posted July 06, 2004 10:37            

I'm neither a pumper nor a basher of this stock... i'm just here for the cheap lottery ticket, and that somehow bothers you... I don't know why... probably because for everyone who's in big with little cash, you can't shake them...

posted July 06, 2004 11:22            

Just made a quick check of this thread and then back a project that will yield productive results instead of stinking gas.

Whatever your question was, I am sure you will repeat it. Redundancy is the name of the game for you pumpers. And you, most certainly, are among the PUMPERS!

My many responsibilities on WS included doing everything possible to protect shareholders from SCAMS, to search out, prevent and eliminate CONFLICTS OF INTEREST, to oversee and require proper/accurate reporting and public releasing of company information and to do everything I could to make sure that shareholders (AND POTENTIAL STOCKHOLDERS) were getting a fair and orderly market. That is still of interest and important to me. You couldn't begin to understand what is really happening on WS. I have forgotten more than any of you PUMPERS will ever begin to know. Yes, in my opinion, CMKX is a SCAM!!!!!

posted July 06, 2004 11:27            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wallace#1:
pharmdman,

Just made a quick check of this thread and then back a project that will yield productive results instead of stinking gas.

Whatever your question was, I am sure you will repeat it. Redundancy is the name of the game for you pumpers. And you, most certainly, are among the PUMPERS!

My many responsibilities on WS included doing everything possible to protect shareholders from SCAMS, to search out, prevent and eliminate CONFLICTS OF INTEREST, to oversee and require proper/accurate reporting and public releasing of company information and to do everything I could to make sure that shareholders (AND POTENTIAL STOCKHOLDERS) were getting a fair and orderly market. That is still of interest and important to me. You couldn't begin to understand what is really happening on WS. I have forgotten more than any of you PUMPERS will ever begin to know. Yes, in my opinion, CMKX is a SCAM!!!!!

---

posted July 06, 2004 11:39            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wallace#1:
pharmdman,

Just made a quick check of this thread and then back a project that will yield productive results instead of stinking gas.

Whatever your question was, I am sure you will repeat it. Redundancy is the name of the game for you pumpers. And you, most certainly, are among the PUMPERS!

My many responsibilities on WS included doing everything possible to protect shareholders from SCAMS, to search out, prevent and eliminate CONFLICTS OF INTEREST, to oversee and require proper/accurate reporting and public releasing of company information and to do everything I could to make sure that shareholders (AND POTENTIAL STOCKHOLDERS) were getting a fair and orderly market. That is still of interest and important to me. You couldn't begin to understand what is really happening on WS. I have forgotten more than any of you PUMPERS will ever begin to know. Yes, in my opinion, CMKX is a SCAM!!!!!

---

Sure, Wallace,.. .just for you I'll repeat the question.... I'm paraphrasing the previous, but I'm sure you'll recognize it.

If you're such a whiz on Wall Street, please explain how several weeks ago you did not know what MMs were or who NITE & JEFF were. Your elusive response originally was that you were new to pinks, but that is a bogus reponse and you know it. MMs, NITE, & JEFF are not pink-exclusive.

posted July 06, 2004 12:31            

Pharmman took the time out of his day to put a 'I'm Wayne Brady, Bi-tch' wannabe back in his place:

"since you didn't know MMs 6 weeks ago and now you're a Wall Street expert focusing on good deeds for shareholders! "

-PRICELESS!!!LOLOL!!!

Wallace the WALL-street-ACE????? Hmmmmm....

Not likely...

Now ME AND PHARM ARE PUMPERS... Lolol... I love it, its like ebing back in 8th grade with Mr. Wall Street. Wallace the only thing near Wall Street is your dad, turning tricks for a quarter a pop... I know because I saw him, lol I gave him and IOU but I do not intend on paying him back, heheh....

Thats .25 more of cmkx shares...

posted July 06, 2004 15:11            

Personal attacks and INCONSISTENT information is a definate notice.

I've written off ppl on both sides of this fence for this reason.

I'd really like to see Wallace's response to Pharms post.

posted July 06, 2004 15:13            

Strong Buy Date: Sun June 27, 2004 01:05:58 PM
Message #: of 102
$2,068,000,000,000 in CMKX value from kimberlite and diamonds

Intrinsic Value ÷ OS = Price that CMKX is worth
850,000,000,000 ÷ 375,175,612,132 = $2.26

*CMKX-The AS/OS 500 Billion Answer*

Everyone, please understand. I heard the interviews on IBC radio were great! I heard that the only thing that they would come back at us about was dealing with not knowing the Outstanding Shares (OS) structure. I was asked by a few; how can we consider that concern? Well here’s how…

What we must do is bring forth the thought with a worse case scenario twist to show how we still would have obtained value to support what a max number would be for our OS. We first logically must show how we derived at this worse case scenario for a max OS number.

** According to this filing below, CMKX had an OS of 7,241,653,404 shares. http://secfilings.nasdaq.com/filingFrameset.asp?FileName=0001117768%2D03%2D000002%2Etxt&FilePath...

** They later did a 2 to 1 forward split to take shares to 14,483,306,808 shares.

** The insiders own 85.7% of the 14,483,306,808 shares from the Form 14C, which equates to 12,412,193,934 shares owned by the insiders for voting and controlling rights.

** As time went on, the Authorized Shares (AS) had risen to 200,000,000,000 from talking with the Nevada State Office. Let’s assume that they maxed the AS to be the OS at 200,000,000,000 shares.

So, 200,000,000,000 – 12,412,193,934 = 187,587,806,066

** So, 187,587,806,066 is the max that could be own by the takeover entity.

** This means that Urban and CMKX would need to own more than the above amount of which equates to:

187,587,806,066 x 2 = 375,175,612,132 shares
(We’ll round this number to 380,000,000,000 to make sure we capture the 51% controlling interest and for simplifying the pending calculations.)

** This means that there could be a chance that a takeover candidate could have been plotting against Urban and CMKX so they would need to make sure that they owned 51% of the OS to have the controlling interest in CMKX.

** This was a must to ensure that they own at least 51% of CMKX to stop CMKX from ever being taken over. Urban had no choice but to do this from the way I see it. These shares could have remained in the treasury. They have to be issued and outstanding to be recognized by the SEC and NASD officials to combat any takeover attempt resolutions.

** It was recently discovered that Urban raised the AS to 500,000,000,000 to use as an insurance police against any takeover efforts. This would mean that he felt that someone might be trying to take over CMKX as a business entity and could have bought the required 51% through naked shorted shares to use as justification.

** So bottom line, the increase of the OS to 500 billion was to make sure they capture the needed 380 billion to have for the OS to create their own insurance policy to prevent any takeover attempts.

** Having such a large OS is not an issue because of the value that resides within CMKX.

** An OS of this magnitude is required to make sure there is enough liquidity for trading purposes.

** Another key thought is to understand that it’s all about “Supply versus Demand” when your shares are trading in the market. Once the float is gone, it’s gone. It doesn’t matter whether or not your OS is 5 million shares or 5 trillion shares. When the float is gone, it’s gone.

Now for determining the use of an Intrinsic Value of 850 billion from the use of residual valuation pricing techniques, let’s consider some logical deduction. If that little piece of 58,000 acres of DeBeers could be valued at $40 to $80 billion, surely our now nearly 3 million acres of land that surrounds those 58,000 acres of land of DeBeers could be worth much more. (OK, maybe I know this, but let’s act like I don’t.) Let’s even forget that we “probably” own two thirds of that piece of land too. Keep the theories in the link below in your thoughts too: http://ragingbull.lycos.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=CLB01219&read=6425

What if $40 to $80 billion is the price valuation ratio for every piece of the 58,000 acres of land? This would equate to our pieces of land in the FALC region to be:

3,000,000 ÷ 58,000,000 = 51.7 groupings of 58,000 acres to be multiplied by $40 to $80 billion ratio.

Some groupings could be easily valued in the area of $80 billion, but we will use the low side of $40 billion to consider what would warrant below:

$40,000,000,000 x 51.7 = $2,068,000,000,000 in CMKX value from kimberlite and diamonds

Hopefully you can now see how with even using an intrinsic value of 850 billion is very conservative when providing logical deduction as to how CMKX could very well be worth over $2 trillion in kimberlite and diamonds alone. This does not include the overabundance of having gold, platinum, uranium, titanium, and of course diamonds.

