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Posted by raybond on :
 
Security

Mexican Government Aided Drug Cartels And Participated In Kidnappings, Report Reveals

By Hayes Brown posted from ThinkProgress Security on Feb 21, 2013 at 5:40 pm


Security forces in the Mexican government may have been cooperating to facilitate hundreds of “enforced disappearances” of citizens as part of the failing struggle to rein in drug gangs, according to a new report.

Mexico has been steeped in a conflict with drug cartels for the last six years, resulting in the death of over 50,000 Mexican civilians. During the course of that conflict, hundreds of civilians have gone missing — or “disappeared” — and are presumed to be dead. Prominent NGO Human Rights Watch, in their report titled “Mexico’s Disappeared: The Enduring Cost of a Legacy Ignored,” alleges that the government of former Mexican President Felipe Calderón has not only failed to bring disappearances under control, but actively taken part in some instances:


Human Rights Watch has documented nearly 250 such “disappearances” that have occurred since 2007. In more than 140 of these cases, evidence suggests that these were enforced disappearances—meaning that state agents participated directly in the crime, or indirectly through support or acquiescence. These crimes were committed by members of every security force involved in public security operations, sometimes acting in conjunction with organized crime. In the remaining cases, we were not able to determine based on available evidence whether state actors participated in the crime, though they may have.

The report goes on to describe several of those disappearances in-depth, including the beatings by local police, detentions by federal police, and possible shootings ordered by the Navy. Calderon’s war on the cartels did not go as planned, with actions to rein in fighting between organized crime rings instead leading to greater bloodshed. By conquering all elements of crime and supplanting the government, the Zetas — the largest of the cartels — currently controls the third-largest state in Mexico.

In the end, Human Rights Watch urged newly sworn-in President Peña Nieto to take action to reverse the policies of his predecessor. “While disappearances may have started on Calderón’s watch, they did not end with his term,” Human Rights Watch Americas Director José Miguel Vivanco said in a release. In a visit to the White House in November, Nieto pledged to reduce violence within his country, without offering details on how.

Instability in Mexico is finally making its way into the politics of the United States, though in the context of border security and immigration reform rather than the war on drugs. During a town hall meeting, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) faced down a constituent who said invading Mexico was necessary to “clean up the cartels.” Despite the worries of many conservatives, the achieved nearly all of the targets for border enforcement in 2007, with 81 percent of the U.S.-Mexico border now meeting one of the top three levels of “operational control” by U.S. enforcement officials.
 
Posted by buckstalker on :
 
I have a solution to this problem...

Force those pesky civilians to give up their guns...
 
Posted by raybond on :
 
you are right buck that will do the job
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
guns are illegal in Mexcio already! ahbenn there many many times and seen more guns "displayed" by civilians and federales alike than i ever have here in the USA where they are legal..

banning things jesplain don't work!
i have driven by this sign about 100 times [Wink]
i have heard more automatic gunfire in the distnce there than anyplace i have ever been except at US govt. miltary firing ranges.

 -
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
Mictlantecuhtli never left Mexico, his followers are the reason Mexico has the problems it has today, it's not the USA:

 -
 
Posted by buckstalker on :
 
I know that Glassy...I was attempting to use sarcasm to make a point to Ray as to just how well gun laws work...

quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
guns are illegal in Mexcio already! ahbenn there many many times and seen more guns "displayed" by civilians and federales alike than i ever have here in the USA where they are legal..

banning things jesplain don't work!
i have driven by this sign about 100 times [Wink]
i have heard more automatic gunfire in the distnce there than anyplace i have ever been except at US govt. miltary firing ranges.

 -


 
Posted by glassman on :
 
he didn't seem to get it. then "they" blame US for the probelms "they" have...
 
Posted by Upside on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
he didn't seem to get it. then "they" blame US for the probelms "they" have...

She was dancing when I seen her, In a Mexican cantina
In a neighborhood they call LaZona Roja ....
She had a child's smile, but she told me in a while
It would take a lot of gold to get to know her...

Whoops, sorry about that.....brief flashback there.

No, I think Ray got it alright, he just realized that there's no way for him to defend his position.
 
Posted by raybond on :
 
yes i did understand your post buck, but you seem to have wild dreams about my position. Show me one post i have ever posted that has declared i am for banning any gun. As for what I am for is back ground checksyou aren't and that does not bother me becase that will go down.
 
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
You know Raybond that's not where the problem lies. When that does't work they will go to the next step and eventually ban all guns.

That's the government's way of easing us into losing our rights. And We the People are suppose to be the government. Are we?

-
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by Upside:
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
he didn't seem to get it. then "they" blame US for the probelms "they" have...

