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A lot of people feel that we never should have hepled Chrysler get the laons they needed to save themselves. How do folks feel about GM ? The only ones that seem to dislike them are there customers.
Posts: 6008 | From: phoenix az | Registered: Mar 2005
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People talk lots of trash about GM. All I know is, nomatter what people say, GM will be with us for the next 100 years and beyond. GM is one powerhouse nobody can bring down. Just watch.
-------------------- "NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF THE U.S./CHINA CONNECTION"
quote:Originally posted by glassman: we are going socialist (in fact) i'm afraid DQR, the problem is too big to ignore...
friggin Chrysler isn't even an american company anymore... we bailed 'em out so the germans could take over...
no $hit glass... I've been telling you this for years... we are going socialist only as a stop on our way to communism... Why do you think I've been calling you a commie for two years now? edit: other than the humor factor
-------------------- Spend Word For Word With Me And I Shall Make Your Wit Bankrupt. Posts: 1326 | From: Here | Registered: Oct 2005
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Well I have only bought one gm product in my life and to say the least as long as there are other choices out there it will be my last. Of course the dealer is not the company GM he is the dealer and it was him I was not happy with.
Posts: 6008 | From: phoenix az | Registered: Mar 2005
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GM may file for bankruptcy but they will no go under. they will just get new financing and go on. current shareholders will be the biggest losers if that happens. 20 or 30k people will lose their jobs. nothing we can do about that.
Posts: 1045 | From: novato,ca,usa | Registered: Aug 2003
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I use to love General Motors. These days, I'm not too crazy about their new line of vehicles except for their pick-up trucks. I own a nearly new 1986 Chevy El Camino SS with 37,000 original miles on which I bought from a 90 year old man in Oklahoma. These "classic" GM vehicles are ones I'd cherish for the rest of my life. If GM only brought back the Camaros and the El Caminos and have them redesigned to match more of what Ford is doing with their new Mustangs, I think GM would stand a chance. Look at what they did to the Impala and the Malibu! Make them look like how they were before, not F up their original design!
-------------------- "NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF THE U.S./CHINA CONNECTION"
posted
DWE you are most likley right GM is doing the same thing that Chrysler did putting money eles where instead of automotive R and D thats what really makes them money and sent them to the top
Posts: 6008 | From: phoenix az | Registered: Mar 2005
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GM is moving to China... GM plans to double car production in China By Gong Zhengzheng (China Daily) Updated: 2004-06-08 08:55
Leading global automaker General Motors (GM) yesterday unveiled plans to more than double its production capacity in China over the next three years.
GM said it will invest more than US$3 billion in its China-based joint ventures, with the cash mainly coming from profits generated by these ventures, lifting its total investment in China to US$5 billion.
Phil Murtaugh, head of GM's China operation, said the investment will include new production capacity, research and development facilities, new products and auto financing business.
Murtaugh said this will increase GM's annual production capacity to nearly 1.3 million vehicles by 2007 from the current 530,000 units
i guess you can only make real money in a communist country??????
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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i think it's only because they know they make more money there... i'm not a commie DQR you know that... it's all about level playing fields... or maybe i should say lack thereof.... they'll be able to ship 'em here and still make more money... just like the parts... car parts from Mexico are dirt cheap and a lot of 'em? are no good right outa the box
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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I know you're not a commie glass... but that sure doesn't take the fun out of calling you one. Seriously though even if GM does move overseas America will cope with the immediate job losses. Sure there will be alot of whining and complaining but the truth is this country is moving it's ecenomic center from labour to management anyways. Same people were going crazy when there was a move from farming to manufacturing... same thing, no biggie.
