posted
"The German experiment, except to those who are its victims, is particularly interesting, and, like the offer of a strong man to let himself be vivisected, should make a great contribution to political science. For the Germans are the most gifted and most highly educated people who ever devoted the full strength of a modern state to stopping the exchange of ideas; they are the most highly organized people who ever devoted all the coercive power of government to the abolition of their own intellectual life; they are the most learned people who ever pretended to believe that the premises and the conclusion of all inquiry may be fixed by political fiat."
Walter Lippmann. (1936), The Good Society
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
You are right He had no excuse for asking a question at a public forum where people were encouraged to ask questions. F****** kill the B******!!!!! THERE WILL BE NO QUESTIONS IN THIS NATION!!!!
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
There are so many of our freedoms that seem to be eroding over time. I am amassed what the police are allowed to do these days. It appears that they can do just about anything in word of justice.
I usually go down and walk at night at the local pier. I have seen the local police constantly search young people and then let them go. Last week we were at the open market at the pier and we were eating outside at the time when police were questioning a person that was 17-20 years old. The next thing i know they have him on a bench with his legs crossed emptying his pockets, then they have him stand up and search him. After this he was told to sit down again and cross his legs while the police continue their questioning of this person. These was done by three different policeman, in front of four friends and hunderds of passer bys. I watched for about 20 minutes and walked away figuring for sure they would have to arrest him. About a hour later i came back and that same kid was with his buddies and the police were gone. I am not saying that this person might not had been a jerk to the police, but how far can the police go because of this.
Another time i say the police handcuff a guy search him then let him go. This seems to be a regular occurance these days and the police seem to have a wide margin to do just about anything they want under the laws of today.
It is really scarey how are freedoms disappear as time goes by. I really worry for our future generations.
Posts: 3875 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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posted
Q What is your reaction to the MoveOn.org ad that mocked General Petraeus as General "Betrayus," and said that he cooked the books on Iraq? And secondly, would you like to see Democrats, including presidential candidates, repudiate that ad?
THE PRESIDENT: I thought the ad was disgusting. I felt like the ad was an attack not only on General Petraeus, but on the U.S. military. And I was disappointed that not more leaders in the Democrat Party spoke out strongly against that kind of ad. And that leads me to come to this conclusion: that most Democrats are afraid of irritating a left-wing group like MoveOn.org -- or more afraid of irritating them than they are of irritating the United States military. That was a sorry deal. It's one thing to attack me; it's another thing to attack somebody like General Petraeus.
afraid?afraid?afraid?afraid?
this is what it's coming to folks... this is exaclty how our president thinks
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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posted
I was watching as he said it--couldn't believe the reporters there didn't start screaming...
ok, ya--the NBC guy had already gotten shut down when Bush refused to comment on the Israeli action in Syria...but still, as a group they should've homed in on that comment. Poorly done, imo
quote:Originally posted by glassman: I felt like the ad was an attack not only on General Petraeus, but on the U.S. military.
If one were to think like a lawyer, one could conclude that this could lead to folks like the moveon crowd being prosecuted for treason... in years to come.
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
Interesting... This article claims the student that got tased, cut in line... Might explain why the police were standing there waiting for him to finish asking multiple questions...
quote:The student, Andrew Meyer, who was well-known on campus for his practical jokes, was Tasered after jumping the queue to ask Mr Kerry a series of questions in a Florida University lecture hall on Monday.
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example. Posts: 2430 | From: CA | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I saw a news report the other day on the BBC talking about Northern Rock customers "forming queues"... I had to think about it for a minute...
Seriously though, if this guy walked past the line, right up to the mic and started asking questions, it might explain why police became involved in the situation, especially after he refused to yield when his "alloted" time was up...
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example. Posts: 2430 | From: CA | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:Moreover, one of the widely circulated videos of the incident was filmed with his own camera. As he pushed his way toward the microphone to put his questions to Senator Kerry, he handed his camera to Clarissa Jessup, a student he didn’t know, and asked her to record him.
Then, just as his diatribe was heating up, he turned to Ms. Jessup and said, “Are you taping this? Do you have this? You ready?,” according to the police report.
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example. Posts: 2430 | From: CA | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Police Taser wheelchair bound granny to death
This **** documented numerous cases where police use of Tasers resulted in the death of the individual. This, allegedly “safe” form of control is, in fact, dangerous and lethal.
When dealing with mentally disturbed individuals there is a problem. Police think that threatening someone with a Taser will get them to obey orders. That assumes a functioning rational process. If the person is irrational this threat rarely works. Instead of finding other means of dealing with the situation the trigger happy cops just Taser someone to make life easy for themselves, even if that leads to the unnecessary death of the person involved. Our previous article on numerous such killings is here.
