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Author Topic: The Bullies and the Bullied
T e x
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quote:
Originally posted by IWISHIHAD:
Tex, you said it the way i wish i could write it, we have both seen the same things just different versions from kids and parents. Full time job for me now, i said that a little wrong, meant full time commitment to the team, did not want to be main man and all the responsibilites by myself this time, getting a little old for that, i just wanted to help with the kids that needed the most help. You really did have a full time job, i did remember that. They wanted me to take over and run the AAU baseball program a lot of years ago, but decided not to, so i kind of know what you mean. The nice part about soccer and basketball, you can run the kids a lot more to get some of that energy out of them, baseball is a little harder to keep them as busy. Girls in general seem to have that better attention span in those younger ages. I love that pharse "the light bulb snaps on". I still think back on some of the funny stories, a few maybe not so funny at the time. I learned a big lesson one day, at the end of practice just after throwing batting practice to the kids, the parents were there to pick them up, so i told them to spend some time throwing to their kids at home, so they could get more reps at batting. For several practices after this, one player seem to be shying away from the ball, his dad asked if he could throw batting practice, i said sure, he hits the batter, he could not throw the ball, so from then on i always suggested throwing tennis balls, unless i knew the dad could throw. I always used tennis balls on the kids all thru my coaching years, except maybe 20 reps each at practice with hard balls. I had an old Dudley Pitching Machine(i do not know if i told you the story of the pitching machine) in the batting cage i set up in the back yard, and thats all i used in it, then i would throw live arm with tennis balls also. One of my friends borrowed a radar gun from the police department one day, he worked there, he was curious how fast i could throw them. I was throwing them at 82mph little league distance(or a little under) and those tennis balls can move around to. I had kids over at my house for batting practice all thru high school, and a lot of these kids had since gone on to other high schools to play. I would get those calls quite often from the kids asking me if they could come over to hit, they were in a slump or wanted more reps. It was great fun, all those years the time spent was so worth it. So many parents miss so much by not getting involved in their kids activities.

ohhhh man, that's some good stuff...I got tears in my eyes...lol...

ooohhh, ya... we got stories to share...

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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bdgee
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I've had many mathematics students and I can promise you each any every one of them understood I love the stuff.

Hell, you couldn't know as much as I do without loving it. And if you don't love the students loving it, they won't.....they won't so much as offer a glimmer of interest. You can grade them, but you won't teach them.

With deep commitement it is possible to light that flame of desire in students, too. But not if they are assured that everything comes down to a grade.

The following quote is not from R.L. Moore, it is from bdgee, but it is one he approved of: "A classroom is not a place to teach. It is a place to meet people that you teach in the hallways".

Mathematics is far too difficult a subject to learn within the time constraints of a class. It caannot be learned as a compilization of facts and techniques. It IS a contact sport. It lives.....

From Isaack Walton's [i]The Complete Angler, "Angling may be said to be so like the mathematics that it can never be fully learnt".

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Munchkin Man
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Hey Mr. Bdgee:

Here is an activity the Munchkin Man used to give to his students once a year.

The Munchkin Man begins the class period by asking a student volunteer to call out any one-digit number besides zero.

The Munchkin Man writes that one-digit number on the board.

Then the Munchkin Man asks 4 more students to take turns calling out 4 more one-digit numbers.
This time the digits CAN be zero.

The Munchkin Man writes these 4 digits on the board after the 1st one. The result is a 5-digit number that does not begin with zero.

Then the Munchkin Man pauses.

The Munchkin Man asks a student to call out another one-digit number besides zero.

The Munchkin Man writes this digit on the board after an empty space following the previous and 5th digit.

Then the Munchkin Man asks 9 more student volunteers to call out 9 more one-digit numbers.
This time the digits CAN be zero.

The Munchkin Man writes these 9 digits on the board after the 6th one. The result is a separate 10-digit number that does not begin with zero.

Can you see where this is going?

Let's see how well you know the Munchkin Man.

The Munchkin Man would then draw a long division box between the 5th and the 6th digit.

The result was a long division problem with a 5-digit divisor and a 10-digit dividend.

This was the Munchkin Man's classwork assignment for that day.

The students were also required to check their answer by multiplying the divisor by the dividend and then adding the remainder to the product.

Students were allowed to finish this assignment for homework.

