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T O P I C     R E V I E W
a surfer  - posted
[Smile] [Wink]


A FATHER DAUGHTER TALK:

A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so
many others her age she considered herself to be a very liberal
Democrat and was for distribution of all wealth.

She felt deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch
Republican which she expressed openly. One day she was challenging
her father on his beliefs and his opposition to higher taxes on the
rich & the addition of more government welfare programs. Based on the
lectures that she had participated in and the occasional chat with a
professor she felt that for years her father had obviously harbored
an evil, even selfish desire to keep what he thought should be his.

The self professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be
the truth and she indicated so to her father.

He stopped her and asked her point blank, how she was doing in
school. She answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let
him know that it was tough to maintain. That she studied all the
time, never had time to go out and party like other people she
knew.

She didn't even have time for a boyfriend and didn't really have many
college friends because of spending all her time studying. She was
taking a more difficult curriculum.

Her father listened and then asked, "How is your good friend Mary
doing?"

She replied, "Mary is barely getting by." She continued, "She barely
has a 2.0 GPA," adding, "and all she takes are easy classes and she
never studies." "But Mary is so very popular on campus, college for
her is a blast, she goes to all the parties all the time and very
often doesn't even show up for classes because she is too hung
over."

Her father then asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean's
office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your 4.0 GPA and give it to
your friend who only has a 2.0." He continued, "That way you will
both have a 3.0 GPA, and certainly that would be a fair and equal
distribution of GPA."

The daughter visibly shocked by her father's suggestion angrily fired
back, "That wouldn't be fair! I worked really hard for mine, I did
without and Mary has done little or nothing, she played while I
worked real hard!"

The father slowly smiled, winked and said, "Welcome to the Republican
Party."
 
Relentless.  - posted
Sadly that is no longer the republican party.
 
Machiavelli  - posted
yup...that's the Republican party... always screwing the poor for their own benefit...
 
turbokid  - posted
or other men apparently.... lol !!
 
a surfer  - posted
quote:
Originally posted by Machiavelli:
yup...that's the Republican party... always screwing the poor for their own benefit...

100% wrong....

The poor screw the poor even more.
 
glassman  - posted
quote:
Originally posted by Relentless.:
Sadly that is no longer the republican party.

i agree...

the "new" GOP spends all of it's energy telling people how they need to get rid of "fags" (sorry for the slurr but it's true) and borrowing as much money as they can from the Citizens, so they can put it in their own pockets...

under Reagan? our national debt PER PERSON, went from 4,483$ to 11,577$
 
ScottSA  - posted
Great story surfer!
 
ruthie  - posted
Absolutely GREAT story surfer and absolutely true as well. I am also for assisting the poor in every way possible, but many programs only keep the poor down and under the thumb of the very people who claim to help them. That is a very sad way to live your life out. Most people want a hand up , not a hand out...
 
glassman  - posted
here's some facts about "welfare":

Farm Program Pays $1.3 Billion to People Who Don't Farm

By Dan Morgan, Gilbert M. Gaul and Sarah Cohen
Washington Post Staff Writers
Sunday, July 2, 2006; Page A01

EL CAMPO, Tex. -- Even though Donald R. Matthews put his sprawling new residence in the heart of rice country, he is no farmer. He is a 67-year-old asphalt contractor who wanted to build a dream house for his wife of 40 years.

Yet under a federal agriculture program approved by Congress, his 18-acre suburban lot receives about $1,300 in annual "direct payments," because years ago the land was used to grow rice.

Matthews is not alone. Nationwide, the federal government has paid at least $1.3 billion in subsidies for rice and other crops since 2000 to individuals who do no farming at all, according to an analysis of government records by The Washington Post.

Some of them collect hundreds of thousands of dollars without planting a seed. Mary Anna Hudson, 87, from the River Oaks neighborhood in Houston, has received $191,000 over the past decade. For Houston surgeon Jimmy Frank Howell, the total was $490,709.


these are GOP policies..

it gets worse when you examine which real farmers (we call them GROWERS now) get "welfare", you'll find that they are almost all large corporations...

i share the "old school" GOP values. but they have been twisted and perverted in the last 20 years...

The payments now account for nearly half of the nation's expanding agricultural subsidy system, a complex web that has little basis in fairness or efficiency. What began in the 1930s as a limited safety net for working farmers has swollen into a far-flung infrastructure of entitlements that has cost $172 billion over the past decade. In 2005 alone, when pretax farm profits were at a near-record $72 billion, the federal government handed out more than $25 billion in aid, almost 50 percent more than the amount it pays to families receiving welfare

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/01/AR2006070100962. html

i can go into the US Govt database and back this up on my own if you don't believe this article...


