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Posted by reidler88 on :
 
hey everyone,,, does anyone know where i can find investors??
i have a few idea's i have been working on but need the money to patent the idea's and get them out on the market,, of course all of this takes money,,, so right now i am looking for a partner with a light smile but heavy wallet.
anyone know where i can find investors?? and without having to pay $50 to join a website where there may or may not be investors...
or if anyone here wants to chat send me a private message,, i wont tell you what idea's i have, but we can discuss some other things about it,,,,

thnx
 
Posted by Pagan on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by reidler88:
hey everyone,,, does anyone know where i can find investors??
i have a few idea's i have been working on but need the money to patent the idea's and get them out on the market,, of course all of this takes money,,, so right now i am looking for a partner with a light smile but heavy wallet.
anyone know where i can find investors?? and without having to pay $50 to join a website where there may or may not be investors...
or if anyone here wants to chat send me a private message,, i wont tell you what idea's i have, but we can discuss some other things about it,,,,

thnx

I think you need to come up with an actual Prospectus of your plan and ideas(do not give away details) in a general format for the end product. IMO, that is the first step, then if it is a truly great idea, product, etc, you could then shop it around to small VC's. Really depends on the idea/product and your background as far as investor's believeing that you can make it a reality. JIMO.

PS: maybe others here will have some more ideas for you as far as investors.
 
Posted by reidler88 on :
 
yeah i know what your saying,, but i dont wanna give away details over the net,, but a plan of how it works and how i could sell it is a good idea,,,
actually i work for walmart and i know the eastern regional manager on a level where he knows i have idea's i have given him idea's to stop theft in walmarts and some idea's on how to sell products,,,,, so i am sure when i have my invention to the part where i can sell it to a mass i would use that to get it sold in walmarts,,, and once u get it in walmart your pretty much set,,, haha,,,,
i am a dreamer just lookin for my chance,, thats all i ask for,,, a chance,,,
 
Posted by Pagan on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by reidler88:
yeah i know what your saying,, but i dont wanna give away details over the net,, but a plan of how it works and how i could sell it is a good idea,,,
actually i work for walmart and i know the eastern regional manager on a level where he knows i have idea's i have given him idea's to stop theft in walmarts and some idea's on how to sell products,,,,, so i am sure when i have my invention to the part where i can sell it to a mass i would use that to get it sold in walmarts,,, and once u get it in walmart your pretty much set,,, haha,,,,
i am a dreamer just lookin for my chance,, thats all i ask for,,, a chance,,,

I agree. Do not give out exact details or designs. I highlighted a portion of my post to you. "I think you need to come up with an actual Prospectus of your plan and ideas(do not give away details) in a general format for the end product."

But you will have to have some concrete gameplan for your invention/product for potential investors to look at to make a determination on whether to invest or not. Hence the prospectus....or even a mock up of the product. Investors will wanna see something tangible...not just ideas floating in the air. It does sound like you might be on the right track with this. Good luck!
 
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
 
Reidler, when you become successful with your product, and you want to put some of that wealth into creating more wealth let me know if you are interested in Petroleum.
 
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
 
Find an angel investor (Venture Capitalist) in your area. They will scalp you for a high percentage but since you don't have the wallet to do it yourself you don't have a bargaining position. If you are serious about this venture then you are gonna have to live with that. Your local SBA should have some names and ideas for you.

Good Luck.
 
Posted by jgrecoconstr on :
 
