posted
Hey guys, thanks in advance for your help. Opened a Zecco account at the start of July. So far so good until yesterday. Prior to the open of Market I placed an order to short FNM. The order would not come up on the ORder status Tab so like an idiot I re-entered it three more times. When the market opened the account showed the position with all the entries totalled into the position. At the end of the day I exited the position all at once. I looked at my status this morning and I have been flagged as a pattern day trader. I have a few questions. 1 Why have I been flagged and what should I do to go back to Naive investor status? 2 I have notice that if you enter a position in steps at Zecco, each step counts as a trade which is normal. When you exit the trade by selling all the shares at once rather than counting as one trade it counts as the amount of trades it took to enter the position. Is this normal?
Thanks for any help
PCola77
posted
I would guess that a simple phone call to them could clear it up. Happened to me under slightly different circumstances with Scottrade before.
I think the number of trades it counts as would be the max of the number of trades to open a position vs the number of trades to close a position. Not 100% sure of that though.
BooDog
posted
so many hits on the same security?? interesting, but only one sell right?
32counter
posted
Hey thanks for the help guys. I did talk to them and I had three roundtrips in the week and the fnm only counted as one. I thought pattern day trading was flipping the same stock three times in one week. Boodog, I have looked at the records and it seems that they are mirroring the amount of trades it takes to enter a short position when you decide to cover even when it is all at once. As noted earlier I inadvertantly got short a stock on four seperate orders. When I covered all at once it looks as if they counted it as four seperate trades. Hope that makes sense. I am over the forty trade amount and it appears commission was charged. Is this normal on shorted stocks?
T e x
posted
as I recall, 10 found original-reg language that indeed *does* mention "trading the same stock"...we've got here, somewhere...lol
the issue of course is brokers' can set their own policies in response to the regs... therefore, is safer to have multiple accounts and thereby prevent the issue from arising.
(i) The term "day[-]trading" means the purchasing and selling or the selling and purchasing of the same security on the same day in a margin account except for:
a. a long security position held overnight and sold the next day prior to any new purchase of the same security, or
b. a short security position held overnight and purchased the next day prior to any new sale of the same security.
(ii) [A "day-trader" is any customer whose trading shows a pattern of day-trading.] The term "pattern day trader" means any customer who executes four or more day trades within five business days. However, if the number of day trades is 6% or less of total trades for the five business day period, the customer will not be considered a pattern day trader and the special requirements under paragraph (f)(8)(B)(iv) of this Rule will not apply. In the event that the organization at which a customer seeks to open an account knows or has a reasonable basis to believe that the customer will engage in pattern day trading, then the special requirements under paragraph (f)(8)(B)(iv) of this Rule will apply. If a pattern day trader does not day trade for a 90 day period, the customer will no longer be considered a pattern day trader.
I have found that each "broker" has their own "take" on this...
Jo4321
posted
Dang, this awful week put my trading account under the equity requirement again. Gotta keep an eye on that.
Jo
Ace of Spades
posted
You need to switch to Prodigytrading.com.....they let you daytrade with less than 25K
Jo4321
posted
No, I need to quit losing money!! LOL
Ace of Spades
posted
LoL..that's true but I was talking to the guy that started the thread...LoL
Jo4321
posted
oops!
JO
32counter
posted
Thanks for the great info fellas
hedfe
posted
quote:Originally posted by Ace of Spades: You need to switch to Prodigytrading.com.....they let you daytrade with less than 25K
Their website doesnt have much, what are their commissions and are their trading platform(s) good?
Ace of Spades
posted
Switching to Prodigy will be the best choice you ever made...
Prodigy is awesome....especially cause you can daytrade with less than $25,000 and you get 4x buying power for big board stocks. Omnipro is the platform! The platform is great overall. They have the best level 2's for penny stocks out there. The market data never messes up like microcaptrade or other services. I don't like the news or charts. I use knobias news filter and tdameritrade's streaming charts. LoL I opened an account with tdameritrade and never funded with money.I just wanted their free streaming charts, Ha ha.
Besides the news and charts, I think the rest of the platform is awesome. Especially the real time scanners and watchlists. They're amazing. I have a watch list of tons of penny stocks, and I just sort them by number of trades and look at the column that says percent change from open. So basicly it's like microcap's top 400, except you can see the percent change from open column which is very helpfull, cause sometimes a stock might be up 50% from close but only like 20% from open. Then there's real time scanners called Market Minders. You can open up as many as you want. With Each one you open you can pick any exchange: Bulletin board, amex, nyse, or nasdaq small cap and regular nasdaq. Once you pick the exchange you can set it for percent gainers, percent losers, or most active. I usally have a market mineder window open for every exchange to see the percent gainers.
I can give you a link for the best news service for penny stocks and Big Board stocks. It's only $29 per month for just the news. It's called knobias. It's worth every penny.
posted
thanks I have microcaptrader right now, their L2 data seems to mess up some of the time which is annoying, but I like the fact that they have streaming top 400 for otcbb,pinks, and especially nasdaq.
What are prodigy's commissions, I have a scottrade and choicetrade but would like to merge it all into one daytrading account but I dont have 25k.
