This is topic stock brokers in forum General Investing Topics at Allstocks.com's Bulletin Board.


To visit this topic, use this URL:
http://www.allstocks.com/stockmessageboard/ubb/ultimatebb.php/ubb/get_topic/f/9/t/002169.html

Posted by BloodHound on :
 
im looking for a broker that will allow day trading. . .scottrade is 25k minimum? etrade 20k?

are there any lower minimum requirements to daytrade from well known brokers?
 
Posted by wdcisco on :
 
Bloodhound...are you 17!!?

E*trade seems like you best bet...

Might wanna call BOFA too.. 18009261111 ...ask...theyve been great for me.
 
Posted by T e x on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BloodHound:
im looking for a broker that will allow day trading. . .scottrade is 25k minimum? etrade 20k?

are there any lower minimum requirements to daytrade from well known brokers?

there's one that basically "lends you" the balance to qualify...it's on here somewhere in the General Investing forum.

It's not a broker thing, but an SEC reg...

Easiest is to fund several accounts.
 
Posted by BloodHound on :
 
haha yea i am. Stock trading is fun to me, i might be a stock broker one day
 
Posted by wdcisco on :
 
Tex,
If you have 25k in your trading account how many trades do they limit you before they mark you as a pattern day trader?

Thanks...
 
Posted by T e x on :
 
Well, policies vary...eg, some brokers require $30k (this is total value, btw)... but if you meet those minimums, they're not looking to flag you. They're just watching margin calls...

iow, you get flagged when you're below minimum and do four day trades in a rolling 5-day period. So, yeah, at that level of round-trips, you're id'd...

Actually, I think the specific language specifies "in the same stock," but peeps get hammered alla time for four round-trips in *any* stock. Again, broker policy, not the regs...

That's why I suggest multiple accounts...

I've never had a problem. Have occasionally fudged on "free rides" to exit a day trade...but when they contact me, I just go to the branch office (or mail) and cover. If your broker has a branch office, is a good idea to visit a few times and be friendly...at least, has been for me. I never mention one broker to another, though.
 
Posted by BloodHound on :
 
well i have a non margin account on scottrade, am i allowed to buy and sell a stock in the same day and wait for the funds to settle

or do i need 25k to do even 1 daytrade a week?
 
Posted by wdcisco on :
 
Blood:
You can have an account at 17? I thought minimum was 18? hmmm..
Thanks Tex..
May I bother you with another question?!:

So you can have four roundtrips?

Or just 2 buys 2 sells? =4

If you have 30k in your account you can daytrade as much as you want?

Thanks Tex for helping me clear this up...
 
Posted by BloodHound on :
 
i have an account in my name but its under my father, if that makes sense.
 
Posted by wdcisco on :
 
ahhh, gotcha [Smile]

How long have you been trading?
 
Posted by BloodHound on :
 
for like a year now, started when NDOL came about!! and id still have my original 1k had BHUB not been halted piece of crap

im sticking to big board stocks this second time around, i feel so much safer
 
Posted by woswill on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BloodHound:
i have an account in my name but its under my father, if that makes sense.

Custodial account, like myself
 
Posted by T e x on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by wdcisco:
Blood:
You can have an account at 17? I thought minimum was 18? hmmm..
Thanks Tex..
May I bother you with another question?!:

So you can have four roundtrips?

Or just 2 buys 2 sells? =4

If you have 30k in your account you can daytrade as much as you want?

Thanks Tex for helping me clear this up...

no, not 4-- only 3 in a rolling 5-day period... FOUR "trips the trigger." If for some reason, you have 30k in a cash account, you will most likely be moved to margin. Don't know "all brokers'" policies, obviously... but $30k would remove any worries of getting whacked by the broker, ie, 90-day freeze...
 
Posted by wdcisco on :
 
I can't get whacked, eh? Awesome!!!