Not trying to rain on your parade but I can give you a couple tips because getting a patent and getting in Walmart, as well as manufacturing your idea are pretty steep walls. First the patent, if what your thinking is a totally new concept or radicaly new product unlike anything else on the market then a patent attorney should only be about $5,000.00 to $7000.00 to get it done. If your idea contains concepts already patented then be prepared to re-apply numerous times at the same costs. I stopped the process after three rejections at $5k an app. The only one that made money off that was the attorney.
As far as manufacturing costs if your idea needs that you need to shop around for pricing. The internet is great for that just find a specialty web site that has the manufacturers you are looking for, electronis, clothing, plastics etc, etc,. You can list a basic idea without giving to many details when they contact you have them sign a non-disclosure agreement before you give them the entire detailed product for a quote. Most people here will jump down my throat after this statement but you need to know before you startr anything your target price. If this isn;'t a high ticket retail item then you have to go overseas to get it made. You won't be able to afford made in USA after you take out the cost to produce unless of coarse yuo are ordering 100,s of thousands in quantities. Still at that you can still save over 100% manufacturing elsewhere. You can have the greatest idea in the world but if you can't afford the cost to manufacture it won't go anywhere. You simply can't up your retail price because the market may not be able to move it.
Walmart.... simply knowing one manager may help but if I remember you need to get at least three managers to agree they want your product. Then you have to get through a buyer, then you have to abide by what they want for a discount which will be more than any other retailer. On the other side if Walmart has your product other smaller retailers may not want to sell it because they simply don't have the discount walmart has and won't want to carry a product you can by cheaper elsewhere. Last but not least one of the more important is a sales team. You'll have a difficult time unless your great at sales and have an endless amount of time on your hands to market this. Sales reps work on 15% commision and sell the product wholesale at usually a 50% discount, books are more 55% to 60% discount. You'll never get around the discounts. Retail stores aim for 50% profit on any item the sell. some retailers or products may be different but from my experience 50% is standard. So all that said for example if your idea is for a product that sells for $10.00 you'll look something like this.
Cost to manufacture -$1-2 dollars
wholesale discount -50%
sales commmision -15%

10 - 50%(wholesale) = 5 - 15% (commision)= $4.25-
$1.50 (manufact)= $2.75 profit.

Out of that $2.75 profit you still need to subtract advertising, shipping materials, shipping costs if they aren't passed on to the retailer, and any storage costs.
You should know all this and have a written plan before you seek any investor. Good luck and don't get discouraged. This is just my experience and knowledge in my small part of the world.
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
that's about what i've seen too jgr.

however, you can save some money on patent applications by reading them all yourself first:

http://www.uspto.gov/main/profiles/acadres.htm
 
Posted by T e x on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by jgrecoconstr:
Not trying to rain on your parade but I can give you a couple tips because getting a patent and getting in Walmart, as well as manufacturing your idea are pretty steep walls. First the patent, if what your thinking is a totally new concept or radicaly new product unlike anything else on the market then a patent attorney should only be about $5,000.00 to $7000.00 to get it done. If your idea contains concepts already patented then be prepared to re-apply numerous times at the same costs. I stopped the process after three rejections at $5k an app. The only one that made money off that was the attorney.
As far as manufacturing costs if your idea needs that you need to shop around for pricing. The internet is great for that just find a specialty web site that has the manufacturers you are looking for, electronis, clothing, plastics etc, etc,. You can list a basic idea without giving to many details when they contact you have them sign a non-disclosure agreement before you give them the entire detailed product for a quote. Most people here will jump down my throat after this statement but you need to know before you startr anything your target price. If this isn;'t a high ticket retail item then you have to go overseas to get it made. You won't be able to afford made in USA after you take out the cost to produce unless of coarse yuo are ordering 100,s of thousands in quantities. Still at that you can still save over 100% manufacturing elsewhere. You can have the greatest idea in the world but if you can't afford the cost to manufacture it won't go anywhere. You simply can't up your retail price because the market may not be able to move it.
Walmart.... simply knowing one manager may help but if I remember you need to get at least three managers to agree they want your product. Then you have to get through a buyer, then you have to abide by what they want for a discount which will be more than any other retailer. On the other side if Walmart has your product other smaller retailers may not want to sell it because they simply don't have the discount walmart has and won't want to carry a product you can by cheaper elsewhere. Last but not least one of the more important is a sales team. You'll have a difficult time unless your great at sales and have an endless amount of time on your hands to market this. Sales reps work on 15% commision and sell the product wholesale at usually a 50% discount, books are more 55% to 60% discount. You'll never get around the discounts. Retail stores aim for 50% profit on any item the sell. some retailers or products may be different but from my experience 50% is standard. So all that said for example if your idea is for a product that sells for $10.00 you'll look something like this.
Cost to manufacture -$1-2 dollars
wholesale discount -50%
sales commmision -15%

10 - 50%(wholesale) = 5 - 15% (commision)= $4.25-
$1.50 (manufact)= $2.75 profit.