Emily Delafied had mental problems. She was schizophrenic. She was also confined to a wheelchair, which certainly limited her mobility and the type of threat she could become. It wasn’t as if she could leap at someone and harm them. And to direct her chair she needed to use her hands. She couldn’t pursue someone easily and carry a weapon at the same time. In addition her family says her range of motion was very limited. And due to her medical condition she was on oxygen. Clearly this was a fragile woman who really couldn’t pose a real threat.
In April 2006 Emily didn’t take her medication and she had an episode. I knew a schizophrenic who periodically got the idea in his head that Jesus would heal him, and to show his faith he had to stop taking his pills. The result was always a pretty scary psychotic episode. And that is what happened to Emily.
That day she called the police saying her sister was going to hurt her. When police arrived they found Delafield in her chair holding two knives and a hammer. She would swing them at family who approached her believing they were going to hurt her. It appears from press reports that Delafield was hallucinating that she was under threat and was trying to protect herself. There is no indication that she was planning to harm herself.
Clearly the woman couldn't be reasoned with and threats would make the situation worse. No one else was under immediate threat. Family could vacate the premises quite easily. Delafield was in no position to pursue. The situation seems relatively easy. Vacate the area, keep Delafield confined and under surveillance, try to talk to her from a distance so she doesn’t feel threatened and wait.
If she was trying to harm herself then perhaps a different strategy would be necessary. If she was able to harm others then a different strategy would be necessary. If unable to do either then a little patience, until she calmed down, may have resolved the case. Police were clearly impatient. They used the Taser on the woman after “a 13-minute standoff” -- just 13 minutes. That was the entire amount of time they were willing to invest in trying to find a non-lethal way of solving this problem.
Police were impatient. One police officer used a Taser on Delafield nine times and a second officer used a Taser once, all in under three minutes. The repeated shocks combined with a heart condition to kill the woman. The medical examiner listed cause of death as a homicide.
Police Chief Robert Musco tried to justify the killing saying that the use of the Taser, ten times, “was utilized and the subject was disarmed.” True, she was disarmed, she was dead. It is very critical to remember what sort of threat this “armed” women posed. First, she was in her late 50s, not a spring chicken. Second, she was confined to a wheelchair. She wasn’t going to leap tall buildings in a single bound. She couldn’t even easily hold her weapons and operate her chair at the same time. She had limited range of motion and needed oxygen just to breath. This wasn’t Rambo but an older woman in a wheelchair with extremely limited ability to inflict harm on anyone.
Of course the police officers were cleared. They always are. The only way that bad cops go down is when they are taped committing the offense.
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Sheriff's officials defended their use of a Taser stun gun to subdue an autistic teenager who left a social services center where he was being treated.
"It was necessary," sheriff's spokesman Jim Amormino said in defense of the use of a Taser stun gun to subdue 15-year-old Taylor Karras.
He said the teen was running in and out of traffic and is lucky to be alive.
"If that were your son, would you want him Tased or hit by a car?" Amormino asked.
The teenager bolted from a social services center in Westminster on Monday and had walked 15 miles when sheriff's deputies received a call of someone running in and out of traffic on busy Newport Avenue. Sheriff's Lt. Larry Jones said a deputy fired the Taser after a second car had to swerve.
The teen was home with his parents Tuesday, uninjured and no charges were filed. But his parents said they believed deputies overreacted.
"They should have been on alert that there was a missing autistic teenager in the area," William Karras said.
Taser use by police drew national attention this week after video surfaced on the Internet of police shocking a university student in Florida who persistently questioned Sen. John Kerry during a forum and refused to yield the microphone to others. The incident generated a fierce debate about free speech, use of force and the motives of the student, a known prankster.
University of Florida President Bernie Machen said the use of the Taser, with the student yelling, "Don't Tase me, bro!" was "regretful." He requested a state probe of campus police actions and placed two officers on leave.
In Warren, Ohio, a police officer was shown Thursday on his cruiser's video jolting a woman with a Taser gun both before and after she was handcuffed. The woman was arrested Sept. 2, and the officer was placed on paid leave last week.
Patrolman Richard Kovach's report said the 38-year-old woman, who had been ordered out of a bar, kicked at a rear window and tried to climb into the front seat once she was inside the cruiser.
"I deployed a second Taser cartridge into her and the violent turbulent action stopped immediately," the report said. "I then requested a car with a cage for transport."
She was again Tasered during the transfer to the second car when she fell and was knocked unconscious by the impact, Kovach's report said. An ambulance took her to a hospital. The woman has pleaded not guilty to resisting arrest and other charges.
The woman, Heidi Gill, 38, told WYTV-TV in Youngstown that she has bruises and impaired vision from her struggle.
"I didn't think I was going to make it out of there," she told the station.
Simply because someone is hit with a Taser while handcuffed may not be against policy, said Warren Law Director Greg Hicks, citing the example of someone kicking out windows of a cruiser.