Each and every single long division step had to be shown neatly and in detail.

Each and every multiplication row in the "check" had to be shown neatly and in detail as well.

This assignment was graded.

Calculators were not allowed.

This was during a bygone era when calculators were not yet allowed in the Munchkin Man's school.

What do you think of this assignment?

A lot of modern educators would say it is abusive, irrelevent, pointless, and all sorts of other things.

Some would even say it is sadistic.

The Munchkin Man says it is none of the above.

The Munchkin Man says it is an excellent exercise for the brain.

The Munchkin Man believes that the primary goal of education is to develop and strengthen the mind.

Long division problems such as the Munchkin Man just described do exactly that.

They challenge the student to think and compute with absolute precision at each and every step until the final answer is achieved.

Before the age of calculators, many of the Munchkin Man's students used to enjoy these types of assignments.

Some of them would come into the Munchkin Man's classroom with several pages full of long division, boasting and beaming proudly that they got the answer.

This is only one way that the Munchkin Man would promote the appreciation of the beauty of arithmetic for his students.

These students were proud of themselves.

The Munchkin Man was proud of these students.

The Munchkin Man was proud to be a math teacher.
_____________________

Very Sincerely,

Munchkin Man

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bdgee
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You might as well have them stack their shoes into a pyramid and claim that was class participation. It doesn't expect the students to participate other than ritually following orders and it isn't mathematics, but arithmatic.

Those students may have been proud of following orders. That is a pity.

Creativity does not issue from ritual or rote task.

Mathematics is not arithmatic.

Conformaty does not breed comprehension, it obliterates it.

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NR
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quote:
Originally posted by T e x:
btw, NR?

That *was* a good post...

Is a dynamic often shrugged off as "part of growing up," but I know it shaped my life, significantly...

Thanks Tex.

As you can see, it shaped mine as well.

--------------------
One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.

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Munchkin Man
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quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
You might as well have them stack their shoes into a pyramid and claim that was class participation. It doesn't expect the students to participate other than ritually following orders and it isn't mathematics, but arithmatic.

_____

In other words, you give little or no educational value to the classroom and homework assignment the Munchkin Man described.

The Munchkin Man views the process of solving a long division division problem as one of the most beautiful adventures a student can take.

Solving a long division problem requires a complete mastery of one's multiplication facts and subtraction algorithms.

Solving a long division problem requires an absolute precision of thought and the ability to carry out its steps in a methodical and systemic order.

Therein lies the beauty of solving a long division problem. The beauty lies in its order and precision.

Solving a long division problem to its absolute and final result is a journey.

The longer the problem, the longer is the journey.

And the more beautiful that journey is along the way.

The intrinsic worth and beauty of solving long division problems can not be measured or fully described.

In spite of the Munchkin Man's skills of verbal expression, the intrinsic worth and beauty of long division goes far beyond what the Munchkin Man is able to express in words.

The Munchkin Man is very saddened that you don't see it.

Best Wishes,

Munchkin Man

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bdgee
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You might produce mechanical rote ability, little automatons of arithmetic, but noting worthwhile, unless following detailed orders put forth by some authority in power turns you on, which I suspect may be what you do like and what you imagine thinking amounts to.

Again, I point out that arithmetic, valuable as it is, indespensible even our world, is NOT mathematics.

Don't you worry about me seeing. I do indeed see what you are doing and vigerously disapproave. Where the lack of communication you notice comes from is that you can't see. There is a wide and magnificient world out there that you simply cannot see.

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Munchkin Man
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quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
Those students may have been proud of following orders. That is a pity.

_____

To the contrary.

It is a cause for celebration.

It is a time to rejoice.

The mastery of arithmetical algorithms requires the sequential application of a series of steps.

The Munchkin Man calls them "steps."

You call them "orders."

The Munchkin Man is of the persuasion that mathematics is learned best in a linear fashion through a prescribed sequence of steps.

This means you master Step A before you go on to Step B.

This means you master Step B before you go on to
Step C.

And so on.

If a student gets stuck on Step C, you give the student additional practice with Step C.

If needed, you break down Step C into a series of smaller Step Cs.

Then when Step C is finally mastered, you go on to Step D.

But you call these "orders."