Since we don’t really know if the 850 billion we will use as the Intrinsic Value is based on an annual, quarterly, or exponential value, we will not need to multiply by a PE Ratio because the growth rate is not known for the residual valuation pricing techniques just used.

Intrinsic Value ÷ OS = Price that CMKX is worth
850,000,000,000 ÷ 375,175,612,132 = $2.26

Keep in mind that 51% of the OS, 191,339,562,187 shares will be restricted and owned by insiders. This means that the share structure would look as followed:

375,175,612,132 = OS
191,339,562,187 = Restricted Shares
183,836,049,943 = Float

Let me inform you of a little secret; once the float is gone, the float is gone as I had mentioned earlier. This could be why the stock has not moved as of yet. If this is the case then maybe there is not a short, then maybe there is. The revealed value will cause the float to be dried up very quickly once officially released if there is not a short position.

With all the value that we have, who cares? A stock with this much value will be needing the liquidity for trading purposes. This is why we do not need a reverse split. I say bring on the PRs to justify value and growth of the company and everything else will run its course!!!

Now, if there really is a naked short position, then that’s a whole increased story for exponential gains that we will consider discussing later. That would be too powerful.

…that $1.00 is a good minimum share price to offer to buy us shareholders out for Urban and CMKX to go private. From the logic above, CMKX could easily be worth $2.26 per share. This would no doubt to force a naked short covering out of this world. The good thing about this, even if you don’t believe that there is a short, then what was posted above would transpire still as a minimum.

Urban has a great many friends and family members invested into CMKX at much higher prices than where CMKX is currently trading. Just breaking even is not the goal. Urban is a people person and has a wonderful attitude, understanding, and concern for all shareholders to include us little guys here in RB land. I trust Urban and his team of experts and so should we all!

_______________________

I chose this title because I think this is the name that fits the upcoming success story with CMKX. I think I heard either Peter or Frank mention it too and I liked it. Urban Casavant has the same goal as I which is to create a million millionaires for those who have read my initial posts on my board. What a coincidence.

Please consider these thoughts that you are about to read as “theory” until proven as “facts” from Urban and CMKX.

Urban believes that the naked short position on CMKX could very well be 1 trillion shares. To force the shorts to cover, an accountability process must take place. The changing of the CUSIP# was done earlier for them to first gather internal accountability of all CMKX shares. Also to kind of serve as a warning for the market makers, MMs, to consider covering any naked shorted positions.

Now comes the time to force the MMs to gather accountability for covering. Urban can do this by re-issuing CIM shares as a dividend to all current shareholders of CMKX shares to be effective by an execution date sometime in the near future. Maybe some date like 15 Jun or 30 June 04.

But first and at the same time, announce that CMKX has made a $1.00 per share tender offer to buy all shares of CMKX shareholder’s shares to take the company private. They will be willing to do this because insiders own at least 85.7% of the OS so it would really be like buying out yourself or paying yourself. Going private along with re-issuing the CIM dividend will no doubt force the MMs to cover all naked shorted positions.

You can do a lot when you own billions of dollars in gold, platinum, uranium, kimberlite, and diamonds to say the least. Buying us out to go private at $1.00 per share still might be too low, but I’m sure many would appreciate such yet still.

Now after the announcement of taking CMKX private, CMKX will make the announcement that those who buy CMKX up to the new execution date will receive a 1,000 to 1 dividend of CIM shares to further compensate the value that the company has determined to award fair value to its shareholders.

That’s right, CMKX will take back those already old CIM shares to give them in return the newly re-issued CIM shares with value unlike before. Others who never had any CIM shares would receive CIM shares under the same newly 1,000 to 1 ratio and investors will have up until the new execution date to buy to receive the newly re-issued CIM shares dividend.

They will also announce that CIM will apply for a new CUSIP# and ticker to submit application to trading on the NASDAQ National Market since they must trade with four symbols on the NASDAQ markets. They will announce that Qualifications are expected to be met by some future date maybe like 31 Jul or Aug 04 to submit application to the NASDAQ National Market. This means that CIM would trade at no lower than $5.00 per share.

The Look of the CIM Dividend
We will guess and say that CMKX OS is 40 billion shares and the OS for CIM is to be 40 million shares.

CMKX OS ÷ CIM OS = Dividend Ratio
40,000,000,000 ÷ 40,000,000 = Dividend Ratio
1,000 = Dividend Ratio

With 1,000 to 1 Dividend of CIM shares this means you pay the following to get the end result listed below:

1,000 Shares of CMKX = .10 cents
1 Share of CIM = $5.00

So…
1,000 Shares of CMKX = 1 Share of CIM

Or to better review...
.10 cents = $5.00

This is saying that for every .10 cents you spend, you will receive $5.00 back in return.

In Summary…
** If you bought 10,000,000 shares of CMKX at .0001 cent, it would cost you $1,000 total.

In return you would receive in CIM shares:

CMKX shares ÷ Dividend Ratio = Total shares of CIM
10,000,000 ÷ 1,000 = 10,000

This means that your total value in your brokerage account would be as below:

10,000,000 x .0001 = $1,000 for CMKX
10,000 x $5.00 = $50,000 for CIM

Again, not a merger, a dividend to where the shareholders get to keep their 10,000,000 shares of CMKX and receive their new 10,000 shares of CIM at the dividend rate of 1 CIM share for every 1,000 CMKX shares you have or buy before the execution date in the very near future. The total amount from the brokerage account would be $51,000 from your initial investment of $1,000 of CMKX shares, right?

Not so. Don’t forget that your 10,000,000 million shares of CMKX will be given the tender offer of $1.00 per share so that would make that equate to:

$10,000,000 + $50,000 = $10,050,000 in total value

This is very powerful. CIM is used as the company for the dividend because CIM has claims to a huge zinc find that is valued at a tremendous amount. Urban wants to reward previous shareholders and current shareholders who had not the opportunity to become shareholders of CMKX by its first CIM date of execution. Because of such, he is re-issuing shares of CIM and using as the selected company to move to the NASDAQ.

Now get this, we are still not done with accessing value. Analyze what is transpiring to place actual value in CMKX to further entice investors to take a position in CMKX if what was discussed above was not enough.

To Determine a Minimum CMKX Valuation for the Tender Offer
It has been now determined that we actually picked up two thirds of the piece of land that was originally thought to have been DeBeers and was that piece of land/kimberlite that Dr. Hutchison valued at $40 to $80 billion.

Let’s take the low side to determine fundamental valuation. Two thirds of $40 billion is about $26 billion. I will use that amount x 2 as the amount as income because of what many will soon discover is that we have far more resources and locations that would allow that to be used as a minimum. This figure of $52 billion would definitely cover above and beyond any expenses. Again, I think such would be revealed soon to show how this figure is still being conservative.

From the above example we guesstimated that the OS for CMKX was no higher than 40 billion so we will us the same figure here. Please observe:

Income ÷ CMKX OS = EPS
52,000,000,000 ÷ 40,000,000,000 = EPS
1.30 = EPS

So giving the share holders a Tender Offer of $1.00 could be viewed as a conservative offer by Urban and CMKX, but yet still would be greatly appreciated.

** Now what if we really do have a huge abundance silver, zinc, gold, uranium, platinum, and diamonds to say the least?

** Now what if CMKX is 1 trillion shares naked shorted as anticipated?

** Now what if we do have miles and miles of kimberlite that was discovered from the aerial survey?

** Now what if they encountered an overburden that was valued at 500+ million?

** Now what if they had billions of dollars of kimberlite alone that they use to re-mineralize and sell as soil?

** Now what if one of the newly found kimberlite pipes is miles and miles long?

** Now what if this is going to be the biggest margin call in the world?

** Now what if we do have micro and macro diamonds in all of our kimberlite found?

** Now what if there really are lots of corporate investors that are about to join the party?

** Now what if there were huge zinc deposits found to be issued under the CIM shares?

** Now what if Urban have many friends and family that are long term investors in CMKX?

** Now what if Urban promised that he would take care of them and make them all millionaires?

** Now what if our claims are now up to nearly 3 million acres in the FALC region?

** Now what if all of this is the big plan Urban has to get the shorts?

** Now what if we have one pipe of kimberlite that is miles and miles long?

** Now what if we have all the money and support we need to make all of this happen?

** Now what if Urban really love the shareholders as many of us thinks?

** Now what if all above is true?

As I stated earlier in this post, please consider these thoughts that you have read as “theory” until proven as “facts” from Urban and CMKX. The above will only become official only when Urban and CMKX make such official. Until then, these are only my thoughts. It is my opinion that CMKX will make many of us prosperous!