T e x
posted
don't get one account, no matter how good...
jmho
hedfe
posted
so if I open an account with prodigy with 5,000 I can daytrade unlimited and reuse my money immediately after I sell?
Ace of Spades
posted
Yes, You can daytrade 1000 times everyday if you want to. You also get 4x buying power for big board stocks. So if you have $5000...You can daytrade big board stocks all day with $20,000 bying power over and over. If you catch a good Nasdaq runner with good news or something and you get 25% profit....that's $5,000 instead of just $1250 if you only had a cash account. It helps you grow your account fast.
You're buying power and cash that you can daytrade with refreshes everynight. If you make $1000 and now you have $6,000...Tommorow you will have $24,000 buying power for nasdaq stocks.
Commisions are $8. $1 more than scottrade trade but it's well worth it to daytrade and not worry about restrictions and stuff.
Also realy check out knobias news filter...I only pay $29 per month but you cant watch news from all exchanges and filter out everything except the actual PR's
It's realy important for new traders to have the option to trade and sell when they want to. And not have to worry about round trips, and restrictions.
If you have any questions call Prodigy...great service. It's a branch of grossman trading which is a reputable penson broker. Prodigy also is a penson broker.
There were some posts by me and others at this board if you're interested....A guy named Modern Rock refered tons of people to them and can also answer your questions...
Tell all your friends that can't daytrade or buy and sell when they want to switch to, prodigy....Imagine missing a 10 bagger like cause you're scared about having to many round trips and getting your account flagged. It's your money, you should be able to do what you want with it, with a extremely reputable broker that actuall cares.
It also helps you to become a better trader...many new tradrs with like $1500 go all in every trade cause they can only make a few roundtrips a week, and it's hit or miss. But if you can daytrade you can mabey put $500 in 3-4 good penny stocks for that day...all you need is just one to double or make a good gain!
hedfe
posted
Alright thanks
I think I am going to switch, I have a margin account with choicetrade which is a penson broker so you think I would be able to get a margin account approved with prodigy since their a penson broker too? (I am a student so I don't have a signifcant annual income)
Ace of Spades
posted
quote:Originally posted by hedfe: Alright thanks
I think I am going to switch, I have a margin account with choicetrade which is a penson broker so you think I would be able to get a margin account approved with prodigy since their a penson broker too? (I am a student so I don't have a signifcant annual income)
Yeah, you will deffinently get 2x buying power over night, and 4x buying power during the day for big board stocks. Everyone gets approved!
hedfe
posted
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ace of Spades: [QB] You can daytrade big board stocks all day with $20,000 bying power over and over.
yeah but don't you get charged interest on the 15,000 you borrow?
anyhow I tried emailing them but my email got sent back to me, guess I'll call them tomorrow
hedfe
posted
Okay I opened an account with them. 4x buying power is for all nasdaq stocks including small - caps?
hedfe
posted
nevermind found out 4x is for nasdaq over $5
Ace of Spades
posted
If you have any questions about the OmniPro platform let me know...
Machiavelli
posted
not for nothing Ace of Spades.. but Hedfe does not have enough trading experience for him to trade with margin.. and he's a student... which could lead to disaster... you should warn him abou the dangers of trading with Margin.. if you are not a good trader yet, are a action junkie, are not disciplined etc... you can get into trouble...
PCola77
posted
I am living proof of Mach's warnings.
Never really "got into trouble" as in was in danger of losing anything of real value, but can definitely see how people of more modest means could easily do so. I was fortunate to have a job where I have made a good income to offset my early struggles and have gotten pretty good at this, at the risk of sounding arrogant.
Oh, and back on the topic, I've never once traded on margin (as in borrowed money, aside from the stupid 3-day settlement crap). So you can definitely do well enough without it.
Ace of Spades
posted
I agree...There are risks. But there's huge reward.
..The main thing is I wanted him to know about the resource and tools...he can make the decision on his own.
..I wish someone told me sooner!!!
hedfe
posted
I've had my account opened. I made a couple good trades but then I made a bad trade where I lost about a $100. Then my daytrading buying power went from 20,000 to 7,000 after I had closed the daytrade. How come my daytrading buying power remains the same after I sell at profit, but it is decreased by about 60% after I sell at a loss?
T e x
posted
that ain't right.
math off somewhere.
My suggestion? Quit trading till you understand...maybe even longer than that--please post follow-up, though.
Best
hedfe
posted
quote:Originally posted by T e x: that ain't right.
math off somewhere.
My suggestion? Quit trading till you understand...maybe even longer than that--please post follow-up, though.
Best
lol quit trading? never
anyhow I figured out the problem no big deal now
Ace of Spades
posted
quote:Originally posted by hedfe: I've had my account opened. I made a couple good trades but then I made a bad trade where I lost about a $100. Then my daytrading buying power went from 20,000 to 7,000 after I had closed the daytrade. How come my daytrading buying power remains the same after I sell at profit, but it is decreased by about 60% after I sell at a loss?
Your buying power is calculated by the amount of cash at the end of the previous day....so no matter what your buying power should stay the same all day unitl the next day. It will be recalculated at midnight. I would call the broker if you have more questions about the buying power.
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