Out of that $2.75 profit you still need to subtract advertising, shipping materials, shipping costs if they aren't passed on to the retailer, and any storage costs.
You should know all this and have a written plan before you seek any investor. Good luck and don't get discouraged. This is just my experience and knowledge in my small part of the world.

well posted, my friend
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
there's always the "made for TV" guys...

they'll give you ten minutes to pitch to them..

http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/pitchmen/pitchmen.html

of course Billy Mays is dead now, but they'll find somebody to replace him... they always do [Wink]
 
Posted by wallymac on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
there's always the "made for TV" guys...

they'll give you ten minutes to pitch to them..

http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/pitchmen/pitchmen.html

of course Billy Mays is dead now, but they'll find somebody to replace him... they always do [Wink]

May he rest in peace. I have to say that his shouting grated on me. I would either mute the TV or change channels whenever his commericials aired.

The guy that does the Sham Wow and Slap Chop is funny. May end up being the next BIG Pitchman.
 
Posted by buckstalker on :
 
There is always the "Shark Tank" route too...
 
Posted by wallymac on :
 
Not trying to burst a bubble or anything but a lot of people have great ideas. In order to attract investors you need to go beyond the idea and develop it to a point where you can show that the idea is not only feasible but profitable.

Investors in general are only interested in Return on Investment. Which of course means that you need to do most of the grunt work prior ro them coming in. I know it's a catch 22 because you don't want anyone to know what the idea is prior to getting a patent yet you lack the funds to get one.

The onlt true alternative is to save your money until you can afford to get it off the ground and then pitch it to investors. Buck******* mentioed the Shark Tank, I think it's pretty close to what you will face in attempting to attract investors. The one constant on that show is that the businesses they decide to invest in are businesses that are already generating sales and they want a good chunk of the business for their money.
 
Posted by jgrecoconstr on :
 
Shark Tank ? is that the show that was based in England and had like 5 people that would bid on the investment. That was a good show, haven't seen it in awhile.
 
Posted by wallymac on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by jgrecoconstr:
Shark Tank ? is that the show that was based in England and had like 5 people that would bid on the investment. That was a good show, haven't seen it in awhile.

The American Version of it debuted a few weeks ago. I believe ot's on Sunday's on ABC. I never saw the brittish version but have enjoyed the few episodes of the American Version that I've seen.
 
Posted by jgrecoconstr on :
 
TY Wally, I'll have to seeif I can catch it this weekend
 
Posted by jgrecoconstr on :
 
Here is a perfect example of overseas competition and kind of an example of an investors or partners cut with an I-phone app.
Current developer/partner I have gets 35% of the total earnings. Cost to me nothing to develop, my cut 35% and Apples cut 30%. If you just say the app is $8.00 and there are 500 dloads a month then that developer/partner will gross around $16,800 per year. I would gross the same.
If I dump the developer/partner and go it alone and hire a programmer to just make the app then the cost for a US programmer would be between $4,000 to $6,000.00. If I hire a programmer from India the cost to develop would be $2,000 to $2,500.00. It will take between 60 to 70 hours to code the material for an i-phone app. So you can see where the cheapest place to make the same identical thing is and also see where if you don't invest any of your own money an investor makes a killing, almost 8 times what the actual cost would be going overseas and 4 times what the cost would be to have it made in the US using the lower end of the quotes.
 
Posted by buckstalker on :
 
All the while putting MORE Americans out of work...good strategy
 
Posted by jgrecoconstr on :
 
I don't think you did the math in there. Do you think 30 to 40 dollars an hour is a good wage? Especially in this econonmy!!! I personally have had to cut my own wages from 45 per hour to 30 to 35 per hour just to stay busy the past year and I'm not that busy if I'm sitting here. I was pointing out the difference in where your money can go for the same product. And here's the kicker, when you come up with a product that's all your own and you have to invest all your own money in, you let me know where your bottom line is going to go. 9 times out of ten I bet you aren't going to pay twice the amount. This is a world economy were in not an individual US economy. What gets spent in one country goes on to the next. Not that I need to tell you where I'm going but it's a developer in Canada for $4,500 he had the best presentation and personality.
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
This is a world economy were in not an individual US economy.

then the US is going to be a third world country in less than a decade.

merchandising is a necessary part of the economy, but the simple truth is that the only time money is actually created or manufactured (as opposed to made) is when real production happens. providing service to real producers is the only way an economy can sustain itself.

this idea that you can just print money to keep a service economy (merchandising) going is flawed at its root premise.

once we drop to the level that China or India rises to? then and only then can we begin to be producers again.
 