________________________

I chose this title because I think this is the name that fits the upcoming success story with CMKX. I think I heard either Peter or Frank mention it too and I liked it. Urban Casavant has the same goal as I which is to create a million millionaires for those who have read my initial posts on my board. What a coincidence.

Please consider these thoughts that you are about to read as “theory” until proven as “facts” from Urban and CMKX.

Urban believes that the naked short position on CMKX could very well be 1 trillion shares. To force the shorts to cover, an accountability process must take place. The changing of the CUSIP# was done earlier for them to first gather internal accountability of all CMKX shares. Also to kind of serve as a warning for the market makers, MMs, to consider covering any naked shorted positions.

Now comes the time to force the MMs to gather accountability for covering. Urban can do this by re-issuing CIM shares as a dividend to all current shareholders of CMKX shares to be effective by an execution date sometime in the near future. Maybe some date like 15 Jun or 30 June 04.

But first and at the same time, announce that CMKX has made a $1.00 per share tender offer to buy all shares of CMKX shareholder’s shares to take the company private. They will be willing to do this because insiders own at least 85.7% of the OS so it would really be like buying out yourself or paying yourself. Going private along with re-issuing the CIM dividend will no doubt force the MMs to cover all naked shorted positions.

You can do a lot when you own billions of dollars in gold, platinum, uranium, kimberlite, and diamonds to say the least. Buying us out to go private at $1.00 per share still might be too low, but I’m sure many would appreciate such yet still.

Now after the announcement of taking CMKX private, CMKX will make the announcement that those who buy CMKX up to the new execution date will receive a 1,000 to 1 dividend of CIM shares to further compensate the value that the company has determined to award fair value to its shareholders.

That’s right, CMKX will take back those already old CIM shares to give them in return the newly re-issued CIM shares with value unlike before. Others who never had any CIM shares would receive CIM shares under the same newly 1,000 to 1 ratio and investors will have up until the new execution date to buy to receive the newly re-issued CIM shares dividend.

They will also announce that CIM will apply for a new CUSIP# and ticker to submit application to trading on the NASDAQ National Market since they must trade with four symbols on the NASDAQ markets. They will announce that Qualifications are expected to be met by some future date maybe like 31 Jul or Aug 04 to submit application to the NASDAQ National Market. This means that CIM would trade at no lower than $5.00 per share.

The Look of the CIM Dividend
We will guess and say that CMKX OS is 40 billion shares and the OS for CIM is to be 40 million shares.

CMKX OS ÷ CIM OS = Dividend Ratio
40,000,000,000 ÷ 40,000,000 = Dividend Ratio
1,000 = Dividend Ratio

With 1,000 to 1 Dividend of CIM shares this means you pay the following to get the end result listed below:

1,000 Shares of CMKX = .10 cents
1 Share of CIM = $5.00

So…
1,000 Shares of CMKX = 1 Share of CIM

Or to better review...
.10 cents = $5.00

This is saying that for every .10 cents you spend, you will receive $5.00 back in return.

In Summary…
** If you bought 10,000,000 shares of CMKX at .0001 cent, it would cost you $1,000 total.

In return you would receive in CIM shares:

CMKX shares ÷ Dividend Ratio = Total shares of CIM
10,000,000 ÷ 1,000 = 10,000

This means that your total value in your brokerage account would be as below:

10,000,000 x .0001 = $1,000 for CMKX
10,000 x $5.00 = $50,000 for CIM

Again, not a merger, a dividend to where the shareholders get to keep their 10,000,000 shares of CMKX and receive their new 10,000 shares of CIM at the dividend rate of 1 CIM share for every 1,000 CMKX shares you have or buy before the execution date in the very near future. The total amount from the brokerage account would be $51,000 from your initial investment of $1,000 of CMKX shares, right?

Not so. Don’t forget that your 10,000,000 million shares of CMKX will be given the tender offer of $1.00 per share so that would make that equate to:

$10,000,000 + $50,000 = $10,050,000 in total value

This is very powerful. CIM is used as the company for the dividend because CIM has claims to a huge zinc find that is valued at a tremendous amount. Urban wants to reward previous shareholders and current shareholders who had not the opportunity to become shareholders of CMKX by its first CIM date of execution. Because of such, he is re-issuing shares of CIM and using as the selected company to move to the NASDAQ.

Now get this, we are still not done with accessing value. Analyze what is transpiring to place actual value in CMKX to further entice investors to take a position in CMKX if what was discussed above was not enough.

To Determine a Minimum CMKX Valuation for the Tender Offer
It has been now determined that we actually picked up two thirds of the piece of land that was originally thought to have been DeBeers and was that piece of land/kimberlite that Dr. Hutchison valued at $40 to $80 billion.

Let’s take the low side to determine fundamental valuation. Two thirds of $40 billion is about $26 billion. I will use that amount x 2 as the amount as income because of what many will soon discover is that we have far more resources and locations that would allow that to be used as a minimum. This figure of $52 billion would definitely cover above and beyond any expenses. Again, I think such would be revealed soon to show how this figure is still being conservative.

From the above example we guesstimated that the OS for CMKX was no higher than 40 billion so we will us the same figure here. Please observe:

Income ÷ CMKX OS = EPS
52,000,000,000 ÷ 40,000,000,000 = EPS
1.30 = EPS

So giving the share holders a Tender Offer of $1.00 could be viewed as a conservative offer by Urban and CMKX, but yet still would be greatly appreciated.

** Now what if we really do have a huge abundance silver, zinc, gold, uranium, platinum, and diamonds to say the least?

** Now what if CMKX is 1 trillion shares naked shorted as anticipated?

** Now what if we do have miles and miles of kimberlite that was discovered from the aerial survey?

** Now what if they encountered an overburden that was valued at 500+ million?

** Now what if they had billions of dollars of kimberlite alone that they use to re-mineralize and sell as soil?

** Now what if one of the newly found kimberlite pipes is miles and miles long?

** Now what if this is going to be the biggest margin call in the world?

** Now what if we do have micro and macro diamonds in all of our kimberlite found?

** Now what if there really are lots of corporate investors that are about to join the party?

** Now what if there were huge zinc deposits found to be issued under the CIM shares?

** Now what if Urban have many friends and family that are long term investors in CMKX?

** Now what if Urban promised that he would take care of them and make them all millionaires?

** Now what if our claims are now up to nearly 3 million acres in the FALC region?

** Now what if all of this is the big plan Urban has to get the shorts?

** Now what if we have one pipe of kimberlite that is miles and miles long?

** Now what if we have all the money and support we need to make all of this happen?

** Now what if Urban really love the shareholders as many of us thinks?

** Now what if all above is true?

As I stated earlier in this post, please consider these thoughts that you have read as “theory” until proven as “facts” from Urban and CMKX. The above will only become official only when Urban and CMKX make such official. Until then, these are only my thoughts. It is my opinion that CMKX will make many of us prosperous!

posted July 06, 2004 16:35            

I did respond to the question a long time back...but in very brief detail. I will do so again in more detail just for you.

I have been trading securities since the 1960's and am fully invested and quite comfortable with my investments. I had about $50K I could afford to play around with and not be the least bit hurt if I lost all of it.

Where I worked and managed on Wall Street, we had absolutely nothing to do with OTCBB or PINKS. As a matter of fact, they were and still are a joke. I got involved with them on a lark and to see what fun I could have with them. I plan to continue to do so.

My experience has strictly been with reputable securities markets and companies. I had no reason to get involved with MMs or Pinks. They are not considered worth bothering with by most people working on WS. When I decided to PLAY with Pinks, then was when I wanted to know more about the MMs and how to precisely follow their trading, tactics, etc. It would not have been prudent of me to do otherwise.

