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T O P I C     R E V I E W
Pagan  - posted
http://www.strangepolice.com/content/item/190381.html
 
glassman  - posted
the kick on it is only a little more than .357 or 45 acp.
however, i would not advertise it as unable to go through two sheets of drywall. no bullet, yes, but a big hole all the way through will be made.
it's a nice gun to have in desk drawer (they used to call 'em The Judge) but carrying that hunk o'steel all day would get on my nerves.
 
glassman  - posted
the only way they get around the "sawed off" shotgun rule is to chamber them for a pistol load. hence the .45 colt ammo too...
i've taken out alot of pests with .410 from 50 yds and more, the .410 load is nothing to take for granted it hits pretty hard.

they also make this in a revolver carbine

The "Taurus Judge®" is so named because of the number of judges who carry it into the courtroom for their protection. Capable of chambering both .410 2-1/2" shotshell and .45 Colt Ammunition, this amazing combo gun is ideal for short distances - where most altercations occur, or longer distances with the .45 Colt ammo. We have finely tuned the rifling to spread the shot pattern at close quarters or to guide the .45 cal. bullet to the target. Fully customized with fixed rear sights, fiber optic front sights and Taurus Ribber Grips®, the "Taurus Judge" is one decision-maker that lays down the law.

 -
 
Relentless.  - posted
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
the kick on it is only a little more than .357 or 45 acp.
however, i would not advertise it as unable to go through two sheets of drywall. no bullet, yes, but a big hole all the way through will be made.
it's a nice gun to have in desk drawer (they used to call 'em The Judge) but carrying that hunk o'steel all day would get on my nerves.

The magnum models can fire the 454 casull... That offers a tad more kick.

I really thought about getting one but I keep having a tough time justifying the expense for what is little more than a novelty item.
 
glassman  - posted
i suppose that a .410 would be less likely to go through someone and then go through a wall, so it might me a little "safer" for home protection.

The ammo from an AR-15, if it's military FMJ,can and will go through a person and wall and could then kill someone too... it can also go right through most vests at 15 feet.
 
Relentless.  - posted
As it started the gun was a gimmick. Why would I carry what was nothing more than a snake gun as a defensive weapon? Clearly I would not.

I remember seeing it in a pawn shop years ago and asking what it was.

Wait.. it just fires .410 bore??? Umm no thanks.

The thing weighs too much... It holds far too few rounds/shells..

However in 454 Casull it is a decent hunting revolver.
 
CashCowMoo  - posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pagan:
http://www.strangepolice.com/content/item/190381.html

No Pagan, I cant. Because its a 410 shell. Would be interesting to see a 45-70 in a revolver.
 
buckstalker  - posted
I have shot a couple of them...fun but I would never use it for self defense.

Nothin better than the good ole 45 ACP...

Law enforcement up here refer to them as the "fight stopper"...

The guy who taught my CPL class was a Detroit cop. He told me that he has seen guys get hit with 7 or 8 rounds from a 9mm before they go down...a 45 ACP, one shot and it's over...
 
glassman  - posted
quote:
Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
quote:
Originally posted by Pagan:
http://www.strangepolice.com/content/item/190381.html

No Pagan, I cant. Because its a 410 shell. Would be interesting to see a 45-70 in a revolver.
i've shot the 45-70 in Thompson contender and .410 through the same. the barrel is 10' long and it has no more kick than .357 in a 5" barrel.

the heaviest kick i have felt in a pistol is the .17 Remington shot out of 14" bbl. But that doesn't count cuz 14" is really a carbine length bbl on a pistol grip.
the 17 remington is not the same as these 17HMR which is now real popular. The 17 HMR is just .22 magnum with asmaller bullet. The 17 rem.ington is a neckked down .223 (5.56 X45) casing with 25 gr .177cal bulltet (the same as your pellet gun when you were a kid). The reason the kick is so hard is becaise the damn thing is in the longer barrel and even tho 25 grains is the same weight as .22LR the pressure is something like 56,000 PSI and when the bullet leaves the bbl it's moving at about 4800 FPS (about 2400 FPS for .223). The kick is hard and fast and after 20 rounds, my wrist and elbow both hurt even though i have a perfect grip and hold gemometry....

it's kind of like the diference between getting hit by a little guys who is extremely fast and a big guy who is very slow... the fast punch is always more devastating even tho peopel don't expect it to be.
Force equals Mass times the acceleration...
BTW? the .17 and whatever it hits usually explodes due tot he amount of energy it gets from the accelration and momo
 
glassman  - posted
the kinetic energy of a bullet is 1/2 the mass times the Velocity squared.

so, the more pressure a round develops the harder the kick. the faster the kick the higher amount of velocity is squared while the mass of the bullet is halved...

velocity rules every time, even in punches.
 
