posted
July 6, 2006 -- SUDDENLY, it looks as if Hillary Clinton is running scared over 2008. A batch of Hillaryland moves over the past few weeks suggests a nervous- Nellie president wannabe rather than a confident Democratic front-runner. She hired a lefty ****ger and cozied up to anti-war activists by pledging to desert pal Sen. Joe Lieberman (D-Conn.) if he loses a primary over Iraq and runs as an independent.
To boot, hubby Bill Clinton went out to court activists in the first-test states of Iowa and New Hampshire by vowing that his wife supports their favored positions.
The most bizarre move was having her pollster, Mark Penn, and longtime Clintonite James Carville write a defensive-sounding Washington Post weekend op-ed piece insisting “she can win” in 2008.
The minute Hillaryland feels a need to insist that she can win, her partisans have admitted it’s a debatable - and weak - point for the candidate, who’s supposed to have a lock on the nomination.
Why the sudden defensiveness?
Democratic operatives say the sea change is due to the June poll in the 2008 first-test state of Iowa, which showed Clinton trailing former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards.
“It’s the first poll anywhere in the country that hasn’t shown Hillary Clinton as the leader - and it’s in one of the most important places,” says a Dem strategist who’s neutral for 2008. “She’s supposed to be the front-runner, but she’s in an uncomfortable position with liberal activists over Iraq, and she’s responding with some unfortunate zigs and zags.”
The Des Moines Register poll in Iowa, where antiwar activists are strong, had Edwards at 30 percent, Clinton at 26 , 2004 Democratic nominee Sen. John Kerry with 12, and Iowa Gov. Tom Vilsack at 10.
A Clinton fan insists the real message is how badly Kerry did after winning Iowa in 2000 - still, if Clinton loses Iowa, her image of inevitability would be shattered and her campaign could tank.
“The Iowa poll had a big impact because the assumption was that she can’t be stopped for the nomination, but maybe can’t win the general election. Now, the talk is maybe she’s beatable in Iowa,” says another Dem strategist.
“It’s not good for her, because that Iowa poll basically quantified what a lot of people were whispering. That’s why her people felt such a need to do pushback with the op-ed.”
deborah.orin*nypost.com
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posted
Questions for democrats on here. a)What strategy concerning Iraq would YOUR idea of the perfect Dem candidate for president endorse to get the nomination? b)What strategy concerning Iraq do you feel would win the democrat the presidency?
No right or wrong answer. I attached the above article, from the NY Post, to underscore the tricky line Hillary is straddling.
Repubs can weigh in too but I would rather this not turn into a cat fight. Just curious as to what democrats are looking for.
-------------------- Thanks Matto. Thanks Juice. Posts: 2945 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2006
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however, nyuk nyuk, I suspect my original position might have some appeal: extremely lowered risk to our side...without "losing face" of just up and leaving...
Having toppled the statues, I would've pulled out to whatever's safe militarily speaking, and issued to the populace (flyers, radio, etc): "Do not approach our perimeter. No kids on bikes, no old folk with bundles of sticks, nada. If you get *this* close, you get killed. Period.
Meanwhile, we are watching. If the bad guys take over again? We come back. Get it together...
Respectfully, Uncle Sam"
* or sumpin very much like that--I'm not "quick" *
Ideal candidate wouldn't talk about who's right/who's wrong with going to war. Ideal candidate would say...
The past is coulda, woulda, shoulda. That's over. Now it's time to focus on how to stabalize the country and get our boys and girls back home.
Iraq strategy...let the Iraqi gov do it's work. Pull troops back to our encampments only using them for special "assistance" missions with Iraqi national guard and to protect American contractors working to fully restore services in the country.
That would win Bigfoots vote. On that issue anyway.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
Before there was Chalabi in Iraq, there was his counterpart in Iran. Chaney was deep into Iran/Contra too. Prior to Iran/Contra, Chaney was a man raising a family on a Federal pay check. After Iran/Contra, Chaney was worth tens of millions.
"many were..." (Iraqi's were waiting for US with open arms.....), says the voice of the RNC. But we have no real evidence of that, only announcements from the RNC and the Administration and those that dutifully regurgitate that pablum. All independent reports tell a different tale. All actual physical and historical results "shout" a different tale.
Bigfoot at least has an honest and realistic view of the mess.
Admit the following:
1) We never should have invaded Iraq in the first place. We went in on the basis of falshoods and failure to properly handle diplomacy. (Sorry, republicans, but it is time you started accepting the truth instead of covering lies with more lies.)
2) Staying in Iraq is not conducive to the health and future of the U.S. (Sorry again republicans, but your "stay the course" nonsense isn't doing any good and is making the whole world's condidtion far more dangerous. Get off the Party line and think about the welfare of the Nation!)
3) As a result of both 1) and 2), we need to get out of the Iraqis' world and refusing to do so only further antagonizes the Iraqis. (And what's more, each 2 days we remain in Iraq squanders more of our national treasury than all of the graft and corruption and fraud that resulted for the mishandling of the hurricanes last year put together.)