In addition I have advanced degrees from an extremely reputable and well known University. I graduated magna cum laude.
Suma cum laude was out of the question because I had to work my way through college. It is not beneath me to try to learn more about things...no matter how old I get.

The above information in no way negates my knowledge of stocks (both preferred and common), trading, IPOs, secondary offerings, debentures, exchange listings, delistings, traded companies, financial reports, public releases, corporate counsels, corporate resolutions, opinions of counsel, transfer agents, conflicts of interest, illegal voting arrangements, shareholder reports, option plans, acquisitions, mergers, splits, dividends - cash or stock, insider trading and the basic mechanics of securities trading specifically or in general. I worked with such things all day long...and so did the people I managed. Everything went through the operations in which I was involved.

I neither see nor saw any need to be more specific with someone like a pharmacist, an x-cop or a bunch of people lost in la la land. They could not begin to understand the detail that has to be considered in each and every activity associated with the above matters.

Such things as authorized shares, issued shares, outstanding shares, float and treasury shares are kid stuff to me...and I understood them long before anyone posting on these threads ever thought to inquire about them.

Sure, there are questions I still have about the MMs and the PINKS...but not very many now. Because I was willing to learn and listen to those who had the knowledge. The fact that I can do so, is more than I can say about most of the posters on the CMKX threads.

posted July 06, 2004 16:47            

Lol Wallace and Michael Jackson has always been black...

Thank you for taking your time to tell us about yourself.

Don't you love the part that he has 50k to throw around,lol... nice to add that in there ace

See my plan is not to be as old as you are when you have that 50k to throw around Wallace. I am 23 and do not want to wait until your ripe old age when people like Pharm have to give you your Viagra... or change the Depends....

posted July 06, 2004 16:47            

By the way, Wallace. What's the deal with bashing cops now. No offense, but I would have to guess that you have been in some legal trouble, probably dealing with securities, based on the fact that you were so quick to bash the securities lawyer they hired, and now are so enthusiastically bashing police officers in general. I don't mean any offense by that, just stating my opinion based on what appears obvious to me. have a good even all.

Kev

quote:

---

Originally posted by rchaud98:
[
Try your magic spins with this info.

First URBAN CASAVANT has not been in the diamond minning business professionaly for 15 to 20 years as some of you claim. I dought it if has been it at all except for the 3 years he has been swindeling you people.

He and his pals have been and still are involved in many other companys (scams) incorprated in Navada. So many that I quit looking once a pattern emerged.

The 500 billion issue.

You can say all you want to about "oh maybe he hasn't issued all the shares, or he has been retiring shares as fast as he can.)

"fact is CMKX is authorised to issue 500 billion shares and he has been dumping the into the market for months now. Big deal he claims to have retired 20 billion shares that still leaves 480 billion issued."

You can remove this post if you want to and I expect you will. I intend to post it on every board I find on CMKX

By the way DAVID DESORMEAU CMKX's CFO has already been charge in Kentucky with stock fraud in another case.

Dean Heller
Nevada Secretary of State
Corporate Information

CANADIAN DIAMOND FIELDS INTERNATIONAL, INC.
Resident Agent: BUSINESS WORKS INC.
Business Address: 1603 MOWBRAY CT HENDERSON NV
President: DAVID DESORMEAU 1603 MOWBRAY CT, HENDERSON NV.
Secretary: JAMES KINNEY HCR 33 BOX 2594, LAS VEGAS NV.
Treasurer: JAMES KINNEY HCR 33 BOX 2594, LAS VEGAS NV.
Incorporated On: May 19, 2003

CASAVANT INTERNATIONAL MINING CORPORATION
Resident Agent: BUSINESS WORKS INC.
Business Address: 1603 MOWBRAY CT HENDERSON NV
President: URBAN CASAVANT PO BOX 27740, LAS VEGAS NV.
Secretary: CAROLYN CASAVANT PO BOX 27740, LAS VEGAS NV.
Treasurer: EMMERSON KOCH PO BOX 27740, LAS VEGAS NV.
Incorporated On: January 21, 2003

CASAVANT RACING CORPORATION
Resident Agent: BUSINESS WORKS INC.
Business Address: 1603 MOWBRAY CT HENDERSON NV
President: DAVID DESORMEAU 1603 MOWBRAY CT, HENDERSON NV.

Secretary: DAVID DESORMEAU 1603 MOWBRAY CT, HENDERSON NV.

Treasurer: DAVID DESORMEAU 1603 MOWBRAY CT, HENDERSON NV.

DESERT STOCK TRANSFER COMPANY
Resident Agent: BUSINESS WORKS INC.
Business Address: 1603 MOWBRAY CT HENDERSON NV
President: URBAN CASAVANT 4955 S DURANGO #214 LAS VEGAS NV.
Secretary: URBAN CASAVANT 4955 S DURANGO #214 LAS VEGAS NV.
Treasurer: URBAN CASAVANT 4955 S DURANGO #214 LAS VEGAS NV.
Incorporated On: July 01, 2004

SILVER FOX CAPITAL INC.
Resident Agent: BUSINESS WORKS INC.
Business Address: 1603 MOWBRAY CT HENDERSON NV
President: DAVID DESORMEAU 1603 MOWBRAY CT, HENDERSON NV.

Secretary: DAVID DESORMEAU 1603 MOWBRAY CT, HENDERSON NV.

Treasurer: DAVID DESORMEAU 1603 MOWBRAY CT, HENDERSON NV.

Incorporated On: February 17, 2004

SL INTERNATIONAL INVESTMENTS INC.
Resident Agent: BUSINESS WORKS INC.
Business Address: 1603 MOWBRAY CT HENDERSON NV
President: STEVE RADFORD 120 BEACHWOOD TRAIL, MICHIBAN CITY ID
Secretary: JOHN CRANDELL 1452 BRAMFIELD CT, LAS VEGAS NV
Treasurer: DAVID DESORMEAU 1603 MOWBRAY CT, HENDERSON NV.
Incorporated On: July 10, 2003

STONEHENGE INC
Resident Agent: BUSINESS WORKS INC.
Business Address: 1603 MOWBRAY CT HENDERSON NV
President: DAVID DESORMEAU 1603 MOWBRAY CT, HENDERSON NV.
Secretary: DAVID DESORMEAU 1603 MOWBRAY CT, HENDERSON NV.
Treasurer: JON THIRIOT PO BOX 30234 , LAS VEGAS NV
Incorporated On: June 01, 2001

VI-COM HOLDING INC.
Resident Agent: BUSINESS WORKS INC.
Business Address: 1603 MOWBRAY CT HENDERSON NV
President: VICTOR CASAVANT 1603 MOWBRAY CT, HENDERSON NV.
Secretary: VICTOR CASAVANT 1603 MOWBRAY CT, HENDERSON NV.
Treasurer: BEVERLY CASAVANT 1603 MOWBRAY CT, HENDERSON NV.
Incorporated On: February 24, 2004

CASAVANT GOLF COMPANY
Resident Agent: DAVID DESORMEAU
Business Address: 1603 MOWBRAY CT HENDERSON NV
President: URBAN CASAVANT 30 PRINCIVILLE CT, LAS VEGAS NV.
Secretary: DAVID DESORMEAU 1603 MOWBRAY CT, HENDERSON NV.
Treasurer: DAVID DESORMEAU 1603 MOWBRAY CT, HENDERSON NV.
Incorporated On: January 06, 2003

EYECANDY ENTERTAINMENT INC.
Business Address: 1603 MOWBRAY CT HENDERSON NV
Resident Agent: DAVID DESORMEAU 3340 S TOPAZ #100, LAS VEGAS NV
President: JOHN D. GUZMAN 2519 PUTING GREEN DRIVE, HENDERSON NV
Secretary: DAVID DESORMEAU 1603 MOWBRAY CT, HENDERSON NV.
Treasurer: DAVID DESORMEAU 1603 MOWBRAY CT, HENDERSON NV.
Incorporated On: August 11, 1999

FRAUD CHARGES THAT HAVE BEEN FILED OS OF THIS DATE :
1. COMMONWEALTH OF KENTUCKY
NELSON CIRCUIT COURT
NO. ___03-CI-00190_____ http://www.law.state.ky.us/news/2003rel/wormComplaint.pdf

[/B]

---

posted July 06, 2004 16:51            

Where's Wallace? The new childrens book.