Relentless.  - posted
quote:
Originally posted by buckstalker:
I have shot a couple of them...fun but I would never use it for self defense.

Nothin better than the good ole 45 ACP...

Law enforcement up here refer to them as the "fight stopper"...

The guy who taught my CPL class was a Detroit cop. He told me that he has seen guys get hit with 7 or 8 rounds from a 9mm before they go down...a 45 ACP, one shot and it's over...

I carry either a .40 or a .45 and am confident in both. I watch a whole lot of ballistic testing videos and nowadays it really doesn't matter what caliber one chooses. It's more important to choose the right loading and the right bullet. Federal HST is about as good as it gets right now. Although a new offering from Lehigh Defense called the XP is breaking all the rules.

The one thing that is apparent after reviewing many hundreds of ballistic tests is:

Getting shot sucks, from 22 to 50BMG, it doesn't matter.
 
Relentless.  - posted
Brassfetcher on youtube is a good one for highspeed footage.
https://www.youtube.com/user/BrassFetcher


tnoutdoors9 and Shootingthebull410 are the most honest reviews you'll find.

https://www.youtube.com/user/tnoutdoors9
https://www.youtube.com/user/ShootingTheBull410

HST plus loaded by underwood is the best there is.
http://www.underwoodammo.com/
 
glassman  - posted
My wife asked me why i started carrying my gun in the house. I replied "decepticons". i laughed , she laughed, the toaster laughed. I shot the toaster. It was a good time.
 
Relentless.  - posted
I dare say that's one of the funniest jokes you've told.
 
glassman  - posted
my son-in-law shared it to me just a few minutes 'fore i posted it here. he has much better sense of humor than i do, but at least i can recognise it (right?)
decepticons are not a thing of my childhood....
oddly, it reminded me of hunter s. thompson's sort of delivery style (fear and loathing in Vegas) and i was just channeling him in the other thread, and of course it fit this thread...
 
glassman  - posted
quote:
Originally posted by Relentless.:
quote:
Originally posted by buckstalker:
I have shot a couple of them...fun but I would never use it for self defense.

Nothin better than the good ole 45 ACP...

Law enforcement up here refer to them as the "fight stopper"...

The guy who taught my CPL class was a Detroit cop. He told me that he has seen guys get hit with 7 or 8 rounds from a 9mm before they go down...a 45 ACP, one shot and it's over...

I carry either a .40 or a .45 and am confident in both. I watch a whole lot of ballistic testing videos and nowadays it really doesn't matter what caliber one chooses. It's more important to choose the right loading and the right bullet. Federal HST is about as good as it gets right now. Although a new offering from Lehigh Defense called the XP is breaking all the rules.

The one thing that is apparent after reviewing many hundreds of ballistic tests is:

Getting shot sucks, from 22 to 50BMG, it doesn't matter.

effectivness of rounds is a really complicated analysis- those gel penetraton tests tend to favor heavy loads because it's water. Just cuz a bullet only penetrated a couple inches in gel doesn't mean the target didn't get a "hydroshock" that caused very short but disabling spike in blood pressure that basically makes them unable to think for a minute or two... thishydroshock effect can come from light rounds at high velocity and even wad cutters that are considered "just" target rounds...FMJ is most likely to give a thru and thru, but it can also penetrate a vest...
being on drugs doesn't make the target more able to withstand that hydroshock, but being in top physical condition can. it can even come down to which part of hte heart beat the target is in due to the relaxtion phase of the arteries....

hitting bone with any caliber will likely put them in enough shock to give you the time you need to decide how to proceed. a .22 or .380 thru and thru outside the critical areas may go unnoticed entirely (for about 90 seconds) by a person in good physical condition and hyped on adrenalin... IMO you should shoot what you are accurate and comfortable with. know your own limitations and don't exceed them.

and yep, 45 acp will spin a perp even by hitting them in the lower arm as long as you hit bone...
 
Relentless.  - posted
Hydro-shock has largely been discounted in modern ballistic testing. I've spent some time pondering why because at first glance it would seem the shock wave would damage internals. The more I hunt and the more bullets I put through critters I find this not to be the case (within reason mind you.. I've not winged a half pound squirrel with a 50BMG and marveled at how the squirrel frolicked away, middle finger displayed in defiance).

The body is a remarkable thing in that a super sonic projectile can pass by a vital organ and leave said organ barely aware in it's structure.

What it comes down to is shot placement. Between the three main calibers there is very little difference in true "Stopping power".