-------------------- Spend Word For Word With Me And I Shall Make Your Wit Bankrupt. Posts: 1326 | From: Here | Registered: Oct 2005
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yeah, but a service economy doesn't really show growth, and in the end? what are we gonna manage? we aren't gonna manage China from here...any more than we'll be able to manage the Iraqis from here... we don't have the leverage... and our debt is going to be the only leverage, they'll have to figure out a way to let us pay pay them back....
the corps like GM and Wal-mart go to China, train the chinese in how to do the biz, and then? bam, the chinese say OK thanx, you can leave now, or just buy the company with all that cash flowing into China and out of America ( this is the historic chinese attitude, absorb the invading culture, only they have even more control now than they did in the past)...... and there is nothing to stop them.... why? so a few, and i mean a very few, americans can get really really rich....
heck, how many americans are well-invested in Japan? not many...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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Yeah I see your point, but manufacturing as an industry is limited in it's growth as far as employing Americans. It's gonna be kinda hard to limit the globalization of our economy... We can't just pull away from the table. If keeping companies here in America is the main concern then make it more appealing to stay here through lowered taxes or even a totally different tax system. And you are right about China absorbing conquers... they do it well. I've talked to many in China and they are very proud of that fact... I can understand why.
-------------------- Spend Word For Word With Me And I Shall Make Your Wit Bankrupt. Posts: 1326 | From: Here | Registered: Oct 2005
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China will always be the world leader for manufacturing and trade of ANYTHING and EVERYTHING and has been for quite some time now. The ENTIRE WORLD relies on CHINA for EVERY G-DAMN THING and it's NOT going to change. That's why I take interest in investing in U.S. Companies/Corporations that do big business with CHINA because CHINA is going to make me rich!
-------------------- "NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF THE U.S./CHINA CONNECTION"
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China is an interesting country when it comes to manufacturing. They have no control over there pollution, they have no efficiency in using fuel, major cities are facing major pollution problems, there manufacturing level increases by leaps and bounds. Automobile ownership increases at a enormous rate, when will all this catch up with them? I say within 5-10 years they will be facing major changes in the way they do things and they to will start to face all the increase costs in manufacturing, like us. China also exports a lot of perishable food items to the US. at a cheap price, which has driven growers out of business in the last 5 years. But now many of the importers of these goods, are finding out that these goods can get hung up in customs and can end up a total loss. Many of these food products have to be X- rayed to make sure they don't have glass and other small objects in them before they go to our markets. This is adding more costs to these cheap goods. I think we need more import taxes on these goods to level the playing field, yet I do not think it will happen because people want cheap goods. Once we lose many of these large growers and manufacturers in the U.S. it is unlikely that new ones will jump in very quickly, if needed.
Posts: 3875 | From: ca. | Registered: Jul 2005
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If Communism remains in China, cheap labor will continue, and China will keep making money because the U.S. is willing to pay the lower prices to China to profit off Americans. It's sounds F#CKED up but it's true and it's happening right now. It's all business..... Nothing more.
-------------------- "NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF THE U.S./CHINA CONNECTION"
posted
Actually, China isn't bothering with being communist. That doesn't make them all good guys or all bad guys, but it ought to be noticed.
What China is is the 500 pound bear and he will sleep where ever he wants, no matter the political tags that surround him.
The vastness of China's eventual economic impact on the worlds economy will set the course for the rest of the world, regardless of politics. We, the USA, need to get over the notion that we can ever hope to push an economically savy China around and find a way to not have to compete directly with them.
And the focus should be...will be....energy. While we still are miles ahead scientifically, we need to make ourselves energy indepent via solar, wind, etc. Otherwise, we will be devoured, not because China is communist, but because a hungry animal must eat.
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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You cannot grow or substane an ecomony without manufacturing jobs. Bottom line. And ours is going overseas so fast, no one seems to notice. That is until it stops.
Posts: 172 | Registered: Oct 2003
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Good point bdgee, you are right, our biggest problem with China is the oil they are about to consume. This will leave us dry or paying much more. Our problem now is the fact that solar and wind driven power is ineffective at best... not cheap enough and not efficient enough to power our needs. Easy solution is to go back to nuke plants. That solves keeping the lights on but what do we do about our cars? Right now unfortunately nothing because the power cells that are out there simply don't hold a charge long enough and are too heavy to boot. Either way you look at it, we are in a race to get ahead of their demmand.