She was dancing when I seen her, In a Mexican cantina
In a neighborhood they call LaZona Roja ....
She had a child's smile, but she told me in a while
It would take a lot of gold to get to know her...

Whoops, sorry about that.....brief flashback there.

No, I think Ray got it alright, he just realized that there's no way for him to defend his position.

that's Acapulco Goldie, by Dr. Hook... he knows how to get a party rollin' [Wink]
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
this is Pennicilin Penny, Acapulco Goldies cousin...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-14wmaodKh4
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
i think this one was his best:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV13cqMgeBM
 
Posted by raybond on :
 
Posted by I wish I had

You know Raybond that's not where the problem lies. When that does't work they will go to the next step and eventually ban all guns.

That's the government's way of easing us into losing our rights. And We the People are suppose to be the government. Are we?

- -----------------------------------------------

If that is the case I will be against banning guns.

However I feel that the progression that you are talking about will not take place
 
Posted by Upside on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
i think this one was his best:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV13cqMgeBM

Dr. Hook was one of the first bands I was "into" after emerging from childhood, most notably Belly Up. They were a great drug/drinking band for a few years before they went disco.

And Glass, you know that you're the last guy I'd correct about almost anything but referring to a Dr. Hook song as "his" best is akin to saying "and by the way, which one's Pink".
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
i know, i should say this is the one i liked the best...

freakers ball would be second favorite
 
Posted by Upside on :
 
Freakers Ball was our ballad for a while in our high school days. Whenever someone would have a party it was the song that would kick the whole thing off. It had to be played before the first joint was fired up.

Definitely dated now but anyone growing up in that era could relate to it.
 
Posted by NR on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
Mictlantecuhtli never left Mexico, his followers are the reason Mexico has the problems it has today, it's not the USA:

 -

Mictlantechuhtli still has followers in Mexico?
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
they feminised and Catholisized him into Santa Muerte. i'm suprised no-one else asked about this. they still celebrate the dia de muertos - day of the dead even tho the Church officially discourages this...
tehcnically i was being unfair to call anyone a follower of Mictlantechuhtli as i understand it they made offering or tributes to him rather than actaully following him... on the other hand? what's been going on down there lately does sem to indicte "follower" type behavior...

it has been very common for ancient religious icons to be absorbed into and reformed it Christian icons - christmas trees have nada in common with the birth of Christ for instance..
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
can you imagine what it would have been like for Preists coming from Spain to Tenochtitltan in the 1500's fresh off the inquisition and finding people who did human scrfices openly as part of their regular religiosu ceremony? had to shake them to their foundations,,,
 
Posted by NR on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
they feminised and Catholisized him into Santa Muerte. i'm suprised no-one else asked about this. they still celebrate the dia de muertos - day of the dead even tho the Church officially discourages this...
tehcnically i was being unfair to call anyone a follower of Mictlantechuhtli as i understand it they made offering or tributes to him rather than actaully following him... on the other hand? what's been going on down there lately does sem to indicte "follower" type behavior...

it has been very common for ancient religious icons to be absorbed into and reformed it Christian icons - christmas trees have nada in common with the birth of Christ for instance..

I guess I shouldn't be that surprised that the ghosts of Aztec religion still exist today among Catholics in Mexico, I just never put much thought to it.

I've been reading some of the translated works of Fray Diego Duran lately, and some other related articles that touch on the subject of Aztec religion and how it was "absorbed" it the religion of the Spanish. Though chastised during his time for giving a voice to "heathen" culture and religion, it is because of priests like Duran that we know as much as we do about the subject.

This "absorption" was made easier by the fact that several Aztec holidays were celebrated very close to the same time as Catholic holidays. So long as the natives refrained from certain practices in the presence of the Spanish, added a Catholic name and a few crosses to their holiday, and pretended they had converted, they were free to practice their religion almost the same as they had been before the Spanish came along.

The irony lies in that priests like Duran had been charged with the duty of learning Aztec culture and religion by superiors in the Catholic church so that it could be identified, and then destroyed.
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
the Catholics did the same as they took over northern europe too..

Christmas Day is the first day that the sun NOTICABLY begins to increase day length... the actual day is Dec 22nd, but it's not really measurable to the naked eye until the 25th...

it's always amazed me how much more advanced the Native American calendars were than the european ones..
 
Posted by NR on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
...

it's always amazed me how much more advanced the Native American calendars were than the european ones..

Great point Glass, I wonder if any scholars out there have attempted to address that. Knowing the stars is important for navigation, both on land and at night, especially for nomadic tribes, but the Mayans, Incans and Aztecs weren't really nomadic, though they had been nomadic more recently than any group of Europeans had been.

The Aztecs had been nomadic as recently as 200-300 years before the Spanish showed up but it is mainly the Mayans who are known for their calendar.
 


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