Posted by jgrecoconstr on :
 
Glass, what I was meaning is that yes there is a seperate economy here but at the same time it is all tied together with so many others. The biggest being China. Take Walmart for example the majority of their products are made in China and sold at discount prices. The majority of people shop at Walmart whether they admit it or not they eventually shop there. In turn that creates jobs here all be it low paying but every job can't pay 50k a year. That money spent on Chinese manufactured products turns into tax dollars that get cycled through the sherrifs, road crews, welfare, local goverment, schools.... which all pay the higher wages,etc etc.... That's how I meant it was all tied together.
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
i understand that, but there's something missing here.

walmart is the PERFECT example too.

walmart cuts tax deals before they ever even buy the land. they demand specific right of ways to connect to the roads.
most towns have been so eager to get Walmart that they give them all kinds of freebies.


the profits they make DO NOT return to the community, they are removed from the community and sent to the home office to be distributed to the shareholders or used to build yet another store.

the taxes collected would STILL be collected if walmart was selling American made goods or if walmart was replaced by the large number of small businesses it put out of business.

they do not, NET , create jobs in th ecommunities they "serve" (LOL) at all, they REPLACE higher paying jobs with lower paying jobs.

China is communist. they do not hold elections outside of closed rooms where the party membership meets and somehow decides who will be the next leader of whatever office they have to fill.

Wall ST? MSNBC? all day every day you hear them call China Capitalists. they are lying. Chinas central govt controls their whole economy. yet the "business community" continues to convince themselves that it doesn't matter, because they are profitable, so it must be alright.


our recent market "malfunction" has only proven to the Chinese govt that they "need" to retain stricter control over their economy rather than less.

beleive it or not? IMO we should devalue the dollar even further to stop allowing Chinese good to be so cheap.

we only keep it high for one reason and that is maintain a relatively low cost of oil.

China was hit very hard when oil went to 140.

there are always any number of solutions to an economic problem. deciding which are best is never an easy job, because in economics someone always wins and someone always loses.

the system we have going right now does allow for a few to win very big, however, they have to make their money by putting people to work, and then finding customers for that work. before long? they will run out of customers here in the US. i'm not guessing about this, if we stay on this path it is inevitable, a couple years ago? i knew we were in for eventual market problems, i honestly didn't understand how bad and how soon they would hit, so i have revised my estimation of how long we can continue to keep this "service(? ugh) economy" alive.
 
Posted by jgrecoconstr on :
 
You know when I was reading your response I was trying to think of what stores closed here when Walmart came and I only came up with one I can think of. It was an Ames next to it and they were in trouble before they came. If I remember Walmart even redid the facade of their store and made some improvements inside yet they still went under even though they were benifitting from the traffic Walmart bought.
When I think of business, I think they all have their niche. Take home depot and lowes two miles apart here and yet the three private lumber yards still survive. A different niche, a different quality product and a different level of service. I just read today Kodak kodachrome film that there is only one place left in the world where that can be developed and that will close shortly or cease to develop that particular film. You have to see the future, and make your niche and change accordingly. We force or have forced on all of us these high costs, with regulations, taxes, insurance costs. It's endless. My last example........ they are taxing people out of smoking, in turn losing tax dollars and at some point it will affect the production jobs to make cigs. Once they kill that industry and force everyone into quitting where do you think that revenue will come from?
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
so, are you trying to tell me that all the chinese made goods in walmart store did not replace US jobs?

as for the stores that you cannot think of going out of business? they most certainly lost market share, it is impossible for them not to have.


Surplus to requirements

Jan 15th 2009 | HONG KONG
From The Economist print edition
Why is China’s trade surplus growing when its exports have collapsed?

THIS week revised figures revealed that China overtook Germany in 2007 to become the world’s third-biggest economy. At the start of last year China also looked set to become the world’s biggest exporter, but a slump in exports in the final months of the year meant they remained smaller than Germany’s. China’s exports tumbled by 13% (in dollar terms) in the fourth quarter, leaving them 3% lower in December than a year earlier. Despite this, China’s trade surplus rose to a record $457 billion at an annual rate in the fourth quarter—50% bigger than in the same period of 2007. What is going on?

n the first half of 2008 China’s trade surplus did indeed shrink (see chart). But since then, although exports slumped, imports fell by much more—down by 21% in the 12 months to December. The slide in both exports and imports was exacerbated by the global credit freeze, which has made it harder for companies around the world to get letters of credit to guarantee payment. Imports were also dragged down by cheaper oil and commodity prices, and by weaker imports of materials and components used to make exports (over 50% of total imports).