One reason that the price of corn is high despite a record harvest is that about a quarter of the crop is now being used to refine ethanol. Taxpayers not only subsidize agribusiness to grow the corn, but big oil companies get a tax credit of 51 cents for each gallon of ethanol blended with gasoline.
 
Machiavelli  - posted
quote:
Originally posted by a surfer:
quote:
Originally posted by Machiavelli:
yup...that's the Republican party... always screwing the poor for their own benefit...

100% wrong....

The poor screw the poor even more.

Care to show me instead of just blurting something like that out.

We all know the Republicans help out the rich more then they do the poor any day of the week. The right wing have more interest in helping out the upper middle class, elite and big corporations then the blue collar working person & the dirt poor citizen.
 
Machiavelli  - posted
quote:
Originally posted by ruthie:
Absolutely GREAT story surfer and absolutely true as well. I am also for assisting the poor in every way possible, but many programs only keep the poor down and under the thumb of the very people who claim to help them. That is a very sad way to live your life out. Most people want a hand up , not a hand out...

We'll I think WORKFARE is successful in many ways but as most things in life it has it's faults. People seem to forget that workfare is now in place and not total Welfare for the poor (I don't mean farm subsidies etc.).

A neighbor of mine was on welfare who refused to get a job till the Workfare provision had forced her to do so or else she would of lost her benefits. So I do not see a handout anymore as people claim.

If any political party wants to win a election they need to help the poor more or else the poor are the ones who will screw you when the elections come up. And when I mean to help them I don't mean as election time is approaching. Or to make false promises when election time is approaching. It is as simple as that. Can all of the poor's problems be helped or be done without causing more problems. Nope. But at least make a effort to come out with solutions and not fill out your term on how to cut taxes for the rich.
 
retiredat49  - posted
quote:
Originally posted by Machiavelli:
quote:
Originally posted by a surfer:
quote:
Originally posted by Machiavelli:
yup...that's the Republican party... always screwing the poor for their own benefit...

100% wrong....

The poor screw the poor even more.

Care to show me instead of just blurting something like that out.

We all know the Republicans help out the rich more then they do the poor any day of the week. The right wing have more interest in helping out the upper middle class, elite and big corporations then the blue collar working person & the dirt poor citizen.

Care to show us instead of just blurting something like that out?
 
a surfer  - posted
quote:
Originally posted by Machiavelli:
quote:
Originally posted by a surfer:
quote:
Originally posted by Machiavelli:
yup...that's the Republican party... always screwing the poor for their own benefit...

100% wrong....

The poor screw the poor even more.

Care to show me instead of just blurting something like that out.

We all know the Republicans help out the rich more then they do the poor any day of the week. The right wing have more interest in helping out the upper middle class, elite and big corporations then the blue collar working person & the dirt poor citizen.

The poorest 20% of our nation have 80% of the problems. More drinking, drug use, jails, Etc, Etc.

Victims feeding off victims.


You want answers.....

ask Anheiser Busch, your local meth lab and the Cali cartel from Columbia.

We have epidemics here that are ruining society from the bottom up.

Republicans fault??? I think not.
 
ruthie  - posted
You sure hit an important spot when you mentioned the meth lab. What a disgrace. I know a young lady who goes daily to get her legitimate legal dose. She has been told that the majority of people who come there for their meth will ALWAYS need to do so. Very sad indeed...
 
Machiavelli  - posted
quote:
Originally posted by a surfer:
quote:
Originally posted by Machiavelli:
quote:
Originally posted by a surfer:
quote:
Originally posted by Machiavelli:
yup...that's the Republican party... always screwing the poor for their own benefit...

100% wrong....

The poor screw the poor even more.

Care to show me instead of just blurting something like that out.

We all know the Republicans help out the rich more then they do the poor any day of the week. The right wing have more interest in helping out the upper middle class, elite and big corporations then the blue collar working person & the dirt poor citizen.

The poorest 20% of our nation have 80% of the problems. More drinking, drug use, jails, Etc, Etc.

Victims feeding off victims.


You want answers.....

ask Anheiser Busch, your local meth lab and the Cali cartel from Columbia.

We have epidemics here that are ruining society from the bottom up.

Republicans fault??? I think not.

Did i say the Republicans caused those problems? Nope.

What I did say is the Republicans do not help the poor or barely do so those problems continue.