This reminds the Munchkin Man of something his 9th grade Science teacher told his class one day.
_____

"You're going to forget a lot of your Science. You're going to forget a lot of your Social Studies. You're going to forget a lot about all of your subjects. But the most important lesson you will learn in this class is how to obey and follow orders. If you can learn how to do that, then you can learn anything else."
_____

What this teacher was trying to say is that learning how to obey and follow orders is all about learning the discipline it takes to learn.

It's that simple.

Now then.

The Munchkin Man has a question for you.

What exactly is your problem with authority?

Best Wishes,

Munchkin Man

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Munchkin Man
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quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
Creativity does not issue from ritual or rote task.

_____

Creativity?

Ahem!

The Munchkin Man is a math teacher.

Not an art teacher.

The Munchkin Man's primary task is to teach his students the basics and to try to get them to master the basics.

The basics come first.

Before you can learn to think outside the box, you have to learn how to think inside the box.

Too many students don't know how to think at all.

Therefore, the place to start is inside the box.

You start with the basics.

The best way to teach the basics is through plenty of drill, repeition, and rote practice.

The Munchkin Man used to give his students lots and lots of drill, repetition, and rote practice.

The Munchkin Man used to give his students lots and lots of worksheets.

The Munchkin Man always designed and composed his own worksheets. The Munchkin Man never stooped down to using those inferior and tacky worksheets that are found in those commercial workbooks.

The Munchkin Man's worksheets were vastly superior. They had a higher level of order and design. They were better structured.

Most importantly, they had more problems to keep the students busier for longer periods of time.

Designing and composing mathematics worksheets is yet another way in which the Munchkin Man used his extraordinary literary gifts.

Indeed, it is the very fortunate student who was ever blessed with the opportunity to work on a Munchkin Man Worksheet.

Best Wishes,

Munchkin Man

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Munchkin Man
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quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
Conformaty does not breed comprehension, it obliterates it.

_____

You have regurgitated yet another myth from the liberal wing of educational thought.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

Conformity to following the essential and sequential steps to any given arithmetical algorithm or mathematical procedure is absolutely essential to the mastery of that algorighm or procedure.

Once you know how to do it and do it well, your comprehension has been achieved.

You're "there."

Doing is understanding.

The Munchkin Man believes in teaching the "how" before the "why."

Once the student learns and masters the "how", the "why" begins to fall into place.

With proper follow-up instruction, the "why" begins to open up for the student like the petals of a rose.

Contrary to what you say, conformity does not obliterate comprehension.

Conformity is an essential and necessary prerequisite for comprehension.

It is non-conformity which is a barrier to comprehension and mastery.

The Munchkin Man has spoken.

Please think on these things.

Best Wishes,

Munchkin Man

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Munchkin Man
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quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
You might produce mechanical rote ability, little automatons of arithmetic, but noting worthwhile, unless following detailed orders put forth by some authority in power turns you on, which I suspect may be what you do like and what you imagine thinking amounts to.

_____

Little automatons of arithmetic?

The lack of automaticy that American students of today display with their mathematics facts is one of the biggest causes, if not the biggest cause, of their poor showing in mathematics today.

And you say that the attainment of automaticy with respect to the mastery of basic mathematics facts is "nothing worthwhile?"

Then you go into a tangent about how such an approach is all about "authority" and "power."

Sir, your slip is showing.

Please allow the Munchkin Man to ask you again.

What exactly is your problem with authority?

Please think about this question.

Best Wishes,

Munchkin Man

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bdgee
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I don't have a problem with authority, you do.

I don't need someone to tell me what to do or what to think, you do. And then you have the gall to dictate that I should become another toady to ritual. Worse, that I should accept a toady to ritual teaching children to obey first and foremost.

I do not believe in this world or the nexr or the ones after that, you will ever develope the discipline needed to learn mathematics. It is a very rare ability. I do not doubt that you have a much deeper talent for memorization than I would ever permit, but, that isn't learning. Stick with arithmetic.

Your 9th grade science teacher was full of it. Such a restricted view of scholarshipt is an indication of the inability to see beyond what is spoon fed and there can't be anything intellectually in the spoon that isn't stale or nearly so.

You can't create new ideas following orders. Finding your pleasure in following orders points to a serious personality flaw. Certainly there are situations where "conformity" is of value, like driving on the right side of the road (assuming you are in North America.....bad idea in England), but intellectual pursuits is not one of those situations.