We need out. The world both wants and needs us out. We can't (being the reason Iraq is about to turn into another Islamic state if we do) leave it all at once. Thus, we pull back, reorganize and watch the reorganization of the Iraq, of, by, and for the Iraqis (democracy must be a do it yourself proposition, you see), and respectfully accept that it isn't our place (or anyone elses place) to force our will upon another culture if that culture imposes no threat to ours.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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posted
Sorry.. Tex needs cuddle time.. Tex you were saying train kids to be soldiers? Seems kind of like a draft.. Volunteer service works so much better in the long run. I think maybe what you were getting at was encouraging ordinary Iraqis to police themselves? Seems the average Iraqi is still caged with fear at this point.. not sure how we can get them past that... not sure we can
-------------------- Spend word for word with me and I shall make your wit bankrupt Posts: 977 | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:We need out. The world both wants and needs us out. We can't (being the reason Iraq is about to turn into another Islamic state if we do) leave it all at once. Thus, we pull back, reorganize and watch the reorganization of the Iraq, of, by, and for the Iraqis (democracy must be a do it yourself proposition, you see), and respectfully accept that it isn't our place (or anyone elses place) to force our will upon another culture if that culture imposes no threat to ours.
Ummm.. bdgee I hate to get in the way of what you think is a brilliant and original thought... but That was the plan all along... Sorry for interupting.. please continue telling me I'm a party line republican.
-------------------- Spend word for word with me and I shall make your wit bankrupt Posts: 977 | Registered: Jun 2006
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quote:Originally posted by Relentless Despot: Sorry.. Tex needs cuddle time.. Tex you were saying train kids to be soldiers? Seems kind of like a draft.. Volunteer service works so much better in the long run. I think maybe what you were getting at was encouraging ordinary Iraqis to police themselves? Seems the average Iraqi is still caged with fear at this point.. not sure how we can get them past that... not sure we can
no spooning...lol
"encouraging" v "fear"
yeah, nevermind--hate for anybody to have to deal with fear. Just not human...
posted
LOLOL they have to do it themselves.. we can fight for them all we want.. but that won't at any point embolden them... Pretty much a no win situation untill we leave... long after we leave really.
-------------------- Spend word for word with me and I shall make your wit bankrupt Posts: 977 | Registered: Jun 2006
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posted
Any Democratic Candidate who gets himself/herself drawn into the debate of whether we should have gone to war in Iraq will lose. It is no longer the time to debate what is past, let history be the judge of that. The candidate whether Democrat, Republican or independant that would get my vote, would be the one who addresses reality.
The reality is that we are there. We have caused what has transpired. Our bombs destroyed the infrastructure and a way of life. The Iraqi people need to rebuild according to their culture. We need to put all our efforts into training their military and police to handle their own affairs. I know this is what the plan was but at this point, I don't see it being implemented properly. One thing that many forget is that Iraqis no longer have the military structure in place. It's being built from the ground up. Our military is strong because it's had decades to build up leadership. There is a chain of command. Battle tested NCO's who take the trained but inexperienced and bring them along. It's impossible to form and Army capable of defending itself in a couple years. Without proper leadership recruits will disband and run at the first test they face. We have already seen that happen. Remember when new Iraqi recruits were told that they were being sent to a hot zone? They yelled torn off their uniforms and left.
We need to provide a more intense and longer training period. A 6 month boot camp instead of a six week boot camp. Shortcuts will only mean that our presence will be required for a longer instead of a shorter period of time.
The candidate needs to be honest with America and state that we are stuck there for another 4 years and will need to be there as advisors for the immediate future. That MORE rescoures need to be utilized to train the new recruits which will ultimately allow us to leave Iraq. Come clean with the fact that there is no easy solution.
Just my take for what it is worth. By the way I do have relatives serving in Iraq and would love to have them home tommorrow.
Wally
Posts: 3255 | From: Los Angeles California | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Interesting ideas guys. It will be interesting to see how they handle it. If HIllary is any sign it looks like the libs are gonna swing things way over to the left this time. She's starting to list to the left in a not so subtle manner. Course candidates have to play to the wings of their party to get nominated. But it looked to me until now Hillary was trying to stay as close to center as possible figuring she had the nomination sewn up.
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Many say she has the Nomination sewed up, I respectfully disagree. More than anything I believe the Dem's need a winner and will go with whoever has the best chance of winning a national election against the REP's. I just don't believe Hillary stands a chance in a 2 way race for president. The only way she would win is if a third party candidate ran that would take votes from the Rep's. Not sure that this country is ready to elect a woman President and if they were, it would have to be someone with minimal baggage. There's a UHual following her along to carry the baggage. It doesn't matter whether the baggage is warranted or not it's still there.
Wally
Posts: 3255 | From: Los Angeles California | Registered: Jan 2006
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posted
Agreed Wally. I can't stand the woman. Corse I'm a repub. One poll I saw showed her losing to Mcaine 47-40, not sure what margin of error was. Another said 62% of dems could find nothing wrong with her and 50% of repubs could find nothing positive about her. One thing about it, she'll get out the republican vote.
