I think the DWE, Griffin, etc..syndrome has taken affect...some of you guys know what I mean...
hey ..whats happened to Purl?
Posted by bdgee on :
I was thinking the very same thing.
And ain't it funny how they are always doing and saying pretty much the same stuff, attacking the same people and ideas (that is, any that aren't from their own egocentric setting), but blaming it on strangely different causes and claiming it will reap far different weirdly idealistic goals that have no setting in reality.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
Here is something funny, Democrat Senator from Chicago Roland Burris committing perjury after blagos whole ordeal. What a mess...
Something you may find funny, but I find shocking is this SOOOOOO IMPORTANT spending bill was not read by Obama. Obama should have spent last weekend reading the whole thing before signing it if he truly cared about the bill, what was in it, and what it will do.
It isnt stimulus it is all pork and pet projects! Can anyone here really say it isnt?
Posted by Propertymanager on :
I don't think that's fair CCM. President Obama's sweeping tax reform is going to give the average worker an additional $13 per week. You could make a nice car or truck payment with that money - if you're buying a TONKA! Or, you could save for two weeks and have a pizza! LOL!
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
The funny thing is that Democrats are going to lose in the House next elections.
Stimulus round 2 coming? MORE TARP? More money being thrown at the problem....yeah they are digging their graves.
Posted by Pagan on :
ROTFLMAO!! You two really are dumb and dumber. And moocow, still waiting for you to post a negative GOP article, as you previously said you post both. Not seen a single negative GOP post from you yet. Still waiting. Also, what is your economic recovery plan? You complain of the Dems of throwing money at it, that's whats needed! Couple of fools with no clue about anything.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: The funny thing is that Democrats are going to lose in the House next elections.
Stimulus round 2 coming? MORE TARP? More money being thrown at the problem....yeah they are digging their graves.
which states will they lose?
i would love to see that house go GOP...
but i don't see where the Dems are weak...
there's a few seats to gain in the deep south... very few.
all forecasts i've seen show Dem growth not shrinkage... even Fred Barnes is dejected about it.
Posted by Propertymanager on :
...and the really funny part has just been released. Deadbeats will have their mortgage payments decreased (on our dime) and then they will get a $1,000 incentive each year if they keep their new lower payment current!!! GIVE ME A BREAK! Why should anyone continue to pay their mortgage?
It's time for a REVOLT by the honest, hard-working citizens that pay their bills! I hope someone organizes a revolt with honest people refusing to pay their mortgages!!!
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager: ...and the really funny part has just been released. Deadbeats will have their mortgage payments decreased (on our dime) and then they will get a $1,000 incentive each year if they keep their new lower payment current!!! GIVE ME A BREAK! Why should anyone continue to pay their mortgage?
It's time for a REVOLT by the honest, hard-working citizens that pay their bills! I hope someone organizes a revolt with honest people refusing to pay their mortgages!!!
why don't YOU organise it if it's so important to you? you're such a blow-hard.
your wealth will disappear with it too...
oh that's right, you don't have anything but cash flow... LOL... i got some little blue pills for you..
Posted by Propertymanager on :
How would Obama lowering my payment cause my wealth to disappear? I don't think you understand what wealth or cash flow are.
Wealth is basically net worth. In other words, it's the difference between the assets you own and the amount you owe.
Cash flow is what's left at the end of the month after paying the operating expenses and debt.
Hope that helps. Maybe a business class or two would help you also.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager: How would Obama lowering my payment cause my wealth to disappear? I don't think you understand what wealth or cash flow are.
Wealth is basically net worth. In other words, it's the difference between the assets you own and the amount you owe.
Cash flow is what's left at the end of the month after paying the operating expenses and debt.
Hope that helps. Maybe a business class or two would help you also.
i'm going to start calling you FM for flat man cuz you are two dimensional. just like the characters on the pages of the graphic novels.
the minute you stop making any payments you're whole game is over and you'll be renting in 6 months too, just like the people you loathe.
you want to demonise anybody but the real perps.
the bankers are in control.. they were during the Revolution in 1776 and they are today. get over it. keep your nose to the grindstone, your head down and quit whining like a baby.
the Founders Revolted on the motto No Taxationwithout representation Posted by Propertymanager on :
quote:the minute you stop making any payments you're whole game is over and you'll be renting in 6 months too, just like the people you loathe.
Untrue. The Messiah (Obama) will come to my rescue; write down my principal (although it's less than half the value of the house); and cut my interest rate. Then, he'll pay me $1,000 per year to keep my mortgage current.
quote:the Founders Revolted on the motto No Taxationwithout representation
The new motto is: No Taxation to Support Deadbeats!
