This is topic If We Had Let GM Go Bankrupt Last November, We Could Have Lost Another Million in forum Off-Topic Post, Non Stock Talk at Allstocks.com's Bulletin Board.
If We Had Let GM Go Bankrupt Last November, We Could Have Lost Another Million JobsBy Ben Furnas on Jun 8th, 2009 at 11:11 am If We Had Let GM Go Bankrupt Last November, We Could Have Lost Another Million Jobs » Late last year, conservatives advocated pushing GM into a Chapter 11 bankruptcy proceeding. Echoing the conservative line last December, Sen. Jim DeMint (R-SC) told the Fox Business Network:
“We don’t think it is the role of government to intervene…We need to let the market and the laws work the way they are already in place.”
But doing it then, without a pre-packaged agreement amongst creditors, suppliers, workers and management, alongside protections for consumers, could have been disastrous.
As Susan Helper, an economics professor at Case Western Reserve University, told the Huffington Post, “I thought filing for bankruptcy in December would be a disaster…It would have focused people on fighting over who was going to get paid, rather than making the companies work better.”
Merely plunging into bankruptcy proceedings without a prepackaged plan would have left suppliers and manufacturers of intermediate goods (who provide parts and materials for every car company with factories in the Unites States — including Toyota and Honda) struggling to secure credit, forcing cascading layoffs and stalled production that would have caused slowdowns throughout the industry. Combined with customers who would steer clear of Detroit brands because of uncertainty surrounding maintenance warranties, a messy bankruptcy could have have kicked off a vicious downward spiral that could have ended in liquidation and enormous job losses.
A study from the Center for Automotive Research suggests that an unsuccessful bankruptcy of GM and Chrysler would have cost approximately 1.3 million jobs. “Instead,” reports the New Republic, “the likely hit from the twin restructurings is 250,000.”
A GM in bankruptcy last November, in the midst of a nearly frozen credit-market, would have found it nearly impossible to find creditors to finance them through a Chapter 11, so without government assistance, they probably would have had to undergo a rapid and jarring liquidation under Chapter 7. This would have meant mass layoffs, a sell-off of assets at bargain basement prices, dismantling of factories, and hundreds of thousands more Americans straining states’ fraying unemployment safety nets, and a denial of millions of dollars in revenue to starved state budgets. More »« Less Comments 1
Posted by raybond on :
As GM Files Bankruptcy, Conservatives Again Claiming That Bondholders Were Treated Unfairly General Motor’s long awaited trip into bankruptcy is official as of this morning. Of course, conservatives have been decrying the plight of the company’s creditors, who are receiving a ten percent stake in the company, while a 17.5 percent stake will go to the United Auto Workers’ health trust. First, the Wall Street Journal’s editorial board:
Every decision the feds have made since December suggests that nonpolitical management will be impossible…Treasury bludgeoned the bond holders in both Chrysler and GM to take pennies on the dollar, which will not make creditors eager to lend to the companies in the future.
And conservative members of the House:
“The proposal seems to favor the rights and claims of the UAW, a political ally of the current administration and a powerful lobbying force in Washington, over the rights and claims of the company’s diverse group of bondholders,” according to a letter from 20 House members, led by Rep. Jeb Hensarling (R-Tex.), to Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner. “Contractual rights of investors are being trampled by the government under the rationale of ‘extraordinary circumstances.’ ”
We went through the same song and dance with Chrysler’s bankruptcy filing earlier this month, and the concerns don’t hold any more weight now. As the Washington Post noted today, “there are a number of precedents for retiree health funds getting preferential treatment during bankruptcies, particularly in the steel industry in recent years when Bethlehem Steel and others were sold off”:
“We felt that we needed the strong support of the union going forward,” said Wilbur Ross, who ran the private-equity firm that acquired Bethlehem after its 2001 bankruptcy filing. “It’s one thing to compromise a union contract. It’s another thing to get them working with good morale.”
“The only difference here is that you have the government playing the role of the vulture investor,” Ross added. “They are the only ones willing to make this investment, so they’re calling the shots.”
It’s also likely that the GM bondholders would get no more in liquidation than they are getting under the current deal, which may be why a majority of bondholders (54 percent) have jumped on board. Plus, as Harold Meyerson put it, “shareholders and bondholders knew they were taking risks when they invested in the company, but workers were flatly promised pensions and health benefits in retirement, payments for which were deducted from their paychecks.”
GM workers have already given up a lot in wage and benefit cuts, and they’re going to see their ranks thinned by some 21,000. In light of this, refusing to gut their health trust seems like the right decision.
UpdateFelix Salmon has
Posted by Machiavelli on :
Toyota still king of quality, despite Big 3 gains
J.D. Power and Associates study says Cadillac is top contender behind Lexus and Porche
Ford, General Motors and Chrysler have made strides in new vehicle quality over the last year, but they still lag behind their foreign competitors, according to a closely watched study released Monday by J.D. Power and Associates.
The initial quality of 2009 model year vehicles sold by the Detroit Three improved by an average of 10 percent from last year, the marketing and consulting company said. Industrywide, scores improved an average of 8 percent.
"The Detroit automakers are keeping their focus on designing and building high-quality vehicles, which is a precondition for long-term success," said David Sargent, vice president of automotive research at J.D. Power, in a statement.
Lexus, Toyota Motor Corp.'s luxury line, was the top brand in J.D. Power's initial quality study, an annual survey of vehicle owners that measures mechanical and design problems in the first 90 days of ownership.
Porsche was the No. 2 brand, followed by GM's Cadillac, then
Hyundai and Honda.
Toyota, which supplanted General Motors Corp. as the world's largest automaker last year, also swept 10 vehicle segment awards. Its assembly facility in Higashi-Fuji, Japan, that builds the Lexus SC 430 and the Toyota Corolla took the J.D. Power's top plant award.
The worst-performing brand was Mini, with owners reporting 165 problems per 100 vehicles. Though Chrysler's scores improved year over year, it had no brands above the industry average. It tied for one segment award, with its PT Cruiser Wagon sharing the top award in the compact activity vehicle segment with Honda's CR-V. Chrysler, however, is discontinuing the car.
Cadillac and Chevrolet were GM's only two brands whose 2009 models performed above average. The four brands GM is purging under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection -- Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer and Saab -- were the company's worst rated. The Chevrolet TrailBlazer and GMC Yukon SUVs were rated best in their segments.
Jamie Hresko, GM's vice president for global quality, said the automaker has worked hard to improve vehicle quality over the last five years. Chevrolet and Cadillac account for 70 percent of GM's volume, he said, and top marks for those segments are an indication the effort is paying off.
"Is it where we need to be? No," Hresko said. "To have our core brands -- Cadillac and Chevrolet -- be on par with Toyota, we have reached a level of quality that will allow us to change perceptions."
Ford Motor Co., the only major U.S. automaker that has not filed for bankruptcy protection or accepted government aid, also saw scores improve for three of its four brands: Ford, Mercury and
Volvo. But its Lincoln brand's score fell, and only Ford and Mercury performed above the industry average.
The average industry score improved to 108 problems per 100 vehicles, down from 118 in 2008.
J.D. Power credited the improvement to several well-received new models that were launched in 2009. It said vehicles like Hyundai's Genesis, Kia's Borrego, Toyota's Venza and Volkswagen's CC performed better than their segment averages. Several redesigned 2009 models also scored well, J.D. Power said.