True stopping power is hitting the bad guy in the right spot.
 
glassman  - posted
I have seen all the more recent ballistic analyses that try to make a new set of rules for what is desirable. Most of it is BS IMO. ballistic gel is cool to look at but when you get down to measuring the energy absorped, penetrating gel doesn't give give you the real picture. You have to look at individual cells in an organism to understand shock wave damage.



the hydroshock effect is not the same as organ disruption and tissue damage.


It's just like in a car wreck. If you stop in one foot from 100 mph? Nothing will save you. No belts, no airbags no nada..

the basis for hydroshock was specifically to impart the fullest amount of Kinetic energy to the target in the shortest amount of time. we are talking about thousandths of a second differences, but they most certainly do matter. Because the cells of you body have to absorb them all at one time and pass them on if they can. If they can't pass them on, they explode. It's a basic physics problem. So sure you can see a clean organ next to bullet hole. But that doesn't mean the organ survived to function again.

alot of people get all wrapped up in one shot one kill. in that goal they want to tear up alot flesh and see blood channels and thirty second deaths.
In reality, you should only need to make your target unable to function for enough time to vacate the location, or to take them into custody.
One shot on kill is primarily a function of rifles and not pistols. Even the the 5.56X45 nato round (more or les eqaul to the .223) was NEVER designed to be one shot one kill round in human sized critter. It was specifically designed to generate hydroshock (particularly Cerebral) and with the intent of completley disabling the target, but not killing it outright. It takes two more people off the battle field to care for the wounded and disabled soldier. Nothing is more degrading to morale than listening to your trenchmate crying his guts out and dying. The general effect is that battle plans collapse as soon as somebody starts screaming for the morphine while the dead buddies just harden resolve.
The AK47 (7.62X39) is actually a kill round, and it the lightest possible kill round.
 
Relentless.  - posted
I agree if we take the hydro shock to the maximum, then it does indeed become effective. Shoot a ground-hog with a 22-250... The effect however becomes less and less real the slower the projectile and the larger the critter.

In most applications however it is not a factor. In most applications it is the permanent wound tract which matters.. Cutting, not shock.
 
Relentless.  - posted
Which is exactly why, as you point out, our military uses the 5.56 or .223. Their intent is to wound, not kill.
 
glassman  - posted
The brain and spinal column are much more sensitive than most people who watch too many movies beleive. The human body can survive quite a bit of rearrangemnet, but that doesn't mean it is functional for quite some time after hydroshock- in fact tiny cerebral incidents are discovered after non-fatal shots, and fatal ones show alot of incdents throughout the body

Special forces have developed a new round to make sure they get the 2500 FPS they need to make hydroshock work in the new M4 shorties.

Here's why;

An 8 month study in Iraq performed in 2010 and published in 2011 reports on autopsies of 30 gunshot victims struck with high-velocity (greater than 2500 fps) rifle bullets.[25] In all 30 cases, autopsies revealed injuries distant from the main wound channel due to hydrostatic shock. The authors determined that the lungs and chest are the most susceptible to distant wounding, followed by the abdomen. The authors conclude:

Distant injuries away from the main track in high velocity missile injuries are very important and almost always present in all cases especially in the chest and abdomen and this should be put in the consideration on the part of the forensic pathologist

and probably the general surgeon.

— R. S. Selman et al.


note that those were fatalities, the goal does not always have to be death. In fact, even if you are defending yourself, it may be legally better for you not to kill.
 
glassman  - posted
quote:
Originally posted by Relentless.:
Which is exactly why, as you point out, our military uses the 5.56 or .223. Their intent is to wound, not kill.

tha's ma point too. if you don't need to kill don't. The scenarios where death is required just don't happen that much. If you are up against trained stromtroopers, then you probably made alot of bad decisions to get yourself there.
 
Relentless.  - posted
So my ongoing plans to become a jedi and confront the empire might have been ill conceived... Duly noted.
 
Happy Valley  - posted
It's a fun gun to shoot but not really practical for a conceal carry application, it's so heavy and bulky and the grip is very uncomfortable (for me anyways). It's not as popular as the .40 S&W or the .45 ACP but I absolutely love my Glock 33 in .357 Sig. I added the spear grip extensions to all of my mags and it's so comfortable, I can't imagine ever veering from this as my conceal carry. It's by far my favorite gun...
 
glassman  - posted
Mississippi is now a legal conceal carry state with no permit as of July 1. The law seems to indicate that the gun must be in a purse or breifcase, but i'm not sure it matters. I doubt there will be any crazy mass shooters here. Too many people waiting to end them.
 
CashCowMoo  - posted
Kansas is no permit as well glass. Went into effect July 1. All the liberals in the state were telling horror stories about wild west bar shootouts and none of that is happening.
 



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