Thanks Tex!!! Happy Holidays to you [Smile]
 
Posted by T e x on :
 
and you, as well [Wink]
 
Posted by Jo4321 on :
 
With Fidelity, I had to ask to change my account to a margin and then fill out some paperwork.

Just to clarify, a margin account doesn't have to have any minimum. Also, you can use it as a cash account, and never actually borrow. The benefit is that you don't have to wait for your money to settle with a margin account.

But doing more than 3 round trips in the rolling-5day period, you have to have over $25,000 (at least that is the way it is with fidelity.

Jo
 
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
 
prodigy trading let's you daytrade with only $2500 to start!

They give you 4x buying power to daytrade also for big board stocks..meaning nasdaq, amex, and NYSE!

http://www.prodigytrading.com/

I have an account with them and they are great!

any broker or finanical firm/institution that is an LLC doesn't apply to the SEC daytrading rule, cause you are considered part of a group, so the whole group obiously meets the $25k minimum.

Prop firms also are LLC's so they can get around SEC rules to! Some give their clients 10x intraday margin istead of 4x that most brokers do.

But to some things up, I recomend prodigytrading! No daytrade restrictions, and they don't restrict penny stocks like scottade and other brokers!

It's a branch of Grossman trading

http://grossmantrading.com/index.html

but the broker that lets you daytrade with only $2500 is prodigy!

http://www.prodigytrading.com/
 
Posted by T e x on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ace of Spades:
prodigy trading let's you daytrade with only $2500 to start!

They give you 4x buying power to daytrade also for big board stocks..meaning nasdaq, amex, and NYSE!

http://www.prodigytrading.com/

I have an account with them and they are great!

any broker or finanical firm/institution that is an LLC doesn't apply to the SEC daytrading rule, cause you are considered part of a group, so the whole group obiously meets the $25k minimum.

Prop firms also are LLC's so they can get around SEC rules to! Some give their clients 10x intraday margin istead of 4x that most brokers do.

But to some things up, I recomend prodigytrading! No daytrade restrictions, and they don't restrict penny stocks like scottade and other brokers!

ya...thought that was you who knew about Progidy, but it's been a long weeeeeek, lol...

Thanks for weighing in, Ace
 
Posted by wdcisco on :
 
Pretty cool ace...Thanks for the info...!

I will look into that [Smile]

Happy holidays.....!!!
 
Posted by BloodHound on :
 
YESSS that is exactly what im looking for ACE!

can you tell us a little more about them though for everyones sake? whats their commision fees. . and are there any monthly fees to pay?
 
Posted by T e x on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by BloodHound:
well i have a non margin account on scottrade, am i allowed to buy and sell a stock in the same day and wait for the funds to settle

or do i need 25k to do even 1 daytrade a week?

1) yes, you can.

2) no, you don't.

The "alert" goes up at more than 3 round-trips in a rolling 5-day period. Get that--not in a "week," but any 5 trading days in a row. iow, weekends and holidays don't count.
 
Posted by wdcisco on :
 
Careful bloodhound...You don't want to play with 4x the money you don't have.. [Wink]

GL man!
 
Posted by BloodHound on :
 
mmhm im getting it, now one last question, when trading on scottrade using a cash account, i buy/sell and then then have "unsettled funds". . does this mean i can still buy/sell 2 more times?
 
Posted by T e x on :
 
nope...can buy with unsettled funds (Scottie), but if you sell, "free-ride" kicks in. Gotta be ready to cover...and not do it too often.
 
Posted by Jo4321 on :
 
quote:
mmhm im getting it, now one last question, when trading on scottrade using a cash account, i buy/sell and then then have "unsettled funds". . does this mean i can still buy/sell 2 more times?


Bloodhound, sounds like you might be getting the "free ride" issue mixed up with the daytrading issue. Daytrading is where you need to make sure you don't go over 3 times.

The free-ride issue could happen even if you don't day trade. Example, you buy a security on day one, sell it on day two. Then you immediately buy another security on day two, using your proceeds that you just got. If you sell THAT on day three before those funds have settled, that is a free ride. But you have no daytrades.