The scores come during a tumultuous time for the auto industry, with sales at their worst level in decades and taxpayers stuck funding the restructuring of GM and Chrysler Group LLC to the tune of billions of dollars. Although the two automakers have been pummeled by the economic crisis, many analysts have complained that a shortage of high-quality small car offerings has hobbled their performance in the down market.
GM has several new, small vehicles on the way that industry analysts say should help it better compete with established offerings from Toyota, Honda and other foreign competitors. It plans to start building the subcompact Chevrolet Cruze next year and says it will get about 40 miles per gallon. It also plans to sell the Chevrolet Spark minicar in the U.S. in 2011.
The road may be tougher for Chrysler. Cars like the sporty 500 made by its new owner, Italy's Fiat Group SpA, won't make it to the U.S. until late next year. The Auburn Hills, Mich., company plans to roll out new versions of its popular Jeep Grand Cherokee SUV and Chrysler 300 large sedan by the end of next year, along with a rechargeable electric vehicle, but these plans likely have been delayed by the bankruptcy process.
J.D. Power's rankings were based on questionnaires from 80,900 people who bought or leased new 2009 vehicles between February and May. The questionnaires ask 228 questions on issues from handling, braking and engine trouble, to seat comfort and stereo systems.
The rankings are closely watched by automakers and consumers, and are frequently used in advertising. However, some critics question whether they show any real statistical difference between automakers. Mini's ranking, for example, equates to 1.65 problems per vehicle. Top-performer Lexus had 84 problems per 100 vehicles, or 0.84 per vehicle. So on average, less than one problem per vehicle separates the best brand from the worst.
Posted by glassman on :
Uh, i'm not sure your point there Mach,
i think this sums it up:
So on average, less than one problem per vehicle separates the best brand from the worst.
but the "conservatives" that don't like stimulus should look at what China's stimulus package did for China and how "competitive" it made them, while doing so consider that their package was over more than half of ours, while our economy is about 3 to 4 times the size of theirs :
Beijing's leaders are patting themselves on the back for moving fast to prime the pump. Speaking at a conference over the weekend, Li Rongrong, head of the watchdog organization for China's largest state-owned enterprises, said earnings at those companies grew 26% in March compared with the same period a year ago. In a speech on Apr. 18 at the same conference, on the tropical island of Hainan, Premier Wen Jiabao said the government deserved credit for the good news. "China's rapid reaction in rolling out the stimulus package has resolved some prominent problems in the economy, strengthened market confidence, and stabilized people's expectations," Wen said. "Vigor and Commitment
Much of the juice is coming from state-owned banks. While the Obama Administration struggles to get U.S. banks to start lending again, Chinese banks are following government orders and flooding the country with loans. In the first three months of the year, new lending by Chinese banks grew 30%, to $676 billion. That means the banks are already more than 90% toward Beijing's target for the whole year.
as far as i'm concerend? people who calle dfor allowing everything to collapse were just helping the commies
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: Uh, i'm not sure your point there Mach,
i think this sums it up:
So on average, less than one problem per vehicle separates the best brand from the worst.
Point is American car quality is not up to par to foreign car quality though they are improving therefor that is why Toyota is doing better while American companies keep sinking (GM and Chrysler at least).... but too little too late so to speak...
Posted by glassman on :
Point is American car quality is not up to par to foreign car quality though they are improving therefor that is why Toyota is doing better while American companies keep sinking
you didn't really read the article then.
first off? Lexus is the best and Cooper Mini's are the worst. Cooper is a BMW product. that's foreign.
Cadillac was how much worse than Lexus? Does it even say? 1 more complaint per 100 cars or 2?
Chrysler was part OF Mercedes until just recently.
the difference between the brands is so small that it's indistinguishable.
as the article says.
lastly? the way they grade the vehicles is very subjective, it's a questionnaire sent to new owners....
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Well if American automakers didnt have cars that crapped out all the time they would be sitting a lot better.
Anyone remember the Pontiac Grand Am or Grand Prix of the 90s? Fell apart like no tomorrow. Chrysler mini-vans of the 80s? WOW...couldnt ever get past 50,000 miles without something major going out.
There is a reason Honda and Toyota came up through the ranks over the years. KIA I still think sucks though, and I still wont buy a Hyundai or however you spell it.
Posted by retiredat49 on :
CCM...you really are clueless when it comes to cars...
I will agree with you on Chrysler products (even today they still have quality issues), but American automakers (GM & Ford) have been building cars and trucks that meet or exceed the quality of foreign automakers for years...
Posted by retiredat49 on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
as far as i'm concerend? people who calle dfor allowing everything to collapse were just helping the commies
You mean people like Shelby, Corker, DeMint, and cokehead Kudlow???
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: lastly? the way they grade the vehicles is very subjective, it's a questionnaire sent to new owners....
ahh and in your opinion someone can't make a honest and correct opinion on a car or cars they have driven or owned/leased? Only people like Retired can who is biased due to what his job is or was though he will never admit it? i guess we shouldn't have ordinary citizens on juries since they can't even make an intelligent decision on cars...
I've driven/owned both american and now Japanese car. Somehow I think i can tell which car gave me the better experience and I promise you it wasn't the American one...
There is a reason why Toyota and Honda keeps coming up on top all the time...
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Well if American automakers didnt have cars that crapped out all the time they would be sitting a lot better.
Anyone remember the Pontiac Grand Am or Grand Prix of the 90s? Fell apart like no tomorrow. Chrysler mini-vans of the 80s? WOW...couldnt ever get past 50,000 miles without something major going out.
There is a reason Honda and Toyota came up through the ranks over the years. KIA I still think sucks though, and I still wont buy a Hyundai or however you spell it.
Wow, something we actually agree on For once your not Mooing... but as for Hyundai I haven't heard anything truely bad about them... never owned/leased one but was planning on taking my aunt to go look at some since she is in market to buy a car...
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: and cokehead Kudlow???
ewwww i'm not fond of him neither... think he is still using?
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli:
quote:Originally posted by glassman: lastly? the way they grade the vehicles is very subjective, it's a questionnaire sent to new owners....
ahh and in your opinion someone can't make a honest and correct opinion on a car or cars they have driven or owned/leased? Only people like Retired can who is biased due to what his job is or was though he will never admit it? i guess we shouldn't have ordinary citizens on juries since they can't even make an intelligent decision on cars...
I've driven/owned both american and now Japanese car. Somehow I think i can tell which car gave me the better experience and I promise you it wasn't the American one...
There is a reason why Toyota and Honda keeps coming up on top all the time...
LOL..
i used to do repo work, i owned several tow trucks. i kept them working 24-7 on repair work too.
i towed just as many foreign cars off the side of the road as did American cars.
JD powers polled people who have owned a car for how long? 3 months? LOL... yeah they are an ADVERTISING company.
have you ever looked at NADA books to cacklack how cars hold value? Honda does well, so does Ford and GM, Toyota not so well last i looked.