Teaching is a task to be aimed at the intellectual development of students, with the subject matter mearly a path to that goal. Arithmetic is a tool, nothing more. Arithhmatic proficiency is desirable, but it is not necessary and may, when taught for the teacher's comfort, be detrimental to the intellectual development of the student. The object is not to turn out a finished product, but one that isn't turned off by the need to develop new and challenging uses of the subject matter when thaat arises later in life......one that can confidently learn as the need appears.

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Munchkin Man
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quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
I do not believe in this world or the nexr or the ones after that, you will ever develope the discipline needed to learn mathematics. It is a very rare ability. I do not doubt that you have a much deeper talent for memorization than I would ever permit, but, that isn't learning. Stick with arithmetic.

_____

The Munchkin Man developed the discipline to learn mathematics a long time ago.

That's how the Munchkin Man became so supremely qualified to teach mathematics for so many years.

You say that memorization "isn't learning."

This is yet another myth which is propogated by
the liberal left wing of the educational establishment.

Memorization is a form of learning.

Memorization is a wonderful method of learning.

Memorization is an exercise and a tonic for the mind.

It gives the mind strength and endurance.

Do you know why so many students of today shock their parents and their grandparents with their ignorance of so many historical, geographical, scientific, and mathematical facts that they themselves memorized, and therefore learned, when they were in school?

It is because the liberal educationaal establishment has brainwashed many of their teachers into a belief system that "memorization is bad."

As a result, these students never had to memorize these facts.

And it is the liberal educrats who are to blame.

Memorization is a valuable and wonderful tool for learning.

Hopefully, the pendulum is beginning to shift back toward the realization of this very basic and essential truth.

The Munchkin Man has spoken.

Please think on this matter.

Best Wishes,

Munchkin Man

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Munchkin Man
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quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
You can't create new ideas following orders. Finding your pleasure in following orders points to a serious personality flaw.

_____

New ideas?

What new ideas?

Who said anything about new ideas?

The Munchkin Man is just trying to teach his students the old ideas.

Are you forgetting that the Munchkin Man was a junior high school and middle school teacher?

The Munchkin Man never needed to teach his students any new ideas.

Has the value of 7 X 8 changed over the past few centuries?

Has the forumula for finding the area of a triangle changed over the past few centuries?

Exactly what "new ideas" do you think the Munchkin Man needs to teach his students which have already not been discovered?

Mathematics is what mathematics is.

Therefore, the Munchkin Man will stick to the old ideas.

And the way you learn the old ideas is to follow the steps or "orders" which are essential for their mastery.

You say that the Munchkin Man's preference for following sequential steps, or "orders" as you call them, indicates a "serious personality flaw."

The Munchkin Man believes that your outright hostility to the use of procedural steps and protocals is a more serious personality flaw.

It is also a more dangerous one.

Let the Munchkin Man ask you again.

What is your problem with authority?

Best Wishes,

Munchkin Man

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The Bigfoot
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Math at one point was my best subject.

To the point that my school decided to jump me past pre-algebra and go straight to algebra.

A big mistake. I don't know if I missed some vital steps or if I just shut off or what but I never was capable of more than C level work after that. Even in Geometry.

Things would make sense the day I learned them and the next day I couldn't reproduce.

Weirdest thing...I was really scared of Physics and Chemistry because of my struggles in math but I rarely had a problem I couldn't work my way out of. I don't know if it was having a different perspective or what but I could do in those classes what I couldn't do in mathematics classes.

I never did go beyond basic algebra because of that. I shied away from Calculus completely. Always have wondered what went wrong there. Years of frustration that I've never found an answer for.

--------------------
No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.

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T e x
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quote:
Originally posted by The Bigfoot:
Math at one point was my best subject.

To the point that my school decided to jump me past pre-algebra and go straight to algebra.

A big mistake. I don't know if I missed some vital steps or if I just shut off or what but I never was capable of more than C level work after that. Even in Geometry.

Things would make sense the day I learned them and the next day I couldn't reproduce.

Weirdest thing...I was really scared of Physics and Chemistry because of my struggles in math but I rarely had a problem I couldn't work my way out of. I don't know if it was having a different perspective or what but I could do in those classes what I couldn't do in mathematics classes.

