a penalty. There was a mite of consternation, because the group that had proposed the study had done so with assurance that it would point the finger of guilt at trucks. The proposed bill died for lack of data supporting a reason to add an additional federal tax on trucking.

But, I promise you that at the time of that study was begun, that weather was the principal reason for highway deterioration was not known and the sanctioned theories (that I also believed, then) were that over 90% of highway deterioration was due to trucks and less than 1% was due to weather (provided a road base was up to standards, which since have had to be changed). Actually, if adequately maintained and constructed, even weather isn't that bad and geologic forces becomes the major problem. Water egress through the surface layer into the base, due to failure to properly maintain the surface is a major factor.

There is a marvelous and facinating publication in a respected European journal of physics during the 1800s that "proves" that speed kills, based on the calculation from Newton's equations of the speed of falling bodies due to gravity. Data was provided showing that there was no known incidence of someone living through having fallen from the forth floor of any London building, while there were a number of badly damaged individuals that had completely recovered from falls from third floors. Not only did it conclude that speed kills, but they were able to establish a proposed speed at which death was assured.

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glassman
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heating and deformation of the surface asphalt, not a structural failure.

LOL if trucks didn't drive on 'em they wouldn't get more deformed than the non-truck lane... budge, i don't know how you come up with this stuff...

so the asphalt gets soft when it's hot and the extra weight of the trucks deforms it MORE than a car..

as for cold? it doesn't get cold here, and the roads are still grooved and tore up where the dump trucks run every day..... our frost line is non-existent...

we are talking about an exponential difference here.. 8000 to 9,999 lbs (heaviest of the heavy non-commercial traffic versus 80,000 pounds 18 wheelers and dumpers carrying sand and gravel...


after several years study the report contained data demonstrating that mother nature was the only one that had actually earned such a penalty
LOL... that report was a waste of money then..

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glassman
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when i was living in NE? i was living just off I80..

the weigh station was just after my exit...

teh number of trucks using our road to bypass the weigh station was amazing..

the NE Troopers knew this too and frequently set up checkpoints with portable scales...

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bdgee
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"so the asphalt gets soft when it's hot and the extra weight of the trucks deforms it MORE than a car.."

no, not really. It is the far greater number of tires that pass over the asphalt in the truck lane that raises the temperature higher and that then deforms the softer surface.

"as for cold? it doesn't get cold here, and the roads are still grooved and tore up where the dump trucks run every day..... our frost line is non-existent..."

It isn't the frost line that is the problem. Indeed, for a place where the ground remains frozen all winter, there is just that one freeze-thaw cycle per year, while in the south, the number of freeze-thaws per year is very high. Freeze thaw cycles are particularly telling for highway deterioration. Water that seeps into the pavement freezes and expands, breaking up the structure. I surveyed the entire U.S. with records from weather data for a period of 7 years. Northern Mississippi is one of the worse areas for freeze-thaw cycles. West Texas and Northwest Arizona are about tied for the worst.

You seem to be religious about as well as misinformed about the mechanisms of pavement deterioration.

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glassman
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i ain't in northern MS.
and i know of what i speak. you may have read data, but i actually pay attention to the deatils since i have outdoor plumbing. we get two freezes a year here on average... bridges often get some ice when the road doesn't because they are above grade.

i am also well aware of how water penetrates rocks and potholes and the freeze expansion cracks them. we ain't got dat here.

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glassman
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of course, since i just "had" to argue with you over this we've already had three significant hard freezes this year budge [Wink]

including icy rain and snow that didn't stick...

i even had a dripping faucet in the garden freeze solid, but the pipe didn't break, i guess i got lucky.

i expect we'll have at least one more too...

isn't it ironic, dontcha think?

right now tho? we need to turn on the AC [Roll Eyes]

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Highwaychild
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That last one won't get you Glass. And it'll be 100 before you know it.lol

I'm kinda in the south too and that last cold blast went south of us. Weird.

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glassman
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then i'll go ahead and start my garden. JK..

the hail we'll get in March will destroy all my plantlets...

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The Bigfoot
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Just finally climbed back above 0 this weekend here.

Very happy to peel off the long johns.

We need to get away from asphalt roads and cars as we know 'em IMO. Biggest drain on the economy and largest preventable killer in the country.

Let's use some of that 21st century ingenuity and create the next generation of personal transportation.

In my mind's eye I'm seeing an elevated rail system with personal electric cars computer controlled by GPS. No more drunk drivers, no more teen accidents, and no more traffic jams.

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glassman
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sounds great.

how do we convince the people with all the money it's a worthwhile investment?

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The Bigfoot
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Don't look at me Glass.

I'm a dreamer, not a salesman. [Smile]

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glassman
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and i'm an uncompromising hardhead. we need some help here. [Big Grin]

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bdgee
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" we need some help here. "

Al Gore is helping as best he can.

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