Military and US sources reveal: Bush has ordered US Iraq commander Gen. Casey to prepare February attack on Syria. Assad sends Syria’s chief of staff Gen. Habib to establish command post on Iraqi border. Israel braces for Hizballah backlash.
Moderate Arabs throw Bush’s Middle East democracy drive in disarray. Egyptian and Saudi interior ministers, who direct counter-terror operations, sent supportive messages to Iraqi insurgents and Palestinian terrorists from Jan. 2-5 Arab League Tunis conference. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
May want to think about pulling out of the market. However, the credible threat of invasion may cause Syria to stop helping terrorists, lend Syrian support to Israeli peace, and cooperate with U.S. in war on terror. That would prevent war, but is unlikely to occur.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
you can bet that all of the nations in the mid-east that worry about US invading have already set up/supplied their guerrilla forces....none of this will be easy ...
-------------------- Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise. Posts: 36378 | From: USA | Registered: Sep 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
wouldnt it be a very odd case of irony if we completely bankrupt our country to instill domocracy and success into some ****box middle east country ? all for the greater good of israel which is the biggest terrorist state in the mid-east? funny the way things work out, huh ?
-------------------- "Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over." Herbert Hoover 1930 Posts: 678 | From: currently in hiding due to investigation | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by thinkmoney: What is sad is that we ahve hurt USAs interest in protecting Israel's.
AGREE 100%.
heres an interesting article i found on the subject of syria written way back in OCT of 2003 please give it a look. http://www.aztlan.net/usasyria.htm
-------------------- "Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over." Herbert Hoover 1930 Posts: 678 | From: currently in hiding due to investigation | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Israel took arid and sandy land that the Arabs didn't want and became a succesful state.
Then Arabs started invading Israel and were defeated by Israel each time, acquiring land to use as a buffer in defense of their homeland.
The mideast hostilities are the fault of the Arabs not the Israelis.
Most nations have tacitly or openly abandoned Israel and sided with the Arabs - the U.S. alone has stood alone sometimes against aggressive invaders in the owrld, in this case siding with Israel.
The U.S. sees that it is in the world's best interest as well as its own best interest to have a stable world in which one country is not allowed to aggressively destroy and take over another country, unless this is in defense from future attack from that other country. What is good for the world is good for our economy, and this morality serves both.
So, thinkmoney and turbokid think we ought to allow one country to take over another, when this is not to prevent future attack from the taken over country. Your moral view on this (and anything else) depends on your needs, and your level of understanding of world events. There is no absolute morality - might makes right.
In this case the might is with the U.S.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by thinkmoney: What is sad is that we ahve hurt USAs interest in protecting Israel's.
AGREE 100%.
heres an interesting article i found on the subject of syria written way back in OCT of 2003 please give it a look. http://www.aztlan.net/usasyria.htm
Syria is the main reason why the Palestinians have refused to accept Israel's past generous peace offers to set up a new Palestinian state (there never has been a past palestinian state). Trucks leaving Iraq for Syria just before we invaded may well have ben carrying Saddam's WMD that are currently hidden in Syria. Syria is training terrorists that go into Iraq and kill U.S. soldiers.
We should have invaded Syria long ago.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
art, might makes right isnt always the case, and is subject to change, a few years ago saddam had a might over iraqs people (might makes right?)America invades iraq under false pretenses (might makes right?) israel invades palestine and takes its land, using US supplied tanks and jets, (might makes right?) Bullies in school pick on the nerdy kids (might makes right?) The nerdy kids eventually come to school with guns and kill the bullies, (might makes right?) Terrorists hijack 3 aircraft and crash them in to buildings (might makes right?) not always the case sir.
- A future scenario, a group of terrorists finally aquire nuclear weapons and detonate them in several US cities killing millions (might makes right)
-------------------- "Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over." Herbert Hoover 1930 Posts: 678 | From: currently in hiding due to investigation | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Art: Israel took arid and sandy land that the Arabs didn't want and became a succesful state.
Then Arabs started invading Israel and were defeated by Israel each time, acquiring land to use as a buffer in defense of their homeland.
the key word here is TOOK, they took land from the arabs, the jews were already granted land that was previosly arab, then began to take more, and with US backing retains the land stolen from them. do you think that if the arabs didnt want the land they would explode themselves trying to defend it.. ????
-------------------- "Gentleman, you have come sixty days too late. The depression is over." Herbert Hoover 1930 Posts: 678 | From: currently in hiding due to investigation | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
turbokid: art, might makes right isnt always the case, and is subject to change,....
Art: Not so. Even a moral principle that goes against the will and power of the majority is based on might - the power of the principle outweighs majority opinion. Most people are religious and want Chrisitan prayer in school, but the principle of separation of church and state is more powerful than the majority will - might makes right here. If the majority successfully changed the constitution to allow school Christian prayer than might would again make right. We are not talking just military might but also moral persuasion might.
turbokid: a few years ago saddam had a might over iraqs people (might makes right?)
Art: Yes, and his word ruled Iraq - was right in reality.
turbokid: America invades iraq under false pretenses (might makes right?)
Art: Absolutely right for america and wrong for terrorists. It was the best war to defeat terrorism and is working nicely. Democracy will come to the mideast and with it peace. The Palestinians have had there first democratic election and have voted for peace with Israel - the terorists suffer a bitter defeat here. The U.S. military next door was a big factor in this - bringing peace to the mideast in a few years.
turbokid: israel invades palestine and takes its land
Art: False. Israel was invaded by Syria and others, repelled the invasion driving the invaders back, and occupied some captured land which is now Israeli land, to establish a defense buffer. They gave much captured land back.
turbokid: Bullies in school pick on the nerdy kids (might makes right?)
