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Art Member	posted January 05, 2005 12:37 quote: Originally posted by thinkmoney: Also, i know there are angels but angels cant be explained scientifucally. angels or some good force........ Art: Yes, apparations do exist and can influence matter via quantum computation (thought). This sometimes can be good influences (angels) as well as bad (demons). Apparitions have been observed to assist people as well as attack people, physically, but normally just appear without acknowledging living people at all. This can be demonstrated in the lab by a phenomena called a quantum mirage, as well as by demonstrations of psychokinesis (mind over matter). IP: Logged
Art Member	posted January 05, 2005 12:42 quote: Originally posted by Kate: I'm sorry, but I don't believe in reincarnation! If it were true, we would be perfect by now, and have no problems, instead of everything continuing to get worse! We have only one life to live, according to God's Word! Ian Stevenson, a psychiatrist who does research at the Univ. of Virginia, has written several books about his research into reincarnation. For instance, the case of Shanti Devi was investigated many years ago. Shanti Devi was born in Delhi in 1926. When she was four years old she made a startling declaration to her family: "This is not my real home! I have a husband and a son in Mathura! I must return to them!" The young girl was able to provide many details of her past life, including descriptions of her previous home and family in Mathura. At the prompting of Mahatma Gandhi, a team of researchers was put together to examine her claims. According to reincarnation expert Dr. Ian Stevenson, Shanti Devi's past life memories matched the facts uncovered by the panel's investigation. Swedish journalist, Sture Lonnerstrand, also looked into the case of Shanti Devi. After an extensive investigation he concluded, "This is the only fully explained and proven case of reincarnation there has been." IP: Logged
thinkmoney Member	posted January 05, 2005 12:42 I think pain is both, physical or emotional. suffering is holding on..living in past... In nothing all is created...non-material is included in my nothing but expanded. When you break down physicl material., most is empty space... anyways, think as you want. As a man thinketh , he is... Thought is energy and creates. Your thoughts are your reality and possibly delusional. I say that because you come from a position of rigidity and I no longer care to continue your delusion. I quest for knowledge and after being exposed your thoughts, dispose of them and only retain those that are true for me........... You must be a man, where all has to be computed... IP: Logged
Art Member	posted January 05, 2005 14:22 thinkmoney: I think pain is both, physical or emotional. suffering is holding on..living in past...In nothing all is created...non-material is included in my nothing but expanded. When you break down physicl material., most is empty space... anyways, think as you want. As a man thinketh , he is... Art: Only 4 percent of the universe is matter. Most is empty and non-physical: dark matter and dark renergy. The term empty only aplies to matter - the non-material is infinite, without space or time, and simultaneously empty and full, no where and every where. thinkmoney: Thought is energy and creates. Art: Thought regulates energy but not by energy emanations. Poltergist activity is an example. The brain could move mountains but not be generating the energy to do so. It would all be done by generating thought that could play a sufficient influence in universal quantum computation. thinkmoney: Your thoughts are your reality and possibly delusional. Art: Your thoughts create your experience, but this may be real or not. The psychotic's experince is not mine, and yours is not mine - which is why we disagree. IP: Logged
Kate Member	posted January 05, 2005 14:57 You just previously stated, that demons exist! They have always existed! Demons also want us to believe things that aren't true! The people who believe they have been reincarnated, are being oppressed or possessed by demons, or angels of light, which come from satan, and THEY are the ones giving them the thoughts of past lives! satan will do anything, to make people think that they don't need God! That includes impersonating someone that we loved, and has died! They can't read our thoughts, but they can implant them! Oh yes, I believe in ghosts, but I don't believe they are who they seem! They are another of satans tools, to keep souls from knowing Jesus, and going to heaven someday! Also, since I've seen physical miracles, like people being healed, etc, with my own eyes, 'no scientific explanation needed or possible' and have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, I will keep praying for you! IP: Logged
thinkmoney Member	posted January 05, 2005 15:08 Where do you get your information? Or how did you acquire your knowledge? I find some fascinating but some too computational oriented. I dont think anyone has the answers but thought moves energy and ideas you expressed are in the collective psyche. what works for me is when I see creation in progress. When I feel closer to god the more apparent is creation. For example, I know my hair will turn blonde, if I know it, i feel it will regardless of any logical explanations. This example is outlandish but used for illustration. I also use my awareness to create but let go because the universe will do better than me and I often am astonished how this works. At one point, being fixed gave frustration but having intent and letting go is astonishing when you see the results. anyways, your input is appreciated because some ideas i share but I interpret differently. IP: Logged