However, if you have other cash in your account that can cover that sale, you are okay. I tend to keep three different "piles of money" to trade with. So if I buy one day with one pile, the third pile that I may have sold off is settling. Hard to explain but so far I've had no free rides.
 
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
 
Prodigy's commisions are $8, a dollar more than scottrade, but they let you daytrade with only $2,500. which can pay for itself with one good trade, that you would have missed at scttrade waiting for your funds to settle, lol!

You don't need to use the 4x margin if you don't want to, you just have that option! Most people starting out, choose prodigy just to get around the daytrading rule, not to use margin!

The software you trade on is Omni pro! It's great!

Call yourself and talk to keith if you have questions!

I gonna try and clear things up for you bloundhound about scottrade and the main retail brokers about the sec rules! I know others tried to explain but they did it in pieces and your trying to put them together, LoL.

If you are at a regular broker there are three main counts. A cash account, a regular margin account over $2,000, and a daytrading margin account over $25,000!

With a daytading account with $25k you can daytrade all you want and never have to wait for your funds to settle, and you get 4x buying power intraday, and 2x buying power over night!

With both a cash acount and a regualr margin account with over $2k but under $25k, You can have 3 day trades in a 5 day periond. The only difference is with a regular margin account, you don't have to wait for your funds to settle! With a cash account you have to wait 3 days to for your money to settle! you can still buy with unsettled funds, but then you would have to wait untill they were settled to sell, which is risky! If you accidently sold made a trade with unsettled funds, it would go through you would just be flagged as a daytrader that needs $25,000. The first time you get a warning if you tell them it was a mistake. after that they will restrict your account!

If you have a cash account I recommend never going all in on a stock, and always have settled cash available in case a hot stocks comes along. If you have $1,500...mabey only buy $1000 worth of a stock, that way you still have $500 settled ready to trade! Also with a cash account, if you buy and sell in the same day with all you money, you can still buy a stock before the funds settle, you just can't sell before the funds settle....which most people don't do any way, cause if it starts to go down you can't sell!
 
Posted by chuck9 on :
 
Ace, are you saying with a daytrading account that you can hold a trade overnight?. Example: I buy today, hold that position overnight and sell the next day.

When your flag as a daytrader with a margin account of 25k you can not hold a position overnight. At lease that is the way Ameritrade works.
Prodigy's, can you give me information on how to get in touch with these people.
chuck  -
 
Posted by wdcisco on :
 
So with a daytrading account...you can ONLY daytrade?! Are you sure?
 
Posted by wdcisco on :
 
Here Chuck:

http://www.prodigytrading.com/


Ace had this info up above.
 
Posted by chuck9 on :
 
Thanks Cisco, trying to do too much at one time.
Your answers to your question is on Chuck big Board picks. [Smile]
 
Posted by chuck9 on :
 
Cisco, at Ameritrade. When you are flagged as a daytrader. You cannot hold the position overnight. I know this for a fact because I did this one time and was immediately e-mail from Ameritrade.
 
Posted by T e x on :
 
that's unbelievable...can you post the body of that e-mail? ie, with your account ID info redacted?
 
Posted by wdcisco on :
 
Did you call Ameritrade and discuss it with them?
Its possible that you could have misinterpreted the email...

Chuck, Thanks for the answer I will go over it now.. [Big Grin]
 
Posted by chuck9 on :
 
Tex, I hope we are all on the same page about what a day trader can or cannot do.

My interpretation is that a day trader can trade as many times round-trip per day, as he or she sees fit to do. On the other hand, one cannot buy into a position and hold overnight and sell the next day. This is coming from Ameritrade.

Will try and get confirmation from Ameritrade and will post.

As far as the statement I made about it happening to me. That was about a year or so ago.

I sure hope I am wrong, because if it is the way you guys are talking about. I think I will change brokers.
chuck  -
 
Posted by chuck9 on :
 
Tex, just finish discussing daytrading criteria, rules and regulations with Ameritrade.
And you guys are correct. You can hold overnight providing you meet certain rules and regulations of your margin account.