Honda is the only foreign car that i would own and for only one reason; CHEAPNESS to operate.
i just this past week tried to change a timing belt on one for someone that is a good friend. i offered to do it for free. they buy parts.
i have all the tools and it seemed like it should be a pleasant way to spend the day with JR.
got all the way to the crank pulley (about 400$ worth of labor to non wrench spinners) and could not get it off.
now i own the second most powerful air torque wrench commonly available, there is one that is more powerful but it cost 600$ versus the 450 i paid for this one.
i opened the air up to 120 PSI and it still won't pull the bolt holding on the crank pulley.
i did everything but put a 5 foot cheater bar and use my Oxy torch. i did use the non-oxy torch and cooling propellant to alternately heat and chill the bolt.
if i put a 5 foot cheater bar and the oxy torch to it,and break the nut off? i turn a 1000$ job into a 2500$ job and the car ain't even broke. it's just maintenance.
the bolt is supposed to have 119 ft-pounds of torque on it. i hit it with over 250
why did i even do this? cuz the friend who owns this car just paid 700$ for a major tuneup at the honda dealer. the dealer said they need to come back ASAP to get a new timing belt.
that just pissed me off. screw that. now? they are going to have to pay 1000$ for the timing belt job at the dealer because the Honda line set the torque on the factory installers torque gun too high.
and if the dealer breaks it? you can bet the dealer will charge the owner, not the factory.
the car just went out of the extra$$ extended warranty which did not cover regular maintenance like tuneups and timing belts
i happen to know for fact that every car made is likely to have at least one major problem over the life of 200,000 miles. foregin or domestic.
it's just the way we (people) build cars. there is no noticable difference between most American and Japanese cars to auto repair people in generel.
sure, there's pigs, esp. when people want HP in small car, real big engines in a samll engine compartment will make a repair guy crazy every time. but that's customers choice ain't it?
the JD powers
Dependability Ratings by Brand Overall Dependability 1. Buick (GM) 2. Jaguar (Ford) 3. Lexus (same as Toyo) 4. Toyota 5. Mercury (Ford)
the biggest difference is how much money you have to spend, you get what you pay for, and if your more expensive car breaks? you pay alot more too.
before i started my repo biz, i managed a six bay repair shop for someone else, my cousins family have owned one continuously since their father started it in the early 50's.
i used to race dirt tracks and build my own cars and engines, i even built big 4X4's for ahwile.
there is no noticable difference
Posted by Machiavelli on :
I've had my Nissan for a little over a year now Glass.. and the only problem I had with it was a recall that was fixed free of charge by Nissan... I've had both american and now Japanese and maybe to you there is no noticeable difference but to me there is and i am not saying that because it's implanted in my mind by the media... i am just telling you my own personal experience with both... my american cars constantly had problems and cost me alot in repairs... again that is just my personal experience and from what I see others have the same experience...
Btw isn't Jaguar not owned by Ford anymore and is one again a foreign car?
Posted by glassman on :
and i am not saying that because it's implanted in my mind by the media..
but i am and i've had my hands deep in the guts of hundreds of cars and trucks, i'm not basing it on a personal experience with five cars like most people. and not form the point of view of having to pay somebody else 700 for a tuneup.
i don't and never did work for any of the 'facturers either.
Jag was sold less than a year ago so it's reputation is Fords until much later this year, or early next
i am not GM person, i've always been a Ford person. but that's just silly game all of us car buffs play.
in my boats? i've always gone for the 350 chevy. i did have a boat once that had a429 ford engine in it, but i get rid of the motoer and put a 350 chevy in... marine parts are different from auto parts and chevy marine parts are cheap.
i have owned about 15 Ford Trucks-SUV's_Vans.
i've only owned about 8 Ford Cars.
i owned a 300ZX for along time. that thing sucked as far as quality and breakage. i worked on it all the time, but,it's the only car i've ever owned that i felt comfortable at over 100 MPH, so i kept it and drove it when i felt like being squirrelly.
i've owned Mustangs and T-Birds that were just as quick or quicker, but they just don't handle well at 100.
the only thing the Japanese cars are/were better at is fuel economy and the cheapest first 100,000 miles. after that first 100,000? they are all the same now, and i'm not even sure the first 100,000 miles are cheaper today.
i'm 6'2 190 and my hands don't fit very well into Japanese cars, but the newer American cars are just as bad for that as the Japanese now. even the new trucks can be a pain
Posted by glassman on :
anyway, GM is ready to come out of BK.
by bailing and stalling the BK till everything was in place? i'm sure we saved our country 100's of millions of $ if not billions.
all the extra jobs that we would have (for sure) lost would have still cost us a fortune.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
To me Glass it doesn't matter how many cars a person has had it's what that persons' experience is with the cars they have owned/leased... I may have owned/leased less cars then you but to me American cars (not trucks) are not good enough quality to foreign cars.... that is not to say they aren't good quality just not GOOD ENOUGH... I do not know the mechanics of cars and i admit it but i do know from my own experience which cars hit my wallet more and which don't... that is what i based things on... my wallet and the end of the day that is all that matters...
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: anyway, GM is ready to come out of BK.
by bailing and stalling the BK till everything was in place? i'm sure we saved our country 100's of millions of $ if not billions.
all the extra jobs that we would have (for sure) lost would have still cost us a fortune.
I agree with you but try convincing the naysayers on this board that... I think you, me , Retired and very few others see it...
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: CCM...you really are clueless when it comes to cars...
I will agree with you on Chrysler products (even today they still have quality issues), but American automakers (GM & Ford) have been building cars and trucks that meet or exceed the quality of foreign automakers for years...
I have owned over 10 seperate cars. Trust me, I would rather buy American made. However, I would feel a LOT safer driving a 1991 Honda Accord on a long road trip over a 1991 Pontiac grand am anyday.
I favor Ford, especially Ford trucks such as the King Ranch.
If you want to get 200,000 miles out of a car your best bet is with a Honda or Toyota. There is just something they did with getting the best engineers on board instead of what Detroit did during the 80s.
Toyota has become so successful they built plants in the United States and now AMERICANS build Toyota vehicles.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Toyota has become so successful they built plants in the United States and now AMERICANS build Toyota vehicles.
Gives or keeps Americans with jobs.. that is for sure... Posted by retiredat49 on :
Way LESS jobs than American companies car for car...You are still putting Americans out of work when you buy foreign cars...I don't care where they are made...
Posted by Machiavelli on :
just out of curiosity how many employees do foreign car companies employ that are American here and abroad? Roughly... both executive and non executive positions...
Posted by glassman on :
here's WHY the Japanese were able to add a few more dollars to engineering versus American cars:
n the Japanese health care system, healthcare services, including "free" screening examinations for particular diseases, prenatal care, and infectious disease control, are provided by national and local governments. Payment for personal medical services is offered through a universal health care insurance system that provides relative equality of access, with fees set by a government committee. People without insurance through employers can participate in a national health insurance program administered by local governments. Since 1973, all elderly persons have been covered by government-sponsored insurance. Patients are free to select physicians or facilities of their choice.
in "Freemarket" America? yo uare competing against a world of competitors that have figured out how to cut costs that you just cannot cut. they have been assited by their GOVERNMENTS! not hampered.
when the japanes car co's came to America? they didn't have the "legacy costs" that American car co's had. they WERE able to spend a few extra dollars by balancing engines (for instance) a balanced engine runs an extra 50,000 miles, today? there are no real difference anymore, except the legacy costs that have beaten up GM.
now, why did we allow the Toyota motor co come here when we can't go there?
to increase competition, was the competiotion fair? hell no! who profits and who loses?
we see clearly everybody that's losing, who profits?
hmmmmm....
Toyota builds employee health clinic in new factory to reduce health care costs 8. November 2006 18:44 In an effort to contain health care spending, Toyota Motor will construct a $9 million medical clinic for employees and their families at its new San Antonio truck factory, the Detroit News reports.
the gasoline (manipulated) crisis is what stomped them.
it really is depressing to hear so many people argue the wrong points all the time because it means that whoever is profiting is doing a good job of keeping thier heads low.
profit is not a bad thing. forcing co's into BK and having to break contracts simply because it's profitable (for a small few) is a very bad thing. that's what has happened in our country.