Upside Member	posted January 05, 2005 16:45 Interesting thread here. In my younger days I used to have thoughts like these too.... but then I quit taking windowpane. IP: Logged
Art Member	posted January 05, 2005 17:50 thinkmoney: Where do you get your information? Or how did you acquire your knowledge? I find some fascinating but some too computational oriented. Art: The material world is descrete and thus can be described mathematically or conceptually (math is based in logic). Any ontological discussion of the material world has to be computational (logical and empirical). Any theory of the non-material (dark matter and energy) ontological basis of the material, has to be in logical terms, but based on inference and induction from observations and knoweledge of the material. This enables us to think and communicate logically about a non-material existence that is not logical. We can thus talk of a timeless and spaceless dimension, where an event is simultaneously no where and everywhere, but we use logical terms like 'time' and 'space' and 'where' event in a way that is illogical. We never abandon conmputational thought even when talking about things not subject to computation. My language is logical, though based on speculative inferences and inductions from a knowledge of quantum and psychic/paranormal events. Your language is poetic, and poetry is logic adulterated by distorted (delusional bordering) thought. Kate's religious thinking is more overtly delusional. Both yours and Kate's ideas have some partial validity, and more importantly, have heuristic value - they provide you with meaning in trying to understand life and are therefore useful. thinkmoney...I dont think anyone has the answers but thought moves energy and ideas you expressed are in the collective psyche. Art: Again, if thought gave off energy to make things happen, we could measure it in some way. Thought can sometimes regulate non-material (dark) energy that can be communicated in the material, but thought does not send out energy to objects to move them - it can sometime move them via information communications at the basis of matter. The basis of existence is information (data), generated in universal quantum communication, that underlies material events. thinkmoney: what works for me is when I see creation in progress. When I feel closer to god the more apparent is creation. For example, I know my hair will turn blonde, if I know it, i feel it will regardless of any logical explanations. This example is outlandish but used for illustration. Art: No matter how much you know or feel your hair will turn blonde it will only do so if your thought can influence the universal quantum computation sufficiently to cause it to do so. Some (rare) people can move objects at times. One case (John Becker) had it rain on him and his immediate are at times - indoors. Real water fell and no one knew where it came from. Plotergeist activity of object moving is well recorded. Mind ove matter is possible, but extremely rare. Control of behavior, attitudes and feelings, by the way you think, is available to anyone (though some understanding of how to do it is needed), and as you have stated, can alleviate suffering. There is no denying the power of positive thinking. IP: Logged
Kate Member	posted January 05, 2005 18:53 Doesn't Art, sound just like Spock? Totally logical, without human emotions! IP: Logged
glassman Member	posted January 05, 2005 19:26 so Kate as you were re-reading, did you detect my sarcasm? Art, back to the pulses? if the universe is binary and it is destroyed and re-created over and over where is the data stored? IP: Logged
glassman Member	posted January 05, 2005 19:57 quote: Originally posted by Kate: Doesn't Art, sound just like Spock? Totally logical, without human emotions! Kate, in Art's defense? (not that he can't defend himself) my deduction is that Art is actually so in tune with "reality" that he is forced to "defend" himself by being this way... remember he stated that everything is connected? that is correct...everything is connected, and if one does not set up filters, one becomes "paralysed" by the amount of data one receives. as far as re-incarnation? it is optional.....a kind God would allow for this IP: Logged
Art Member	posted January 05, 2005 21:12 quote: Originally posted by glassman: so Kate as you were re-reading, did you detect my sarcasm? Art, back to the pulses? if the universe is binary and it is destroyed and re-created over and over where is the data stored? The present is the atomically constituted hologram that represents the interference precipitate of the past and future. The past is stored, and the multiverse future is generated as wave encoded in the basic vibrations of existence, perhaps as strings. These vibrations serve as data points in quantum computation, where simultaneous processing occurs. Past vibrations, of all past material universes, merge with vibrations computed as future possibilites, to produce a material present in a pulse on. Not only the past, but the future, can be brought into a present, on a limited encapsulated basis, to produce excursions into the past or from the future. See Jenny Randles book, Time Storms. IP: Logged