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager: Then, he'll pay me $1,000 per year to keep my mortgage current.
no he won't, he'll pay the BANKERS 1000$ to loan you the money.. not you..
you don't even know what you're talking about. you represent the failure of conservatism
Posted by bdgee on :
"The new motto is: No Taxation to Support Deadbeats!"
But why would you toot that horn?
Are you still too dense to see that you are the ultimate deadbeat, sucking on the government tit and calling it conservative, because you claim to be only leaching off the ones that collect it directly from the government?
Your whole business is government subsidized. Remove the government subsidies and your claim to independence dies with it.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: "The new motto is: No Taxation to Support Deadbeats!"
But why would you toot that horn?
Are you still too dense to see that you are the ultimate deadbeat, sucking on the government tit and calling it conservative, because you claim to be only leaching off the ones that collect it directly from the government?
Your whole business is government subsidized. Remove the government subsidies and your claim to independence dies with it.
don't show him the mirror bdgee, he can't see the mirror...
Posted by thinkmoney on :
Honestly, I am starting to think i better skip mortgage payments so I too can get relief otherwise I will be working for those that cant pay.
This is really SICK - Obama spendulus and now the housing --
It rewards BAD behavior ---
It is unfair to those that made good decisions and work hard to pay mortgage -
I remember reading these give aways for bad behavior will actually encourage millions to skip mortgages, etc.. so they to can qualify- and, the conclusion was it will bankrupt america cause no one will want to work --
Why should I work for those that dont?
It is a tragedy and all Obam's policies are moving so fast and before we know it - socialism and a big welfare state in this country with not many willing to work --
What a mess and YES - Obama is making stuff worse-
HIs rhetporic sounds good but how can he sleep at night by having such a prok bill when the country was in dire need of real stimulus??
Posted by thinkmoney on :
You know in hard times, folks should spend less and get by with all their OWN resources - You make due and the human spirit is motivated to find a way out---but when you say govt will take care of it then you have millions and millions and millions of folks who will go to the GOVT vs using their own ability ---
I ask, who is going to pay for it? Why is it that OBAMA is so lost he cant use common sense? I mean who gave him the right to create a welfare state? Americans better wake up!
I was willing to give him a chance but now,I feel he is all rhetoric and has a huge ego and very insecure. He always is so GLOOM and negative - and says I will fix- ONLY the govt can - What BS! Why cant more folks see it?
Big GOVT is not the answer and this isnt freedom!
Posted by glassman on :
what real stimulus would you suggest?
cutting taxes is the only other suggestion i've heard, and that gets added to the debt too...
i hope the GOP does get the House next election...
i don't like having one party run things...
it would stop alot of this complaining too.
fact is? the banks made this mess, and they are the only ones that can fix it.
ANYBODY who doesn't think Obama is listening to the bankers to figure out what to do is delusional.
Posted by thinkmoney on :
I support tax cuts and spending bulk of the funds into infrastruture and energy and cut all the pork projects -- 500B is more than enuff--
1. Public education should not be funded by the federal govt - More money is not the answer to education's problem - It is the parents who are not there for their kids that is the core of the problem- Many parents expect govt to be the answer because they are not parenting - or simply are not present for thier kids- Schools will never fix that nor should they - Folks must take responsibility for their lives vs expecting GOVT to be the solution-- If you have a child that is poor and parent that child with love and have only books , you can educate that child well- I know cause I didnt have much growing up but obtained my masters because my parents valued education as a way of economic mobility. Plus, I have kids and one complaint is they are not being challenged enuff---Time is give mostly to the average and under achievers-
2. I would exclude aid to states to balance budgets - It encourages BAD behavior - States must balance budget or cut services else there are dire consequences and the politicians would be voted out--
When this economy started to falter, we paid off most our debt by sacrificing - You dont get into more debt to get out of a bad situation.
Govt is not the solution but private initiative - Govt sole purpose is defense not welfare state for the folks-
It is ideology but when folks dont have much and dont know better, all expect a handout-
What would I have done more?
1. For the housing crisis, I would have let rich foreigners who wanted citizenship buy residential homes as a requirement of being able to come to this country - They would have to occupy the house --This would create demand for the excess inventory - Many folks throughout the world would love to come and be american citizens-
2. For the credit/banking crises - I would off let the banks fail and help the good banks absorb- I would set up a task force and prosecuted those responsible by jail time and retribution- It is foolhardy to give good money after bad cause more will be toxic- Yes, there would of been pain but we would survived and been alot stronger -
3.I would be inspirational - practical yes - but negativty does not inspire but self propagates--- Whatever you give attetion to multiplies---
This I and only GOVT has to go--It is not about Obama or the GOVT- It is 'WE'- We will get out because Yes we can.