I never did go beyond basic algebra because of that. I shied away from Calculus completely. Always have wondered what went wrong there. Years of frustration that I've never found an answer for.

You had a Munchie for a teacher!


lol...j/k...

some are geared for "this," some geared for "that"... I could ignore (lol, "skip") almost any humanities, language, BSS, history etc and do fine on tests. BUT to keep up in algebra, geometry and so forth...well, damn--gotta go to class.

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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NR
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R.E.M. "Everybody Hurts"
(Berry/Buck/Mills/Stipe)

When the day is long and the night, the night is yours alone,
When you're sure you've had enough of this life, well hang on
Don't let yourself go, 'cause everybody cries and everybody hurts sometimes

Sometimes everything is wrong. Now it's time to sing along
When your day is night alone, (hold on, hold on)
If you feel like letting go, (hold on)
When you think you've had too much of this life, well hang on

'Cause everybody hurts. Take comfort in your friends
Everybody hurts. Don't throw your hand. Oh, no. Don't throw your hand
If you feel like you're alone, no, no, no, you are not alone

If you're on your own in this life, the days and nights are long,
When you think you've had too much of this life to hang on

Well, everybody hurts sometimes,
Everybody cries. And everybody hurts sometimes
And everybody hurts sometimes. So, hold on, hold on
Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on
Everybody hurts. You are not alone

--------------------
One is never completely useless. One can always serve as a bad example.

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The Bigfoot
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LOL TEX,

I didn't start skipping with any regularity until college. (I did my fair share and then some after that!) This was way back in the high school days.

One of my favorite groups NR.

I doubt Munchie was my teacher. Never had a teacher with TPRD. [Smile]

--------------------
No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.

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T e x
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quote:
Originally posted by The Bigfoot:
LOL TEX,

I didn't start skipping with any regularity until college. (I did my fair share and then some after that!) This was way back in the high school days.

One of my favorite groups NR.

I doubt Munchie was my teacher. Never had a teacher with TPRD. [Smile]

Big,

I had a "free pass" in high school. Lawzy!

Our Asst Principal was in charge of off-campus stuff. He knew I was to be trusted, so I had that out, but my buds had to pull tricks and dive out windows while teacher not looking, etc...


Plus, I found a set of keys (some teacher's, I guessed at the time) that let me into every room inside the entire high school, but ODDLY ENOUGH *not* the exterior doors. Guess they weren't "trusted" enough to have exterior key...

Anyway, was good...

I did screw up by skipping Latin my senior year (hot girlfriend, lol)...only "C" I can remember.


Was worth it though... [Big Grin]

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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The Bigfoot
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I bet it was.

"The Price is Right" wasn't the only reason I missed a good chunk of my morning classes in college. LOL

She left me the parting gift of a smoking habit that I could of done without but good memories all the same.

--------------------
No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues.

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Munchkin Man
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
Munchie, do you realise that when you gave all those bullies all those "fair" but harsh grades that they became frustrated and angry? Do you know who they took that anger out on? the kids that were just like you. when you go on to write all of your Tv shows? i hope you keep that in mind....

___________________

Hi Mr. Glassman,

Thank you very much for sharing some very interesting thoughts with the Munchkin Man.

Now you've got the Munchkin Man thinking as well.

Suppose......

Just suppose.......

That the Munchkin Man really was being a bully during all that time he taught those students.

If this was the case, it wasn't really intentional.

It was all happening on an unconscious level.

In any event, that wouldn't excuse the Munchkin Man.

This means the Munchkin Man would still have a karmic debt to pay.

How does the Munchkin Man go about doing that?

One idea would be for the Munchkin Man to visit the jail in the city where the Munchkin Man used to teach.

This is where many of the Munchkin Man's former students now live.

Within seconds after beginning his tour, many of them would start cursing at the Munchkin Man.

Some of them would start spitting on the Munchkin Man.

Even worse, others would throw icky nasty things at the Munchkin Man.

What if the Munchkin Man were to take this tour once a week for an entire year?

Would that settle the Munchkin Man's karmic debt?

Somehow, the Munchkin Man doesn't think so.

Maybe the Munchkin Man is being too hard on himself.

Maybe the Munchkin Man wasn't really being a bully after all.

Maybe the Munchkin Man was just being the type of teacher he was supposed to be.

For the Munchkin Man still believes in all of his teaching philosophies described in this thread with all his heart and all his soul.

