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Posted by glassman on :
 
be smart democrats and Liberals.

here's the numbers.

petition to increase gun control? 100,000 signatures.

background checks to buy a new gun since '98? 140 MILLION. you will waste all of your political capital on this and lose your credibility. the country will suffer. don't do this, we have problems that CAN be fixed by working together. This issue is settled law, and the Cosntitution is clear. "shall not be infringed".

source: http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/nics
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
i'm always amused at how conspiracy theorists get treated by the general public.

i first got into "conspiracy theory" in general as real youngster reading Chariots of the Gods. how does this relate? the govt "knows" soemthign about aliens they ain't telling us- right?

well, belief in Ancient Aliens goes against religious beliefs and against the Govenrment. the Governmnt (and the Churches at one time) wants to be the end-all be-all of power and if the aliens exist? they are more peowerfull than the mere mortals running hte govt, so "the governmnet" doesn't like the competition...

it's importatn to the people who want to rule that the people bieng ruled have no questions about their right to power and whether or not they really do have the power....

BTW? i do not belive "the government" is a single entity out to control all of our minds.

i know tho that people in the government struggle with each other for power and control over each other and the rest of us....

so tell me true, does this sound like conspiracy theory or conspiracy fact?

A LITTLE GUN HISTORY
In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. >From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated
In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 191
7, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated.
China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were rounded up and exterminated
Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.
Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.
 

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Posted by raybond on :
 
Senator Vows To Introduce New Assault Weapons Ban On The First Day Of Congress

By Aviva Shen on Dec 16, 2012 at 10:36 am


On MSNBC’s ‘Meet the Press’ Sunday morning, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-CA) promised to introduce a new assault weapons ban on the first day of the new Congress, challenging President Obama to back the bill. Feinstein sponsored the federal assault weapons ban that expired in 2004, and has been working on a new ban since the Aurora movie theater shooting in July. Four shooting sprees later, Feinstein has vowed to introduce the legislation on the first day of the 113th Congress.

Feinstein’s assault weapons ban will force Obama to take a stance on gun control after many promises to address the issue. The senator told ‘Meet the Press’ host David Gregory that her ban would cover the sale and importation of assault weapons, certain kinds of bullets, big drums and extended magazines:


I can tell you that [Obama] is going to have a bill to lead on because it’s a first-day bill I’m going to introduce in the Senate and the same bill is going to be introduced in the House. A bill to ban assault weapons. It will ban the sale, the importation, and the possession — not retroactively but perspectively. And it will ban the same of big clips, drums, or strips of big bullets. So there will be a bill. We’ve been working on it now a year.

In the wake of the elementary school shooting in Newtown, CT on Friday that left 28 people dead, the majority of whom were children, Obama gave an emotional speech calling for lawmakers to put politics aside and “take meaningful action to prevent more tragedies like these.” Gun control measures have wide support among Americans, including members of the National Rifle Association, the most powerful gun lobby in the world. The Newtown elementary school gunman, 20-year-old Adam Lanza, primarily used a Bushmaster .223 semi-automatic rifle.


Update



Sen. Frank Lautenberg (D-NJ) also announced Monday that he will prepare a ban on high-capacity clips, which he first introduced after the Aurora movie theater shooting
 

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Posted by rounder1 on :
 
Glass, that last post is exactly correct. I hope to get some time to lay out another long rant about thia issue.... maybe tomorrow.

Newtown was a terrible incident.... and I will venture being perceived as an azzhole.... this while terrbile, is being exacerbated because of the age of the victims.... we all feel that evil gut wrenching twinge at the thought of a happy child forever silenced at the point of a gun.

Hundreds of thousands of Americans have died in service to our country to preserve our constitution.... and specifically our Bill Of Rights..... 2nd ammendment included..... people need to realize that it is the failsafe anmendment! I do not think it is by accident that the ammendments are numbered as they are... the first alliws u to organize intellectually.... the second to take action when its warranted.