Yes I agree we have epidemics like alcoholism, drugs, street crime etc. But are the republicans more concerned with that or with whats going on in Iraq and other countries? Ask yourself that. Also ask yourself what is the cause of these epidemics. My guess is Poverty of which the Republicans do not try to address it much if at all.

Btw the Cali Cartel was dismantled awhile ago. The North Valley Cartel are the current kings in Colombia.

But anyways maybe it is the Republicans fault. For focusing too much on other issues and not enough on domestic issues such as poverty. Afterall the Republicans are not known for helping the rich for no good reason. [Roll Eyes]
 
glassman  - posted
The poorest 20% of our nation have 80% of the problems. More drinking, drug use, jails, Etc, Etc.



LOL.. what makes you say that?

the poorest are in jail cuz they get public defenders...


i been all over the world surf, and nobody uses as much booze and drugs as the frat houses... and frat houses aren't "of" the poor...
 
rimasco  - posted
the "new" GOP spends all of it's energy telling people how they need to get rid of "fags" (sorry for the slurr but it's true)

Thats Ok glass, Anne Courtier made the word "Politcally correct"
 
glassman  - posted
hey, i just want my party back...
stop borrowing so dam much money and get US a balanced budget, like the GOP sent up to Clinton...

the "credit crunch" we are experiencing right now is the direct result of following the fearless leader...
 
rimasco  - posted
I hear that school loans are starting to be investigated
 
glassman  - posted
there's a real farce..

the GOPs raised the student loan rates..

probably cuz with all those dirt cheap loans available, the schools were just raising tuitition as fast they could anyway right? [Wink]

in the meantime? the Dems offer to cut them again but?

The rate cut was part of the "Six for '06" campaign platform championed by now-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif. But the proposal's cost, coupled with opposition to the idea from the White House and Senate Democrats, means Pelosi may have to settle for less.

The talks are being watched closely by lenders because the rate cut's cost to the government were to be offset with cuts to federal subsidies for student lenders of an estimated $18 billion, or 70%.

The subsidy cuts were seen as jeopardizing the $25 billion leveraged buyout of Sallie Mae, formally known as SLM Corp. (SLM).

Sallie Mae said in July that legislation slashing federal subsidies for student lenders threatened the leveraged buyout of the company by private-equity firm J.C. Flowers & Co.

Sallie Mae said the private-equity firm had informed it that legislative proposals of the sort discussed in the House and Senate "could result in a failure of the conditions to the closing of the merger to be satisfied."

Pelosi and House Education and Labor Committee Chairman George Miller, D- Calif., want Pell Grants increased, but they also promised to cut student loan borrower rates to 3.4% from 6.8%.

But at a cost of $2 billion a year, making good on that promise is proving expensive. Because lenders are guaranteed a minimum rate of return on such loans, cutting the borrower rates increases federal loan subsidy costs.

Republicans are eagerly awaiting the outcome, planning to paint it as another failure of the new Democratic majority should the White House succeed in blocking or reducing the proposed rate cut.


http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200708301621DOWJONESDJONLINE 000973_FORTUNE5.htm

everybody wants a free lunch..
 
thinkmoney  - posted
poverty is not the cause for alcoholism, drugs, crime...a negative mind is....whether rich or poor , problems present as long as fear persists...

if a mind is healthy, then it will work and dreams come true...
 
Machiavelli  - posted
yah... right ThinkM. lol ... you haven't lived in total poverty to say such a thing lol ... Hell, even the Mel Brooks character in the movie Life Stinks finally broke down and he had a positive healthy mind... [Razz]
 
Machiavelli  - posted
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
there's a real farce..

the GOPs raised the student loan rates..

probably cuz with all those dirt cheap loans available, the schools were just raising tuitition as fast they could anyway right? [Wink]

in the meantime? the Dems offer to cut them again but?

The rate cut was part of the "Six for '06" campaign platform championed by now-House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif. But the proposal's cost, coupled with opposition to the idea from the White House and Senate Democrats, means Pelosi may have to settle for less.

The talks are being watched closely by lenders because the rate cut's cost to the government were to be offset with cuts to federal subsidies for student lenders of an estimated $18 billion, or 70%.

The subsidy cuts were seen as jeopardizing the $25 billion leveraged buyout of Sallie Mae, formally known as SLM Corp. (SLM).

Sallie Mae said in July that legislation slashing federal subsidies for student lenders threatened the leveraged buyout of the company by private-equity firm J.C. Flowers & Co.

Sallie Mae said the private-equity firm had informed it that legislative proposals of the sort discussed in the House and Senate "could result in a failure of the conditions to the closing of the merger to be satisfied."