Wallace took the time to share this information with us at Allstocks:

"I have been trading securities since the 1960's"

-So pretty much what Wallace is trying to tell us is that he is as young as the Kimberlite CMKX is currently mining?!?!?

hehe... Wallace be carefull not to break that hip of yours... lol... (I can't resist).

Woe for Wallace when he see's one of those commericals that go, 'I've fallen, and I can't get up!'...

posted July 06, 2004 16:53            

Those of us that have traded pennies and pinks for quite some time have learned that, pinks especially, move more on emotion than DD and/or TA.

The best advice I have received from this board and it's members is this.... Get into a FREE share position while trading on the emotion of the penny market. After that, it doesn't really matter what the stock does.

Most of us that you are warning already have free shares and some profit to boot from CMKX.

Also, those that you are warning (the newbies) will make these mistakes in any penny stock.

There are different rules in pennyland, so you knowledge from Wall Street may be a good base, but mostly do not work in pennyland.

And yes, we heard you, we know you don't like this stock.

Welcome to pennies and pinkies.

posted July 06, 2004 16:56            

Now I know why I hate many Europeans...

posted July 06, 2004 16:58            

quote:

---

Originally posted by JBCak47:
...Thank you for taking your time to tell us about yourself.
...
-John

---

That post tells me volumes about the author... since when are MMs exclusive to OTC & pinks? Also, if he knew enough about them to know that they were jokes, wouldn't he know why?

If he's truly been around since the 60's, wouldn't a 'good' Wall Street person (especially a manager, as claimed) have tried to understand what the "new beast called NASDAQ" was all about? Just a thought....

BTW, Wallace.. if you're going to try to insult me, at least get it right. I'm not a pill-popping pharmacist, I'm a pill-pushing pharmacist. Also, we only have your word that you went to a reputable school, since you still failed to name it. I guess JB would be able to tear it apart if you named it. (again, volumes spoken)

However, it is so kind of you to concern yourself with the well-being of the CMKX shareholders. I can't believe that you spend your time looking out for them instead of researching stocks in which you could make serious profit. Your 'reputable' degree must include a minor in social services.

posted July 06, 2004 16:59            

"NO ONE CARRIER/ADVERTISER KNOW THIS COMPANY"

THERE IS A PR WITH A CONTRACT WITH TIME WARNER

We were shown on COMCAST AND COX CABLE, THOSE ARE THREE CARRIERS WHO HAVE HEARD OF US.

See, this guy really is an idiot...

Cox Cable of New Orleans.

COMCAST Cable of Washington...

BUT YES, NO ONE HAS HEARD OF US!!! IDIOT!

posted July 06, 2004 17:04            

quote:

---

Originally posted by richnessforeveryone:
rchaud....
Thousand, thousand, thousand thanks for your DD..........
You saved me a lot of hours for explain this to the dreamers here.......
Like you said....NEVER INVEST (AGAIN)IN PINKSHEET STOCKS......LOOK AT QBID.....NO ONE CARRIER/ADVERTISER KNOW THIS COMPANY
People must understand that MM's conspiracy and naked shorting is a dream.....
Pumper always use this theory for explain a low pps.
A pps reflect always the reality or do you think that MM's only short stocks ?????

---

Should I tell my accountant to give back the 10K profit I made on QBID because it was just a dream.

GET REAL!! Money can be made by playing the swings. Who ever said that we all were in these companies for life.

posted July 06, 2004 17:05            

quote:

---

Originally posted by justplayin:

Should I tell my accountant to give back the 10K profit I made on QBID because it was just a dream.

GET REAL!! Money can be made by playing the swings. Who ever said that we all were in these companies for life.

You people who don't think you can make money on pinks need to go back to the blue chips.

---

posted July 06, 2004 17:07            

quote:

---

Originally posted by JBCak47:
richness you IDIOT

"NO ONE CARRIER/ADVERTISER KNOW THIS COMPANY"

THERE IS A PR WITH A CONTRACT WITH TIME WARNER

We were shown on COMCAST AND COX CABLE, THOSE ARE THREE CARRIERS WHO HAVE HEARD OF US.

See, this guy really is an idiot...

Cox Cable of New Orleans.

COMCAST Cable of Washington...

BUT YES, NO ONE HAS HEARD OF US!!! IDIOT!

-John

---

posted July 06, 2004 17:10            

quote:

---

Originally posted by justplayin:

Should I tell my accountant to give back the 10K profit I made on QBID because it was just a dream.

GET REAL!! Money can be made by playing the swings. Who ever said that we all were in these companies for life.

You people who don't think you can make money on pinks need to go back to the blue chips.

---

posted July 06, 2004 17:13            

quote:

---

Originally posted by richnessforeveryone:
Like I said it many thimes....EVEN WITH A SCAM YOU CAN MAKE MONEY...but you take enormous risks like I know many people don't invested only a few $$$$ but thousands on them......burned money if yo don't sold at 0.001

---

And people buy lottery tickets. What's your point. Are you on the corner next to the party store telling them not to buy???

posted July 06, 2004 17:15            

quote:

---

Originally posted by justplayin:
And people buy lottery tickets. What's your point. Are you on the corner next to the party store telling them not to buy???

If an investor is not smart enough to not risk more than they can lose should they even play in pennyland?

---

posted July 06, 2004 17:41            

By the way Wallace if you so educated and experienced, then what are you doing in pinks.

And you still did not answer my simple question: Why you hate CMKX so much?

posted July 06, 2004 17:45            

quote:

---

Originally posted by TradingWizard:
I am queen of the jungle....any body want to see my resume...
I cannot believe I am getting myself into this mess.....

---

posted July 06, 2004 17:48            

quote:

---

Originally posted by justplayin:
Does it involve leopard skin?? LOL

---

Yes, and as a bonus you get the lion skin. Which one do you prefer, mama or papa skin? lol Just kiddin'!

posted July 06, 2004 17:53            

quote:

---

Originally posted by TradingWizard:
Yes, and as a bonus you get the lion skin. Which one do you prefer, mama or papa skin? lol Just kiddin'!

---

posted July 06, 2004 18:06            

The name of this thread takes ALL CREDIBILITY away from Rchaud or whatever his name is. You labeled yourself a paid basher the second you named this thread. Good job.

[This message has been edited by HarryHar (edited July 06, 2004).]

posted July 06, 2004 18:09            

quote:

---

Originally posted by TradingWizard:
Check your mail in the near future, putting on the stretcher as we write....lol Your invoice, is priceless.

---

Can I pay with diamonds??

posted July 06, 2004 18:24            

quote:

---

Originally posted by justplayin:
Can I pay with diamonds??

---

Oh dear, they are my best friend! Skin for diamond, best deal in a life time, so others get in while you can, because you will need many skins for such deal later!

posted July 06, 2004 19:31            

GUESS WHAT CMKX CLOSED AT .0004

QUICK TRY TO SPIN MORE LIES ON NAKED SHORTING BRINGING THE PRICE DOWN!! QUICK SAY IT WAS PART OF UC's MASTER PLAN!!!

NOT

Friday this stock will be testing .0003/.0002

posted July 06, 2004 19:33            

http://cmkx.proboards34.com/index.cgi?board=general&start=20

posted July 06, 2004 19:36            

A BASHERS HANDBOOK: know the enemy who wishes to steal your money! Do not underestimate a bashers influence on a stock. The Pro's are good at what they do and what they do is profit from your losses. Below is their "hand-book" so to speak. Learn from it or donate your money to those who make an organized plan to steal your money!

