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glassman
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How about some comments on how you feel about the government monitoring your reading habits.


People willing to give up their freedom for security deserve neither.
(loosely quoted from Ben Franklin) i lost my Bartlets a few years back and haven't replaced it yet

Today a a Vietnamese professor was handed a 19 month sentence for posting negative comments about his government on the internet.


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Bob Frey
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I guess I would care if I was saying something that matters. But hey I try and stay out of stuff that matters.


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gray1
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I'm not worried. I deal with the VA IRS DMV
DOT and a few other depts. None have the motivation ability or resources to monitor what I read or to do anything about it. The FBI CIA Homeland Sec. SS are really just a bunch of bumbling suits waiting to retire.

Posts: 100 | From: roanoke va usa | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged | Report this post to a Moderator
glassman
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good point gray1. i think you have observed much the same kind of things that i have; in order to come to that conclusion. the patriot act was apparently not even read by most of the elected representatives that voted on it. my concerns are that the act contains many provisions that erode our freedom.
This is, in fact, the TRUE goal of the terrorists we are fighting today. Every time we give up even the tiniest of the freedoms that make the US unique in the world, we have lost another battle to Osama Bin Alive Too Long. MILLIONS OF AMERICANS HAVE EITHER GIVEN THEIR LIVES OR OFFERED THEM TO PROTECT EVEN THE TINIEST OF THESE FREEDOMS.


my concerns are that eventually, one little step at a time, there will be officials, elected, appointed, and civil servants, that take advantage of this poorly constructed document in ways that we can't foresee.i am not speculating here, this WILL happen, it is human nature. For instance, the founding fathers definitely did not want Federal taxes collected EXCEPT in times of war and emergency, today we accept them as a fact of life....not only that, we accept a budget every year that has no hope of being balanced. do you realise that more than 25% of the federal budget goes to pay interest?
I am amazed at the complacency of the American People today. We are accepting excuses for failure, as if the people in charge aren't responsible for what their employees do. When that Navy Sub surfaced under that japanese fishing boat off the coast of HI, the Captain re-EARNED my respect by acknowledging his failure PERSONALLY and stepping down. Being the BOSS once meant "The Buck Stops Here". Now it means "not my fault". We'll find some enlisted guys to put in the brig, they are the problem........
What ever happened to "NOT ON MY WATCH"????


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gray1
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Gman. I agree. The patriot act was a kneejerk piece of legislation that went much to far. However we have 2 more institutions that are in the process of correcting that, however slowly. The Supreme Court has said Bush can't keep those prisoners in Cuba locked up without legal representation and they consistantly rule for free speech. Then we have a free press thats so free the NY Post can pick the wrong VP. And then we have places like this where we have intelligent exchanges and further there's places like RBULL where people say anything to anybody. Americans have strong healthy streak that says "DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO AND DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO THINK" As long as this country can produce a Tom Waits we're going to be ok.
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glassman
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what prompted me to post this when i did was that there was a bill aimed at restricting some of the library and book-buying monitoring. it was expected to be passed, but apparently the republicans (my party) defeated it after all. one of the reasons that i am a republican and have been one all my life is that i have felt that the democrats have been proponents of big, and intrusive government. i understand that this is war, but this is the kind of war that MAY never end. we don't appear to be any closer to ending terrorism today than we were on 9-12. so at what point do we get our rights back?????
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Upside
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originally posted by glassman:
quote:
so at what point do we get our rights back?????

We will never get them back. Once they're gone, they're gone for good. Little by little our rights and freedoms are being eroded in the name of national security or more recently, public morality. I'm sure you've heard about the latest round of fines that the FCC is handing out based on the new morality over the airwaves laws? While I don't agree with all that is said on the radio and television, I'm not in favor of censoring it. Granted there is a fine line that needs to be observed but it's not up to the government to determine where that line is drawn, it's up to us to let the broadcasters know through our listener or viewership, hence ratings.

The Patriot Act removes so many checks and balances from the governments surveillance powers that we could truly evolve into an Orwellian type society. The problem with us is that most people will give up anything in the name of national security and anyone who disagrees with it is labeled anti-American when exacty the opposite is the truth.


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glassman
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iguess that's why i started this post.in some ways i feel like you do, but i will not go quietly....

our greatest strengths lie in our freedoms of speech. it seems to me that the moderate views are getting shouted down by the wingers on both sides of the fence..(what's new???)sadly this is ultimately the goal of all terrorists. to manipulate the group mind into letting their emotions take over. in the markets we call people who let their emotions take over bankrupt......


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glassman
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got some more stuck in my spleen here, sorry but this needs air..LOL
what ever happened to the conservative view of smaller federal and stronger local gov????
it seems to me that the current conservative view is that the world can only be fixed by an all-powerful government. this is a BIG departure from the Reagan policy/legacy. we are at war TRUE, but we are not at war with a geographical region or even a recognized government. HOW MANY members does Al-Queda have???? I haven't even heard a guesstimate. So, let's guess a big number and say 200,000 members worldwide. That's like the city of Lincoln Nebraska DIRECTING the whole country....Let's get our priorities straight here people....

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HasmirFenring
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I agree glassman, I am generally pretty confused at why people who call themselves "conservatives" support candidates who push for (among many other un-conservative ideas) a huge and unaccountable federal government that regularly tries and succeeds at trumping state powers, not to mention dumping millions upon millions into corporate welfare (which is obviously a huge violation of the basics of a free market). I remember someone on this board bringing up Adam Smith (who incidentally is put under the umbrella of classical liberalism in the books that I have read, none of which are by Rush Limbaugh). What would Adam Smith say about Republican fiscal management? I bet he'd blame it on Clinton
Think outside the box!

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