I'm calling it now. The Dems are digging a hole. That is what happens when you overpromise to get elected, and then get stuck in out of control spending.
Posted by retiredat49 on :
Is that the same hole that the Repubs dug when they overpromised to get elected and then got stuck in out of control spending?
There must be a lot of big holes in Washington...
Posted by glassman on :
Washington is one big hole Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: Is that the same hole that the Repubs dug when they overpromised to get elected and then got stuck in out of control spending?
There must be a lot of big holes in Washington...
Never been a spending hole in Washington like there is now.
The people are getting off the kool aid high and are figuring out that all the heavenly promises Obama used to get elected were way overdone.
Obama is a salesman, pretty good one. It is catching up though.
Posted by T e x on :
lol, moo, you're digging a pretty good hole yourself... Posted by raybond on :
BS by 2010 people will hate the gop so much the gop will join the whigs
Posted by retiredat49 on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: Washington is one big hole
Allow me to elaborate just a tad on that Glass...
Washington is one big hole with a lot of little holes that continue to dig the big hole deeper...
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by raybond: BS by 2010 people will hate the gop so much the gop will join the whigs
Thats why support for Obama and his agenda are dropping rapidly, and his own party is feeling the pressure from the people who elected them.
Does Raybond fear the inevitable? The repeat of the 90s after Bill got into office?
Posted by T e x on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
quote:Originally posted by raybond: BS by 2010 people will hate the gop so much the gop will join the whigs
Thats why support for Obama and his agenda are dropping rapidly, and his own party is feeling the pressure from the people who elected them.
Does Raybond fear the inevitable? The repeat of the 90s after Bill got into office?
make sense... as it stands? you make no sense
Posted by retiredat49 on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
quote:Originally posted by raybond: BS by 2010 people will hate the gop so much the gop will join the whigs
Thats why support for Obama and his agenda are dropping rapidly, and his own party is feeling the pressure from the people who elected them.
Does Raybond fear the inevitable? The repeat of the 90s after Bill got into office?
Want to explain this post CCM...not following you either...
Posted by Lockman on :
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49:
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
quote:Originally posted by raybond: BS by 2010 people will hate the gop so much the gop will join the whigs
Thats why support for Obama and his agenda are dropping rapidly, and his own party is feeling the pressure from the people who elected them.
Does Raybond fear the inevitable? The repeat of the 90s after Bill got into office?
Want to explain this post CCM...not following you either...
I believe Clinton had a Senate and house majority when he came into office also. Not like this one but he had a strong hand.
American's become uneasy with one political idiology in power for to long. Senator Dodd is in trouble in CT and Obama cutting F22 fighters from the defense bill sure didn't help him.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by Lockman:
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49:
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
quote:Originally posted by raybond: BS by 2010 people will hate the gop so much the gop will join the whigs
Thats why support for Obama and his agenda are dropping rapidly, and his own party is feeling the pressure from the people who elected them.
Does Raybond fear the inevitable? The repeat of the 90s after Bill got into office?
Want to explain this post CCM...not following you either...
I believe Clinton had a Senate and house majority when he came into office also. Not like this one but he had a strong hand.
American's become uneasy with one political idiology in power for to long. Senator Dodd is in trouble in CT and Obama cutting F22 fighters from the defense bill sure didn't help him.
Did everyone forget when the Dems went after guns once Clinton was elected? There were other things as well. It cost them dearly. It helped balance things out by getting a Republican majority under Clinton.
When was that? 1994?
For all you Obama lovers out there I am shocked none of you think he has too much power. If this was Bush you would be crying all day. The house, the senate, the speaker, the new supreme court appointment, the whole shabang in Washington is all left now. There is no balance!
Posted by glassman on :
anybody following the Thune Amendment? the vote is taking place right now on CSPAN US Senate:
Durbin Hoping To Stop Gun Bill, But Reid Is Voting Yes
It's pegged as the Democrats vs. the gun lobby, but of course it's more complicated than that.