Thanks again for a very thought provoking post.

Good luck to you.

Best Wishes,

Munchkin Man

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rimasco
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Maybe the Munchkin Man should purchase himself a whaling slicker before he walks the green mile again.

http://www.nextag.com/rain-slicker/search-html [Eek!]

--------------------
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication"

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glassman
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munchie? you wanna pay karmic debt? go to the local salvation army soup kitchen and slice onions...

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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OK, Munchie, i read thru the thread.

i have to make some comments here:

A) you like order, it makes you feel in control of SOMETHING in a world that really is chaos..

B) methematics is a language, arithmetic is the grammar... you taught grammar to kids who didn't have ANYTHING TO SAY... [Roll Eyes]

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bdgee
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He taught grammer to kids and refused to allow them to say anythig at all, just obey and be subserviant.

Mathematicsis not a test of memory and endurance and data storaage.

Mathematics is an art.

Before you agree, disagree, or object, consider that a blind man cannot see the Mona Lisa to like or dislike or appreciate it or decide it is not good. It isn't his fault, but it is a fact. And his inability to appreciate the beauty of Leanardo's masterpiece does not make the portrait be not art.

The inability to recognize a thing has or hasn't beauty does not make it not art , just inaccessable to the person that can't judge it.

I have always wondered how much more beauty we who are trapped without his actual language to see with might see in Omar's Rubaiyat had we that means of seeing. (Omar, in his Rubaiyat, was not actually talking of lovers and drinking and celebration, which is the more common perception, but of his students and their learning and mathematics. He was, for those of you not already informed, a teacher and professor of mathematics.)

Have you ever wondered what a man or woman, born deaf and still deaf thinks we mean when we say such as "Beethoven wrote beautiful music"?

Do you suppose a mathematician might wonder what a normal non-mathematician might think is meant when one mathematician complements another by saying, "That was a beautiful result you found"?

From H. S. Wall's Creative Mathematics (1966, I believe), "The mathematician is an artist whose medium is the mind and whose creations are ideas."

In 1945 issure of the newspaper of the Illinios Institute of Technology, Wall wrote, with respect to the teaching of mathemtics, "....the fault lies in the prevalent idea that mathematics is a kit of tools all arranged in little packages. ... Rather than being a tool subject, I believe Mathematics is an art - the purest form of art, in which the mind is the instrument of expression. This is the art which takes chaos and builds from it magnificient structure and reason."

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Munchkin Man
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quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
OK, Munchie, i read thru the thread.

i have to make some comments here:

A) you like order, it makes you feel in control of SOMETHING in a world that really is chaos..

B) methematics is a language, arithmetic is the grammar... you taught grammar to kids who didn't have ANYTHING TO SAY... [Roll Eyes]

_________

Hi Mr. Glassman,

Thank you very much for sharing your latest thoughts with the Munchkin Man.

In regard to (A), the Munchkin Man has no argument there. The Munchkin Man has always seen beauty in order and precision.

This is what makes the world so beautiful. It is bound by mathematical and physical laws.

It is the human population on the planet which causes all the chaos.

Mathematics is about order and precision, first and foremost. The "art" that Mr. Bdgee talks about is an application of mathematics that can come later. But the basics come first.

In regard to (B), your comment reminds the Munchkin Man of the old adage:

"Every class is an English class."

This was true in the Munchkin Man's mathematics classes.

Correct grammar and spelling were essential for success in all of the Munchkin Man's mathematics classes.

Suppose the Munchkin Man asked a student to write the following number in words on a test:

4,044

And the student wrote:

"Four thousand fourty-four."

How many mistakes do you see?

There are two.

First, the student forgot to include the comma.

Second, the student misspelled the word "forty" as "fourty." Although the number "4" is spelled as "four", the letter "u" is dropped when you spell "40" as "forty."

This is one of the most commonly misspelled math number words today and yesterday alike.

How much credit would the Munchkin Man give the student for writing and spelling the number 4,044 in the manner illustrated above?

None.

The Munchkin Man would count it completely wrong.

After all, there is no listing of a number "fourty" in the Munchkin Man's dictionary.

The Munchkin Man cannot give credit for something that does not exist.

The Munchkin Man was a stickler for grammar and spelling.

The Munchkin Man was proud of it.