BASHERS DO THE FOLLOWING:
1. Be anonymous
2. Use 10% fact. 90% suggestion. The facts will lend credibility to your suggestions.
3. Let others help you learn about the stock. Build rapport and a support base before initiating your bashing routine.
4. Enter w/ humor and reply to all who reply to you.
5. Use multiple ISP's, handles and aliases.
6. Use two (2) or more aliases to simulate a discussion.
7. Do not start with an all out slam of the stock. Build to it.
8. Identify your foes (hypsters) and the boards "guru" Use them to your advantage. Lead them do not follow their lead.
9. Only bash until the tide/momentum turns. Let doubt carry it the rest of the way.
10. Give the appearance of being open minded.
11. Be bold in your statements. People follow strength.
12. Write headlines in caps with catchy statements.
13. Pour it on as your position gains momentum. Not your personality.
14. Don't worry about being labeled a "basher". Newbies won't know your history.
15. When identified put up a brief fight, then back off. Return in an hour unless your foe is a weak in reasoning powers.
16. Your goal is to limit the momentum of the run. Not to tank the company or create a plunge in the stock; be subtle and consistent.
17. Kill the dreams of profits, not the company or the stock.
18. Use questions to create critical thinking. Statements to reinforce facts.
19. DO NOT LIE, DO NOT NAME CALL and DO NOT USE PROFANITY.
20. Encourage people to call the company. 99% won't. They'll take your word for claims made. If they do call you can always find something that is inaccurate in how they report their findings.
21. Discourage people for taking the companies word for anything. Encourage them to call the company. They won't out of laziness.
22. If the companies history/PR's are negative constantly point to that. Compile a list of this data prior to beginning your efforts.
23. If the price rises blame it on the hype or the PR, temporary mass reaction, the market, etc. Anything but the stock itself.
24. If other posters share your concerns, play on that and share theirs too.
25. Always cite low volume, even when it's not.
26. Three or four aliases can dominate a board and wear down the longs.
27. Bait the hypsters into personal debates putting their focus/efforts on you and not the stock or facts. Divert their attention from facts. Show them the facts from a "different angle."
28. Promote other stocks that would-be investors can turn to instead of the one your bashing.
30. Do not fall for challenges on the "values" of what you are doing, it's a game and you are playing it with your own rules.

GRADE YOUR FAVORITE BASHER:

Advanced Basher:
Will join the message board early and actually "pump" the stock with positives; this basher is very intelligent, has the facts of the company, actually helps longs with Due Diligence and generally gets the confidence of the stockholders. Then, when the stock hits their price, the tone will change and they will start asking longs to check into this and check into that. The seeds of doubt are being planted. This basher will then start using all the tactics listed on this page to create seeds of doubt. ALWAYS LOOK AT THE PROFILE OF A PERSON YOU SUSPECT. ASK WHAT STOCKS THEY'VE "SUPPORTED" IN THE PAST AND CHECK OUT THE MESSAGE BOARD. An honest person will have a positive track record that can be followed. I strongly believe that a contrary view is needed but this person is out to steal your money and does it by deception and creates fear after gaining confidence! BEWARE, this is the most clever basher and the hardest to spot.

Grade A Basher:
Posts lots of old news, responds to all positive posts with a negative side. Never responds to being called a basher, never posts on another board. Can spend up to 80 hours a week bashing a stock.

Grade B Basher:
Very good way with words, always claims to be your "friend" taking the positive poster into confidence, never posts on another board, spends about 60 hours a week.

Grade C Basher:
Spends less time than the others but is somewhat effective and gets a C grade due to getting excited when bashers rules say not to get excited, spends about 40 hours a week.

Grade D Basher:
Needs to learn the basics about being convincing when making a negative statement. Spends a good amount of time working the stock, maybe 20 hours a week. Grade F Basher: A complete idiot, most readers are not convinced he knows anything about stocks in general. The type that says a stock "sucks", but gives no rationale, shows up every so often but no regular schedule.

WHY BASH?: MONEY (the usual reason), SPORT, ENTERTAINMENT. Some bashers are compelled to bash because they are inherently a part of the dark side of life so they must do it. It's a sad fact but never the less, a fact. It's life so you must learn how to deal with it or become a victim!

LEARN ABOUT HOW BASHERS WORK: how they are paid: (this was written by a basher) I know the following from a "friend" who needed extra money. I never answer a basher directly because I then become a basher's little money machine.
IGNORE THEM FOLKS...how bashers are paid: When you REPLY to bashers you give them an opportunity to earn 5-7 bucks. The service agreement they enter into with their employer states their messages will be monitored for content, profanity, lies, etc. but Money Manager's and the like don't have the time to check all their bashers messages. Only occasional spot checks are done. Those who manage the basher will generally read the headlines to see if a basher is replying to other posters by name. That tells them the basher isn't just "posting blindly" or repeating the same message over and over since they won't pay for those. A basher will attempt to milk three to five replies per post at one to two dollars each. This way the basher spreads negative influence to as many stockholders as possible. A basher will create this discussion thread because it takes less time reading more messages than is necessary. This ultimately allows the basher more time to post and make money. In general, NEVER ENGAGE A BASHER. Make them read all the posts and think up ways to enter the discussion.

NEVER ENGAGE A BASHER; if you do so then YOU BECOME THE BASHER'S AID! Read the news ,do your own homework and make your own decisions. Get real time quotes and follow the stock for a couple of weeks. Due Diligence is key here. Know that there will be a time when the stock runs up which will be followed by the Bashers and those that missed the boat. The bashers will trash the stock by saying such things as "it's a Pump and Dump" and "the company is lying" and deceiving. There goal is to scare off newbies and potential new investors by "shaking" you out of your shares. Take the time to confirm your DD ,trust your own judgment and believe in yourself, pick your point of return or loss and live with it. Don't listen to hype or bashers trust your own judgment. Live by the rules you have created .

BASHER TESTIMONIAL and APOLOGY: found on Internet: 03/23/2000

"I would just like to confirm that it is true, there are companies that pay to have people post negatively on stock message boards. It is more in the area of $20-$25 per post for top performers though. How do I know? I was one. And I got bonuses when my company made exceptional gains. And it's 100% legal!

The fact is that there are so many green daytraders out there that look to these boards for advice and twice as many scammers that....well.....get the point?

My advice is to listen to people that rarely post but do sound intelligent (the ones that post negative stuff all the time are trying to manipulate the market and are probably paid to do it). And most importantly! Read News Releases! and research their impact on that stock.

posted July 06, 2004 19:39            

member is offline

Email PM

Posts: 72

Re: No PR = ZERO Credibility...!!
« Reply #45 on: Today at 1:32pm »
How's this for proof of some kind of a TA problem...??

From Ameritrade...
We recently received your request to have a certificate issued for the CMKM DIAMONDS INC currently held in your account. However, we are unable to process your request at this time. We have received notification that the shares are nontransferable. The transfer agent for this company is not currently printing certificates for this security.

If the security is no longer trading and you wish to remove the position from your account you may request to sell the entire position to Ameritrade for a sum totaling one dollar. A commission of no more than the current broker-assisted rate will be charged for the transaction. This transaction will generate a trade confirmation and will be irreversible.

To begin the processing, the "Request for Removal of a Non-marketable Security" form will need to be completed and signed by all account holders and received by Ameritrade. The form may be faxed to 816-243-3769, or mailed to Ameritrade at 1005 North Ameritrade Place, Bellevue, NE, 68005. You will find this form on the Ameritrade Web site under Miscellaneous Forms

I am also still waiting for a reply from Ameritrade about who the current TA is.

posted July 06, 2004 19:41            

PUMP & DUMP vs SHORT & DISTORT
Most traders have heard and read of the Pump & Dump scheme. But very little has been written about the other side of the trade or its opposite, which is the Short & Distort.

Lets take the Short & Distort scheme and apply it to the rules of Pump & Dump for stock manipulators.

In order to make these market manipulations work, the professionals assume:

(a) The Public is STUPID and
(b) The Public will mainly buy at the HIGH and
(c) The Public will sell at the LOW.

Therefore, as long as the market manipulator can run crowd control, he can be successful in his agenda of stock manipulation by controlling the market's greed and fear.

STAGES FOR THE DEADLY ART OF STOCK MANIPULATION
The Pump & Dump Scheme
Stage 1: The Acquisition of shares.
Please note: all sharp price movements, whether up or down, are the result of one or more, usually a group, professionals manipulating the share price.

(Loading): In stage I of a Pump & Dump scheme Manipulators after acquiring their shares leak information and pump the stock to get buyers silently. This leads to front loading also.

Stage 2: The Promotional Campaign!
Note: this is designed to spread a rumor/story and to play on the emotional greed of a pie in the sky find. It begins to spread across the financial world. Joe public rushes in not to miss the next gold rush.
(PUMP/Greed) Newsletter writers are hired -- either secretly or not -- to cheerlead a stock. PR firms are hired and let loose upon an unsuspecting public. Contracts to appear on radio talk shows are signed and implemented. An advertising campaign is rolled out (television ads, newspaper ads, card deck mailings, e-mails, etc.).