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posted
I hope McCain runs, or Giuliani. Hilary, no chance, unless the dems rig an election for a change.
Posts: 1235 | From: Anacortes, WA | Registered: Apr 2005
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quote:Originally posted by T e x: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Relentless Despot: Sorry.. Tex needs cuddle time.. Tex you were saying train kids to be soldiers? Seems kind of like a draft.. Volunteer service works so much better in the long run. I think maybe what you were getting at was encouraging ordinary Iraqis to police themselves? Seems the average Iraqi is still caged with fear at this point.. not sure how we can get them past that... not sure we can
no spooning...lol
"encouraging" v "fear"
yeah, nevermind--hate for anybody to have to deal with fear. Just not human...
The draft brings in a cross cut of men..To much of one thing is no good in any endeaver..Some very strong warriors came from our draft system, we would not of had them without the draft....
Men you least expect to step up to the plate and sacrifice their lives for another, is why we have the Congressional Medal of Honor.
Human beings without fear? utter nonsense and poppycock talk....Fear is a basic motivator in humans. What? everybody running around doing the happy dance! geez, what a boring World that would be.
Posts: 10729 | From: oregon | Registered: Feb 2005
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quote:Originally posted by T e x: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Relentless Despot: Sorry.. Tex needs cuddle time.. Tex you were saying train kids to be soldiers? Seems kind of like a draft.. Volunteer service works so much better in the long run. I think maybe what you were getting at was encouraging ordinary Iraqis to police themselves? Seems the average Iraqi is still caged with fear at this point.. not sure how we can get them past that... not sure we can
no spooning...lol
"encouraging" v "fear"
yeah, nevermind--hate for anybody to have to deal with fear. Just not human...
The draft brings in a cross cut of men..To much of one thing is no good in any endeaver..Some very strong warriors came from our draft system, we would not of had them without the draft....
Men you least expect to step up to the plate and sacrifice their lives for another, is why we have the Congressional Medal of Honor.
Human beings without fear? utter nonsense and poppycock talk....Fear is a basic motivator in humans. What? everybody running around doing the happy dance! geez, what a boring World that would be.
FEAR? I have no fear, when I'm sitting in front of my computer.
Posts: 3255 | From: Los Angeles California | Registered: Jan 2006
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by T e x: [QUOTE]Originally posted by Relentless Despot: Sorry.. Tex needs cuddle time.. Tex you were saying train kids to be soldiers? Seems kind of like a draft.. Volunteer service works so much better in the long run. I think maybe what you were getting at was encouraging ordinary Iraqis to police themselves? Seems the average Iraqi is still caged with fear at this point.. not sure how we can get them past that... not sure we can
no spooning...lol
"encouraging" v "fear"
yeah, nevermind--hate for anybody to have to deal with fear. Just not human...
The draft brings in a cross cut of men..To much of one thing is no good in any endeaver..Some very strong warriors came from our draft system, we would not of had them without the draft....
Men you least expect to step up to the plate and sacrifice their lives for another, is why we have the Congressional Medal of Honor.
Human beings without fear? utter nonsense and poppycock talk....Fear is a basic motivator in humans. What? everybody running around doing the happy dance! geez, what a boring World that would be.
posted
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Ameritrades breaking news is handy too.
Can't forget the Bose, best part of any traders system....me listens to a lot of classical during trading hrs...Bolero is great when a stock is running!
Posts: 10729 | From: oregon | Registered: Feb 2005
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posted
If McCain runs DEM's are going to have a hard time of it. Too centrist and respected to bash effectively. Not that I like that type of campaign.
I don't think Hillary is going to get the nomination. She's popular right now because she hasn't had a lot of national coverage. I think that'll fade once she really has to sell America on an agenda. I don't think she can do it.
If he's smart about it Edwards could get the nod and give McCain a good run. But he better get a better platform than he had last time around.
I’ll be interested to see if Clark can pull together a good platform too.
Kerry had his chance and blew it. Didn't know when a point was made and when he was overdoing it. He overdid it and he is overdone.
It'll be interesting but I gotta say I like the odds whoever takes it. Cause the odds are stacked that it won't be a Bush or Bush crony.
-------------------- No longer eligible for government service due to lack of tax issues. Posts: 5178 | From: Up North | Registered: Dec 2005
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posted
I think there is so much time that we still may see a candidate from both sides that comes out of nowhere. I'm not sure Republicans would want McCain as their candidate. He is very independant and doesn't really play well to the very conservative portion of the party. I keep hearing Guiliani in the background.
On the Dem's side I think Kerry and Gore are done. Edwards, Clark and more than likely a new face will jump in. Personally I don't see one Candidate from either party that creates a sense of coonfidence in constituents on a national basis. I think it will be interesting if nothing else.
Wally
Posts: 3255 | From: Los Angeles California | Registered: Jan 2006
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