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a surfer
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http://www.wqad.com/Global/link.asp?L=259460


Do the simple 11 questions and see who is best for you.

Hillary was second to last for me.

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T e x
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interesting, nice link

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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bdgee
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It gave me two people, T. Roosevelt and H. Truman.
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Lockman
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quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
It gave me two people, T. Roosevelt and H. Truman.

I like Harry Truman also, after all he dropped the big one and withdrew our troops in victory.

--------------------
Let's Go METS!!!

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bdgee
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"...withdrew our troops in victory."

As in Korea?

Withdrew from where?

Is your grasp of history really that flawed?

Seems to me we have maintained forces in Japan and Germany (and several other places) ever since WWII.

I think Truman was one of the truely great presidents, but not because of what you right-wingers choose to admire with your 17th century retarded social philosophy and ignorant notions that this country's principals are based on religion (of any kind). Truman understood and respected the Constitution. What's more, he understood and respected people and the need for them to be able to be independent individuals and free from government control of their personal and religious lives. He thought each of us should be able to make our decisions on social things based on our own convictions rather than the religious dogma of others.

(It should be noted that he was NOT a draft dodger like the present occupamnt of the White house and, essentially, all of his cohearts and the entire crew of republicans that champion war as a device to settle international disagreements. . He knew from actual battle experience what it was to face gunfire and see your compatriots killed and maimed. Lets just ignore the fact that he was, initially, a political product of a Missouri political machine. He parted with them before during the war.)

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Lockman
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Did we not declare Victory in WWII and did the majority of our troops come home? I understand we left forces in Germany and Japan as a stablizing presence, do you honestly believe we shouldn't have?

And what's with the paragraph and a half of your personal hatred of religion, written to look like some kind of a history lesson. We all understand your hatred of religion and President Bush.

Have a cold one and chill out.

--------------------
Let's Go METS!!!

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Munchkin Man
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Greetings To All:

The Munchkin Man came up with Duncan Hunter as his preferred candidate with 75 points.

http://www.gohunter08.com/

Duncan Hunter is the man!

Munchkin Man

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bdgee
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quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
Did we not declare Victory in WWII and did the majority of our troops come home? I understand we left forces in Germany and Japan as a stablizing presence, do you honestly believe we shouldn't have?

And what's with the paragraph and a half of your personal hatred of religion, written to look like some kind of a history lesson. We all understand your hatred of religion and President Bush.

Have a cold one and chill out.

Simply because you hate anything that does not stem from far right-wing evangelical bigotry and is not bent to your narrow minded and backward lack of intellectual generousity does not mean that you may, by falsely declaring it to be opposite your self centered misconstrued violation of reason, brand it as being other than what you like and thus be hate. Your excuse for logic is every bit as twisted and limited as is your mixed up philosophy, which is a torrent of hatred.

One, such as you, that refuses to even consider the horror and destruction (not only to the Constitution and the American experience, but to humanity in general) that the crooks that are now in the Administration (placed there and protected by party first country last loyalty) have wrought, clearly are blinded to seeing that you spend immense effort hating things American while promoting the worst type if dictatorial oppression that the world has seen since the Nazi Party was driven control of Germany and the ultra-religious doctrine of Japan was eliminated in Japan. Indeed that is the type of vulgarity of government that you so often preach for with your advocation for the destruction of the Constitution....a government of hate and intolerance.

It isn't hate you see, but reason and patriotism that questions the doctrines you preach. You not only need to learn from history but stop trying to deny to others the right to do so.

And where in God's name did you come up with this accusation except from the depts of your shallow biased confused mind: "I understand we left forces in Germany and Japan as a stablizing presence, do you honestly believe we shouldn't have?"

I never so much as suggested any such thing and you are a jerk of the first class for so inferring, suggesting, or stating. Honestly my rear! I never said it or anything that might, by any reasonable and honorable person, hint at such a thing. YOU LIE! And you do so with crude mean evil intent.