Posted by raybond on :
There is no doubt about it and very simple to see if we would have left things alone GM and Chrysler would have never made it and that would have been a bad mistake and terrible for the country. Gm needed to reform itself to survive but did not have the capital to do so. And that my friends was a pure as the driven snow management fault
Posted by glassman on :
i admit it but i do know from my own experience which cars hit my wallet more and which don't... that is what i based things on... my wallet and the end of the day that is all that matters...
if that was the norm in America? then NOBODY would be driving Lexus or Cadilaac or even Buick.
we'd all drive SMART cars, not SUVs and truck and vans.
the economic crisis is what did GM in.
Toyota became the number one car seller as result of ridiculous oil prices. not before.
Posted by retiredat49 on :
And since the price of oil has come back down to realistic levels, the lots (dealerships) are full of hybrids that nobody wants...
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
now, why did we allow the Toyota motor co come here when we can't go there?
Why would we? I never seen Japan as a big market for U.S. cars except perhaps muscle cars for collectors.. just imo...
but as for the Japanese businessmen/corporations... they are very smart at business and i see them as samurai in suits who are cutthroat and wise when it comes to business unlike their American counterparts... to me what they did for their country economically since the end of WW2 is remarkable...
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
if that was the norm in America? then NOBODY would be driving Lexus or Cadilaac or even Buick.
we'd all drive SMART cars, not SUVs and truck and vans.
the economic crisis is what did GM in.
Toyota became the number one car seller as result of ridiculous oil prices. not before.
I didn't say it was the norm or that it should be... just saying what I do for myself... saving money in however way possible in terms of cars is practical... to me buying an American car just to save American jobs that MAY cost me more $$ in the long run then to their foreign counterparts is rather silly...
American car workers do not care about jewelry workers and do not buy to save american jewelry jobs so why should i care about them? If anything it's every man for himself right now and if a foreign car saves me in gas, repairs, price at the dealer etc. that is what I will base my decision on what car i want to buy...
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: And since the price of oil has come back down to realistic levels, the lots (dealerships) are full of hybrids that nobody wants...
You still haven't answered my question about how many Americans are employed in the foreign companies here and abroad or if someone else can answer it.. whomever knows the numbers roughly..
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: Toyota became the number one car seller as result of ridiculous oil prices. not before.
I think also customer service factors into it... to make a long story short my aunt is looking to buy a car and i took her last Friday to go look at cars here are the results in short list in order of visit:
1.Honda was so busy we were not able to get a salesman to help us out so we left
2. We went to Nissan next and the guy I got my car from wasn't in that day so we left. Btw I would of gotten $200 fee from him if my aunt bought from him just for referring her to him.
3. At Toyota they were busy as well but the salesman who attended to us was an azzhole. First mistake he made was dropping another person on us to show us the car (Carolla) instead of him taking us personally.2nd mistake he made was being belligerent and insulting to me when I offered $13K for the car and he practically laughed at me and pulled a couple of coworkers aside and asked them if they would sell a Corolla for $13k? In front of my mother and aunt. That is how or why car salesmen get a sleazy reputation. I kept my cool to see what he had to offer in price. He offered $16,200 for buying and $239 I believe for lease with $2,200 down. Needless to say i took my aunt and said let's get out of here. I looked in the newspaper after I left there to see comparable prices for the same car. All the other Toyota dealers were offering $13,998 for buy and $169 to $189 for lease for same $$ down. Like I said he was an azzhole and I am writing a letter to his manager to let him know why he lost the sale.
4. Next we went to Mazda, totally different atmosphere. Not too busy like the others and the salesman was of the uttermost professionalism. Very nice guy though I'm sure he was being so to make the sale. He looked like Bill Clinton, no joke and with a american flag tie. I haggled him down on price for a Mazda 3T in metallic blue of some sort. Sticker price was $19,050 and he finally went down to $17,900. I checked later and the price is comparable to other Mazda dealers.Also they were offering 24/7 roadside assistance. My aunt put down $500 deposit to think about it. She didn't take my advice on buying it a few days later and instead took my dumb cousins' advice not to buy it because he says the parts are too much or this or that. He's an idiot. I told her if she is going to listen to his advice and ignore mine and waste my time she should go with him instead and get the deposit back.She did a couple nights ago and salesman called me yesterday to try to talk to her which I didn't. But i told him i would see what i could do.
5. When i cool off and when my aunt gets back from her Costa Rica vacation I will take her to another Toyota place because she has her heart set on a Corolla. Hope she don't tick me off this time.
Posted by glassman on :
Mazda is ford Posted by retiredat49 on :
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli: [
American car workers do not care about jewelry workers and do not buy to save american jewelry jobs so why should i care about them? If anything it's every man for himself right now [/QB]
That's bullsh!t Mach...most American auto workers are VERY choosy from who they buy their goods from, and I guarantee you that average American autoworkers do indeed buy jewelry...I personally ONLY buy American if it is an option...
In answer to the second part of the STUPIDEST post I have ever seen above...
DIVIDED WE FALL!!!!!!!!
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: Mazda is ford
Was... Posted by glassman on :
they still own over 10%.
Ford rescued Mazda from BK as i recall
"The sale of Mazda shares by our partner, Ford, will not result in any change in Mazda's strategic direction," Mazda chief Hisakazu Imaki said. "We will continue our strategic relationship through our ongoing joint ventures with Ford." Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: That's bullsh!t Mach...most American auto workers are VERY choosy from who they buy their goods from, and I guarantee you that average American autoworkers do indeed buy jewelry...I personally ONLY buy American if it is an option...
Shows how much you know about jewelry... all diamonds are from foreign lands... Australia, Canada, South Africa, Russia etc. As well as gold/precious metals (though Palladium seems to be mined in Montana)are more from foreign lands and gemstones other then diamonds (very little are mined in U.S.)... as for manufacturing jewelry, 80% of diamonds are cut and polished in India... these are the commercial quality diamonds that are found more in mass produced jewelry in such places as Walmart, Zales, Kay Jewelers etc. higher quality diamonds are cut/polished in Tel Aviv, New York, Germany, Antwerp etc. Very little in NY actually compared to other cutting centers.
So I would rethink your statement again Retired one... because you can speak for yourself in terms of buying habits but you can't speak for others though you would like to.. and if you didn't know you were not buying American when it comes to Jewelry, you do now. So no you are not supporting my industry and i have no reason to support yours when I am more then satisfied with foreign cars (my previous american cars i filled up once or twice a week) who I gas up every other week saving me $$.
quote:In answer to the second part of the STUPIDEST post I have ever seen above...
DIVIDED WE FALL!!!!!!!!
So basically your biased and can't answer the question because of that or because you just don't know the numbers for Americans working in foreign car companies then. I only asked out of curiosity and not because i disagreed with you on anything. I thought perhaps since you are an insider you would know the #'s but I guess you don't. Perhaps I should ask Glass who most times is impartial and gives number facts instead.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: they still own over 10%.
Ford rescued Mazda from BK as i recall
"The sale of Mazda shares by our partner, Ford, will not result in any change in Mazda's strategic direction," Mazda chief Hisakazu Imaki said. "We will continue our strategic relationship through our ongoing joint ventures with Ford."
they are still Japanese to me and they are still good quality cars imo... I might consider getting the Mazda 3T next year when my Nissan lease runs out... we shall see... great car from what i seen at the showroom... my aunt should of took it...
Posted by glassman on :
all i've been trying to tell you is that there is no significant difference anymnore between Japanese and American cars.