glassman Member	posted January 05, 2005 21:25 so the quantum wave never FULLY collapses? if so i misunderstood. my interpretation is that we are just unable to perceive the tensor(vector squared)..... we are only able to verify/perceive vectors... that is what i meant by never being "off"...so the hologram is never really pulsing, it is we who are pulsing...... [This message has been edited by glassman (edited January 05, 2005).] IP: Logged
Art Member	posted January 05, 2005 21:33 quote: Originally posted by Kate: Doesn't Art, sound just like Spock? Totally logical, without human emotions! My depth of emotion likely surpasses that of anyone on this forum. I write beautiful love poems, and yes, I donate to the Salvation Army sending money by mail to them on aregular basis. However, I don't let need or emotion intrude into my ideas of reality, such as what exists and how it is processed. My emotion is expressed creatively, not in my scientific ideas. IP: Logged
Art Member	posted January 05, 2005 22:32 quote: Originally posted by glassman: so the quantum wave never FULLY collapses? if so i misunderstood. my interpretation is that we are just unable to perceive the tensor(vector squared)..... we are only able to verify/perceive vectors... that is what i meant by never being "off"...so the hologram is never really pulsing, it is we who are pulsing...... [This message has been edited by glassman (edited January 05, 2005).] Collapase of the wave function represents the actualization of one among possible collapses. The possibilities are subatomic state possibities where the collpase is the state actualized. The possibilities, in uncollapsed superposition, are the future - the multiverse. The collpase is the material present of one possibility that is actualized in the wave function collapse. The past is all wave function collapses, all actualized states, that have ever occurred as material presents. Vibrations, or waves, carry data. Phase of a wave is a function of frequency and amplitiude which carry data. The brain perceives sound or visual waves in a holographic domain, while the eye or ear transform this data like a lens focuses on film, in sensation. This data is then transformed back in phase encoded data, and memory stored. The data is retrieved and transformed from holographic memory stored form, to focused form, in memory reconstruction. See Karl Pribrum. The point is that waves or vibrations carry data, and the interference of this precipitated data is the result of a data computational process. The pulse on is hologramic interference which precipitates the material present. Between such pulses is the pulse off in which nothing material exists, and the new future is merging with the past to produce a new present. The quantum leap is the jump from one pulse on to another pulse on - the electron does not move continuously from one orbit to another, it dissappears from one orbit and simultaneously reappears in another orbit - teleported in fact. It makes a leap from one descrete position to another. Everything moves in such descrete steps - things only appear to move continuously in a smooth motion. IP: Logged
glassman Member	posted January 05, 2005 22:35 quote: Originally posted by Upside: Interesting thread here. In my younger days I used to have thoughts like these too.... but then I quit taking windowpane. well i guess i should be insulted upside....after all i am the glassman kookookachoo IP: Logged
glassman Member	posted January 05, 2005 22:54 so we still come back to same basic issue... if i close my eyes is the universe/multiverse gone? NO the law conservation of energy prohibits that.. i suggest that we are still missing the basic building block of the universe...whatever it is that makes space up... like a fish that doesn't know it's in water.... obviously electrons can interect DIRECTLY with this building block...... when i said that we (humans) are thinking in vectorsas opposed to tensors, i mean this....light waves are not just up and down, they are spiral.......it's more dimensions IP: Logged
Bob Frey Member	posted January 05, 2005 23:02 " Einstein's Dreams " Great little book ... IP: Logged
glassman Member	posted January 05, 2005 23:08 Einstein supposedly destroyed some of his work in this direction because of the implications.... basically the implications are that the universe is harmonious..... his relativity theories do a good job as far as they go, but they do not do a good job of explaining the here and NOW...just what was and what will be.... now, if we can just come up with that monitor that has tomorrows trades on it [This message has been edited by glassman (edited January 05, 2005).] IP: Logged