Indeed, I quote you saying again, "I like Harry Truman also, after all he dropped the big one and withdrew our troops in victory."

Again, you said: "...after all he withdrew our troops in victory."

Truman DID NOT withdraw our troups. I see them still there!

It was you, not me, who misstated the facts of history. I simply point out your misstatements.

Harry Truman did not okay the A-bombing of Japan to be macho and show off what we could do, but to bring an end to war and save hundreds of thousands....maybe millions...of lives in an invasion of Japan.

That macho idea of war and punishment in place of diplomacy you champion is sick!


So, shut the crap and you take your hatred of everything not pronounced by the dubya and

"Have a cold one and chill out.

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turbokid
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HAHA i came up with Giuliani
one of the last on my list. the points on which i disagree are the most important iraq, immigration, line item veto..

plus most importantly look who his foreign policy advisor is !!!

Norman Podhoretz
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Podhoretz

another pro war neo-con who strongly advocates bombing iran.
if you follow anything i post here you know that i think no matter who gets into office they will have foreign policy advisors who are israel first neocons.
He also signed the PNAC letter to clinton advocating "regime change in iraq"
i find it remarkable that a small group of extremists can effectivly hijack the government of the United States !!

--------------------
"Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over."
Herbert Hoover 1930

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bdgee
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This same "small group of extremists"s was trained first in the Nixon White House and then did graduate study in the Reagan administration. In both cases they were caught red handed violating the Constitution.

The Party, acting through Congressional protocol, manipulated the provisions of the Constitution to get them off on technicalities.

All of their training (indoctrination) tells them to lie and set up secret "dirty tricks" to undermine the democratic process and wage war to act as a smoke screen for keeping the people from seeing what is really going on and undermining the Constitution in order to set up a quasi-royal ruling class. It is the only political philosophy they have ever been exposed to.

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Lockman
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quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
Did we not declare Victory in WWII and did the majority of our troops come home? I understand we left forces in Germany and Japan as a stablizing presence, do you honestly believe we shouldn't have?

And what's with the paragraph and a half of your personal hatred of religion, written to look like some kind of a history lesson. We all understand your hatred of religion and President Bush.

Have a cold one and chill out.

Simply because you hate anything that does not stem from far right-wing evangelical bigotry and is not bent to your narrow minded and backward lack of intellectual generousity does not mean that you may, by falsely declaring it to be opposite your self centered misconstrued violation of reason, brand it as being other than what you like and thus be hate. Your excuse for logic is every bit as twisted and limited as is your mixed up philosophy, which is a torrent of hatred.

One, such as you, that refuses to even consider the horror and destruction (not only to the Constitution and the American experience, but to humanity in general) that the crooks that are now in the Administration (placed there and protected by party first country last loyalty) have wrought, clearly are blinded to seeing that you spend immense effort hating things American while promoting the worst type if dictatorial oppression that the world has seen since the Nazi Party was driven control of Germany and the ultra-religious doctrine of Japan was eliminated in Japan. Indeed that is the type of vulgarity of government that you so often preach for with your advocation for the destruction of the Constitution....a government of hate and intolerance.

It isn't hate you see, but reason and patriotism that questions the doctrines you preach. You not only need to learn from history but stop trying to deny to others the right to do so.

And where in God's name did you come up with this accusation except from the depts of your shallow biased confused mind: "I understand we left forces in Germany and Japan as a stablizing presence, do you honestly believe we shouldn't have?"

I never so much as suggested any such thing and you are a jerk of the first class for so inferring, suggesting, or stating. Honestly my rear! I never said it or anything that might, by any reasonable and honorable person, hint at such a thing. YOU LIE! And you do so with crude mean evil intent.

Indeed, I quote you saying again, "I like Harry Truman also, after all he dropped the big one and withdrew our troops in victory."

Again, you said: "...after all he withdrew our troops in victory."

Truman DID NOT withdraw our troups. I see them still there!

It was you, not me, who misstated the facts of history. I simply point out your misstatements.