I sure am glad I got into this discussion, because I did learn something and the way I see it any time one can come away from a days work with more knowledge than you had when you started you are on the + side.
chuck  -
 
Posted by Machiavelli on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by chuck9:
On the other hand, one cannot buy into a position and hold overnight and sell the next day. This is coming from Ameritrade.

I think I will change brokers.
chuck  -

[Eek!] [Confused] never heard of any such thing... there are daytraders who occassionally swing or position trade... btw go with Choicetrade.com [Wink]
 
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Machiavelli:
quote:
Originally posted by chuck9:
On the other hand, one cannot buy into a position and hold overnight and sell the next day. This is coming from Ameritrade.

I think I will change brokers.
chuck  -

[Eek!] [Confused] never heard of any such thing... there are daytraders who occassionally swing or position trade... btw go with Choicetrade.com [Wink]
Good Morning Mach...the reason you never heard of such a thing...is there isn't such a thing!

What is boggling my mind is...Chuck9's post contradict themselfs completely...he said on other threads that he's has been trading for years, but he just came to allstocks because the other board(????which hasn't been specified) [Confused] that he used to post on, didn't trade his style...which he call's "hit and run trading" .... [Big Grin] Ha Ha Ha....which is realy just called daytrading...And he can't find others that participate in this style..."Rare" style...LoL...evyerone is a daytrader unless they are a Fortune or Money magazine subscriber LoL...

If someone has been trading for years, they know the basic terminology and basic S.E.C. rules...you don't have to be an expert, but you will know the basics!

Read his previous posts...He missuses the term "pull back" constantly!

Since I been at allstocks I only had problems with a few people....Purl girl, River Rat, and now....well I'll just leave it at that....and my only issue with them has been honesty with others and themselfs!

I think we have a poser on our hands....mabey a 15 year old with metastock software! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by chuck9 on :
 
Ace, Merry Christmas to you and all of your family. Hope you have a good Christmas and a safe holiday.
See you, when the market opens.

Also a Merry Christmas to all of the other members on this board.
chuck  -
 
Posted by chuck9 on :
 
Machiavelli, thanks for the information, will check them out.
What type of trading, do you do? Basically all I do is hit and run trading. If you ever look at my posts on the big Board under Chuck's big Board picks.
They are all or basically all gap to the downside for a hit-and-run short position,just in and out,

IF you lack I will post the charts so you can see what I am doing. I do most of all my trading on a five minute chart.
chuck  -
 
Posted by wdcisco on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ace of Spades:
prodigy trading let's you daytrade with only $2500 to start!

They give you 4x buying power to daytrade also for big board stocks..meaning nasdaq, amex, and NYSE!

http://www.prodigytrading.com/

I have an account with them and they are great!

any broker or finanical firm/institution that is an LLC doesn't apply to the SEC daytrading rule, cause you are considered part of a group, so the whole group obiously meets the $25k minimum.

Prop firms also are LLC's so they can get around SEC rules to! Some give their clients 10x intraday margin istead of 4x that most brokers do.

But to some things up, I recomend prodigytrading! No daytrade restrictions, and they don't restrict penny stocks like scottade and other brokers!

It's a branch of Grossman trading

http://grossmantrading.com/index.html

but the broker that lets you daytrade with only $2500 is prodigy!

http://www.prodigytrading.com/

ACE,

I want to start an account with these guys...

How did you start you account--over the phone?

Where do you log in?

-wdcisco
 
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by wdcisco:
quote:
Originally posted by Ace of Spades:
prodigy trading let's you daytrade with only $2500 to start!

They give you 4x buying power to daytrade also for big board stocks..meaning nasdaq, amex, and NYSE!

http://www.prodigytrading.com/

I have an account with them and they are great!

any broker or finanical firm/institution that is an LLC doesn't apply to the SEC daytrading rule, cause you are considered part of a group, so the whole group obiously meets the $25k minimum.