4. I would encourge those rich americans who are more priviledged to spend more - I would encourage all americans to help each other- now, not force but simply encourage- Bush encouraged all to spend but debt is not the answer but those that can afford spending can help-
And, much more ---
Posted by Propertymanager on :
Excellent response TM!
In addition, I would NOT put money into entitlements. I would NOT put money into building schools. I wound NOT more money into teacher pay. I would NOT encourage welfare and essentially undo the Clinton era welfare reform.
I would only spend money on things that would create jobs starting this year! For example, the lefties continually complain about the environment and the righties (like me) always complain about sending $700 Billion to our enemies for oil. How about a massive program similar to the Pickens plan? How about building infrastructure to fuel trucks and autos with clean American natural gas? That would also help the auto industry. How about subsidizing wind? I'd rather do that than send that money overseas! Wouldn't that make both sides happy? How about providing a REAL (big) subsidy for hybrids. If there was a $10,000 subsidy, I'd buy a Prius TODAY! I could think of MANY things that would meet the objectives of the left AND the right! Of course, to make any of that a reality, you would need to cut through all the government nonsense (like environmental impact studies, etc).
Posted by glassman on :
i think i agree with most of what you said TM...
except the school thing, i send my kids to public schools and then i spend the extra time needed...
letting the banks fails would have cost US much more than bailing them out..
i'm not a big fan of bailouts. BUT, i have listened carefully to alot of the people that are supposed to be experts..
the experts all agree that collapse of the banks would have cost more than bailing them out..
even people for letting them collapse admit the end cost would be more..
they still argue we'd be stronger afterwards, but i see no evidence for that argument it is merely an opinion...
i will get no direct benefit that i see from the stimulus or the mortgage bailout either..
i'm just not mad at the same people...
i will hopefully benefit by having a few more customers...
Posted by bdgee on :
Looks like thinkmoney is refusing to look in the mirror too.
Freemarketism failed again, just like it did when they called it trickle down economics and whatever name they tagged onto the idea that you make the stock markets and banks look good and that cures all the ills of society.
A government is not a device solely ward off invasion and to protect the economy, first last, and always. A government has way more responsibilities than that and directing all of a government's authority to only military might and tending the wealth of the well healed has once again been shown to fail the people.
To once again play the tune of freemarketism will not free us from the ills that faulty philosophy has forced on the world, it will only make those ills lodge deeper in the lungs of society.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager: Excellent response TM!
In addition, I would NOT put money into entitlements. I would NOT put money into building schools. I wound NOT more money into teacher pay. I would NOT encourage welfare and essentially undo the Clinton era welfare reform.
I would only spend money on things that would create jobs starting this year! For example, the lefties continually complain about the environment and the righties (like me) always complain about sending $700 Billion to our enemies for oil. How about a massive program similar to the Pickens plan? How about building infrastructure to fuel trucks and autos with clean American natural gas? That would also help the auto industry. How about subsidizing wind? I'd rather do that than send that money overseas! Wouldn't that make both sides happy? How about providing a REAL (big) subsidy for hybrids. If there was a $10,000 subsidy, I'd buy a Prius TODAY! I could think of MANY things that would meet the objectives of the left AND the right! Of course, to make any of that a reality, you would need to cut through all the government nonsense (like environmental impact studies, etc).
of course you don't want people educated they make you feel bad when they know more than you...
and we don't spend 700 billion on oil to our enemies...
our number one oil import comes from Canada.. they may be YOUR enemy..
number two is Mexico..
Posted by thinkmoney on :
Glass - I guess it boils down to principle and ideology-- And, keep in mind, it is the experts that failed this country so I doubt I would listen to them totally -
No system is perfect but throwing good monmey into bad is toxic. Schools s/b funded by the states as is - Like I said, the core issue of kids failing are the parents and secondarily because there is no foundation for ethical behavior in schools anymore - but, that is another discussion --
So many say, it would cost more not to bail but that is theoretical and as possibly is my position - but then you have to live by principle and common sense. When you have hardship , do you demand govt take care of you or do you do ewhat it atakes for your family? Govt cant take care of us all --someone has to work and when there is a welfare state motivation of the human spirit killed--
Capitalism works by letting those fail that should-
When times are tough, folks have to scale back and be frugal but what is happening is govt handouts of money we dont have--
We may get a temporary spike from all of this but there is now no moral behavior to do good because if I do I pay the consequence. I better mess up cause then I will have others' pay for my mistakes--that is scary- I would say close to revolution or civil war-- Like I say, I want my mortgate lessened to - and who is Obama to decide what class gets this benefit while the others have to work harder for it?