Harry Truman did not okay the A-bombing of Japan to be macho and show off what we could do, but to bring an end to war and save hundreds of thousands....maybe millions...of lives in an invasion of Japan.

That macho idea of war and punishment in place of diplomacy you champion is sick!


So, shut the crap and you take your hatred of everything not pronounced by the dubya and

"Have a cold one and chill out.

Bdgee, All this and all I did was agree that Harry Truman was a great President. You really must seek help for you over sized imagination.
I would agree with you more except I don't happen to share your socialistic democrat views.

--------------------
Let's Go METS!!!

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The Bigfoot
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Edwards and Biden topped the list with me followed by Clinton and Obama.

My answers:
Favor Timetable
Favor Security and path to citizenship
Oppose Permanent Tax Cuts
Favor stem cell research (Much more complicated than a yes and no answer though)
Favor Universal Health Care
Favor legalized abortion (Again more complicated than yes/no)
Favor Private Social Security
Favor Line-Item Veto
Favor Federal Assistance to alternative energy
Favor marriage amendment (but favor same rights to same sex couples)
Favor Death Penalty

BF

--------------------
No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.

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jordanreed
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Kinky Friedman...

--------------------
jordan

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bdgee
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quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
quote:

Bdgee, All this and all I did was agree that Harry Truman was a great President. You really must seek help for you over sized imagination.
I would agree with you more except I don't happen to share your socialistic democrat views.
[/QB]

No, that is not what you did.

Were it actually the case that "...all (you) did was agree witn (me) that Truman was a great president..", then it would be true that I agree with you and cheer dropping the bomb and accept the absurd notion that Truman "withdrew our troops in victory".

I never said, in that post above, that Truman was a great president or suggested any ranking of the quality of his presidency. With that topic in question, I do believe he was among the greatest of all the presidents )possibly the greatest), but in no way was it because of dropping the bomb or for bringing the troops home. One of those is not so commendable, the other didn't happen. He had no options but to drop the bomb or see maybe millions of more people die in the war. Your other claimed reason is simply an absurd misstatement of history.

Neither the truly horrible consequences of the bomb nor the extent those horrors were known until years afterward, so I cannot fault Truman for choosing to save those lives, however, even without the bomb's horrors, cheering a terrible act carried out in war, as you are claiming I did when you say you only agreed with me is saying I condone such am attitude. It isn't the dropping of the bomb I find so vulgar (given that back then the results were not understood), but the childish sick attitude that is so eager to cheer it as if it were a break away run for a touchdown in a high school football game. I refuse to be lowered to that sickness.

"You really must seek help for you over sized imagination." is more of the crude insulting BS you employ, because you don't have the where-with-all to actually counter with rational debate and resort to character attack instead. It is a standard tactic of the republican hate machine. It provides no information, only assaults and insults to peoples character without any basis or reason other than vileness.

So far as this bull, "I would agree with you more except I don't happen to share your socialistic democrat views.", what you are trying to do is pigeon-hole those you want to smear into a category you want to dislike. However, what you accomplish, other than once again trying to get away with rudeness, is proving that you simply don't know what socialism is and have no concept of what a democrat is. I'll give you a hint. Neither is what the far right-wing evangelical extremist of the neo-con dominated republican hate machine you participate in claims.

Disagreeing with and disputing the absurd assertions of the far right-wing evangelical extremist of the neo-con dominated republican hate machine does not make one be either a socialist or a democrat, no matter what you are taught to believe by hypocritical preachings of the hero of the American Nazi party, Fat Rush the Doper, that you echo so loudly and eagerly. Indeed, opposition to those attacks on the Constitution and the freedoms it assures to us makes one a patriotic American.

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bdgee
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quote:
Originally posted by jordanreed:
Kinky Friedman...

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/k/kinky+friedman/they+aint+makin+jews+like+jesus+anym ore_20079424.html
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cottonjim
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Duncan Hunter, who knew!....... I don't think so.

--------------------
If ignorance is bliss, why aren't more people happy?