Thanks again for sharing your latest thoughts.

Good luck to you.

Best Wishes,

Munchkin Man

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Munchkin Man
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quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
He taught grammer to kids and refused to allow them to say anythig at all, just obey and be subserviant.

Mathematicsis not a test of memory and endurance and data storaage.

Mathematics is an art.


_____

Dear Mr. Bdgee:

The Munchkin Man has counted a total of three misspelled words alone in your brief statements quoted above.

Perhaps, your command of the English language would have derived from benefit from being enrolled in one of the Munchkin Man's mathematics classes.

When it comes to your philosophy and the Munchkin Man's philosophy in regard to what mathematics is and how it should be taught, you and the Munchkin Man not only come from different planets. You and the Munchkin Man come from different galaxies.

You teach mathematics like the Democrats think.

The Munchkin Man teaches mathematics like the Republicans think.

The Munchkin Man can see a place for your approach in a graduate level college mathematics course.

However, the class you teach in any college or university of intellectual integrity would almost be certain to have to be of an elective status, instead of one which focused upon conventional and mainstream mathematics.

However, your approach would fall flat in an inner city middle school or junior high school setting where the Munchkin Man used to teach.

Many public schools in a growing number of states are becoming dominated by the high stakes testing movement. Test scores in these states have become the "bottom line" for any given school's accountability and performance.

This does not allow for a whole lot of room for the "art" you speak of. Mastering the state standards comes first.

The Munchkin Man fully embraces the high stakes testing movement.

This gives the Munchkin Man more proofreading projects with mathematics workbooks which are chock full of practice multiple-choice mathematics problems which were spawned by their state standards.

Speaking of art, the Munchkin Man regards the writing and the construction of a multiple-choice mathematics problem as an art.

Writing and composing a multiple-choice mathematics problem is like builiding a piece of sculpture. That's what it feels like to the Munchkin Man.

The Munchkin Man also loves to proofread a poorly written and designed multiple-choice problem and reshape it completely from scratch until it is a magnificant work of art.

So you see, Mr. Bdgee.

The Munchkin Man really does see art in mathematics.

You and the Munchkin Man see different types of art in mathematics.

The Munchkin Man has spoken.

Please think on these things.

Best Wishes,

Munchkin Man

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T e x
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quote:
It is the human population on the planet which causes all the chaos.
de dam bipeds! lol...

btw, mr. precision, look up restrictive/nonrestrictive re: which/that, comma usage. Wouldn't normally mention that, but I do recall your foray into book editing... [Roll Eyes]

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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Munchkin Man
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Dear Mr. Bdgee,

In an effort to try to convert you more to the Munchkin Man's way of thinking, the Munchkin Man has compiled a reading list for you.

Here is your required reading link list:
_______________

http://www.csun.edu/~vcmth00m/bshm.html

http://www.csun.edu/~vcmth00m/AHistory.html

If you read nothing else, please read the two articles listed above.

The Munchkin Man guarantees that you will learn something.

The Munchkin Man shall now continue with his list:

http://www.city-journal.org/html/eon_3_7_03mc.html

http://www.mathematicallycorrect.com/wbishop.htm

The following article is an excellent defense of the tried and true "lecture" method of teaching mathematics from the Carnegie Foundation For The Advancement Of Teaching:

http://www.carnegiefoundation.org/change/sub.asp?key=98&subkey=2105&printable=tr ue

The following two articles provide excellent defenses on the benefits and virtues of the use of memorization for learning mathematics:

http://www.quickreckoning.com/math_research.htm

http://www.math.rochester.edu/people/faculty/rarm/memory.html
______________________

The Munchkin Man could go on and on.

However, the Munchkin Man will stop here at this time.

The Munchkin Man does not want to overload you intellectually with too many scholarly articles at one time.

Please take your time to read these articles and think about what they have to say.

You're welcome.

Best Wishes,

Munchkin Man

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Munchkin Man
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quote:
Originally posted by T e x:
quote:
It is the human population on the planet which causes all the chaos.
de dam bipeds! lol...

btw, mr. precision, look up restrictive/nonrestrictive re: which/that, comma usage. Wouldn't normally mention that, but I do recall your foray into book editing... [Roll Eyes]

_____

Greetings Tex:

The Munchkin Man would like to thank you for calling his attention to the sentence the Munchkin Man wrote and the grammatical issue you raised.