Don't forget, the BOR was added to insure the public trust in our infant government after the Constitution was drafted... it was demanded by people that knew how corrupt and oppressive a government can become.

Even under these awful circumstances..... do not allow emotion or kneejerk legislation to change "we the people" to "we the government's b%*#$es."

A lot of you guys have served this country..... maybe list friends or family in service to thia country.... allowing rights to be hi-hacked or surrendered is a disservice to those that served to preserve an idea that is a hell of a lot more important than this tragedy.... and there is the azzhole.... but I will own that..... this ain't about being able to hunt.... it ain't about feelin powerful..... its about guaraunteeing thar even if its not our generation that has to do it, we preaerve the right of future generations to meet whatever challenges they face....that is precisely why its in the BOR.....

Please forgive any typos..... doin this on my phone......I think we should ban touchscreens!
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
and as you can see in the ohter thread? i am alrady being called full of chit by people for trying to be stragihtforward about the problem..

i know we will be called all kinds of things- unsympathetic etc... i am just looking further down theroad than many
 

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Posted by CashCowMoo on :
 
Glass, when you talk to liberals and other various Democrats what do you expect when it comes to the 2nd amendment?

They dont really care about the constitution. To many of them it needs to be "changed", or done away with.

I know some libs that own guns and some conceal and carry. Its a shocking match yet pretty cool in the same way.
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
alot of GOPs and conservatives don't care about the Constituion either cashcow- they have differnt constituencies that keep them in power, but it is staying in power that motivates most of them.
 

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Posted by CashCowMoo on :
 
Why wouldnt you want to stay in power? The perks of a career politician most of us will never even know about. Talk about pampered! Sure it is a lot of stress, but think about the contacts in your cell phone. OH, and insider trading is legal for you to do. Who cares about your congressional salary when you can make millions on stock trades on the kind of info they have.
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
OK i got shared this article a littel while ago...

been trying to figure out if it's ahoax... Paragould is in Arkansas, not a place where you expect to be required to present your papers...

"[Police are] going to be in SWAT gear and have AR-15s around their neck," Stovall said. "If you're out walking, we're going to stop you, ask why you're out walking, check for your ID."

Stovall said while some people may be offended by the actions of his department, they should not be.

"We're going to do it to everybody," he said. "Criminals don't like being talked to."


http://www.paragoulddailypress.com/articles/2012/12/15/top_story/doc50cbbb312e24 1511092932.txt
 

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Posted by CashCowMoo on :
 
W-T-F. How is that allowed?
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
seems to me like it has to be a hoax.... you know hw the internet is... people always stirring the pot...
like several of the shooter conspiracies that are floating the net...

however if it's a hoax? i couldn't figure it yet. maybe Pagan can pop the balloon?

i will say this much cash, i expect fascism to come from the Far Right, like rayond said, i agree with him that far on that part.

the problem is that some well meaning leftie will pass the laws (for our own good) that will allow the corporate overlord fascist and politicians to take full control...

that's what China is becoming, a single political party that owns all of the industrial complex and hires 80% of all people employed, then collects taxes from them too.... not a pretty sight IMO...
the nazi's called themselves Socialists and opposed the Commies in Russia.... yet Americans seem to equate socialism and communism
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
like i said casshcow, the lefties will take awy the rights adn the ultra-rigth will jump all over us. I am still waiting for a "real" news outlet to pick this story up... However this atttitude is not uncommon in the South, the cops here have no problem stopping you and demanding ID :

Paragould, Arkansas Police to Check Everyone's ID in 2013

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By Michael Allen, Mon, December 17, 2012

Paragould, Arkansas has only 25,000 people, but is one of the most dangerous towns in America.

According to statistics from city-data.com, Paragould has had a property crime index rating that is more than double the national average since 2007. Rapes, burglaries, thefts and assaults are also above the national average.

At a town hall meeting, last Thursday, Mayor Mike Gaskill and Police Chief Todd Stovall endorsed a plan to send police in SWAT gear and carrying AR-15s into downtown Paragould starting in 2013, reports the Paragould Daily Press.