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Upside
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John Edwards
Joe Biden
Rudy Giuliani
Hillary Clinton

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classified
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Whoa bdgee..
You know your stuff man.. [Wink]

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Lockman
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quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
quote:
Originally posted by Lockman:
quote:

Bdgee, All this and all I did was agree that Harry Truman was a great President. You really must seek help for you over sized imagination.
I would agree with you more except I don't happen to share your socialistic democrat views.

No, that is not what you did.

Were it actually the case that "...all (you) did was agree witn (me) that Truman was a great president..", then it would be true that I agree with you and cheer dropping the bomb and accept the absurd notion that Truman "withdrew our troops in victory".

I never said, in that post above, that Truman was a great president or suggested any ranking of the quality of his presidency. With that topic in question, I do believe he was among the greatest of all the presidents )possibly the greatest), but in no way was it because of dropping the bomb or for bringing the troops home. One of those is not so commendable, the other didn't happen. He had no options but to drop the bomb or see maybe millions of more people die in the war. Your other claimed reason is simply an absurd misstatement of history.

Neither the truly horrible consequences of the bomb nor the extent those horrors were known until years afterward, so I cannot fault Truman for choosing to save those lives, however, even without the bomb's horrors, cheering a terrible act carried out in war, as you are claiming I did when you say you only agreed with me is saying I condone such am attitude. It isn't the dropping of the bomb I find so vulgar (given that back then the results were not understood), but the childish sick attitude that is so eager to cheer it as if it were a break away run for a touchdown in a high school football game. I refuse to be lowered to that sickness.

"You really must seek help for you over sized imagination." is more of the crude insulting BS you employ, because you don't have the where-with-all to actually counter with rational debate and resort to character attack instead. It is a standard tactic of the republican hate machine. It provides no information, only assaults and insults to peoples character without any basis or reason other than vileness.

So far as this bull, "I would agree with you more except I don't happen to share your socialistic democrat views.", what you are trying to do is pigeon-hole those you want to smear into a category you want to dislike. However, what you accomplish, other than once again trying to get away with rudeness, is proving that you simply don't know what socialism is and have no concept of what a democrat is. I'll give you a hint. Neither is what the far right-wing evangelical extremist of the neo-con dominated republican hate machine you participate in claims.

Disagreeing with and disputing the absurd assertions of the far right-wing evangelical extremist of the neo-con dominated republican hate machine does not make one be either a socialist or a democrat, no matter what you are taught to believe by hypocritical preachings of the hero of the American Nazi party, Fat Rush the Doper, that you echo so loudly and eagerly. Indeed, opposition to those attacks on the Constitution and the freedoms it assures to us makes one a patriotic American. [/QB]

I would agree if you want to get technical that Harry Truman did not bring all our troops home, most but not all. He did order the dropping of two Atomic bombs that saved American lives.

Maybe to save American service personnel in Iraq we should withdraw our troops and ....

--------------------
Let's Go METS!!!

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bdgee
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"Maybe to save American service personnel in Iraq we should withdraw our troops ...."


YES!

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glassman
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Neither the truly horrible consequences of the bomb nor the extent those horrors were known until years afterward

not true... see Marie Curie, and specifically how she died..

however, he still did the correct thing IMO..

he saved lives on both sides of the war.

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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classified
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I got four Hilary Clintons!?
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bdgee
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Marie Curie died a horrible and painful death from radiation poisoning due to years of handling radioactive uranium.

But the actual extent of fall out from the atomic bomb was not known in 1945 and the mechanism of radiation poisoning and what sort of or amount of exposure was necessary to bring on radiation poisoning was yet a mystery. Most of the radiating isotopes formed and left as dangerous fall out after a nuclear explosion had not so much as been imagined, let alone described and measured.

The major concerns of the majority of the knowledgable scientist at the time was the dange of a "chain reaction" that might consume the athmosphere, leaving us all sufficating. There was almost no concern with resulting radiation sickness.