Today, at noon, the Senate is expected to take up an amendment by South Dakota Republican John Thune that would allow individuals with permits to carry concealed weapons to carry them across state lines -- though only if the visited state laws allow conceal-and-carry permits. Posted by glassman on :
In May, Reid, Bennet, Warner and Udall joined 23 fellow Senate Democrats in backing Oklahoma Republican Tom Coburn's amendment -- to credit card legislation (PL 111-24) -- allowing people to bring concealed and loaded guns into national parks.
And in February, Reid and the three freshmen joined 18 Senate Democrats to help adopt an amendment by John Ensign, R-Nev., that would roll back restrictions on gun ownership in the District of Columbia. It was attached to legislation (S 160) that would give the District full voting representation in the House, and the provision subsequently stalled House action on that bill.
Posted by glassman on :
the Thune ammendment was withdrawn with a 58- 39 vote. it needed 60 votes.
Posted by SeekingFreedom on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: the Thune ammendment was withdrawn with a 58- 39 vote. it needed 60 votes.
Was watching it. Not sure where I stand on it. On one hand, I think ALL Americans should be able to carry whereever they want (2nd amendment thing). On the other, I don't like the Fed telling the states what the HAVE to allow.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Anyone watch Obama tonight on health care? Dems divided now over it, no clear direction laid out for them by their leader, top dems saying August deadline now impossible......Oh man, where is my popcorn? This show is getting good!!!!!
Posted by Lockman on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Anyone watch Obama tonight on health care? Dems divided now over it, no clear direction laid out for them by their leader, top dems saying August deadline now impossible......Oh man, where is my popcorn? This show is getting good!!!!!
LOL
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Anyone watch Obama tonight on health care? Dems divided now over it, no clear direction laid out for them by their leader, top dems saying August deadline now impossible......Oh man, where is my popcorn? This show is getting good!!!!!
this is how democracy is supposed to work.
you should be glad they are divided.
not because it will hurt anyone politically either.
when you go 4 or 6 years w/o debates and vetoes? something will get broken.
there are a couple of good things in the bill that we all really do want.
one of them is a ban on the pre-existing conditions clause.
suppose you have have some pre-existing condition that is chronic (it don't killya) and you are offered a better job someplace else?
can you take it? you may find yourself without insurance.
don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
i understand the GOP members have been adding amendments and then voting against their own amendments.
Obama's health care bill? sure he has asked, even demanded for one, but it is slowly but surely being written by all of them:
if he didn't stand up in DC and make noises to get something done? nothing would get done, which in "normal" times would be a good thing
i wonder how much it would cost to set up a US taxpayer based medical school. no charge to students, but they have to practice family medicine for ten years after they graduate.
open the doors to anybody and make it very competitive to get out, instead of in....
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
London bridge is falling down, falling down, falling down....london bridge is falling down...
Fifty-three percent (53%) now oppose the Congressional health care reform package. That’s up eight points over the past month.
Those numbers will go back up once the obfuscation clears up. There are so many different people talking about different possibilities that no one knows what the reform package really is right now. Wait until some of the details start to firm up and those poll numbers will go back up.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
what went wrong is Obama trying to do everything at once and cram things through hoping it gets done...he may have good intent to make "change" but cmon....giving short deadlines to "have something on my desk to sign" is not going to work. Look how sloppy the stimulus is. You supporters of that really think that over 1,000 pages with just one weekend to review it before it was voted on was smart?
Posted by rounder1 on :
I have lived without healthcare before.....willing to do it again.
Nobody, is so great that they should pay my way.
keep your money. Give me a job. I will pay my own way.
It cost a lot....well it is like Cybil (not sure if that is the correct spelling) said;....."I am worth it."
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Good post rounder.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by rounder1: I have lived without healthcare before.....willing to do it again.
Nobody, is so great that they should pay my way.
keep your money. Give me a job. I will pay my own way.