Mazda designed the original Ford Explorer. the lines have blurred. those JD Powers reports even say the differences between the best and worse are negligable, and the BK of GM has nothing to do with poor quality.
It's actually the people you seem to think the least of (freemarketeers) that crushed our economy and in the process GM. Which is kind of funny when you get going on about them...
your Nissan may have been made right here in MS with (conservative) State taxpayer incentives Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: all i've been trying to tell you is that there is no significant difference anymnore between Japanese and American cars.
Mazda designed the original Ford Explorer. the lines have blurred. those JD Powers reports even say the differences between the best and worse are negligable, and the BK of GM has nothing to do with poor quality.
It's actually the people you seem to think the least of (freemarketeers) that crushed our economy and in the process GM. Which is kind of funny when you get going on about them...
your Nissan may have been made right here in MS with (conservative) State taxpayer incentives
I plan on buying a Chevy Volt in 2011...I would say 2010 but they are really having troubles with the timeline, plus I want to give them a tad bit to catch anything when they start rolling out.
Posted by jgrecoconstr on :
Why wouldn't you just buy a Ford CCM?
Posted by glassman on :
Ford took no bailout money.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by jgrecoconstr: Why wouldn't you just buy a Ford CCM?
Oh, when it comes to trucks...its only Ford. I just like the exterior and interior of the Volt. Here is the problem, Obama wants this cap and trade...even HE admits it will raise electric rates. So, a Volt plugs into the wall and you have to pay a higher electric bill? Does it pay out?
Im not buying the Volt for eco friendliness I just find it a fascinating vehicle...so far that is. Basically, I like the looks of it. How it rides is something else...if it is rough or too tight then forget it.
Now, for a new truck? F-250 KING RANCH...hands down, or F-350 KR.
Those are the sweetest trucks on the market.
Posted by jgrecoconstr on :
I'm waiting for an alternate fuel f-150 or 250. It will be a little cheaper for e-85 fuel. Actually short term it will be cheaper but once more vehicles run on ethanol it will be the same as gas is now. E-85 is cheaper here in NY but not by alot and if I'm correct which I'm not sure I am NY doesn't fully tax ethanol yet which means if the demand for gas ever diminishes and alternate fuels start to surpass gas sales then obviously the state is losing revenue and then guess what happens. As far as Ford though I love they didn't take any money and I've always had good luck with my trucks, So I will always buy Ford.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Yes sir you have got me pegged...I am biased towards Americans and keeping good paying jobs in America for Americans...
BTW your attempt to mislead everyone here about your political "beliefs" are quite transparent...either that or you are just one confused young man
You say that you loathe republicans and their ideals...yet as evidenced by your posts, you agree with them on more issues than you do the Dems...
Your contradictions have earned you ZERO credibility here...
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49:
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli:
So basically your biased
BTW your attempt to mislead everyone here about your political "beliefs" are quite transparent...either that or you are just one confused young man
You say that you loathe republicans and their ideals...yet as evidenced by your posts, you agree with them on more issues than you do the Dems...
Your contradictions have earned you ZERO credibility here... [/QB]
LoL care to point out how my ideals agree with the GOP? I don't think anyone here would say i lean to the right...
I'm anti death penalty, pro immigrant, anti gun, i'm for workfare (a form of welfare), pro union (when they don't abuse their power), pro gay marriage and on and on... LoL
Please ole Wise Retired One.. enlighten me... if you do find a issue or two i agree with the GOP or even partially that still does not make me leaning right... because my leftist beliefs way OUTWEIGH anything I might remotely agree with the Right...
But you on the other hand are Pro union which to me is more to the left and of which the Right seems to be against because they are for Big Business...
And as for you thinking your not biased... I would venture to bet not one person on this board would agree with you and that most if not all think you are biased because of the industry & company you work for and the Union you belong to.
You have that nasty little habit of speaking for others who are not asking you to. When you really mean is your speaking for yourself. Trust me when I say this that my politics lean to the LEFT. I've voted for the Dems in every election since I was 18. The only time i remotely considered voting for a GOPer was for Pete King because of his going to bat on the Breast Cancer issue but his racial BS killed any vote he would of gotten from me.
Nice try but if anyone has ZERO credibility in showing impartial opinion when it comes to the Car Industry issue that would be you sir. Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Here....let your eyes water at this awesomeness
this car will have at least 500 HP- some come with just under 800 if you order the right parts
Posted by retiredat49 on :
OK...Ole simple minded one...Here are a couple...
You are NOT even remotely pro union...If you were, you would support the union by purchasing products made by union workers...YOU DON"T!!!
You ARE a freemarketeer, which by the way are the ones who have attempted to destroy the unions in this country, and are also the ones responsible for the economic situation that we find ourselves in today...Oh and they also happen to be for the most part GOP...
One more thing...you are COMPLETELY self-serving, and that my little pompous friend, doesn't come close to the ideology of a Democrat or a union...
P.S. I have already stated very clearly that I am biased...I am for America and Americans first & foremost...
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Glass you right, since I do like Ford better im not sure why I didnt think of it first. Probably because I had recently seen a pic of a Camaro.
I have had 3 Mustangs myself. Havent had one in a while.
white 1990 LX 5.0 convertible Custom cherry red 1995 5.0 GT Yellow 1998 4.6 GT
Between my red and yello Mustang I bought a 1996 Z-28 6-speed.
All cars a lot of fun.
Here is what I found to be sexy on the Mustang side...I like black paint.
I would take the Camaro over the Stang...Fords designs never have got me all hot & bothered...
Ford makes excellent products and I wouldn't hesitate to buy one even though I worked for GM...they just never did anything for me stylewise...
Same with trucks, both excellent vehicles...just don't like the "looks" of a Ford...
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: OK...Ole simple minded one...Here are a couple...
You are NOT even remotely pro union...If you were, you would support the union by purchasing products made by union workers...YOU DON"T!!!
You ARE a freemarketeer, which by the way are the ones who have attempted to destroy the unions in this country, and are also the ones responsible for the economic situation that we find ourselves in today...Oh and they also happen to be for the most part GOP...
One more thing...you are COMPLETELY self-serving, and that my little pompous friend, doesn't come close to the ideology of a Democrat or a union...
P.S. I have already stated very clearly that I am biased...I am for America and Americans first & foremost...
i'll make this short since you seem to have alzheimers and are short of memory.
1. Pro Union does not mean Pro American made. A foreign company who has plants or whatever here can be unionized so your logic is mute. To me Pro Union and i think others might agree as well, is Pro Labor or the protection of workers from abuses from their employers such as from low wages, health/safety issues, long hours, etc.. etc.. Your mind is so warped you forgot what being in a Union is about. And btw since you know so much about me, my mother belonged to a union when she was working (she's retired now). And even though her Union was no better then her employer they did get her health benefits etc. So yes I am pro Union over Pro Big business. So forgive me for saying this but you know jack sh*t about me.
2. Me a Free Marketeer? Read who I quoted in my signature Ole Blind one lol I am very much for regulations of industries. Even Glass and some of the others including Mooman can attest to this LoL That is kind of contradictory isn't it? How can i be Pro Big Business if I am Pro Regulation? I'll let you rethink your thoughts.
3. Me self serving? Let's just say I am about self serving as you are. How self serving are you?
I find you amusing getting your panties in a bunch. What did it? Was it the lecture I gave you on Jewelry not being American or was it because I called you on the fact you couldn't give me #'s as to how many Americans are employed by foreign car companies? Or both? You must of been waiting all day on your computer to confront me tonight. Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
I have had 3 Mustangs myself. Havent had one in a while.
white 1990 LX 5.0 convertible Custom cherry red 1995 5.0 GT Yellow 1998 4.6 GT
very nice... my fave american car of all time.. stangs..