Art Member	posted January 05, 2005 23:16 glassman: so we still come back to same basic issue... if i close my eyes is the universe/multiverse gone? NO the law conservation of energy prohibits that.. Art: The universe is gone, and you with it along with all things, between descrete quantum state changes. We never know it is gone since we are gone with it. The off states could be trillions of years long in material time, and we would bnever know it since we don't exist. Everything picks up where it left off when the universe blinks on again, and no gap is noticed or measured in any way - clocks don't run in an off state since there are no clocks or anything else. Conservation of energy applies only to on states - science only deals with on states. glassman: when i said that we (humans) are thinking in vectorsas opposed to tensors, i mean this....light waves are not just up and down, they are spiral.......it's more dimensions Art: Light waves don't exist in off states. Geometry doesn't exist in off sates. Particles, physical waves, space and time don't exist in off states. Nothing material or materially related exists in off states. IP: Logged
glassman Member	posted January 05, 2005 23:22 one last reply tonight... i understand what you mean Art, but i suggest that it doesn't turn off, but,that we are "seeing" the peaks and valleys of the waves, and the we are not capable of seeing the "rest" of it because it's aspect is alien to us....it's never off....it's just at different "angles" from our "experience" that's "when" the other multiverses get to "be" IP: Logged
Art Member	posted January 05, 2005 23:49 quote: Originally posted by glassman: one last reply tonight... i understand what you mean Art, but i suggest that it doesn't turn off, but,that we are "seeing" the peaks and valleys of the waves, and the we are not capable of seeing the "rest" of it because it's aspect is alien to us....it's never off....it's just at different "angles" from our "experience" that's "when" the other multiverses get to "be" How do you explain the quantum leap where the electron disappears from one orbit and simultaneously reappears in another orbit without moving across orbits, or quantum tunneling where a particle dissapears and simultaneously reappears on the other side of a barrier without going through the barrier, or teleportation of a particle across vast space instantly, or time slips where people step into the past or future for some time, then come back, or disappearnces of people who vanish right in front of witnesses? Particles are reconfigured in successive descrete steps - nothing moves, it just repositions slightly and unnoticeably from one frame to the next in quantum leaps. IP: Logged
Kate Member	posted January 06, 2005 08:07 Art, I don't doubt that you have emotion, but I doubt if it is as great as mine, since you've said that you only care about the people you choose yourself, that encompasses a very small number! I choose to care for everyone, and that includes my enemies! I am only able to do this, with the Holy Spirit, which is something you will never understand! No scientific data will ever replace God! His love, allows me to care about YOU! It allows me to care enough to grieve for those who were affected by the tidal wave! It allows me to care about the Iraqi people; even the terrorists! Love isn't a weakness, it is a strength! It hurts, and it heals! It isn't something you can study with scientific equipment, because it is an emotion! Being a "good" person, isn't enough! Anyone can do good things; even the most ruthless murderer. The Bible is being fulfilled! The hurricanes, volcanos, earthquakes and Tsunami, are just the beginning! God is at work, even in these tragedies! If you want to do some research, check out how many storms we've been having over the last ten years, compared to before! Check out the earthquakes! We can expect more! IP: Logged
glassman Member	posted January 06, 2005 08:28 quote: Originally posted by Art: How do you explain the quantum leap where the electron disappears from one orbit and simultaneously reappears in another orbit without moving across orbits, or quantum tunneling where a particle dissapears and simultaneously reappears on the other side of a barrier without going through the barrier, or teleportation of a particle across vast space instantly, or time slips where people step into the past or future for some time, then come back, or disappearnces of people who vanish right in front of witnesses? Particles are reconfigured in successive descrete steps - nothing moves, it just repositions slightly and unnoticeably from one frame to the next in quantum leaps. i'm not sure it's considered good form to go beyond previouly published ideas on an internet BB Art....remember humpty-dumpty... ok, why not...it is probably published and i just don't know.. the latest catch-phrase is quantum foam.... stop looking at the particles and look at the medium they "move" thru.... the shape of "space" cannot be "seen"... time,for us, does not flow thru the full amount of space, our time only flows across certain portions of it...these portions represent our "limited" perceptions of space... the electrons, as they move thru space, are moving thru a much more complicated set of coordinates than we can perceive, but during the majority of their travel, they are out our universe, and in others(other parts of the multi-verse).... even more important, space itself is what enforces the conservation of energy, because, it IS the energy.... IP: Logged