Taser stun guns fire electrically charged darts that carry 50,000 volts for several seconds, temporarily immobilizing their targets. According to Taser International Inc., about 11,000 U.S. law enforcement agencies use Taser technology.
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: What disturbance did he cause???? He asked three questions very articulately and was tackled by jack booted thugs. He didn't do the first thing that could ever be considered either disruptive or aggressive.
So... if he pushed his way to the microphone, does that count as being disruptive or aggressive?
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example. Posts: 2430 | From: CA | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
I love debates when the word "if" gets alot of play. Soooo by your anti-logic he was arrested because he pushed people around? Is there any chance you have a video of this assault he committed? Credible eyewitness reports?
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless.: I love debates when the word "if" gets alot of play. Soooo by your anti-logic he was arrested because he pushed people around? Is there any chance you have a video of this assault he committed? Credible eyewitness reports?
I love debates when the other side puts words in your mouth and then tries to blast you for it....
Uh no video, but I already cited two reports stating he "cut in line".... Guess you didn't read my earlier posts... You must have been too busy trying to prove that the men and women that protect us from the dregs of society are nothing but trigger happy jack-booted thugs...
The student was under suspicion for pushing his way to the front of the line in order to get to the mic, he brought further attention to himself by going on and on with asking a question, and then caused the police to intervene by refusing to yield after his allotted time was up.
When police attempted to detain him, he resisted, and that is why he was arrested, and when he still refused to cooperate even when police were attempting to handcuff him, he was tased...
So now what were you blathering about anti-logic?....
Posts: 2430 | From: CA | Registered: Jun 2005
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quote:The report details the events leading up to Meyer's arrest, saying that Meyer was in line to ask a question of Sen. Kerry when it was decided that no more questions would be allowed.
Meyer continued down the aisle toward Sen. Kerry angrily, according to police, saying he wanted the senator to answer his question because he had been waiting for two hours.
Though Sen. Kerry directed that Meyer be allowed to ask his question, police reported that Meyer did not ask any specific question and instead "badgered" the senator, and at one point said something about President Clinton being impeached over a sexual act.
At that point, police reported that ACCENT Director Max Tyroler turned off Meyer's microphone and asked police to escort him out of the auditorium, saying, "He had said enough," according to Officer Mallo's report.
Officers then proceeded to attempt to remove Meyer from the room, but when he resisted, they placed him on the ground and tried to handcuff him. The six officers who actually took part in holding Meyer down while he was being handcuffed reported that they were only able to get a handcuff on his right hand because he was squirming so much.
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example. Posts: 2430 | From: CA | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Kerry Condemns Heckler Arrest September 18, 2007
quote:Kerry said in a statement. "I believe I could have handled the situation without interruption, but I do not know what warnings or other exchanges transpired between the young man and the police prior to his barging to the front of the line and their intervention. I asked the police to allow me to answer the question and was in the process of responding when he was taken into custody."
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example. Posts: 2430 | From: CA | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Here is another video of the incident taken from another view....
The police even warned him they would tase him if he didn't stop resisting.. yet he continued... He is a idiot for struggling, and deserved to be tased...
If you watch this video, it is clear that he only has one hand in cuffs when he was tased, the other hand is grasping the back of a chair.....
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example. Posts: 2430 | From: CA | Registered: Jun 2005
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According to the officers, they simply asked him to come outside and speak with them...
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example. Posts: 2430 | From: CA | Registered: Jun 2005
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877.13 Educational institutions or school boards; penalty for disruption
1) It is unlawful for any person:
(a) Knowingly to disrupt or interfere with the lawful administration or functions of any educational institution, school board, or activity on school board property in this state.
(b) Knowingly to advise, counsel, or instruct any school pupil or school employee to disrupt any school or school board function, activity on school board property, or classroom.
(c) Knowingly to interfere with the attendance of any other school pupil or school employee in a school or classroom.
(d) To conspire to riot or to engage in any school campus or school function disruption or disturbance which interferes with the educational processes or with the orderly conduct of a school campus, school, or school board function or activity on school board property.
(2) This section shall apply to all educational institutions, school boards, and functions or activities on school board property; however, nothing herein shall deny public employees the opportunity to exercise their rights pursuant to part II of chapter 447.
(3) Any person who violates the provisions of this section is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.
-------------------- One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example. Posts: 2430 | From: CA | Registered: Jun 2005
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posted
Escort? Perhaps I've been using the word wrong my entire life. As I've said before. Free speech is no longer a right. It's a privilege offered to the very few.
Posts: 2965 | Registered: Aug 2005
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posted
disruption? he was asking a long question...
i for one wanted to hear Kerry's answer...
so what if he had an attitude.. that's not illegal.
you see the problem is that it's up to JUDGE and JURY to decide what disruption is, if he wasn't guilty of disruption then he's an aggravated assault VICTIM, and the person giving the order to the cops is guilty of conspiracy to commit aggravated assault.. i beleive that could be a felony..
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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