But a more worrying reason why China bought less from the rest of the world is that its domestic demand has weakened.


http://www.economist.com/businessfinance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12948617
 
Posted by jgrecoconstr on :
 
No not at all, I'm sure they replaced US jobs but this was coming from along time ago when unions outlived their purpose and got greedy. It's snowballed from there. Am I anti union? to a degree yes. They add way to much costs to manufacturing and construction with some of their ridiculous demands. I have been in a union so I know the stupid things the demand pay for. If it was just about doing your job for a decent wage, safety and benefits that are in line with the general public I would be 100% pro union but it's not and that's why were where we are today.
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
when unions outlived their purpose and got greedy.

wrong. it has absolutely nothing to do with the unions asking for better anything. it all about who has INVESTED their venture capital where

it's when business people got greedy and decided that HIGHER (read easier) profits/returns were more important than their countries way of life.

once again, i repeat that we are LOSING the economic war with the COMMUNISTS. they are selling US the rope to hang ourselves, and we are doing it for profit. this is not some opinion i am offering you, it's what is happening, and it's happening faster every year.


 -

Chinese trade balance, in millions USD per month, nsa (blue), and twelve month trailing average (red). NBER defined recession dates shaded gray. Source: Chinese trade statistics from IMF, IFS, ADB; and NBER, and author's calculations.

http://www.econbrowser.com/archives/2009/07/three_pictures_4.html

what this leads to and very soon now, is that we will have "exchanged" all of our real property for "cargo", and that is something we did to a very small degree with Japan, but then the Japanese backed off and "lost" a decade...

China? they are not even close to utilising half of their available manpower to provide labor to the world. they have only applied about one third of their labor force to date.

the reason that jobs are going there have nothing to do with Labor Unions,(i am a sole proprietor with no employees BTW) the reason the Investors on Wall St. have Invested in China is because the people there are literally working for less than i pay for my cable bill.


A recent study shows that the average monthly income of 70% of business workers in Mainland China is between 800 yuan (US $97) to 2,500 yuan (US $302), with the senior management staff earning three to 15 times the salary of the average enterprise worker. The report also shows that more than 70 percent of the Chinese enterprise workers are satisfied with their salaries, and the most unsatisfied are the employees of state-run enterprises.

http://www.asianresearch.org/articles/2089.html

now, these are the BUSINESS workers. if you go into the countryside? their pay is less than 300$ per year.

simply put? teh yuan-dollar exchange rate is all out of whack... that's how the Chinese govt has LURED all the investors. the investors will most likely lose every penny they have put in China before it's all done tho, and it will serve them right.
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
A recent study shows that the average monthly income of 70% of business workers in Mainland China is between 800 yuan (US $97) to 2,500 yuan (US $302),

800 to 2500 US dollars per month would be 9600/yr to 30,000/year...

guess what? The median income per household member (including all working and non-working members above the age of 14) was $26,036 in 2006.

and right there is why all the jobs are going to China
 
Posted by jgrecoconstr on :
 
We may never agree. I do agree some companies went for pure profit but I also believe other were pushed against the wall by unions. How can you run a business Glass if you forgot to call Little Johnny first for overtime and Johnny files a grievance for a free days pay and you have to give it to him. Or the union worker who is more than capable of carrying 50 lbs of material but the union set the limit at 10lbs so now he has to make 5 trips and slow production down. There is a lot more to it than that but bottom ine is they cut into profit. Why would anyone run a company to lose their profits to unreasonable rules. There was a paper company here Finch Pryun I believe it was the largest privatley held company in the paper industry. The union went on strike 2 years in a row if I remember always wanting more. Great paying jobs but the union wanted more for health coverage, everybody wanted a job there they paid so well. The company replaced almost every single person there and offered some workers to come back at a different rate. They greeded themselves out of a job for more health coverage. I'm self employed also, by choice I wouldn't have it any other way so you should have the same attitude I do when you see people complaining health coverage and double time and shift differential..... work on your own and see how much people hand you and you'll stop complaining. Can I fix the world? certainly not.
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
the US worker is the most productive worker in the world, period.

you can blame the Unions all you want, i'm not a defender of them, they have their place in society, but they are not the reason that venture capital has GIVEN the Chinese Govt so much money to work with.

make no mistake, China is one big Union dude, that's what communism is and they will do whatever they want when the time is right for them.