Art Member	posted January 06, 2005 10:17 quote: Originally posted by Kate: Art, I don't doubt that you have emotion, but I doubt if it is as great as mine, since you've said that you only care about the people you choose yourself, that encompasses a very small number! I choose to care for everyone, and that includes my enemies! I am only able to do this, with the Holy Spirit, which is something you will never understand! No scientific data will ever replace God! His love, allows me to care about YOU! It allows me to care enough to grieve for those who were affected by the tidal wave! It allows me to care about the Iraqi people; even the terrorists! Love isn't a weakness, it is a strength! It hurts, and it heals! It isn't something you can study with scientific equipment, because it is an emotion! Being a "good" person, isn't enough! Anyone can do good things; even the most ruthless murderer. The Bible is being fulfilled! The hurricanes, volcanos, earthquakes and Tsunami, are just the beginning! God is at work, even in these tragedies! If you want to do some research, check out how many storms we've been having over the last ten years, compared to before! Check out the earthquakes! We can expect more! It's about time God started killing people - the earth is much too populated with humans. You love everyone, and this will reward those who would hurt or exploit you, so they will go on to hurt and exploit many others. Your love thus encourages evil and is evil. I don't love those who would hurt or exploit - I hate them and would try to eliminate them from my nation. I love only those who contribute to me, my kin, or my country. Those who would take away from, or hurt, me, my kin, or my nation, are not loved by me, and often are hated by me instead. Just because you love inappropriately does not mean you have more emotion - it means your emotion is misguided and lacking in discrimination - a fool's emotion. IP: Logged
Art Member	posted January 06, 2005 10:20 Originally posted by Art: How do you explain the quantum leap where the electron disappears from one orbit and simultaneously reappears in another orbit without moving across orbits, or quantum tunneling where a particle dissapears and simultaneously reappears on the other side of a barrier without going through the barrier, or teleportation of a particle across vast space instantly, or time slips where people step into the past or future for some time, then come back, or disappearnces of people who vanish right in front of witnesses? Particles are reconfigured in successive descrete steps - nothing moves, it just repositions slightly and unnoticeably from one frame to the next in quantum leaps. quote: Originally posted by glassman: i'm not sure it's considered good form to go beyond previouly published ideas on an internet BB Art....remember humpty-dumpty... ok, why not...it is probably published and i just don't know.. the latest catch-phrase is quantum foam.... stop looking at the particles and look at the medium they "move" thru.... the shape of "space" cannot be "seen"... time,[b]for us, does not flow thru the full amount of space, our time only flows across certain portions of it...these portions represent our "limited" perceptions of space... the electrons, as they move thru space, are moving thru a much more complicated set of coordinates than we can perceive, but during the majority of their travel, they are out our universe, and in others(other parts of the multi-verse).... even more important, space itself is what enforces the conservation of energy, because, it IS the energy.... [/B] Originally posted by Art: How do you explain the quantum leap where the electron disappears from one orbit and simultaneously reappears in another orbit without moving across orbits, or quantum tunneling where a particle dissapears and simultaneously reappears on the other side of a barrier without going through the barrier, or teleportation of a particle across vast space instantly, or time slips where people step into the past or future for some time, then come back, or disappearnces of people who vanish right in front of witnesses? Particles are reconfigured in successive descrete steps - nothing moves, it just repositions slightly and unnoticeably from one frame to the next in quantum leaps. IP: Logged
Kate Member	posted January 06, 2005 10:45 Since God is no respector of persons Art, it means he loves the terrorist, just the same as he loves you and me. He teaches us to love one another, as he loves us. It isn't the terrorists fault, that he doesn't know any better, because he doesn't know the truth that will set him free, just as it isn't yours! You can't blame a baby for doing what is wrong, when he hasn't learned the difference; so it is with people, in God's eyes! REAL love, is never evil! If people would care enough about others, as they do for their own selves, we wouldn't have any problems! Think about it! Personally, I look forward to living in a world without problems, and war, and hate, and darkness, and looking forward to living in a world with total love, continuous learning, joy, and peace! What you are saying to me, is that my caring for you as a person, is evil! Hmmmmm! Strange! Would you like me better, if I hated you, and wanted to hurt and destroy you? I'm sorry, but your emotions are misguided Art! You go and take a poll, and see how many people think love is evil, when it doesn't pertain to themselves! I bet you are in the smallest minority with your thinking! That is what is wrong with the world! People don't give love, and they won't accept love! They only think about themselves! That is the definition of the word, "selfish" IP: Logged