It cost a lot....well it is like Cybil (not sure if that is the correct spelling) said;....."I am worth it."
got kids?
want to leave them ANYTHING at all?
ever seen the bills from a 6 month hospital stay? you'll leave your family in debt if you check out after that. i've seen it first hand
Posted by rounder1 on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
quote:Originally posted by rounder1: I have lived without healthcare before.....willing to do it again.
Nobody, is so great that they should pay my way.
keep your money. Give me a job. I will pay my own way.
It cost a lot....well it is like Cybil (not sure if that is the correct spelling) said;....."I am worth it."
got kids?
want to leave them ANYTHING at all?
ever seen the bills from a 6 month hospital stay? you'll leave your family in debt if you check out after that. i've seen it first hand
No...no kids; but have seen it as well with my mother. Dead at 46 (colon cancer) that spread to her liver. 7 weeks from diagnosis to death. 5 of the 7 were in a hospital....the other two on hospice.
Bills exceed 300k.....in her case. They all disappeared when she died.....prior to that my father was preparing to declare BK.
I hate that he did not have to declare Bk......and I am sure that he does too.
That is not the point.....and I understand what you are saying....even agree to an extent. Nevertheless.....I would not expect you....or anyone else to foot her medical bills. That job would have fallen to her family....should fall to her family.
I agree that healthcare is "overpriced." National heathcare does not address that.....it simply gives equilibrium of cost spread over the entire citizenry.....and that is wrong. The problem is not fixed.....simply made more bearable to the most unfortunate.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Looks like Obama is no worse than a guy with a divorced wife....taking half of your money and blowing it without thought.
Similar to child support. Wife gets monthly amount from you, and she is supposed to spend it on the kids. However, she spends it on things SHE wants and there is no oversight or accountability for that money. Just like our government! HA!
Posted by wallymac on :
"Bills exceed 300k.....in her case. They all disappeared when she died.....prior to that my father was preparing to declare BK.
I hate that he did not have to declare Bk......and I am sure that he does too."
I'm truly sorry that you lost your mother but I have a question.
I lost my Father a couple of years ago. He was covered for medical bills except for deductibles. He had a stroke and the hospital sent him to a Nursing home to recover and get physical therapy. After 3 weeks it was decided that he had made all the progress he was going to make. At that time the insurance stop covering the costs of the nursing facility because they no longer considered it rehabilitative. His condition worsened and he passed away a few weeks later while I was still preparing the house to accommodate him.
My mother was still responsible for the bills and we had to paid them.
How did the bills disappear? I mean they didn't just disappear but it seems as though somehow your father no longer had to pay them. Which IMO, is great for your father.
Keep in mind though that those unpaid bills were paid in one form or another just as uninsured visits to emergency rooms are paid and that is by all. They are paid through increased premiums for insurance and increased fees for care.
One of the major benefits of a universal health care system is that all people would have access to primary care physicians, which means doctors visits versus emergency room visits. Thus decreasing some of the costs. It also allows people to seek medical attention prior to a health issue becoming a serious issue that requires hospitalization or even surgery.
No plan will be perfect but we need to start somewhere and adapt the system as we go along. I not a big fan of Government being too involved since in the majority of cases, worry about votes trumps doing the right thing. Yet, we need to start somewhere.
We all pay in some form or another, right now. It's just that now we are paying for the most expensive care possible.
Posted by rounder1 on :
quote:Originally posted by wallymac: "Bills exceed 300k.....in her case. They all disappeared when she died.....prior to that my father was preparing to declare BK.
I hate that he did not have to declare Bk......and I am sure that he does too."
I'm truly sorry that you lost your mother but I have a question.
I lost my Father a couple of years ago. He was covered for medical bills except for deductibles. He had a stroke and the hospital sent him to a Nursing home to recover and get physical therapy. After 3 weeks it was decided that he had made all the progress he was going to make. At that time the insurance stop covering the costs of the nursing facility because they no longer considered it rehabilitative. His condition worsened and he passed away a few weeks later while I was still preparing the house to accommodate him.
My mother was still responsible for the bills and we had to paid them.
How did the bills disappear? I mean they didn't just disappear but it seems as though somehow your father no longer had to pay them. Which IMO, is great for your father.