Prop firms also are LLC's so they can get around SEC rules to! Some give their clients 10x intraday margin istead of 4x that most brokers do.

But to some things up, I recomend prodigytrading! No daytrade restrictions, and they don't restrict penny stocks like scottade and other brokers!

It's a branch of Grossman trading

http://grossmantrading.com/index.html

but the broker that lets you daytrade with only $2500 is prodigy!

http://www.prodigytrading.com/

ACE,

I want to start an account with these guys...

How did you start you account--over the phone?

Where do you log in?

-wdcisco

You call...keith answers the phone.....he answers any question you have and gives the instrucitons....and that's pretty much it! LoL

Keith pretty much runs the whole show! It's a penson broker which is great!

Basicly what happens is he emails you the forms, you print them out...fill them out...fax them over, and you're good to go!

You download omnipro trading platform...and he gives you the login info to omnipro and your penson account!

If I didn't have an account with prodigy myself, and love them....I wouldn't have ever posted about it...good luck

Also some adivce....pay the money for the best package at stockcharts.com for advanced realtime charting...I watch the 60 minute charts over a 1-2 month perioud for my favorite big board stocks....and flip them like there's no tommorow...

right now my list is...CSIQ , CSUN, LDK,
TNH, MOS, MON, and of course the safest ones are FSLR, AAPL and GOOG ...the charts don't lie with good stocks....and they all move with the dow($INDU/QLD)..this is how you will bank big money in 2008, by being smart! also...check the 60 min chart on a tad bit riskier plays like CPSL, ASTI, DSTI, PEIX...The charts don't lie!!!

It's like stealing candy from a baby....when ever the RSI or STOCHASTICS are over sold, or MACD crosses on the 60 minute chart at stockcharts.....snatch any of these up and you will back big money in a few days.

You could use a daily chart or 5 min chart....but in my opion...to make the most profit in the most logical period of time....going by the 60 minut chart is what you want to do!!! CSIQ, CSUN, TNH, MON, and MOS have been making the biggest and most predictable gains for me...A Few TIMES a month...I've been makiing over 50% on my entire portfolio the last 3 months doing this! Using margin of course, but the charts don't lie, so I'm not takng a risk in my opinion. Volatile markets...means more chances to flip stocks by reading a 60 minute chart over 1-2 month periods IMO.

and if you look at the 60 min chart on FRPT, CC, FMT, ....Or any stock that is making 52 week lows...the 60 minute chart can acuratelty get you in and out to make quick money.....

eveyone has their own style and system...but this has been working for me!!!
 
Posted by wdcisco on :
 
WOW! Awesome~! [Eek!] Thanks Ace! I can always count on you for a full explanation [Wink]

I will try to call this keith guy wednesday or thursday...

I forgot where I read it...but you said you worked at a call center...

What is the company?

Merry Christmas!
 
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by wdcisco:
WOW! Awesome~! [Eek!] Thanks Ace! I can always count on you for a full explanation [Wink]

I will try to call this keith guy wednesday or thursday...

I forgot where I read it...but you said you worked at a call center...

What is the company?

Merry Christmas!

Time Customer service....handle all magaizines by time inc, national geo, a few other publishers
 
Posted by wdcisco on :
 
Cool..sounds interesting...!!

I'll let you know when I get my prodigy account started [Wink]
 
Posted by Jason0352 on :
 
ACE, awsome breakdown of your trading style man, real enlightening. You say you use margin for the big board stocks. Approx how much would you leverage for these big boards to realise a descent amount of profit? Margin scares me as I have been trading for the past year with a Choicetrade cash account. But I think one of my new years resolutions will be to switch to Prodigy Trading.
 
Posted by wdcisco on :
 
Ace,

On question--since you already have an account with prodigy...

Do they charge you anything extra for the 4x margin?

Thanks bro!
 