Posted by retiredat49 on :
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli:
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: OK...Ole simple minded one...Here are a couple...
You are NOT even remotely pro union...If you were, you would support the union by purchasing products made by union workers...YOU DON"T!!!
You ARE a freemarketeer, which by the way are the ones who have attempted to destroy the unions in this country, and are also the ones responsible for the economic situation that we find ourselves in today...Oh and they also happen to be for the most part GOP...
One more thing...you are COMPLETELY self-serving, and that my little pompous friend, doesn't come close to the ideology of a Democrat or a union...
P.S. I have already stated very clearly that I am biased...I am for America and Americans first & foremost...
i'll make this short since you seem to have alzheimers and are short of memory.
1. Pro Union does not mean Pro American made. A foreign company who has plants or whatever here can be unionized so your logic is mute. To me Pro Union and i think others might agree as well, is Pro Labor or the protection of workers from abuses from their employers such as from low wages, health/safety issues, long hours, etc.. etc.. Your mind is so warped you forgot what being in a Union is about. And btw since you know so much about me, my mother belonged to a union when she was working (she's retired now). And even though her Union was no better then her employer they did get her health benefits etc. So yes I am pro Union over Pro Big business. So forgive me for saying this but you know jack sh*t about me.
2. Me a Free Marketeer? Read who I quoted in my signature Ole Blind one lol I am very much for regulations of industries. Even Glass and some of the others including Mooman can attest to this LoL That is kind of contradictory isn't it? How can i be Pro Big Business if I am Pro Regulation? I'll let you rethink your thoughts.
3. Me self serving? Let's just say I am about self serving as you are. How self serving are you?
I find you amusing getting your panties in a bunch. What did it? Was it the lecture I gave you on Jewelry not being American or was it because I called you on the fact you couldn't give me #'s as to how many Americans are employed by foreign car companies? Or both? You must of been waiting all day on your computer to confront me tonight.
You are just being stupid now Mach...
1. Foreign car makers that have plants here in America can be unionized...
PROBLEM WITH YOUR STATEMENT...THEY AREN'T UNIONIZED
2. Calling yourself Pro-Union doesn't mean anything other than your support of Unions...
YOU DON"T SUPPORT UNIONS
3. Here is a quote from an earlier post of yours
"American car workers do not care about jewelry workers and do not buy to save american jewelry jobs so why should i care about them? If anything it's every man for himself right now"...
YOU ARE A LYING, SELF-SERVING, POMPOUS, SIMPLE MINDED FOOL
Posted by retiredat49 on :
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli:
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo:
I have had 3 Mustangs myself. Havent had one in a while.
white 1990 LX 5.0 convertible Custom cherry red 1995 5.0 GT Yellow 1998 4.6 GT
very nice... my fave american car of all time.. stangs..
That's because you have no sense of STYLE...
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: You are just being stupid now Mach...
1. Foreign car makers that have plants here in America can be unionized...
PROBLEM WITH YOUR STATEMENT...THEY AREN'T UNIONIZED
2. Calling yourself Pro-Union doesn't mean anything other than your support of Unions...
YOU DON"T SUPPORT UNIONS
3. Here is a quote from an earlier post of yours
"American car workers do not care about jewelry workers and do not buy to save american jewelry jobs so why should i care about them? If anything it's every man for himself right now"...
YOU ARE A LYING, SELF-SERVING, POMPOUS, SIMPLE MINDED FOOL
Actually Ole man you put your foot in your mouth over and over with me tonight.
1. Go read back my statement. I said foreign companies. Not Foreign car companies.Any foreign company in any industry can or are unionized. I didn't say one industry in particular. I generalized.
2. Yup, my support for the protection of workers from the abuses of their employers, WHOMEVER THAT EMPLOYER MAY BE, does make me Pro Union.
3. What is wrong with that statement. It is true afterall. At least i have the guts to say it. The jewelry industry is hurting just as much as any other industry such as yours. But please do not give me your BS that we are all in this together and that we all care about each other's respective industries. Because we don't. We all think about ourselves and our families before we ever think about the other guy on the job.
And last but not least your last statement was mistyped. Here I'll correct if for you:
I AM A LYING, SELF-SERVING, POMPOUS, SIMPLE MINDED FOOL
Yes, you are indeed Retired One. Posted by CashCowMoo on :
what kind of cars do you like mach? and what kind of food do you enjoy?
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: That's because you have no sense of STYLE...
I have more style then you ever will Ole man... your stuck in another world... and if you say that about me because you hate my guts then that is sad... and I guess you are saying the same about every board member who likes Stangs too... so your not only trying to insult me but you are them as well which shows you have no manners, respect for anyone or much less class... Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: what kind of cars do you like mach? and what kind of food do you enjoy?
Cars? German mostly... and Italian... American cars? pretty much the same tastes as you excluding trucks...
Food? not sure why you ask that... but i like all kinds... but ironically enough I'm not crazy about Japanese food lol Trying to get a taste for it... I do have to admit I like Mediterrean food lately but that is more because of health issues then anything else but i do like the taste... but I also like seafood lately alot... swordfish, chilean sea bass, tilapia, shrimp etc. what about you?
Posted by retiredat49 on :
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli:
I AM A LYING, SELF-SERVING, POMPOUS, SIMPLE MINDED FOOL
Finally...we agree on something...
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49:
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli:
I AM A LYING, SELF-SERVING, POMPOUS, SIMPLE MINDED FOOL
Finally...we agree on something...
Actually I was helping you with your own description.... you put YOU by mistake instead of I AM in your own post... but yes we do agree on something and that is your own description of yourself... Posted by CashCowMoo on :
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli:
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: what kind of cars do you like mach? and what kind of food do you enjoy?
Cars? German mostly... and Italian... American cars? pretty much the same tastes as you excluding trucks...
Food? not sure why you ask that... but i like all kinds... but ironically enough I'm not crazy about Japanese food lol Trying to get a taste for it... I do have to admit I like Mediterrean food lately but that is more because of health issues then anything else but i do like the taste... but I also like seafood lately alot... swordfish, chilean sea bass, tilapia, shrimp etc. what about you?
Ok, I was just making sure you werent a vegan. Sometimes you can tell a few of a man's styles in real life from his favorite plates.
I have never had swordfish, I would try it though. Tilapia is always good. I like lobster tail and crab legs the most for seafood.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: Ok, I was just making sure you werent a vegan. Sometimes you can tell a few of a man's styles in real life from his favorite plates.
I have never had swordfish, I would try it though. Tilapia is always good. I like lobster tail and crab legs the most for seafood.
We'll I can eat meat as much anymore because of health problem as well as anything fattening.
But you must have swordfish as well as Chilean Sea Bass. Brazini is another great fish imo. I would definetly take crab legs over lobster any day. Lobster is ok once in awhile for me but i never got crazy about it. But crab... yummmmmm
The only thing that bothers me is the farm raised variety over the wild caught variety. Imo the Farm raised lacks something in their taste that does not compete with the wild caught one. Like Salmon and Catfish for example.
Posted by retiredat49 on :
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli:
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49:
quote:Originally posted by Machiavelli:
I AM A LYING, SELF-SERVING, POMPOUS, SIMPLE MINDED FOOL
Finally...we agree on something...
Actually I was helping you with your own description.... you put YOU by mistake instead of I AM in your own post... but yes we do agree on something and that is your own description of yourself...