Chief Stovall told the Paragould Daily Press: "This fear is what's given us the reason to do this. Once I have stats and people saying they're scared, we can do this. It allows us to do what we're fixing to do."

"If you're out walking, we're going to stop you, ask why you're out walking, check for your ID. To ask you for your ID, I have to have a reason."

"Well, I've got statistical reasons that say I've got a lot of crime right now, which gives me probable cause to ask what you're doing out. Then when I add that people are scared…then that gives us even more [reason] to ask why are you here and what are you doing in this area."

Mayor Gaskill added: "They may not be doing anything but walking their dog, but they're going to have to prove it."

Chief Stovall explained how martial law will work under his Street Crimes Unit: “We will be asking for picture identification. We will be ascertaining where the subject lives and what they are doing in the area. We will be keeping a record of those we contact."


http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/crime/paragould-arkansas-police-check-eve ryones-id-2013


They may not be doing anything but walking their dog, but they're going to have to prove it.? that's the USSR and China dude.... guilty until proven innoconet?
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
Ok, so here's anbother idea that i can't verify thru a reputable news outlet (and yes ray, i knew it was unlikley that morgan freemn had repsonded to the shooting that quickly, it was facebook cirulated thing... social media is highly unreliable..

Newser) – Would you feel safer sending your kids to school if the National Guard was outside? Well, that could be a possibility if Barbara Boxer has her way. The California senator has introduced a bill that would allow local governments to use the Guard to enhance school security, Politico reports. That could mean Guard troops literally standing outside school entrances, or it could mean putting them to work improving school infrastructure, or even helping police with desk work, so that more cops could guard schools.

The bill is modeled on legislation that allowed states to use the Guard to help with border security. She said some of the $640 billion spent on national defense should be used to protect schools—"Is it not part of the national defense to make sure our children are safe?" Meanwhile, some states are considering the idea of arming teachers.

http://www.newser.com/story/159613/bill-would-have-national-guard-protect-school s.html

this how it happens Rayray, the military does it for our own good at first, but ehn som e4 Star gets too many ideas.... and the next thing you know?the military is running everything...
 

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Posted by raybond on :
 
who knows where this thing will end. Or how it willend. It sure has stired the pot. And I feel it needed to be stired.

And the nra like norquist needs a good kick in the ass.
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by raybond:
who knows where this thing will end. Or how it willend. It sure has stired the pot. And I feel it needed to be stired.

And the nra like norquist needs a good kick in the ass.

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quote:

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Originally posted by raybond:
your right about a criminal he will get what he needs somehow

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quote:

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Originally posted by raybond:
your right about a criminal he will get what he needs somehow

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quote:

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Originally posted by raybond:
As for crazy people they most likley get one like lenza got his. From what I hear his mother had the fire arms secure. He broke into her secured place and got them.

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quote:

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Originally posted by IWISHIHAD:
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-gun-buyback-20121228,0,1314093.story

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Unbelievable....Great place to destroy your evidence....right under their noses. WTF.

Beck acknowledged that the weapons would not be checked for connections to crimes before being melted down. He said the sheer number would make that difficult, and he does not want to deter people from turning in firearms.

The shear number???? Can they be serious? It would take 1 man an hour or maybe two to enter in to database.
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
for those who think they know history? it ain't exactly what we belive it is, non-violence is preferable, but it only works up to certain point:

Had we adopted non-violence as the weapon of the strong, because we realised that it was more effective than any other weapon, in fact the mightiest force in the world, we would have made use of its full potency and not have discarded it as soon as the fight against the British was over or we were in a position to wield conventional weapons. But as I have already said, we adopted it out of our helplessness. If we had the atom bomb, we would have used it against the British.
Speech (16 June 1947) as the official date for Indian independence approached (15 August 1947) , as quoted in Mahatma Gandhi : The Last Phase (1958) by Pyarelal Nayyar, p. 326.
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
sorry, i put that out without some prologue.