Also, for the first time in our history we may see runaway inflation and fiefdom to China --that is a far worse scenario then to have those that wronged fail- There were many more that did it right but now I am concerned that those that failed will bring all down because we are not letting them fail. Instead, we are letting them pollute the entire system by giving good money to bad.
Posted by thinkmoney on :
PM -I agree with most what you say but it is not leftie or conservative - it is what is better for america to me --
Posted by glassman on :
When you have hardship , do you demand govt take care of you or do you do ewhat it atakes for your family?
i have been thru hardships tho not nearly as bad as many today.
no govt bailouts here.
Capitalism works by letting those fail that should-
my perception about all of this risk that was taken is that it happened because the "experts" beleived they would be bailed out.
they never expected it, but they knew they were "too big to fail" and they never really worried.
when you get right down to it? people (in general) demanded big gains, and so big risk was taken by overall consensus..
look at how many new hedge funds we got in the last ten years...
i would agree with you about letting those that fail should, except for one thing, they take down everybody else with them.
i have very low debt, can easily afford my home and have not borrowed one penny to build my business. yet i must have customers for my business to survive. if it doesn't? i am still covered. i practice considerable personal conservatism. my biggest argument with the "new conservatives" is that they are not conservative by my definition, or any definition i have ever heard of.. they simply call themselves such.
Posted by thinkmoney on :
The risk taken was criminal --- It was not their money to use for personal gain at the expense of the folks- that is why I say let them fail and prosecute for jail and retribution-
That is the argument used - " If we let them fail, they will take down all". I refuse to buy into that. Let them fail and we will survive but this massive spending may collapse the economy. First a spike then a collapse. And, who are we to enslave our country for our children?
If we let them fail, those that did it right would get stronger and many folks would use their ingenuity to step in where the banks failed us....It would be painful but it would work out. In this time of hardship, all would have to do what it takes to survive and grow this country back. Personal responsibility is creative but govt handouts kills the creative spirit.
Posted by bdgee on :
"I refuse to buy into that."
But what if you are wrong? You'd place your preferences ahead of the studied opinions of the world's experts and, if they are correct, we who did not participate in the first place die. Those are your PREFERENCES, not some law.
No thanks, I don't believe you have that kind of credibility.
Posted by thinkmoney on :
I would love to see the stats at how many banks there are in the USA and those that are successful. I bet there are many more banks that did it right vs wrong and those banks should be supported. Like, I said, let the banks fail and let the good banks absorb the assets of the bad. This to can ensure financial stability--- and not put good money into toxic...
Posted by bdgee on :
"I bet there are many more banks that did it right vs wrong and those banks should be supported."
Again, you are insisting on a belief not a fact. Too, most of the non-giant banks in the Country are much like any other smaller business, they depend on a free and flexible marketplace to survive. They too, like a car dealer and a hardware store and a farmer must have access to a bigger guy to borrow money from from time to time in order to survive and the big banks are the ones that are not supplying money, to the people for cars, for home improvements, for restocking departments stores, and for restocking the coffers of the smaller banks who do the direct lending for Main Street.
By the way, the good banks are the ones that took the money from the Feds and used it to buy out other banks and have huge parties for their higher-ups instead of for freeing up the economy. The bad ones had already failed or were in the process and got bought out, along with a few that weren't bad and just got caught up in the flow.
Posted by Propertymanager on :
quote:You'd place your preferences ahead of the studied opinions of the world's experts
What experts? The FED presided over and indeed caused the real estate bubble? Barney Frank promoted "homeownership" and pressured Freddie and Fannie to make loans to people who weren't creditworthy. Geitner presided over the 1st failed bailout and delivered the latest bailout without any details. They're all incompetent. I'd take ThinkMoney and a little common sense over these government idiots any day!
Posted by bdgee on :
PM, if an honest to God sent down from Heaven real expert stood right in front of you, you couldn't see him. You are too racked in a belief in myth from life time of fictitious right-wing propaganda and bull sh-t to open your eyes.
Go fly a kite!
Posted by thinkmoney on :
That is my point - the experts stole our money and brought america to the knees and then they beg for more?? They want us to believe that without them america would be worse- It is so idiotic to think that those that are responsible for the mess have any merit to make things better.