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jason0352:
ACE, awsome breakdown of your trading style man, real enlightening. You say you use margin for the big board stocks. Approx how much would you leverage for these big boards to realise a descent amount of profit? Margin scares me as I have been trading for the past year with a Choicetrade cash account. But I think one of my new years resolutions will be to switch to Prodigy Trading.

Well overnight, you get 2x buying power. So if you have 10k, you can buy 20k worth of stocks to hold overnight! If a stock goes up 10% you would make 2k off of 20k, instead of just 1k off of 10k. Same goes with the losses.

It's realy not that risky if you buy the best, safest, and most predictable stocks...when they are oversold. Which I just use the basics, like stochastics close to or under 20 and RSI close to or under 30. Also I wait for the MACD to cross. If I use Margin I use the safe stocks to make consistant good gains! AAPL and GOOG are awesome. I'll post some charts! My advice would be to trade AAPL...It has been a 20 bagger since the IPOD came out...and it's still a baby...It's gonna make huge moves the next few years! Now if you can always sell close to the high and buy close to the low...you can make 1000's of percent gains...here's some charts to show how easy it is....This is a 60 minute chart..so each candle is 60 minutes...which is more precise than a daily for swing trading IMO! I cirlced when the MACD crossed signaling a buy, and circled when stochastics were around or under 20, which is when you should watch, and wait for the MACD to cross! I didn't circle the sell signals, but that would have been when the RSI was over 70 or when the MACD lines crossed down...meaning the green crossed under the red!

And the amazing thing is this is this chart is just over 1 month...In one month you could have made those great trades! If you compound those gains and multiply that by 12....you can be rich! If the markets get shakey...that just means more buy and sell opportuities...just read the charts! For 60 or 30 minute charts you have to pay at stockcharts, but it pays for itself!

 -
 
Posted by T e x on :
 
calm down...

lol, have some egg nog
 
Posted by Bottomfeeder on :
 
And I see I am not the only one up this time of day researching stocks and reading this board.
 
Posted by PCola77 on :
 
Ace, what do you mean by Apple is just a baby?
 
Posted by PCola77 on :
 
Also Ace, looking at your chart and reading your post, you say "Which I just use the basics, like stochastics close to or under 20 and RSI close to or under 30. Also I wait for the MACD to cross."

I don't see any places on your chart where the 3 all occur.

the first point where you have circled MACD and Stochs, by the time the MACDs cross, the Stochs are at like 80.

The second circle on the stochs occurs when the RSI is at about 50, as are the stochs.

The third circle, the MACDs don't cross until the stochs are over 80.

And the fourth circle is similar, in taht the MACDs don't cross until the stochs look to be above 50.

Did you actaully trade any of these, or were you recently looking at it restrospectively? If it's retrospective, I think you may be inadvertantly biasing yourself to look for patterns in times right before it goes up that aren't really there.

Not trying to be a jerk, it happens to the best.
 
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by PCola77:
Also Ace, looking at your chart and reading your post, you say "Which I just use the basics, like stochastics close to or under 20 and RSI close to or under 30. Also I wait for the MACD to cross."

I don't see any places on your chart where the 3 all occur.

the first point where you have circled MACD and Stochs, by the time the MACDs cross, the Stochs are at like 80.

The second circle on the stochs occurs when the RSI is at about 50, as are the stochs.

The third circle, the MACDs don't cross until the stochs are over 80.

And the fourth circle is similar, in taht the MACDs don't cross until the stochs look to be above 50.

Did you actaully trade any of these, or were you recently looking at it restrospectively? If it's retrospective, I think you may be inadvertantly biasing yourself to look for patterns in times right before it goes up that aren't really there.

Not trying to be a jerk, it happens to the best.

Patterns that aren't realy there.....LoL..yeah ok! That's funny!