i like old movies an d particularly british and European ones because they often left he studio and filmed out n the real world. I was watching a mystery with a pre Sherlock Basil Rathbone set in some very posh British sitting rooms.. yo know the kind with 20,000 leather bound books and knicknack from all ver the world and it got me thinking how popular the british shows on PBS are today about the Gentry and the Serving Class and how they interacted (upstairs downstair and downton abbey)-
i watch these show with skepticism becuase i see the one thing that is missing from them, and that is how the Brits maintained their gentrified living style.... well it was Colonial Rule that did it... and colonial rule is just slavery on a big scale.... and the differnce betwenn the rulers and the ruled is weaponry and the possesission thereof... i realise tyhat people want to belive the humanity has moved on from that... that's just wishful thinking.....


"Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest." -Mahatma Gandhi in his An Autobiography, pg 446
 

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Posted by buckstalker on :
 
Glass...have you been watching the price on AR-15's and ammo for them?

Everything has doubled + in the last 2 weeks...
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
between the flubug here and the holidays, i haven't been watching, but i have a rifle produced by Bushmaster that predates their ar-15 production. it's a 223 semi, foldin stock, made with a milled billet reciever instead of a casted receiver like the colt and ar-15's..... it was already priceless because they are so rare. now i think it may have doubled again... i have only ever found two pictures of them on the web.... i'd never seen or heard of this rifle before the guy who traded it to me brought it out... i had a sweet mauser bolt action with a 257 roberts bull barrel he really wanted from me bad and he threw this in as bonus thinking it was junk cuz it sort of looks like junk-it did get me to do the trade adn i've had it for twenty years and only fired it once to verify it works... i may be auctioning it off real soon if htis keeps up... i did alot that when i livd in VA and the ban then was th ebest thing that had ever happened to the gun dealers,, they were taking $$$ in hand over fist and the swaps at gun show ere unbelivable..
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
looks rough but it put busmastr in the game, the action is actually better in most ways then the AR sytem and recevier is milled off a single peice of billtet.. no thin wall casting here:


 

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Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-virginia-guns-20121224,0,10 72851.story

=
 

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Posted by raybond on :
 
posted by glassman

Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest." -Mahatma Gandhi

-------------------------------------------------

Actully glass Gandhi peace ful revolution worked in India. Because it was a peaceful economic revolution.

As where the rebellion in India called the sepoy rebellion that was boiling for years. and started over Indian soldiers haveing to place there mouths over the 303 lee enfield paper sealed carthrige that was supposed to be sealed with pig and cow fat. This started in 1850's and was one of the biggest and bloodist Armed rebellions in the history world. And the Indians were slaughtered. The sepoys were armed and trained by the Brits and were good soldiers. I am sure this historical fact wether wrote in a book or not was in the back of Gandhi's mind and he was bound to try a different path.

I do know from reading articles about gandhi that he was studing the great pacifist movements in the world and there leaders such as Jesus Christ. and he was convinced this was the only direction for india. not all cultures and movements are the same and not all need guns and armies. India is sure one of the examples.
 

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Posted by raybond on :
 
Obama Pledges To Push For Gun Control Measures If ‘American People Decide It’s Important’

By Igor Volsky on Dec 30, 2012 at 10:20 am


President Obama called the Dec. 14th shooting in Newtown, Connecticut “the worst day of my presidency,” and said during a rare interview on Meet The Press, that he will propose a package of reforms that will likely include new regulations on assault-rifles and high-capacity ammunition clips, and enhanced background checks for gun purchases. A commission headed by Vice President Joe Biden is currently drafting gun safety recommendations.

But Obama stressed that reform cannot happen without broad public support, suggesting that he will rally public opinion for sensible gun safety regulations or drop the effort if Americans are not on board.

“We’re not going to get this done unless the American people decide it’s important and so this is not going to be a matter of me spending political capital. One of the things that you learn having now been in this office for four years. The old adage of Abraham Lincoln’s, ‘with public opinion there is nothing you can’t do and without public opinion there is very little you can get done in this town.’”
Obama also rejected the National Rifle Association’s (NRA) call for more guns in schools, arguing that “the vast majority of the American people are skeptical that that somehow is going to solve our problem.” He promised to listen to all sides of the gun debate before making any legislative recommendations.