Pelosi and House Education and Labor Committee Chairman George Miller, D- Calif., want Pell Grants increased, but they also promised to cut student loan borrower rates to 3.4% from 6.8%.

But at a cost of $2 billion a year, making good on that promise is proving expensive. Because lenders are guaranteed a minimum rate of return on such loans, cutting the borrower rates increases federal loan subsidy costs.

Republicans are eagerly awaiting the outcome, planning to paint it as another failure of the new Democratic majority should the White House succeed in blocking or reducing the proposed rate cut.


http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/djf500/200708301621DOWJONESDJONLINE 000973_FORTUNE5.htm

everybody wants a free lunch..

Have to give the GOP credit for always being for the interest of Big Business while sticking it to the little guy (the students who can't afford college). [Roll Eyes]
 
glassman  - posted
well Mach, i wasn't joking about the rising cost of college in relationship to the eaze of obtaining finacing:

 -


now? if you consider how the "easy access financing" did THE SAME EXACT thing to housing prices as the ease of getting a student loan did to college tuitions?

you begin to see why the brokers are/were offering more and more margin...

IMO? the "credit crunch" was way overdue... it shoulda started long before we hit 14,000....

Abstract:
As a consequence of the suspicion that margin loans had been a key element of the stock market boom and crash in the late 1920s, the Federal Reserve Bank was empowered to regulate margin lending with the Securities and Exchange Act. However, there exists no formal rationale for the regulation of margin lending. In this paper we demonstrate in a principal-agent model that the availability of margin loans can cause the development of a stock market bubble through inducing investors to pay more for a stock than its fundamental value. We show that the emergence of a margin loan induced bubble can be ruled out by an initial margin
requirement and thus provide a formal rationale for margin regulation.

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=473781

when will people learn? [Confused]

Canada:
Margin debt hits all-time high
Borrowing to buy stock carries a magnified risk when market whipsaws

Jul 31, 2007 04:30 AM
Rita Trichur
BUSINESS REPORTER

The Toronto Stock Exchange recouped some of its losses yesterday, but investors still have billions of reasons to worry about losing their shirts.

Margin debt – the amount of borrowed money used to make investments – hit an all-time high of $14.06 billion at the end of May, according to numbers from the Investment Dealers Association of Canada.

That figure increased by 2.8 per cent from $13.66 billion at the end of April, but is up by about 20 per cent from the $11.71 billion recorded at the end of 2006.


America:

NYSE Margin Hits All Time Record
Monday, March 19, 2007 | 03:17 PM

Bloomberg News has the details:

The amount of money borrowed from brokerages that do business on the New York Stock Exchange to buy stock rose 3.6 percent to a second straight monthly record, reaching $295.9 billion in February. Margin debt, as the borrowing is called, in January broke the prior high set at the peak of the so-called Internet bubble.

Changes in the level of margin debt have mirrored those of U.S. stock indexes. After setting an all-time high of $278.5 billion in March 2000, margin debt dropped to less than half that amount by September 2002. It reached $285.6 billion in January.



Mad Money Is Piling Into Margin Accounts
Liz Moyer, 04.11.07, 6:00 AM ET

Yet one more sign that the equity markets might be overheating: Margin debt in investor brokerage accounts has reached an all-time high of $321 billion, enough to prompt a warning from securities regulators on the risks of investing with borrowed money.

The NASD issued another margin-call warning to the public Tuesday, the first time since 2003. Margin accounts allow investors to borrow from their brokers to buy securities; if trades go south, investors get a "margin call" from their brokers asking to pony up additional capital.

 
Relentless.  - posted
Those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it.
 
Machiavelli  - posted
those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it.... you mean...
 
Relentless.  - posted
I said what I meant since it would be difficult for me to remember 1929.
 
Machiavelli  - posted
still the wrong saying... the way i said it means if you do not remember history... as opposed to not knowing history....
 
Relentless.  - posted
I'm quite certain I said what I meant.
Point being the last time there was an immense number of stocks owned on margin the brokers recalled that margin and it lead to a rather troubling financial time in Amerika.
Since I and probably you are not capable of remembering this time we are left to only know the history of it.
Please let me know if I can at any other time take far too much time to explain an easily comprehendable notion to you.
 
Machiavelli  - posted
We can remember the past through knowing history... If you can't I suggest you pick up a history book but then again you described 1929 pretty much accurately so you do not have to be there to actually "remember" it but you can through knowing the facts of which you "remember"... simple concept... i know.. i couldn't believe it myself... [Big Grin]
 



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