What's also funny when you say the RSI was "LIKE" 80 [Big Grin] ....it either was or wasn't [Wink] ....and it wasn't 80 at the time, LoL... [Big Grin]

When ever stocks like AAPL or GOOG's MACD crossover or stochastics ave under 20....It's obvious what's gonna happen. [Cool]

And on the third one...it doesn't matter if the stochs were over 80 when the macd crossed...cause it stayed over 80 for days...that happens all the time with AAPL and GOOG, cause they always get tons of buying...that proves the macd signal was correct!

put some glasses on and re-read the chart

And even when the stochastics are over sold or over bought on aaple or google...that's just when you start looking for the MACD crossover....Sometimes the stochastics can be oversold or over bought for days when institutions are buying and selling... [Wink] That's why I love MACD the best!

I'm not sure what chart you were looking at, but those signals are crystal clear to me!!!

Here this might help you....

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OR8vwFv-5iU

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Hz4tuWGQqfo&feature=related

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4ybk72R9_90

http://youtube.com/watch?v=k9nds4OpA2I

http://youtube.com/watch?v=XCcg7a1XR2E&feature=related
 
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
 
PCola77...Hey!

I just wanted to appolagize to you...after reading my post, I don't like they way I came off! Especialy since you are one of the posters at allstocks I have a lot of respect for.

To be honest, I naturaly have a deffensive/stubborn personality, so sometimes I react the wrong way....so I appolagize!

But you did give me an idea to start a thread over here...I'm starting a thread to post T.A. videos for newbies and who ever is intersted...check back later!
 
Posted by BooDog on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Ace of Spades:
PCola77...Hey!


But you did give me an idea to start a thread over here...I'm starting a thread to post T.A. videos for newbies and who ever is intersted...check back later!

Great idea Ace.
 
Posted by PCola77 on :
 
LOL, glad you apologized, I was gonna lay the smack down [Razz]

No, but really, I looked at only the chart that you posted, and still maintain my stance. When you say "like stochastics close to or under 20 and RSI close to or under 30. Also I wait for the MACD to cross" and there are no points that I see in which all three occur simultaneously, it makes your post confusing. When you're posting about something that you do, in addition to describing it, and it's not easy to follow, it's not a good post, in my opinion.

Seriously, if you want to be helpful, re-read your post, with the chart in front of you, and either find where your three qualifications all intersect, or re-word your post to say what you actually mean.

You obviously know what you mean, but that doesn't hlp people that are trying to follow it.

Make sense?
 
Posted by wdcisco on :
 
The stochastics look like they are the most reliable--for performance stocks like aaple, goog etc...

Just my opinion-- [Wink]
 
Posted by PCola77 on :
 
by the way Ace, your "I'm not sure what chart you were looking at, but those signals are crystal clear to me!!!" is exactly my point. if you're trying to help people who they aren't "crystal clear" to, then i don't think you did a very good job. And if your intent was not to help explain anythign, then what was the point?

The reason I say this is because I have yet to find someone who reads charts that can give me a set system that they use that doesn't involve judgement that actually can be proven to make money.

I created a database to backtest rules, and have yet to find one that would consistently have made money over the long haul. I don't doubt that there are people that can do well reading charts, but my theory is that people that can do so have more "guidelines" than "rules" when looking at charts.

Like someone can't say "I buy when X, Y, and Z happen, and sell when A, B, and C happen" and make money over time, but there are undoubtedly people who can say "I look at some of the followign things, and then have a gut feeling about what to do." there is no way to test that, so honestly, it doesn't interest me.

I'm looking for ways that are easily documentable, and can be implemented systematically, vs individually using personal judgement.

So whenever someone puts out a "system" taht they use, and say flat out "I look for x, y, and z" I first try to make sure that they are saying exactly what they mean, and second, I test it, and see if they are correct taht it tends to work more often then it doesn't.
 
Posted by chuck9 on :
 
PC, I agree with you, there are just too many variables for a stand-alone system to be that accurate.

Back testing,what type of software do you have that you use for back testing?

chuck  -
 
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
 
PCOLA and chuck 9....you raise good points

On that chart I wasn't circling precise entry points, I was just showing what I meant by being oversold in general

If you read the post I made before the one with the chart...my main emphesis was on that I use the 60 minute charts for swing trading.