glassman Member	posted January 06, 2005 12:41 stop looking at the particles and look at their environment..... it is a strobic effect..... IP: Logged
Art Member	posted January 06, 2005 12:48 quote: Originally posted by glassman: stop looking at the particles and look at their environment..... it is a strobic effect..... Fine. How does the environment of particles produce paranormal effects. How do you explain the quantum leap where the electron disappears from one orbit and simultaneously reappears in another orbit without moving across orbits, or quantum tunneling where a particle dissapears and simultaneously reappears on the other side of a barrier without going through the barrier, or teleportation of a particle across vast space instantly, or time slips where people step into the past or future for some time, then come back, or disappearnces of people who vanish right in front of witnesses? Particles are reconfigured in successive descrete steps - nothing moves, it just repositions slightly and unnoticeably from one frame to the next in quantum leaps. IP: Logged
Art Member	posted January 06, 2005 13:31 Kate: Since God is no respector of persons Art, it means he loves the terrorist, just the same as he loves you and me. Art: The universal quantum computational process (God) doesn't love or hate. Aspects of that process, in individual personalities (both carnate and incarnate) do love and hate and do act in angelic ways and in demonic ways. We are not filfilling God's will by always loving everyone - we thereby fail to learn from experience and remain stagnant in our soul development, in being a fool. Kate: He teaches us to love one another, as he loves us. Art: No, you "get off" on loving others and become a complusive lover of humanity. You selfishly pursue your compulsion and justify it with delusions of a God that wants you to engage in your compulsion. I am starting a new religion for sexual compulsives - the God of this religion wants us to have sex as often and with as many people as we can, regardless of the consequences to self or others. This is less evil than your religion of loving everyone and thereby encouraging their evil, and you find heaven on earth with my religion. Kate: It isn't the terrorists fault, that he doesn't know any better, because he doesn't know the truth that will set him free, just as it isn't yours! Art: Blame is an evaluation that assesses causality for pain, frustration, suffering, etc. Regardless of why the terrorist kills, if they kill innocent people or those who your care, they are properly blamed for evil. You can love them and send them money - not me. Kate: You can't blame a baby for doing what is wrong, when he hasn't learned the difference; so it is with people, in God's eyes! Art: Yes, unconditional love is appropriate for the infant, but not for the child or for anyone else. Conditional love (and hate) is appropriate for other than the infant. You should love only those who in some way contribute or help, now or in the future, either you, your kin or your nation - conditional love, and reject or hate eveyone else. This is wise love that discourages evil and promotes good. We are not our brother's keeper - our brother is responsible for himself. That makes our brother act in good ways to help himself or others. Providing unconditionally for our brother or anyone else will destroy them - make them dependent and lazy, and encourage them to be evil. Kate: REAL love, is never evil! Art: Only if provided conditionally, as deserved. Kate: If people would care enough about others, as they do for their own selves, we wouldn't have any problems! Think about it! Art: Liberal idealistic BS - that will never, ever happen. There will always be situations forcing you to choose between self or others, and loving others means hating your self, and loving your self means hating others. Hate is as necessary as love, will alwys remain in parity to love, and in the final analysis is as good as love. Kate: Personally, I look forward to living in a world without problems, and war, and hate, and darkness, and looking forward to living in a world with total love, continuous learning, joy, and peace! Art: You are describing a drug trip of pure pleasure, except for the loving and learning part, and both loving and learning involve pain and suffering, and neither can occur without pain and suffering. Kate: What you are saying to me, is that my caring for you as a person, is evil! Art: You don't care for me since you argue against me, and at the moment of doing so, you hate me in a very mild way. Now this hate is mixed with love, since you are trying to set my thinking straight and thereby help me. So this is moral hate or hate based in love. This is the same as when you punish a child for running out into the street - in punishing the child you show hate, but it is based in love that wants to protect the child from harm. A hate fre wporld is impossible - a world without any discipline or teaching for example. Kate: Hmmmmm! Strange! Would you like me better, if I hated you, and wanted to hurt and destroy you? Art: I would like you if you could send me money. Kate: I'm sorry, but your emotions are misguided Art! You go and take a poll, and see how many people think love is evil, when it doesn't