U.S. Workers World's Most Productive
United Nations Report Says Longer Hours Worked, More Achieved Per Hour

The U.S., according to the report, also beats all 27 nations in the European Union, Japan and Switzerland in the amount of wealth created per hour of work - a second key measure of productivity.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/09/03/business/main3228735.shtml

China is not even in the same league with the 27 mentioned.

China and other East Asian countries are catching up quickest with Western countries. Productivity in the region has doubled in the past decade and is accelerating faster than anywhere else, the report said.

But they still have a long way to go: workers in East Asia are still only about a fifth as productive as laborers in industrialized countries.

 
Posted by buckstalker on :
 
jgrecoconstr...it really is not that difficult to understand...

Go back 20 years when we had "good paying" manufacturing jobs in this country...things were good and the economy was strong

Now fast forward 20 years when we manufacture very little in this country and buy damn near everything from China via Walmart...things are not so good..in fact YOUR wages have been reduced and will continue to go lower until people WAKE UP...

When you buy products from other countries or hire them to save yourself a buck, that money leaves our economy and DOESN'T come back...It's not rocket science man...it's just plain common sense...

Oh...and to blame this whole thing on the unions is about as lame as an excuse as you could come up with...it proves to me that you are one of many in this country that hear a few soundbites on one of our illustrious cable news channels, and believes it as gospel...you are NOT a thinker, but merely a "follower".

As long as people in this country believe what you have been led to believe...our quality of life will continue to decline...in fact I'll bet 2 to 1 that you will be making less than $20.00 per hour in the very near future...
 
Posted by buckstalker on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
This is a world economy were in not an individual US economy.

then the US is going to be a third world country in less than a decade.

That is exactly what is going to happen Glass, and it never ceases to amaze me how many people in this country STILL don't see it...They have lost their jobs, their homes, and have seen their wages reduced by as much as 50%, and they STILL don't get it...

jgrecoconstr is a perfect example...his wages have already been cut by 25% to 30% and it is getting harder and harder for him to find work...yet the best reason he can come up with is "it's the unions fault"

WAKE UP PEOPLE...the so-called "GLOBAL ECONOMY" is WHY our standard of living is in decline, and it will continue to decline if WE don't start looking out for US...
 
Posted by jgrecoconstr on :
 
BS are you involved or have ever been involved with any business of your own,producing a product? Like I said in a previous post, you can have the best idea in the world and if you can't afford to produce it for a affordable resale price it's useless. US industry and labor has priced themselves out of making affordable products. If you were to pay twice as much for your clothes as you do now I'm sure you would be b---hing about it. So your telling me you would be happy to run to the store and pay double so you can keep someone employed here. You wouldn't do it,and I'm sure your not boycotting foriegn made goods. I don't believe I blamed a union at all for my lack of work, this current situation is in my opinion all wall street greed and crooked politicians. If you have no experience in production and you don't have made in America on everything you own don't try to preach to me.
 
Posted by buckstalker on :
 
You look at such a small picture...yourself

Try looking at the BIG picture...

Divided we fall
 
Posted by T e x on :
 
calm down fellas...

is a trying time in US history.

Let us reason together.
 
Posted by jgrecoconstr on :
 
I'm calm Tex, I came into this thread to give some insight into the original question. Like I said above people would jump down my throat.Glass and I had a basic discussion of viewpoints. It wasn't until sometime later that someone else thought the need to make it more of a personal matter.
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
So your telling me you would be happy to run to the store and pay double so you can keep someone employed here.


that's just the same as eating all the seed for next years crop


it seems OK this season, but next season?

i wonder why it's become OK to trade with China, but it was not OK to trade with Russia?

there was a time when i would not buy anything from China because it was going to break for sure, then all the American brands slowly but surely began to be chinese made and we cannot avoid it no matter how much we try.

i'm specifically talking about tools. saving a dollar on a tool was not a good idea if you wan to finish a job on time? you need to be able to count on your tool finishing it with you.

thing is? the American manufactures went to China and taught them all they needed to be able to match tools made here. why would they do that? give away trade/R&D to a whole country?

can you imagine somebody in the 1960's trying to sell Russian made eqpt in St Louis Mo even if it had a familiar brand name on it?

the Chinese don't even recognise US patent rights, even the "idea" people sending their concepts there to be manufactured will begin to lose the profits they should get eventually because the Chinese will copy their product and undercut them.

today China (the Govt of) announced they begin cutting capacity on production of all kinds of things, in ohter words? they are cracking down. they are NOT capitalists, it's LIES, and somehow people have confused capitalism with making profit....