The company signs up to exhibit at "investment conferences" and "shows" (mainly so they can get a little "podium time" to hype their stock and tell you how "their company is really different" and "not a stock promotion.") Funny little "hype" messages are posted on Internet newsgroups. BTW the more, the merrier. 1000% returns are projected.

Stage 3: The infamous DUMP!
(DUMP) The once low volume that caused a bit of a spike suddenly changes to big volume. The stock manipulators sell out their positions into the new buying brought on by the promotion campaign.

Stage 4: The Silence or News Vacuum!
(Silence) No more news or insider leaks of information to pump the stock to get buyers. The front loading sells out. The silence plays on the emotional fear of being hoodwinked. Negative opinions begin to spread across the financial world. Joe public sells out to cut their losses. The really slick market manipulators would even seed the Internet news groups or other journalists to plant negative stories about that company. Or start a propaganda campaign of negative rumors on all available communication vessels.

Stage 5: The Distortion!
(Gone/Waiting/Shorting):

Stage 6: The Accumulation!
(Gone/Waiting/Buying): If the manipulator sees an opportunity the stock is on the floor and not part of the Short & Distort campaign they will begin buying back and slowly accumulating. As the Shorters were shorting the first manipulator was selling, so now it goes the other way. Buying to put pressure on the shorter to cover. Accumulation by new investors and averaging down of old investors are leads to the pressure on the short.

STAGES FOR THE DEADLY ART OF STOCK MANIPULATION
The Short & Distort Scheme

Stage I: Monitoring
In stage I of a Short & Distort scheme Short groups Monitor spikes in volumes on stocks with no rumors.

Stage 2: Flagging
Shorts Flag stocks that run up then sits back and wait patiently for their time.

Stage 3: Preparation
The Shorters research the company and develop their Distortion of the rumors to be used later.

Stage 4: Actual Shorting
The shorts step in selling on every possible up tick. This is the Reverse of front loading. Preparations are made to attack the guy who had earlier written positively about the company and take out, discredit, any new long-term champions or messengers.

Stage 5: Distortion Campaign
The shorts step in and increase selling on every possible up tick. Just as with the pump, newsletters, e-mail, PR firms against P & D, etc. are simulated. Expertise in the field is recruited for credibility. Any possible twist using POS (Purposely Omitted Syntax) and PAS (Purposely Added Syntax) is conveniently used on every possible angle. If the POS/PAS is discovered then attack the messenger. Above all control the message boards.

The group clutters the message boards so no positive information can be readily found. Justification is the Value of the Company in the market. Projections of $0.00 worth and loss projections of 100%

Note: The market manipulator will do everything in his/her power to keep buyers OUT OF THE STOCK. Cut your losses is touted to stimulate fear. You bought higher but now they need you to sell lower.

Stage 6: Pressure
The shorts have taken it too far. The volume is increasing and the price is not effectively dropping. A stalemate occurs. Personal attacks increase. Threats of legal action, SEC involvement, and yes even death threats increase. Increased secret IDs are employed to increase the cluttering, personal attacks and the distortion. So begins a string of lies that run for as long as one's stomach can take it. Desperately playing on the "you have been had" scenario. Any new news will be hit it hard by shorters to kill any interest.

Note: Watch the volume not the share price. A market manipulator will have various brokers buying and selling the stock to give the APPEARANCE of increasing volume but the price goes down. Thus stimulating the story the company is selling or an off shore reg S or other convenient scenario. Watch for large blocks that show up but have a MM special code, cross overs, etc.

Stage 7: The Cover
Without warning the buying pressure is too much and the short begins to cover. Short covering combined with new investors buying into the stock causes the stock to go up. Often the whole thing starts again. Just a vicious cycle sometimes.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note: Pump & Dump schemes I have seen are investigated by the SEC most of the time, however the Short & Distort scheme is not apparently high on the SEC's agenda. The shorts, unlike the dumper though, has an unlimited loss factor should the stock price go up.
Remember this is just our personal opinion. Check with a licensed financial professional on all matters of the stock market.

Credit for post to Ga Bard

posted July 06, 2004 19:47            

Shorts on Message Boards
Do you even know how "shorts" work ? They bet that a stock will go down,just like you bet a stock will go up. Now a year ago when I asked broker friends of mine if the internet message boards will have any affect on a stock. They ALL laughed at me and said those idiots having an affect on a stock !
Well I asked those same friends this last week, and the answer from all YES! message boards and "shorts"(some) can manipulate with lies, and deceit. Let me tell you what I have seen on two different boards .

One stock was $8 and a "pack" of shorts come on and posted total lies about SEC violations,and "class action lawsuits".There was 15-20 of these manipulating "shorts". The stock went from $8 to $6 overnight without cause -just these manipulating "packs" posting total lies.

Another board I had seen about 15 months ago had a bunch of "regulars" on the board. Problem was these "regulars" were the nicest bunch of mostly elderly people you would want to know and talk with. The stock was about $18 and then came "the pack" of shorts. There were again 15-20 of them. They got the elderly so scared that they would not fight and just stopped posting. Thus leaving the board totally to these manipulating "shorts".

The stock went from $18 to $10 without reason just lies posted by these liars. Do you understand a little now? Let me say this to you and I want you and the whole board to think about this statement.

IT IS EASIER TO SCARE PEOPLE INTO SELLING THAN IT IS TO SCARE PEOPLE INTO BUYING A STOCK.

Now think about that, you have elderly that invest and find their way to the message boards only to see false posts about "SEC Violations" and "Class action suits" or you have a Yuppie with a kid to put in college going to these message boards only to see posts by 15-20 (probably 5 or 6 under alias) "pack of shorts" posting the same false stuff about SEC Violations or lawsuits or "there's bad news coming out" ....what do you think they will do ?

Let me ask you people who don't like my attacking back ways, language etc... Do you think for that elderly person and that Yuppie with the college kid -that it would be easier to take the money out of the stock with these rumors and put the money back into the bank? Another question :do you think it is easier to take money out of the bank and invest it into stock....or easier to take the money out of the stock and put it back into a safe bank ?

It's easier to sell the stock and put the money into the bank for nervous people like the elderly and the Yuppie who needs college funds.

THAT'S WHO THE PACK OF SHORTS PRAY ON AND DEPEND ON.

They bet on a stock to go down-not up! . Understand? And they have just as much money and risk as you. But they have the edge of fear, lies, falsehoods to post and pray on the nervous. Longs don't have that.

Credit for post to skidiver3

posted July 06, 2004 19:51            

I was an OTC MM for about 10 years ending in the late 80's. Since then I have been strictly an investor. Since I have not been that up to date in MM rules I will only make statements that I feel fairly confident are still accurate regarding these activities. By and large most MM don't have a clue nor do they care to learn, about the fundamentals of the stocks they trade.

They just try to make orderly markets. When dealing with BB stocks it is very easy for a MM to get trapped into being short in dealing in a fast moving market. Reason being; most of the MM's in this stock are what are called "wholesalers" this means they don't have retail brokers "working" the stocks.

So they have to rely on what's known as the "call" from larger retail houses. If a "Big" retail firm like an E-trade calls up a market maker to purchase say 5,000 shares of a stock, they expect to get an "execution" from that market maker. If he turns them down, or only gives a partial then the "Big" firm will go to another MM.

If this second MM "fills the order" then that "Big" firm has a moral obligation to continue to give future "business" in that stock to that MM who performed (his life blood). This will go on until he "fails" to perform and so on.

Contrary to popular opinion the "Big" firms Do NOT neccessarily go to the "Low Offer" to fill a buy order (Or high bid for a sell). They "Go" to who they think will perform to fill the order and expect that MM to "match" the "low offer" in the case of a buy (bid in the case of a sell). Even though this MM might in fact be the "high bid" and not really want to sell any more.

As a wholesaler he must perform or he will get a reputation as a "non-performer" with the "Big" houses and will cease getting "calls" which means he will soon go out of business. I mentioned above that this activity is very significant to BB stocks. I say this because most of the trades in these BB stocks are "unsolicited" and are done through discount houses.