Keep in mind though that those unpaid bills were paid in one form or another just as uninsured visits to emergency rooms are paid and that is by all. They are paid through increased premiums for insurance and increased fees for care.
One of the major benefits of a universal health care system is that all people would have access to primary care physicians, which means doctors visits versus emergency room visits. Thus decreasing some of the costs. It also allows people to seek medical attention prior to a health issue becoming a serious issue that requires hospitalization or even surgery.
No plan will be perfect but we need to start somewhere and adapt the system as we go along. I not a big fan of Government being too involved since in the majority of cases, worry about votes trumps doing the right thing. Yet, we need to start somewhere.
We all pay in some form or another, right now. It's just that now we are paying for the most expensive care possible.
Wally,
I am going to pick my brothers brain on this to insure that I am telling you accurate information.....I was 21 at the time and far less involved with the aftermath of her death that he was. For now I will tell you how I recollect it and I will amend it later if need be.
My mother was insured; but she was also the "bread winner" of the house. My parents were heavily financed. Most of the notes that they had were "credit life."
Nevertheless, my family was middle to lower middle class even for this spot on globe. She had been an R.N. for many years (this may have played into some of it). My brother ran a practice in Augusta for two Eye surgeons (he is/was very familiar with how Drs. operate.
Upon my mothers death; he spoke with the physicians (not sure how many times). At some point the Colon/Rectal Surgeon agreed to "write off" anything that was not covered by the insurance. The oncologist (not sure if I spelled that correctly) did the same. Anesthiaologist....the same.
I am not certain with the hospital.......two years prior to my mothers death.....she left (under good terms) a company that provided hospice care.....the same company that ended up providing care to her. I am thinking that they wrote it off as well.
It was a very bizarre time in my life.....
I am not sure that I can say that we were "fortunate" but I cannot say that we weren't either.
Posted by wallymac on :
I know it's hard to say fortunate in circumstances like that. You don't need to bother your brother for the details. What you posted is more than enough.
Each circumstance is different but the one thing that I feel, is that no one should have to be worrying about money is these types of situations. Yet, many are left with no choice.
Not sure if I'm on board with the current legislation since I haven't had the time to read up on it but I do think it's time that we start somewhere and adapt along the way.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
This is part of why the dems are going to lose in 2010. These dem senators who said they DIDNT get VIP mortgage discounts really did. I wonder if Chris Dodd poked fun at McCain for having multiple homes.
WASHINGTON (AP) - Despite their denials, influential Democratic Sens. Kent Conrad and Chris Dodd were told from the start they were getting VIP mortgage discounts from one of the nation's largest lenders, the official who handled their loans has told Congress in secret testimony.
Both senators have said that at the time the mortgages were being written they didn't know they were getting unique deals from Countrywide Financial Corp., the company that went on to lose billions of dollars on home loans to credit-strapped borrowers. Dodd still maintains he got no preferential treatment.
Dodd got two Countrywide mortgages in 2003, refinancing his home in Connecticut and another residence in Washington. Conrad's two Countrywide mortgages in 2004 were for a beach house in Delaware and an eight-unit apartment building in Bismarck in his home state of North Dakota. Robert Feinberg, who worked in the Countrywide's VIP section, told congressional investigators last month that the two senators were made aware that "who you know is basically how you're coming in here."
"You don't say 'no' to the VIP," Feinberg told Republican investigators for the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, according to a transcript obtained by The Associated Press.
The next day, Feinberg testified before the Senate Ethics Committee, an indication the panel is actively investigating two of the chamber's more powerful members:
—Dodd heads the Banking Committee and is a major player in two big areas: solving the housing foreclosure and financial crises and putting together an overhaul of the U.S. health care system. A five-term senator, he is in a tough fight for re-election in 2010, partly because of the controversy over his mortgages.
_Conrad chairs the Budget Committee. He, too, shares an important role in the health care debate, as well as on legislation to curb global warming.