The Munchkin Man has determined that you have brought up a legitimate grammatical issue and that what you are trying to convey to the Munchkin Man is correct.

The Munchkin Man is always grateful whenever somebody points out a grammatical error he has committed.

The Munchkin Man has never claimed to be the epitome of perfection.

The Munchkin Man merely strives for perfection.

By the way, the Munchkin Man just completed a textbook editing project yesterday.

Thanks again!

Best Wishes,

Munchkin Man

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T e x
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Boy howdy! can't imagine the production editor's take on your third-person responses... not to mention your not knowing something so basic as which, that usage...

this editing project? online, or red-pencil?

(btw, I didn't "try to convey": you needed to be told, and I told--you really should drop that passive-aggressive chit)

anyhow, you're welcome...glad to be of service

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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bdgee
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After formal eduction that included a significant amount of graduate work in the English Departmentt of a very large University, much of which was devoted to the editing of newly written materials, among my other professional experience are a number of years serving as a writer and editor. The page count of those publications reaches way way into the thousands, without touching on my personal publiched work in mathematics, the sciences, and engineering. I really doubt that I need need the assistance or correction of a delusional looser that can't handle tenses appropriately, let alone writing styles in general, and cannot manage the rather simple task of normal punctuation without resort to a set of "gramer rules" that are guaranteed to be often result in logical falacy and discord from literary custom.

I cannot possibly believe you could actually imagine you have the ability to "overload (me) intellectually with too many scholarly articles at one time" (but I doubt the reverse would be terribly difficult), but simply scanning for the tenor of the links you provide tells me I have swum through that excuse for responsible instruction before. I won't wade in that cess pool again.

You amount to nothing more than a pedagogical bully striving to make unimaginative automatons of captured minds, while, from the time one of them is trapped in your clutches, you serves as an object of fear and disgust for those young minds and a horrible detriment for the hope of any one of those students ever becoming proficient in mathematics (and probably, as a result of exposure to your rigidity and bullying, ever locked out of practical OR profitable agility in any intellectual endeavor).

Again, what you claim to do is not mathematics or its teaching and instruction, which are a topics you certainly can't handle or deal with.

What you are is a sociological illness with an ego that thrives on the forced subjugation of inexperienced innocent intellect.

Certainly you have a right to whatever opinion you have and I respect that right fundamentally, but that right does not confer on you the RIGHT, or envne the PRIVILEGE, to restrice, by indoctrination, the development of opinions and thought in an innocent mind.

(As an aside, I thought I had read every published work of Joseph Conrad many years back, then reread all of those again later. Then, yesterday, I stopped at a garage sale in the neighborhood [I try to always do so in my neighborhood, not to buy, but to get to know and get to communicate with my neighbors] and found a book by Conrad I don't remember ever seeing before. I bought it. I am thrilled and excited with my find and hoping it isn't a title that has simply slipped my memory. Once before, I had a similar find and was able to provide a novel that many had thought was lost somewhere in history to friends in the English Department of two universities and it became foder resulting in at least two masters theses and one Ph.D dissertation in English literature. Scholarship is not bounded by the confines of single disciplines.)

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glassman
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Many public schools in a growing number of states are becoming dominated by the high stakes testing movement. Test scores in these states have become the "bottom line" for any given school's accountability and performance.

This does not allow for a whole lot of room for the "art" you speak of. Mastering the state standards comes first.


i can assure you that spelling and grammar and rules are not the foundation of thought development....
if you want to raise kids to be all they can be? you have to bring them INTO the process. whatever that process is?

how did Einstein do in school? it's a joke..

does Einsteins BASIC work seem complicated once it is explained by someone who does understand it? not at all...

but if Einstein had been willing to allow himself to molded by teachers that taught in the way that you did MM? we would still be living in a Newtonian Universe.

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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bdgee
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Worse, glass...

If that approach were always required, as MM wants, we would not have the works of Kepler, Galilio, Newton, Kanter, Hilbert, or Descartes, to name just a few, and we would be stuck in a flat world with the stars, the sun, and the planets presessing the Earth.

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andrew
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All this is giving me a headache........ [Big Grin]

In college, I made a C in Algebra and A C in English......SO the hell what. I dont think either one of them is an art....I found them both to be a pain in the ass at the eime.

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