Art: Right for the bullies and wrong for the kids. If the shool says it is wrong and succesfully enforces no bullying, then it is wrong, but until then the might of the bullies make it right. Might makes right in any case.
turbokids: then The nerdy kids eventually come to school with guns and kill the bullies, (might makes right?)
Art: Yep.
turbokid: Terrorists hijack 3 aircraft and crash them in to buildings (might makes right?)
Art: Yep, and our killing terrorists is right. Just depends on the perspective of moral evaluation.
turbokid: A future scenario, a group of terrorists finally aquire nuclear weapons and detonate them in several US cities killing millions (might makes right)
Art: Yep, and our killing them before they do this is right.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
quote:Originally posted by Art: Israel took arid and sandy land that the Arabs didn't want and became a succesful state.
Then Arabs started invading Israel and were defeated by Israel each time, acquiring land to use as a buffer in defense of their homeland.
the key word here is TOOK, they took land from the arabs, the jews were already granted land that was previosly arab, then began to take more, and with US backing retains the land stolen from them. do you think that if the arabs didnt want the land they would explode themselves trying to defend it.. ????
Actually the land was given to Israel under a U.N. mandate. Israel never took any land from anybody. Israel captured land after being invaded, and such land is theirs by virue of repelling invasion, as is recogmnized thoughout history.
Arabs don't want Israeli land, they want to kill the infidel even if they die doing it. The fact that the infidel (Israel) is successful where the Arab is not just adds to their sadistic revenge.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Idont know all the intricacies of mideast history but i did major in International affairs so I havr formal education and alot of gained knowledge.
The U. and its allies established Isreal following WW@ and we have fought to sustain its nationhood there against our interests.
I am not saying the arabs are right. Waht I am saying is that without understanding the age old fight over Jurusalem, we sided with Isreal at the expens of the USA.
i think I have been programmed to support Israel aslo, where I diverge is that we are beig stupid to harm our interests for Israel.
I am an American and my interests should be taken into account vs harm to me so that an Israeli can live in a land that 2 sides have fought since the beginning of time.
I am for America but I think the politics in this country have not been to the benefit of this country.
War has been here since the beginning and will be unless we have a mass rising in consciousness or we destroy ourselves. However, as in al lthing we shou;d choose our battles carefully.
In the end, as an american I will not fight for Israel so my kids can be killed. But the arabs, muslims will fight to the end. I think we better look at our resolute in this country before we make commitments that benefit the few but harm th many because in the end, we could lose.
I support Israel, but I also support the right of Palestinians..but heck...aove that I support my interests above Israe...
Shoul a country invade anothet? That is a subjective moralism on who we view as the aggressor. The muslims think we are the agressors.
i htink that a new party should be formed to represent america...how to keep this country a great country and a countr ywe can live to our children. If we leave the country in better shape then we were given, then we have succeeded as a generation. But if in worst shape then I got an issue with that.
I think the policies the bush admin is following can accelerate ww3 and what scares me is that my kids may witness war in our borders.
I am sorry but I can not fathom nor do i want suffering for my kids.
We need to have policies that protect our interests and I think it can be done.
One way to that objective is national discussion nad national awareness of what is happening.
Why did we go to Iraq? WMD???
We give money to those that want to destroy us. Are we that foolish. I think that if we use 5% of the defense budget on alternative energies, esp. so.lar power then we would not have the dependency of oil that we so fight for and harm us. We feed them the money and they want to destroy us. Just because I say I dont think we should protect israel at our expense doesnt mean I support the arabs or say not to support israel. It means we need more intelligent policies. We can support Israel and the Palestinians because that serves our interests.
And it is our interest why I am an american and not israels at the expense of mine.
It is imperative we work with israel and palestinians and that is our interest.
posted
I saw on the news a few days ago where the Kurds and the Shiites had volunteered to cross the border into Syria and take out the left-over reminants of the Suni regime....the question is, can they be trusted? Many of them defect to the other side when they are trained to fight with us . I hate the thoughts of another war...more lives lost and another country to rebuild. While I agree that the job needs to be finished, I hope that they find some other alternative other than war this time.
-------------------- "Without a rich heart, wealth is an ugly beggar".....Ralph Waldo Emerson Posts: 597 | From: KY | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Yes, thinkmoney, we should always act in our best interests and it is debatable as to whether we should have supported Israel in the beginning.
However, if we had not supported Israel, they likely would have all been killed by the Arabs. Hard to say if this would be good for us. Might have been.
However, we need alliance with Israel now. If we pulled our support of Israel now, war would eventually result and the economy of ourselves and the world would tank. We need a strong Israel to prevent mideast war, and thuis now need to support them. We particularly can not allow Israel to be attacked, by Arab nations, with nuclear weapons in the future - a nuclear war in the mideast would be disasterous for our economy as well as the world's. There is no turning back, either in our support of Israel or in our ensuring a democracy in Iraq - both are vital for muideast security. Democracy is our strongest weapon in the mideast - terrorism will be voted out by the Arabs if they get a chance, like in the recent Palestinian elections.
You simply have no idea of how mideast security has been maintained by a strong Israel backed by the U.S., even though at first glance our support of Israel seems to be a destabilizing influence. The exception to this was when Saddam invaded Kuwait, and we had to assert our might to stabilize the mideast.
As far as when does a country have a right to invade another country, as judged from a world perspective, the answer is in defense from past or future immoral attack.
Israel was immorally attacked and defended itself in a retaliation that extended into enemy terrority, several times.
Tghe U. S. was immorally attacked and is now defending itself in preventing future immoral attack from terroists, in actions in the mideast.
-------------------- The light of truth is blinding to most.
More comforting to look only at the shadows of falseness. Posts: 4402 | From: Florida | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged |
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