Both senators were VIP borrowers in the program known as "friends" of Angelo. Angelo Mozilo was chief executive of Countrywide, which played a big part in the foreclosure crisis triggered by defaults on subprime loans. The Calabasas, Calif.-based company was bought last July by Bank of America Corp. for about $2.5 billion.
The whigs are coming back to
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: what went wrong is Obama trying to do everything at once and cram things through hoping it gets done...he may have good intent to make "change" but cmon....giving short deadlines to "have something on my desk to sign" is not going to work. Look how sloppy the stimulus is. You supporters of that really think that over 1,000 pages with just one weekend to review it before it was voted on was smart?
I'd like a few examples of how the stimulus is sloppy please. We just got 40+ police positions saved for the next 4 years here in my twin cites thanks to the stimulus.
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
I'm personally beginning to wonder if the Blue Dogs are gonna end up being so popular when it comes to ball busting over fiscal responsibility in government that they end up splitting off from the main line democratic power party and creating a new second party. It early yet but they seem to have more credibility than republicans at the moment.
Posted by Lockman on :
quote:Originally posted by The Bigfoot:
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: what went wrong is Obama trying to do everything at once and cram things through hoping it gets done...he may have good intent to make "change" but cmon....giving short deadlines to "have something on my desk to sign" is not going to work. Look how sloppy the stimulus is. You supporters of that really think that over 1,000 pages with just one weekend to review it before it was voted on was smart?
I'd like a few examples of how the stimulus is sloppy please. We just got 40+ police positions saved for the next 4 years here in my twin cites thanks to the stimulus.
Glad to hear someone got something from the stimulus. The last interview I saw with the oversite commissioner of the stimulus package was not very insiteful, seems their office doesn t really know where the money is going.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Yeah well you got 40 police officer jobs that got stimulus money for 4 years. Once those 4 years are up then what? Oh...let me guess, the gamble is that the stimulus will work SO WELL that there will be money to cover it. Well 40 salaries is a large chunk of change and guess who will cover it? MORE taxes paid by the taxpayer.
I Cant want until 2010, and 2012.
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Yes we received 10 million out of the 1 Billion that was spent on law enforcement throughout the states. The money covers three years of salaries with the condition that the state commit to one year of salary for them beyond. Then it is up to the state to float it's own boat like normal. You know, like when home prices and the job market have stabilized so the state can make an accurate projection of how much they are gonna bring in with tax revenue and won't get caught short when planning the budget.
You gonna be grumbling in 2010 still man. Count on it. (Though I do think you will have a chance to weed out some of the worst and weakest of the democrats and you are welcome to do so. It makes the party stronger to separate the wheat from the chafe.)
Did you want to point out some other areas of the stimulus bill that were sloppy CCM?
(The above is in case you need to reference the Act to find said sloppiness.)
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Im not saying Republicans are any better. Democrats cried foul for years so lets see them get something good done without pillaging the country by taxing every single thing we do.
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
I tend to like the idea that was sent around recently suggesting that a 10% tax increase on fatty (i.e. soda, candy, chips, etc.) foods would raise 500B over ten years.
If nothing else it might make folks start to realize exactly what it is that they are eating. Might cut down on Obesity too which in turn would cut down on diabetes and heart disease which incur significant expenses in our health care system. I know some say it would target the poor more but if the end result is educating the poor and turning our dietary model back towards the basics then I'd say it is a savings to them in the long run.
Posted by Lockman on :
quote:Originally posted by The Bigfoot: Yes we received 10 million out of the 1 Billion that was spent on law enforcement throughout the states. The money covers three years of salaries with the condition that the state commit to one year of salary for them beyond. Then it is up to the state to float it's own boat like normal. You know, like when home prices and the job market have stabilized so the state can make an accurate projection of how much they are gonna bring in with tax revenue and won't get caught short when planning the budget.
You gonna be grumbling in 2010 still man. Count on it. (Though I do think you will have a chance to weed out some of the worst and weakest of the democrats and you are welcome to do so. It makes the party stronger to separate the wheat from the chafe.)