But you can bring up any one month period in 2007 for google and apple...and pretty much every time the MACD crossed after a nice dip on the 60 minute chart...it went up nicely...you can do that a few times a month. That on chart I posted for apple in the month of December is proof of that!

Also if you look at the Dow chart, you will notice that the dow started it's rally on dec 18th and so did all the main stocks....the 60 minute chart And following the DOW was my main emphesis, for making a fewe solid trades a month, on AAPL and GOOG! It wasn't to circle precise entry points!
 
Posted by PCola77 on :
 
Ace, is there really a 30 trade per month minimum at Prodigy, and you have to sign a 2-year contract? Damn, that's close to $6,000 in fees for two years. Seems a bit out of control considering your favorite thing about them was being able to daytrade with only $2500. Fees would be 120% of initial capital, if that were true. I'm guessing that there's a mix-up somewhere, but it's a pretty important issue to get straightened out, IMO.
 
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
 
You don't have to stay with them for two years...call keith and ask him? Also you dont have to do that many trades per month. thats just if you want to software fee waived which is $100 for omni pro! And if you don't make the minimum number of trades a month, they are lenient! Don't I didn't make that many trades the first few months, but I was never charged. But if you do one round trip a day you will make it any way!

But with other brokers restricting trades on penny stocks, and not being able to trade when you want....prodigy more than pays for itself....so many new traders make bad trades cause they have to think about round trips, and settled funds!

Keith can answer all these questions....isn't that normaly would you do...call your broker about these questions?
 
Posted by wdcisco on :
 
Yeah..I'll call him again tomorrow...

Thanks.
 
Posted by Ace of Spades on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by wdcisco:
Yeah..I'll call him again tomorrow...

Thanks.

Do you ever get the feeling of deja vu [Confused]

We are having the same conversation in two threads...LoL [Big Grin]
 
Posted by wdcisco on :
 
LOL...yeah...

g'nite!
 
Posted by Machiavelli on :
 
i rather stick to choicetrade and as for indicators i really only need one as Jo can attest to this about my trades or searches for stocks... the RSI... I don't see the RSI as a overbought/oversold oscillator/indicator... instead i see it strictly in terms of Support/Resistance lines... if a stock is above RSI 50 then i see the 50 line as Support and the 80 line as Resistance... if a stock is below the 50 line then i see the 50 line as Resistance and the 20 line as Support...

So the way I trade is i want to buy at the bottom then i wait for a stock to bounce off the 50 line if it is above the 50 line to begin with and is in decline... you can also do this with the 20 line... in these 2 cases you would go Long...

If you want to short stocks then you do the opposite... you wait for it to bounce off the 80 line if above the RSI 50 and if it's below the 50 line... then you wait for it to bounce off the 50 line... hope im being clear without visual charts... Sometimes flukes happen like when a stock goes lower then RSI 20 or above RSI 80... but for the most part i wait for those "bounces"... if the "bounces" do not occur I do not buy because then the 20,50, and 80 lines become the opposite of what they were... From Support they become Resistance and from Resistance they become Support... etc... any other indicators that I use just supplement the RSI but otherwise i pay more attention to the RSI then anything else... the other ones that i use are:

1. Volume
2. MA's
3. MACD (my least favorite)
4. Candlesticks
 
Posted by chuck9 on :
 
Mach, what type of trading, do you do? Are you a swing trader, hit-and-run trader, long-term or possibly a gap trader?
chuck  -
 
Posted by Machiavelli on :
 
swing and position trading since i work a day job and do not have time for day and snipe trading etc...
 
Posted by chuck9 on :
 
Mack, I understand exactly where you are coming from. Been there and done that.

I am a retired vet coming from the Vietnam era.
chuck  -
 


© 1997 - 2021 Allstocks.com. All rights reserved.

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classic™ 6.7.2