“It is not enough for us to say, ‘This is too hard so we’re not going to try,’” Obama said. “So what I intend to do is I will call all the stakeholders together. I will meet with Republicans. I will meet with Democrats. I will talk to anybody. I think there are a vast majority of responsible gun owners out there who recognize that we can’t have a situation in which somebody with severe psychological problems is able to get the kind of high capacity weapons that this individual in Newtown obtained and gun down our kids. And, yes, it’s going to be hard.”

Public support for gun control has increased in the wake of the shooting. A USA Today/Gallup poll released Thursday found that support for stricter guns laws is at its highest since 2004, with 47 percent now favor passing new gun laws rather than simply ramping up enforcement of current law. Fifty-eight percent called for stricter gun laws, a 15-point jump since October 2011.
 

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Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
Tell these guys below about gun laws.

We forget so quickly, 2013 and the crap goes on.

Another year in harms way for our troops with more promises.

No major elections coming, who cares about our troops, except their families and friends.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/05/30/153994283/no-2-u-s-commander-in-a fghanistan-would-like-68-000-troops-into-next-year

I was watching the below show the other night and could not believe what i saw.

http://www.heroturko.me/documentaries/3115163-discovery-channel-heroes-of-hells- highway-2012-complete-720p-hdtv-x264-dhd.html

=
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
ray, actually about Ghnadi? i knew whatyoutold me to be true. but Ray, you shoulr take that quote of his to heart because he said it in speech to the wolrd after he won independance.

in th eend? non-violence only worked because the people with the guns did not choose to become worse buthcers than htye already had been. ghandi's peaceful revolution only worked becuase he was dealing with peopel ON THE VERGE of becoming enlightened. and like he said? IF he could have won with conventiaonl arms? he would have done it... BTW? India is now nuclear wolrd power, so you can take all your peace and love stuff and put it where it belongs, on the dream shelf. it is a great, nice dream, but we be human beings not angels.
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
at to public opinion? ray, public opinion is being created by the mass media who represetn corporate interests. they ALREADY run the country, they've written nearly every law on the books and bought the congrress and even the current WH to implemnt them and enforce them... that is who's interest i being served in htis creation of opinion.

the guns are flying off the shleves again, just like they did last time gun ban was "imminent" that is peopel voting witheir actions, and that is what will prevail AGAIN regardless of the pain and suffering we are required to pay for our real freedom? only those willing to endure it will own that freedom, the rest will be subjects of some dictator corporate or miltiary.
china is now a corporate miltary dictatorship run by a communist party. if you like living under that type of ruls so much go their and try it for just a littel while first, before you ask for it here...
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 

 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
one last note about Ghandi ray, and i want you to thihnk long and hard about the irony of this, becuase the 'revisionists" gloss over this fact too.. even my wife with phd didn't know this and was deeply dismayed about never being "taugh" it by the "great universities" full of liberals andpeaceniks that we have:

Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi (often called Mahatma Gandhi) was assassinated on 30 January 1948, shot at point-blank range by Nathuram Godse. Prior to his death, there had been five unsuccessful attempts to kill Gandhi, the first occurring in 1934. Gandhi was outside on the steps of a building where a prayer meeting was going to take place. He was surrounded by a part of his family and some followers when three gunshots killed him.


If I am to die by the bullet of a mad man, I must do so smiling. There must be no anger within me. God must be in my heart and on my lips.

— Mohandas K. Gandhi, 28 January 1948, two days prior to his assassination.

 

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Posted by raybond on :
 
Don,t worry glass the Brits did use some violenceand all it did was back fire on them . I am sure that there was so much hate between the two sides that if the Indians had a nuclear bomb they would have used it.

Face it in the end under the right conditions non violoence really works with no settlements and divisions.

Gandhi might have said he would have liked to use it but he did not. He used non cooperation with no violence. he said once in a speach they can have my body but not my cooperation.