There is just no pleasin you is there Mach?
We finally agree on something and you wanna argue about that too...
OK...I'll be the bigger man...
You're right...I'm wrong
You're smart...I'm stupid
You're everything...I'm nothing
You're gonna work until your 70...I'm retired at 49
You're going to continue to post lies here...I'm going to ignore you from now on
And yes...you get to have the last word...
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: There is just no pleasin you is there Mach?
Odd was just thinking the same thing about you.
quote:We finally agree on something and you wanna argue about that too...
I didn't argue with you. I agreed with you, that you were those things you posted in capital letters.
quote:OK...I'll be the bigger man...
You're right...I'm wrong
You're smart...I'm stupid
You're everything...I'm nothing
Wow, more things we agree on.
quote:You're gonna work until your 70...I'm retired at 49
Oh, I'll be retired before 40. I'm 37 right now.
quote:You're going to continue to post lies here...I'm going to ignore you from now on
Oh I heard that before and so has everyone else here. Now whose the liar?
quote:And yes...you get to have the last word...
Why thank you. For once you show you can be a gentleman. But only once. Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: I would take the Camaro over the Stang...Fords designs never have got me all hot & bothered...
Ford makes excellent products and I wouldn't hesitate to buy one even though I worked for GM...they just never did anything for me stylewise...
Same with trucks, both excellent vehicles...just don't like the "looks" of a Ford...
aw comeon...
it's Steve McQueen V Burt Reynolds, Bullit or Bandit.
the Stang had alot of looks, but the 69 Boss is IMO the best looking peice of mass production ever done.
i think they looked even better than the Cobra, which wasn't real mass production
i admit camaros and T/A's came in some nice packaging too, but when i saw the first mustard yellow 302 boss in the showroom? i was hooked for life
Posted by glassman on :
as for fish?
anybody who likes fish has to try wahoo and mahi mahi.
wahoo will be served at a few restaurants that have mahi mahi but it won't be on the menu. ASK for it and see. they only catch wahoo on hook and line and there's usually only one caught for every fifty mahi mahi. it'll cost a little more but it's much better.
a wahoo looks like a barracuda on steroids, or a marlin without the extra fins and big friggin teeth (marlins don't have the shredders)
also? try cobia if you get a chance. it's a white meat fish with a unique flavor all it's own very good, but it's usually fried... the only fried fish i like i tempura style.
here in MS everywhere i go they serve catfish and corn bread, corn fed catfish no less it hardly even tastes like fish
Japanese grilled mackeral is an awesome treat. Mackeral is a very fishy tasting fish with alotof oil, and when it's grilled properly on the hibachi it fries in it's own juices...
when i go to a good sushi bar i always order the chefs choice.
Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: as for fish?
anybody who likes fish has to try wahoo and mahi mahi.
wahoo will be served at a few restaurants that have mahi mahi but it won't be on the menu. ASK for it and see. they only catch wahoo on hook and line and there's usually only one caught for every fifty mahi mahi. it'll cost a little more but it's much better.
a wahoo looks like a barracuda on steroids, or a marlin without the extra fins and big friggin teeth (marlins don't have the shredders)
also? try cobia if you get a chance. it's a white meat fish with a unique flavor all it's own very good, but it's usually fried... the only fried fish i like i tempura style.
here in MS everywhere i go they serve catfish and corn bread, corn fed catfish no less it hardly even tastes like fish
Japanese grilled mackeral is an awesome treat. Mackeral is a very fishy tasting fish with alotof oil, and when it's grilled properly on the hibachi it fries in it's own juices...
when i go to a good sushi bar i always order the chefs choice.
I only like Wahoo if it's smoked. Mahi-Mahi(dolphin) is great fried, baked, or grilled. Mackeral is another one I prefer smoked. My favorite though is Grouper. There's a local place nearby that sell's it fried....awesome!! Very tasty.
Posted by glassman on :
yeah grouper is good too...
there is a peice of meat on the throat between the gills that tastes like buttered lobster if you cook it right.
ther really isn't much fish that i don't like, except corn fed, corn battered, and corn oil fried trout and catfish. (farm raised)
Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: yeah grouper is good too...
there is a peice of meat on the throat between the gills that tastes like buttered lobster if you cook it right.
ther really isn't much fish that i don't like, except corn fed, corn battered, and corn oil fried trout and catfish. (farm raised)
Are you talking about "grouper cheeks"? I saw it in the stores down south, but wasn't quite sure about it, so I didn't buy any. I'm not a big fan of cornmeal batter either.
PS: I have never really cared for catfish. They are fun to catch, but I don't really care to eat them.
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Quote Glassman:
"Japanese grilled mackeral is an awesome treat."
_________________________________________________
Thought the only thing you use them for is bait.
Sharks and other mackeral love them, super bloody.
Smoking maybe.
They catch them all the time in the summer months here, good fighting.
Never saw any for many years, but have been back for the last 4+ years, much smaller now.
Even though part of the tuna family a far reach from real tuna.
I use to smoke lots of salmon when living in the northwest. Also steel head are not to bad.
Even though i am not much of a fish eater, swordfish might be my favorite regular cooked fish.
Posted by retiredat49 on :
Lake perch lightly dusted pan fried...is hard to beat...
Fresh caught Chinook or Coho Salmon smoked, baked, grilled, or fried...all good
Walleye is another very tasty fish...
We even eat bluegill up here...sweet tasting and plentiful
Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: Lake perch lightly dusted pan fried...is hard to beat...
Fresh caught Chinook or Coho Salmon smoked, baked, grilled, or fried...all good
Walleye is another very tasty fish...
We even eat bluegill up here...sweet tasting and plentiful
Walleye is ok. Blue gill is great! They grow to about pan size in this area. Quite a few bones, but worth the effort IMO.
Posted by retiredat49 on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: I would take the Camaro over the Stang...Fords designs never have got me all hot & bothered...
Ford makes excellent products and I wouldn't hesitate to buy one even though I worked for GM...they just never did anything for me stylewise...
Same with trucks, both excellent vehicles...just don't like the "looks" of a Ford...
aw comeon...
it's Steve McQueen V Burt Reynolds, Bullit or Bandit.
the Stang had alot of looks, but the 69 Boss is IMO the best looking peice of mass production ever done.
i think they looked even better than the Cobra, which wasn't real mass production
i admit camaros and T/A's came in some nice packaging too, but when i saw the first mustard yellow 302 boss in the showroom? i was hooked for life
Now really look at this Camaro Glass...
How can you NOT think that this is the "BEST" looking car ever produced...
Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49:
quote:Originally posted by glassman:
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: I would take the Camaro over the Stang...Fords designs never have got me all hot & bothered...
Ford makes excellent products and I wouldn't hesitate to buy one even though I worked for GM...they just never did anything for me stylewise...
Same with trucks, both excellent vehicles...just don't like the "looks" of a Ford...
aw comeon...
it's Steve McQueen V Burt Reynolds, Bullit or Bandit.
the Stang had alot of looks, but the 69 Boss is IMO the best looking peice of mass production ever done.
i think they looked even better than the Cobra, which wasn't real mass production
i admit camaros and T/A's came in some nice packaging too, but when i saw the first mustard yellow 302 boss in the showroom? i was hooked for life
Now really look at this Camaro Glass...
How can you NOT think that this is the "BEST" looking car ever produced...
I love the design of the new Camaros! Beautiful car.
Posted by glassman on :
it's been along time since i ate bluegills, but yes they are worht the trouble.
we have no clean water to fish them out of or i would do it.