-------------------- Spend Word For Word With Me And I Shall Make Your Wit Bankrupt. Posts: 1326 | From: Here | Registered: Oct 2005
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hopefully? GM will re-tool to an electric car system that can be recharged or run on fuel cells... there is a lot of very promising technology already developed... i'm still waiting for my investments in that area to wake up.... i guess it's gonna be a while..
that's one of the reasons i've been so "annoyed" with current policy makers....
we need to set a standard and then set up the infrastucture....
nuke power plants (or any electric supply) can be used to split water in to H an O2... we have to get off of carbon based energy
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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Sorry to say if you want to know who is leading the race for a good fuel cell vehicle it is Toyota and Honda as of right now. They are putting lots of money into that area of R/D. GM. will have to play chatch up from a position of weakness while on the other hand Toyta is now cash rich. And they have a schedualed product production of almost as many cars in 2006 as GM does,Just a little over 9 million. GM is starting to have collection problems with GMAC something that toyota does not have. Why because Toyota has been selling cars not money like GM has.A move to China on the scale that GM is doing tells me they are making a move in investment to get away from any large amount of R/D,so they can sell for the most part there current technology. Good move for the short run but looks to me like a disaster in the next 10 years.
Posts: 6008 | From: phoenix az | Registered: Mar 2005
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Electric vehicles will NEVER make it huge on the market. It's a nice idea but all auto makers will soon realize that there will never be any profits made from electric powered vehicles. Cost too damn much for R&D and manufacturing. The auto makers will soon know when to stop these projects when they know they're in financial hell.
-------------------- "NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF THE U.S./CHINA CONNECTION"
quote:Originally posted by DWE: Electric vehicles will NEVER make it huge on the market. It's a nice idea but all auto makers will soon realize that there will never be any profits made from electric powered vehicles. Cost too damn much for R&D and manufacturing. The auto makers will soon know when to stop these projects when they know they're in financial hell.
you couldn't be more wrong....
you'd be amazed by them if you knew anything about them...
you are obviously not an engineer...
the only thing holding us back on electric cars is the energy storage/delivery issue....
the motors and drive trains are capable of much higher power to weight ratios than reciprocating gasoline engines...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
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DWE you are absolutely wrong... There will be a HUGE market for electric vehicles. I for one am waiting with baited breath. I'm a muscle car guy.. I LOVE fast cars. Let me tell you... nothing will be faster than electric. They just have to make the power supplies lighter and last longer and cost less. When they can do that... BOOOOOOM
-------------------- Spend Word For Word With Me And I Shall Make Your Wit Bankrupt. Posts: 1326 | From: Here | Registered: Oct 2005
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Right right right..... I almost forgot. I'm DWE and I'm ALWAYS wrong about everything according to you. Let there be electric cars everywhere from now on. YAY! Gonna get me one too! ELECTRIC CARS FOREVER!!!
-------------------- "NEVER UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF THE U.S./CHINA CONNECTION"
posted
check out battery advances in power tools: lithium pack Milwaukee's using now in the 28-volt line? tough...saws as strong as corded; last longer; recharge quicker... so strong, you can now have a viable portable band-saw...crazy good
posted
The notion that solar power and wind power are too expensive is a myth generated mostly by the oil companies and engineers that did all their homework in college, but didn't get educated.
The facts are that if you don't add onto the cost of producing electricity, via either solar or wind (acually a secondary source of solar power), the cost of delivering it and realize that the power lines are already there and do not belong to the power companies, but the public, the cost of producing electricity with solar or wind is now within single digit percentage points (and often less than one) of fossil fuel produced electricity.
It isn't the cost of the research that holds up development of all electric vehicle production, it is the momentum of stubborn engineers that refuse to accept that things that weren't part of their college course work are not impossible.........and not impractical either.
Most of the world's fleets of heavy equipment and transportation vehicles already are all electric, using fossil fuel only to generate electricity to power the vehicle. (In mining operations, they don't bother with generating the electricity, in most cases, they just tie into the grid and use what the power companies sell them at enormously lowered rates.) The technology development that is needed lies in electricity production and delivery and that isn't terribly difficult either.
What actually is needed to see actual progress in developing independence from fossil fuels isn't new or magic ways to make electricity. (And we don't need nuclear plants either. Good ol' Sol supplies us with way more ergs of energy than thousands of nuclear plants could. The actual arithmatic reveals the astounding numbers of ergs available.) Setting some restrictioons on how oil and coal interest are allowed to buy the votes of congressmen is the key. It is not a scientific or engineering problem, it is POLITICAL!
Posts: 11304 | From: Fort Worth, Texas | Registered: Mar 2005
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