pertain to themselves! I bet you are in the smallest minority with your thinking! Art: That would confirm the validity of my views - if most agreed with me I would likely be wrong. Kate: That is what is wrong with the world! People don't give love, and they won't accept love! They only think about themselves! That is the definition of the word, "selfish" Art: What is wrong with the world is ignorance and stupidity. Selfishness "is", and what is is fine. The problem is that selfishness is often best served by selflessness in helping (loving) others. We should thus be loving as it serves our best interests (actually, the best interests of our genes in seeking continued membership in the human gene pool). Our best selfish interests are served, as I have said, when we wisely love and hate on a conditional basis - helping those who contribute or reciprocate to us, our kin, or our nation, hating those who take from or exploit us, our kin, or our nation. This is the true morality that is consistent with enhancing human soul development. IP: Logged
glassman Member	posted January 06, 2005 13:44 simply put, our experience of time is independant of space. check out "absolute motion"....relativity hints at this.. your theories are not incorrect..... and of course the Theory Of Everything is still incomplete... i personally do not like to use the terms multi-verse/universe, but that is what we are stuck with right now...i prefer to think in terms of OUR part of the universe, and other parts. our consciousness is limited to OUR part of the universe.... IP: Logged
Kate Member	posted January 06, 2005 18:58 My oh my,, my son when he was small, ran out into the street, and scared the crap out of me, and my love for him, never turned to hate! I was scared for his life, and angry that he had disobeyed me! Anger is different than hate, Art! Where do you come up with this stuff? And how do you know, that you aren't "wrong?" Maybe you are wrong, and I am right! IP: Logged
Art Member	posted January 06, 2005 21:16 quote: Originally posted by Kate: My oh my,, my son when he was small, ran out into the street, and scared the crap out of me, and my love for him, never turned to hate! I was scared for his life, and angry that he had disobeyed me! Anger is different than hate, Art! Where do you come up with this stuff? And how do you know, that you aren't "wrong?" Maybe you are wrong, and I am right! I am not saying you felt hate for your son, but only that in disciplining him, you ezpressed hate motivation, where the motivational processes are unconscious. You may have spanked him or yelled at him, and this was an aggressive response - a hate reponse. Sure it was born of love, but we can be aggressive out of love when it is for the person's own good. This is hate - aggression - motivated by love - a moral hate. IP: Logged
thinkmoney Member	posted January 06, 2005 22:01 love is love. Hate is not love and never motivated by love. But love is imperfect in this world so all love is matter of degree. I will even use perfect mental health as synomous with love. When we are god, then we have perfect love. But all on earth are here to learn love. All lessons here are to learn love. Anger is negative and not love. I may love my kids but when I get angry at them i am displaying my issues. I am away from love or god. When i get angry, I am aware it is issues within me. All negative emotion is a reflection of who we are.. If I get angry it is because I have issues and unfortunately my anger is taken on someone else. Actually, yelling is abuse. If a child steps put on the street, I may shout but not yell. And get to child and remove then discipline in a positive way. An angry person may say, you bad boy, or how stupid you are..all abusive.. a loving response could be...mom loves you so much and you stepping out scared mom.. It is danger ..very firm talk but no anger. when we use anger, we are not being loving. Howevr, to be fair, who on earth is perfect? we are created perfect like the creator but we have separated and lost that. Our essence is perfection but our will makes imperfect choices. As we move closer to god, we are more loving. I find funny when folks say anger is loving..NEVER is anger love. But again to be fair, I am human and I am not perfect..learning love.. Those that are most angry and most abusive are those that have alot of hate, turn that hate and anger unto others or themselves. They abuse others and/or themselves. Those that have anger and hate turn inwards onto themselves or ooutwards onto others. How many folks use alcohol, addiction,etc..anger a turned onto onesef..yelling, hate, violence, etc..anger onto others. Neither is love only hate and reflection of who we are, how unaware we are. Those that are more aware will be aware that any anger are issues within oneself that need attention to grow and become better people, hence closer to love/god. For me god is unity..love..positive energy... IP: Logged
glassman Member	posted January 06, 2005 22:24 i like the idea of God being love, but the more i learn about creation, the more i relaise that the Creator left us a few nasties to deal with....lions and tigers are just the start... dengue and malaria carrying mosquitoes bite innocent babies too.... these obstacles were meant to teach us something.... IP: Logged

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