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glassman
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they still play dumb on how bad it was bdgee, cuz it's even worse than they let on...

i'm amused that you think the chain reaction destroying the atmosphere theory was not a horrible consequence..

Marie died of aplastic anemia more than 10 years before they dropped the bomb.. they were already "onto" how toxic ionising radiation is...

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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this is what they are "playing with" in Iran, but they are supposedly not enriching it to the levels this guy exposed himself to...


Human Toxicity Excerpts:
/CASE REPORTS/ /ACUTE RADIATION SYNDROME/ At the highest doses in the domain of 10,000 rads (100 gray), the reaction is immediate. One example is that of an individual who worked in a uranium-235 recovery plant ... He inadvertently poured a container held under his left arm, filled with a solution of uranium-235-enriched uranium, into a barrel already containing a similar solution. He apparently lost track of how much fissionable material the barrel contained. The amount he added exceeded criticality. There was a blue flash as the liquid exploded, and he was drenched with the radioactive fluid. He immediately became disoriented. His coworkers did a partial decontamination. He was taken by ambulance to a series of hospitals which refused admission. An admitting hospital was finally located, and he was installed in an evacuated emergency ward, placed on a rubber sheet and further decontaminated by sponging with wet towels. During the night, his blood pressure dropped sufficiently to warrant continuous intravenous vasopressor medication. The next morning, his left arm and the left side of his face abruptly became severely edematous. In spite of the vasopressor medication, he went into irreversible shock and died that afternoon about 22 hr after exposure. This pattern is known as the central nervous system/cardiovascular syndrome. /U-235 enriched uranium/
[Bingham, E.; Cohrssen, B.; Powell, C.H.; Patty's Toxicology Volumes 1-9 5th ed. John Wiley & Sons. New York, N.Y. (2001)., p. 2:17]**PEER REVIEWED**


the fact that he died so fast was a mercy...
and then there's this:


/CASE REPORTS/ /KIDNEY/ A small cohort of Gulf War veterans involved in friendly fire incidents where DU shells (penetrators) were used is being followed prospectively to assess the health effects from inhalation, wound contamination, and systemic absorption of retained DU metal fragments. A group of 33 soldiers was first evaluated in 1993/1994 ... They had elevated concentrations of urinary uranium, and mean urine uranium excretion was significantly higher in soldiers with retained metal fragments compared to those without fragments (4.47 vs. 0.03 ug/g creatinine). No evidence of a relationship between urine uranium and abnormal renal function could be demonstrated. In a subsequent follow-up of the same cohort, 29 of the original 33 were examined in 1997 and their results compared to 38 non-DU exposed, but Gulf War deployed soldiers. The correlation between 1994 and 1997 24-hr urinary uranium determinations was highly significant (Rsq = 0.8623) and urine uranium was again correlated with the presence of retained DU fragments. Exposed soldiers (with and without fragments) had 24-hr urinary uranium results ranging from 0.01 to 30.74 ug/g creatinine, whereas the nonexposed group's results ranged from 0.01 to 0.047 ug/g creatinine. The persistence of elevated uranium excretion suggests ongoing mobilization from a storage depot and results in chronic systemic exposure. Again, no renal abnormalities were found but neurocognitive examinations demonstrated a statistical relationship between urine uranium levels and lowered performance on computerized tests assessing performance efficiency. Elevated urinary uranium was also statistically related to a high prolactin level (> 1.6 ng/mL; p = .04). Uranium was also detected in the semen of 5 of 17 exposed veterans, but in none of 5 nonexposed veterans ... These findings ... document elevated urinary uranium excretion and small, but measurable, biochemical effects on the neuroendocrine and central nervous systems 7 yr after first exposure. /Depleted uranium/
[Bingham, E.; Cohrssen, B.; Powell, C.H.; Patty's Toxicology Volumes 1-9 5th ed. John Wiley & Sons. New York, N.Y. (2001)., p. 3:401]**PEER REVIEWED**


http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/r?dbs+hsdb:*term+*na+*rel+uranium,+ radioactive

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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