Thought the only thing you use them for is bait.
there are several kinds of mackeral.
i've caught alot of spanish on the east coast (up to ten pounds) and they are good almost any way i ever cooked them.
they are highly predacious, as are King mackeral (up to about 100 pounds) which are good to eat too..
the ones i caught on the west coast (of CA) seemed more like algae eaters than predators, they didn't have the same mouth but had the same skin...
i never caught any mackeral when i was in HI.. everything had way differnet names there, and some looked similar to east coast fish but were not the same.
i don't know what kind of mackeral i've eaten at the sushi bars on the west coat.
they are not big and are grilled whole on the hibachi. they are cooked to a crisp. it surprised me how good they are.
a Korean friend after learning that i like sushi, sent me to a sushi bar and told me told me tell the owner he sent me. i would never have ordered cooked fish at a sushi bar, but the owner ( a member of my friends Baptist Church) sent it to our table. after that i always ask for it.
Posted by retiredat49 on :
Finally...we have someone here other than myself with a sense of style...
Maybe you guys that prefer the stangs over the Camaro have never heard of glasses or contacts?
Posted by glassman on :
oh, and there's also a sashimi (the raw fish) that is called white tuna.
there are two kinds of white tuna one is albcore, and the other is not tuna at all -it's a mackeral- some call snake mackeral, however it's not THE Hawiaiian snake mackeral...
of course nobody would buy snake mackeral if that's what the menu says, so they call it white Tuna.
the snake mackeral is very oily
it's actually illegal to serve in Japan because it has a very powerful oils that cause some people severe stomach "disturbances" requiring a change of underwear
i've never had any problem with it, but i always make sure to only eat two or three peices, no more.
Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: Finally...we have someone here other than myself with a sense of style...
Maybe you guys that prefer the stangs over the Camaro have never heard of glasses or contacts?
Not to fawn over it too much....but c'mon...that is one awesome looking car. Wish I was currently in the market for a new car. Beautiful!
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
You know, for being a Ford guy....I got to admit that Camaro is SWEET. Its just too sexy.
Posted by Pagan on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: You know, for being a Ford guy....I got to admit that Camaro is SWEET. Its just too sexy.
Ya know...I hate to say it. But it looks like something Europeans would make. I'm glad the US is catching up design wise.
PS: I would love to drive that car!
PSS: The only bad part is I would ruin the front view. We are required to have license plate in front and back of the vehicle. Too bad.
Posted by retiredat49 on :
They used to require that here in MI too about 10 years ago...really pukes up the look of your ride...
Here's one more pic for you guys that evidently don't see so good...
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Here is the Volt info. There was that 2008 economic recover act that put a $7,500 tax credit into vehicles like this. Im sure there will be more benefits revealed soon.
For a non-sport vehicle I really like the Volt. Some places on the net have said that the sales for the 2011 Volt will roll out around November 2010. I called my local Chevy dealership and asked if they were taking orders yet (I assumed it was too early but I thought I would ask). They had said not yet, but they can still theoretically "take your order" whatever that means. The salesman said they did the same thing with the new Camaro a while back. It basically puts you in front of the line to get the first ones.
I think I will wait until I know more for sure before putting myself on that list.
Like the Camaro, the Volt is sexy..but not the little jelly bean type that the europeans are driving. Some of these mini cars are so small I could probably lift one up with my man strength. Hopefully what GM will do is keep the muscle and big body while making the vehicles more efficient.
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by retiredat49: P.S. I have already stated very clearly that I am biased...I am for America and Americans first & foremost...
One last word (and let's see if you keep your word of ignoring me lol)on this debate.
If you were for Americans then you would be for them getting employed no matter what, by whomever, whether domestic or foreign. But since you are not for them being employed by Foreign companies (in whatever industry) and rather they were unemployed whether you said it directly or implied then to me that is UnAmerican.
ok, back to your regularly scheduled program. Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: aw comeon...
it's Steve McQueen V Burt Reynolds, Bullit or Bandit.
the Stang had alot of looks, but the 69 Boss is IMO the best looking peice of mass production ever done.
i think they looked even better than the Cobra, which wasn't real mass production
i admit camaros and T/A's came in some nice packaging too, but when i saw the first mustard yellow 302 boss in the showroom? i was hooked for life
That is a sweet car and in black no doubt which is even better... I like the new Camaro designs and such but there is something about the classics over the new ones... Though I'm glad to see that the American ones are getting better in design exterior wise because to me american designs were/are boring and some models look the same as other models by the same companies... but they are improving in that regards...
the 1967 GT Shelby 500 is my fave i think though... my manager at my job has a AMX.. i forget year and such...
Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: oh, and there's also a sashimi (the raw fish) that is called white tuna.
there are two kinds of white tuna one is albcore, and the other is not tuna at all -it's a mackeral- some call snake mackeral, however it's not THE Hawiaiian snake mackeral...
of course nobody would buy snake mackeral if that's what the menu says, so they call it white Tuna.
the snake mackeral is very oily
it's actually illegal to serve in Japan because it has a very powerful oils that cause some people severe stomach "disturbances" requiring a change of underwear
i've never had any problem with it, but i always make sure to only eat two or three peices, no more.
Bluegills are a dime a dozen here in the NorthEast ponds so they bore me... I like Largemouth Bass of course and Walleye...
but as for ocean fish it would be swordfish and chilean sea bass... Mackerel is great as is Sardines... Mahi Mahi is great too... it's also caught in Costa Rica... alot of sportsfishing in CR Glass.. u should go someday... Marlin, Mahi Mahi etc. CR is known for it as well as surfing... For Tuna, Yellowfin is the most prized by the Japanese no? or is it Bluefin?
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
Quote Glassman:
"i've caught alot of spanish on the east coast (up to ten pounds) and they are good almost any way i ever cooked them."
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I am not sure what kind of mackeral they are catching these days, they are not much bigger than a good sized smelt.
We use to get those spanish mackeral and lots of bonita and baracuda and pletty of good size sharks following the schools.
Now they line up pretty much elbow to elbow on a few piers when they are catching mackeral.
They don't know the word courtesy any more, no room they just push there way in.
Wish we had the mackeral and bonita the size we use to catch off these same piers.
If we did, there would be 20 -30 lines tangled in a few seconds and a lot of pissed off fisherman, it might teach them a lesson, but i doubt it.
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Posted by Machiavelli on :
quote:Originally posted by IWISHIHAD: Quote Glassman:
"i've caught alot of spanish on the east coast (up to ten pounds) and they are good almost any way i ever cooked them."
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I am not sure what kind of mackeral they are catching these days, they are not much bigger than a good sized smelt.
I think alot of fish are labeled Mackerel that aren't Mackerel. This holds true for other species of fish as well. But anyways King Mackerel I think is the most popular. Here's more on them:
For Tuna, Yellowfin is the most prized by the Japanese no? or is it Bluefin?
giant bluefin is the most prized. when i lived in SE Va? i had a commercial hook an line license basically because i had friends who were restaunteurs that could pay my fuel bill for the 50 mile ride out to the gulf. i wasn't trying to make a living off it, just pay for my habit. that and i was one of the last people issued one directly, and i was able to sell it for a profit when i left the area.
i was alllowed to keep any tuna but the giant bluefin. it sucked cuz they were bringing 5 to 20 grand per fish at the time. the italians and a couple of outfits in New England were still able to take 'em but we were prohibited off the Carolina coast.
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For once your not Mooing... but as for Hyundai I haven't heard anything truely bad about them... never owned/leased one but was planning on taking my aunt to go look at some since she is in market to buy a car...
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