Did you want to point out some other areas of the stimulus bill that were sloppy CCM?
(The above is in case you need to reference the Act to find said sloppiness.)
This what's basically wrong with temporary money from the Federal government. After the four years it's gonna be the state or local government that's saddled with these contracts. Can you say property tax increases?
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
There is no long term contract Lock. The fed agrees to pay three years and only requires a one year agreement from the state in return, then the state staffs according to their own budget abilities the year after. It's actually cheaper than infrastructure building because there is no long term maintenance burdens to carry forward and a good 15-20% of the cash laid out eventually filters right back to the government anyway though taxes.
Posted by Lockman on :
quote:Originally posted by The Bigfoot: There is no long term contract Lock. The fed agrees to pay three years and only requires a one year agreement from the state in return, then the state staffs according to their own budget abilities the year after. It's actually cheaper than infrastructure building because there is no long term maintenance burdens to carry forward and a good 15-20% of the cash laid out eventually filters right back to the government anyway though taxes.
If that's the program I'm all for it. Put's needed money into the system and benefits the citizens.
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Yeah dude. That's one of the pieces of stimulus that I can get behind fully. Not all of it is perfect but a lot of the so called problems with it is really just smoke and mirrors.
Posted by glassman on :
If that's the program I'm all for it. Put's needed money into the system and benefits the citizens.
the cash for clunkers seems to be generating alotof business for the car dealers.
i just listened to glen beck spew his BS about it for ten minutes. how can somebody so wrong and narrow minded make their living talking to people? he doesn't even have humor going for him.
Posted by T e x on :
If they really wanted to help the car dealers, there would be a provision for good, cleaner used vehicles...
But, I gotta concede...I considered buying a clunker outta da paper and making a move on a new car.
Beck? It simply goes to show how many truly ignorant people we got. I tend to "blame" the education system and also a "rebound effect" from the hippie schools: some things learned by rote were not bad, ie, multiplication tables, spelling, diagramming sentences, for examples. The latter two being a first step toward reading ===> logic ===> rhetoric.
If you catch my drift...and I know you do.
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
I wanted to buy a clunker too until I realized it had to have a full year of insurance payments made to qualify. My '91 Honda with 200k miles on it was too fuel efficient to qualify.
My friend wanted to turn his car over to pay off the note (young guy-bought more car than he could afford cuz it looked sexy) until he realized that you don't get resale value of the car you trade in. You get scrap value of the car you trade in. Even with the gov money he would be better off taking a loss at a used car lot.
First time I've ever wished my Honda wasn't a Honda. Could'a bought a new Honda! Posted by glassman on :
yep, gotta own the car and have it insured for a year before they accept it.
it also has to get less than 18MPG and be less than 25 yrs old
it's hard to beleive that they ran out of the money this quick.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by T e x: If they really wanted to help the car dealers, there would be a provision for good, cleaner used vehicles...
But, I gotta concede...I considered buying a clunker outta da paper and making a move on a new car.
Beck? It simply goes to show how many truly ignorant people we got. I tend to "blame" the education system and also a "rebound effect" from the hippie schools: some things learned by rote were not bad, ie, multiplication tables, spelling, diagramming sentences, for examples. The latter two being a first step toward reading ===> logic ===> rhetoric.
If you catch my drift...and I know you do.
yeah i catch your drift, angry people don't think much when they're angry either.
i listened to beck a few times when he was on CNN, he complained about the GOP too, but his rants today were actaully paranoid delusional, he was hinting that he's out to uncover some huge anti-constitutional conspiracy.
i actually agree with some of his OPINIONS,(like his attitude about the FED ) but i've never heard so many factoids that were just not true put together in one one hour TV show.
the anti-govt rants are becoming just plain wierd, and completely off base. i don't trust the govt no matter who is running it, but i know for a fact that the govt is what makes this place the UNITED States.....
Ron Paul has done something good, he's pushing for a bill to have the GAO review the FED's decision making process. if they do that? the Fed will be dissolved withing 15 years i bet.
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