China to Study Curbs on Overcapacity in Steel, Cement (Update2)

The government will increase “guidance” of industries including steel, cement, coal chemical, plate glass and wind power equipment, the State Council, China’s cabinet, said in a statement on its Web site today. The government will strengthen controls on approval of stock and bond sales by companies in these industries, according to the statement.

Li Yizhong, China’s industry minister, earlier this month ordered the nation’s steel industry to refrain from expanding capacity. Chinese mills have capacity to produce 660 million metric tons of steel each year and there’s demand for only 470 million tons, Yi said then.
China produced 500.5 million metric tons of steel last year as the world’s largest producer. That’s more than the combined output of Japan, the U.S., Russia and India, the next four biggest makers, according to the World Steel Association. In the first seven months of 2009, China accounted for almost half of global steel output.



http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=anTNV1tDVs0w

of course they had overcapacity, they were building the '08 Olympics on a tight schedule.
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
while people in America have been arguing about whether to bail out any company here (a good question to ask) the Chinese Govt has actually been building all of their competition. Nothing happens in China without Govt permission. Nobody in China can even speak negatively about the govt. Even google complies with their wishes in order to gain "market share".

the worst part is that the Chinese could only do it with the help, oversight and technical expertise from the American co's themselves....

why? to make an extra 4% ROI?

here's what is really happening and will happen with more frequency:

Rio Tinto - China strikes back
Still smarting from its failed attempt to buy into the Australian mining giant, Beijing makes a new bid to secure its supply of iron ore.

By Bill Powell, senior writer
Last Updated: August 24, 2009: 11:54 AM ET

NEW YORK (Fortune) -- After officials in Beijing last month arrested four Rio Tinto executives for allegedly stealing secrets from Chinese steel companies, China took a brutal public relations beating internationally.

The outcry increased when China said that the businessmen -- including the head of Rio Tinto's iron-ore division in Shanghai, Australian passport-holder Stern Hu -- had been seized by the State Security Bureau and were suspected of stealing "state secrets." That meant they could be tried in secret and, more than likely, not even be able to offer any defense.

Then, on August 11, China announced formally that the four had been arrested, but it had dropped the "state secrets" charge and will apparently base the case on commercial bribery allegations. This was, correctly, viewed as something of a climb down, a tacit admission by authorities that they had overreached.

But it didn't mean Beijing still wasn't angry about Rio Tinto (RTP) having turned away from a $19.5 billion investment that Chinalco -- the state-owned aluminum company -- had planned to make in the Anglo-Australian miner. Beijing's tack now is not just to get mad. It's to get even.


http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/24/news/companies/china_rio_tinto.fortune/


people talk about labor unions being bad? LOL, what happens when the Govt IS the labor Union? that's the very definition of communism.

public relations beatings are just part of the game, next time? they'll actually fabricate the evidence they need to make the charges stick, and the people charged will have no defense.



Its fundamental interest in Chinalco buying into Rio Tinto was to break the stranglehold that Rio, BHP Billiton (BHP) and Brazil's Vale (VALE) have on global pricing for iron ore and other key commodities that China desperately needs -- and will need for decades. (Today, those big three account for over 70% of globally traded iron-ore sales.)
Beijing's outrage at Rio walking away from the Chinalco investment wasn't just a fit of pique -- though sources close to the government say there was some of that. It was that Rio turned around and announced a joint venture in iron ore with rival BHP. "This was China's worst nightmare," says a banker who has advised Chinalco.


http://money.cnn.com/2009/08/24/news/companies/china_rio_tinto.fortune/
 
Posted by buckstalker on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by jgrecoconstr:
So your telling me you would be happy to run to the store and pay double so you can keep someone employed here.

You bet your azz I would...WHY...because the people that I supported by buying their products would have the money to buy my goods/services...

Here's a hint as to why you are finding it harder to find work...the people that you are supporting (Chinese, Japanese, Canadians, etc.) DON'T spend their money here on construction or remodeling...or for that matter, anything else..
 


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