With the above groundwork laid, let me try to explain how market makers get short even if they like the Company; Lets say that a stock (shell) has been lying quietly at $.25 bid $.50 offered. A limit order comes into one of the MM's to Buy at $.50 for a thousand shares. Prior to this trade that MM may be "flat" (neither long or short any shares). He fills the order and is now short 1,000 shares. He may raise his bid hoping to find a seller to "flatten" out his position. But before he realizes it a wave of buyers have come in and cleared out all the $.50 offers. Now the stock is $.50 bid .75 offered. Here comes that "Big" firm he just sold the 1,000 shares to at .50 with another bid for 1000 at .75. He makes this print. Now he is short 2,000 at an average of .625. The market keeps moving and now its .75 bid 1.00 offered. Now he has to make a decision.

Just like investors, MM Hate to take a loss. So 9 times out of 10 he will now sell 2000 at 1.00 making him short 4000 but with an average .81. At this time he would love to see a seller at .75 so he can cover his short and make a few bucks.

But instead the market keeps moving up. Now it is 1.00 to 1.25 and here comes the buyer again at 1.25. He doesn't want to lose the call so now he needs to sell 4,000 at 1.25 to keep his break even point above the bid. Now he is short 8,000. Market moves up to 1.25 bid 1.50 offer here comes the buyer now he feels he must sell 8000 here because "stocks don't go up forever".

Now he is short 16,000. And so on and so on. If the stock keeps moving up, before he realizes it he could be short 50k or 100k shares (depending how big his bank is).

Finally the market closes for the day and on paper he may look all right in that his "break even" price may be around the closing price. But now he has to figure out how to entice sellers so he can cover this short. It is important to note that if this happened to one MM it has probably happened to most all of them.

Some ways MM's entice sellers; Run the stock up with a "tight spread" in a fast market, then "open" up the spread to slow down the buying interest. After it has "cooled off" for a little while lower the offer below the last trade right after a small piece trades on the offer then tighten the spread so that the sellers feel they can take a "quick profit" by "hitting the bid" on the tight spread.

Once the selling starts the MM's will walk it down quickly by only making small prints on the way down with the tight spread. Another way is by running the stock up in the morning, averaging up their short then use the above technique to walk it down in the afternoon.

Hopefully after doing this for several days, it will demoralize the buyers. The volume will dry up and the sellers will materialize thinking that the game is over.

Contrary to popular opinion, MM usually Do Not Cover in Fast moving markets either Up or Down if they are short. They Short More. They usually try to cover after the frenzy is out of the market. There are many other techniques they use but the above are the most popular.

This technique works about 9 times out of 10 particularly in a BB market. However that is because 9 out of 10 BB stocks are BS. Remember what I said above. Most MM's don't have a clue as to the value of a Company until they get trapped. If the Company has solid fundementals and a bright future. Then the stock will do very well. And the activity that caused the situation will prove to even help the future stock activity because it created an audience."

Copied from Raging Bull Board (Cardshark_1999)

posted July 06, 2004 20:22            

Getting Started

1. Determine and set your investment goals: Are you a short, medium, or long term investor?

2. Determine how much money you are willing to lose: This may sound backwards because you are investing to make money not to lose money, but it is important to allocate your capital into controlled risk segments (High, Medium, Low). Depending on your investment goals, it is important that you predetermine how much capital you plan on using to invest in risky investments. In other words, don't invest your food money. Be smart and invest according to your means not your dreams.

3. Research which online brokerage you want to use and open an account: Look at what each online brokerage has to offer. All are unique and each offers something different. And remember, sometimes costs of trading are not the only factor. Look at the quality of customer service as the key factor as well as the speed of transactions.

4. Do your 'due diligence': Talk to Analysts, Management, and other investors. Read the company's quarterly and annual reports. Check the public fillings. Know what you are investing in. This is what separates an investor from a daytrader.

5. Ignore external noises such as bashers, hypsters, and sometimes the media: If you have done your 'due diligence' and you know what you are investing in, you will find that others may not agree with you or may agree with you all to well. Never invest with your emotions. Invest with facts.

6. Make your trade: Congratulations you are now an investor.

7. Set target sell and/or average down prices: It's important to set goals for your investments so you don't get emotional when your investment rockets up or drops down in value.

8. Keep to your targets: Never look back. If you sell and the investment goes up, don't punish yourself. If you buy and the investment goes down, don't punish yourself. If you did your due diligence and you made some money or will make some money in the near future, why worry? Only adjust your targets if new positive or negative circumstances arise which will obvious change the value of your investments.

9. Remember, fear and greed rule the market: Yes facts and figures are important, but emotions rule the investors mindset. The question is, will you let it rule your mindset?

10. Take the weekends off: Don't look at your portfolio or the markets on the weekends, it'll drive you crazy. You can't buy or sell on the weekends, so worrying about your portfolio when you should be relaxing will only make you nervous about your investments. Kick back and relax on the weekends!

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Monitoring Stock Message Boards

Scammers are usually new to the chat board. They usually sign up specifically to bash or hype that investment. Sometimes there will be a long time basher or hypster, but this is rare.
Scammers usually cross promote other investments. Bashers usually attack one investment and promote another one as being better or the real thing. Hypsters usually hype one investment and hype several others along with it to the board they are hyping on.
Scammers usually pretend to be someone or something they are not. They usually claim to be in the investment industry, a friend of someone in the company, or sometimes they gender switch.
Scammers appear to be strong. People listen to strong minded people and people who appear to be intelligent. Scammers try to portray themselves are strong people who are in the know.
Scammers usually encourage investors to call the company. After making bold statements, scammers will tell the investors on the chat board to call the company because investors will rarely call the company. Since no one actually verifies the statement made by the basher or hypster the statement is taken as the truth. And even if the statement is verified or disapproved by another poster, the board is still left confused because they cannot verify that that someone actually called. It becomes an endless circle of confusion.
Scammers rarely hype or bash a good stock. Solid blue chip stocks usually have few chat board posts. Scammers only go after stocks that are stagnant or moving relatively with stocks with true potential. Penny stocks (stocks less than $1) attract scammers.
Scammers usually use humour to get their points across. They usually post silly jokes about the company or post pictures which make fun of the company.
Scammers usually use events to bash or hype. They wait for something to happen within the company and twist the event to fit their bash or hype.
Scammers always bring up the same positive or negative news over and over again, even months after the initial news release.
Scammers post multiple times during the day. They comment on every post and answer every question. They try to control the board. Real investors are usually at busy with work, friends, or family, not posting on a chat board from dusk to dawn, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
Scammers will outright lie. Most companies aren't perfect, but bashers will take a company's mistake and exaggerate it's cause and effect on the operations of the company. Hypsters will take a company's partnership or deals and make over aggressive predictions for the potential revenue for the company.
Scammers usually make statements which cannot be verified. Bashers usually claim to know "something" about the company or management. Hypsters usually make claims of a "big deal" coming soon.
Scammers usually play on investors lack of knowledge and laziness. People who read chat boards for information usually do so to pick up quick and easy due diligence research. Unfortunately, some investors begin to rely too much on the chat board's validity and stop doing their own research.
Scammers use emotions to their advantage. Fear and greed are the tools of a hypster and basher. Hypsters want you to buy so "you don't miss out on the big returns". Bashers want you to sell so "you don't loss all your money". Hypsters and bashers try to break down your pre-set investment objectives and goals by attacking your fear and greed elements.
Scammers work in groups. Bashers and hypsters usually have multiple aliases or associates who work towards a single objective. Sometimes they all follow the same line of thought. Sometimes they play "good cop, bad cop" and attack each other points in order to finally "prove" that one of the views are right.
Some scammers are actually paid to bash or hype. Investing is a serious business where returns can balloon with the right whisper. In some cases, bashers and hypsters are paid by those interested in the investment to further their goals. Beware of posters who seems to have nothing else to do but to post all day on a stock chat board.
When all else fails, a scammer will usually resort to personal attacks against the other posters. Personal attacks usually make the chat board messy and unappealing. For bashers, it usually drives away investors and gives them a bad impression of the company. For hypsters, it may drive away the real investor who likes to post both sides of the story (not bashing or hyping) in order to discuss the pros and cons of the investment. It may also turn intelligent investors into personal attackers themselves, making them look bad as well.