For the first time in history the indian people would not let the occuppiers use there bodies,needs in life,or larbor to make money off of. Once people are awhere of this, it is hard for the colonizers to stay. After all the only reason they are there is to extract wealth.
 

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Posted by glassman on :
 
i guess all i'm saying is that non-violence can work and should be the first move, but MLK was also a proponet of non-violence and was gunned down by mad-man as well... i think the Universe is inherantly violent, and we are part of it... even 'futurologists" fear that if we create artificial intellignece it will take part in the violence that is inherent in the fabric of reality.... i have great respect for the paths of both Ghandi and MLk, both preached non-violence and both were assassinated. I would like to think we can become "better" than that, but i also see that inabiltiy to defend oneself is an invitation to be raped and murdered by the less enlightened.
 

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Posted by raybond on :
 
Agreed.
 

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Posted by raybond on :
 
‘Armed Teacher Training Program’ Launches In 15 States

By Annie-Rose Strasser on Jan 2, 2013 at 2:15 pm


An Ohio gun owners’ group is launching an “Armed Teacher Training Program” to instruct teachers and school staff on how to shoot off firearms in the classroom.

Perhaps at the outlandish suggestion of the National Rifle Association, who last month called for armed guards in every school as a response to the tragedy at Sandy Hook elementary, such programs are popping up around the country. In Ohio, the Buckeye Firearms Foundation, along with a group called the Tactical Defense Institute, is crafting a curriculum specifically designed for teachers and school staff. A local Fox affiliate has details on who is signing up– they report that more than one third of the applicants are women, and that “more than half of the applicants work in high schools”:


As of Wednesday, the Armed Teacher Training Program has attracted more than 600 applicants from several states including Ohio, Arizona, California, Florida, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Nevada, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Texas, Washington and West Virginia.

“We knew this would be popular, but the response has exceeded out expectations,” said Jim Irvine, Chairman of the Buckeye Firearms Foundation. “People doubted if we would fill the first class. That happened in hours. This is something many in our schools have been asking about for a long time.” [...]

“No one will be forced to be armed if they choose not to. The strategy is the same as ordinary concealed carry. No one will ever know who is or is not armed. Those who seek to do harm in schools should be met with armed resistance, even before law enforcement shows up. Over time, schools will no longer be considered easy, risk-free targets.”

Arming teachers is illogical. More guns in classrooms, inevitably, will lead to accidents and unintended harm. Shootouts between teachers and gunmen is unlikely to be a net positive for students. But moreover, doesn’t get to the heart of the issue. America’s gun violence epidemic is not limited to classrooms. Gun deaths are set to outpace motor vehicle accident deaths by 2015, and the victims are diverse: Women with abusive partners, couples caught in crossfire, teens caught up in gangs, men carjacked while driving down the street, women mugged walking home through the park. The list is endless. Even in a world where arming teachers is the best solution for preventing a tragedy like Sandy Hook, it offers no hope to victims of gun violence out in the rest of society.
 

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Posted by CashCowMoo on :
 

quote:

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Originally posted by raybond:
posted by glassman

Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest." -Mahatma Gandhi

-------------------------------------------------

Actully glass Gandhi peace ful revolution worked in India. Because it was a peaceful economic revolution.

As where the rebellion in India called the sepoy rebellion that was boiling for years. and started over Indian soldiers haveing to place there mouths over the 303 lee enfield paper sealed carthrige that was supposed to be sealed with pig and cow fat. This started in 1850's and was one of the biggest and bloodist Armed rebellions in the history world. And the Indians were slaughtered. The sepoys were armed and trained by the Brits and were good soldiers. I am sure this historical fact wether wrote in a book or not was in the back of Gandhi's mind and he was bound to try a different path.

I do know from reading articles about gandhi that he was studing the great pacifist movements in the world and there leaders such as Jesus Christ. and he was convinced this was the only direction for india. not all cultures and movements are the same and not all need guns and armies. India is sure one of the examples.

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