I dont trust them - I rather do business with a community banker any day vs Citi, etc...
Posted by bdgee on :
I don't trust them either. think...
That is why I want the democrats to put some serious oversight and restrictions on them, not the bull sh-t that the republicans are still insisting on. This damned idiotic crap that tax cuts are what is good for the economy is nonsense and really nothing but a way the republicans have siphoned the treasury into the pockets of their own.
Something has to be done, not just for us, but for the whole world. And following the lead of the republican mantra is what got us here. Those weren't experts, those were crooked politicians.
Posted by Lockman on :
quote:Originally posted by Pagan: ROTFLMAO!! You two really are dumb and dumber. And moocow, still waiting for you to post a negative GOP article, as you previously said you post both. Not seen a single negative GOP post from you yet. Still waiting. Also, what is your economic recovery plan? You complain of the Dems of throwing money at it, that's whats needed! Couple of fools with no clue about anything.
Have you ever made anything but a negative GOP comment? People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
Posted by jordanreed on :
let me do it!!..please?..something positive about the gop..
its a great party..they've done a wonderful job with plenty of politicians I can look up to for guidance..
a great foil for the liberal, wacko, lefties.( I guess I'm one)..
the gop provides plenty of yuks..
pms is a great example of this...look at the fodder he has provided us..an unrelenting,egotistical, nutjob...what more could ya want?...its like the freak show at the circus.
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by Lockman:
quote:Originally posted by Pagan: ROTFLMAO!! You two really are dumb and dumber. And moocow, still waiting for you to post a negative GOP article, as you previously said you post both. Not seen a single negative GOP post from you yet. Still waiting. Also, what is your economic recovery plan? You complain of the Dems of throwing money at it, that's whats needed! Couple of fools with no clue about anything.
Have you ever made anything but a negative GOP comment? People who live in glass houses should not throw stones.
Let's face it, lock..., after what the GOP has done to the whole world over the last few decades, where is there any non-negative aspect of the GOP on which to comment?
This world is in dire straights and that was caused directly the GOP.
Your query of Pagan does bring to mind an equivalent one. Do you ever make a non-negative comment about anything political and non-republican Party sanctioned?
If you do it is very very seldom and if you have, it isn't obvious. Your negative comments about anything democratic stick out like the proverbial sore thumb, though.
Posted by Propertymanager on :
Let's face it, bdgee..., after what the socialists have done to the whole world over the last few decades, where is there any non-negative aspect of the socialists on which to comment?
This world is in dire straights and that was caused directly the socialists.
Do you ever make a non-negative comment about anything political and non-democratic Party sanctioned?
If you do it is very very seldom and if you have, it isn't obvious. Your negative comments about anything republican stick out like the proverbial sore thumb, though.
LOLOLOL!!!
Posted by jordanreed on :
hey..knock it off!!!!!you're stealing my thread!
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager: Let's face it, bdgee..., after what the socialists have done to the whole world over the last few decades, where is there any non-negative aspect of the socialists on which to comment?
This world is in dire straights and that was caused directly the socialists.
Do you ever make a non-negative comment about anything political and non-democratic Party sanctioned?
If you do it is very very seldom and if you have, it isn't obvious. Your negative comments about anything republican stick out like the proverbial sore thumb, though.
LOLOLOL!!!
"Do you ever make a non-negative comment about anything political and non-democratic Party sanctioned? "
Indeed I do, but when this cadre of hate and insult that poses as today's republican party is in the picture, there is almost never anything positive to say.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
A picture is worth a 1,000 words, and in THIS case a picture is worth TRILLIONS of words!
Posted by glassman on :
that is funny...
and Dubya is jealous... he was there in '02 and he blew it.
Posted by thinkmoney on :
The GOP is not a great party and most lost their conservative ways. I hope we will get a conservative party in the future..
But, the democratic party has lost its way further - it is leftist and Obama is a scam--
I did say awhile back and still find true, Obama got elected because of Bush' dissatifaction but not pro-socialism/communism.
He is slammimg this country - further in the hole because of the extreme leftist ideology--
He was so eloquent but he has not done anything concrete - 1. He let Pelosi dictate the spendulus bill - mostly pork at a time the country needded real stimulus - dont get me wrong parts are stimulus but most pork - shame on Obama - no leadership there but simply caving in to those that got him elected- mostly the extremists and the bush haters - but the bush haters didnt want socialism - i think they will wake up-- the left will wake up when obama demands all hollywood should should share the wealth to the non-working---
2. His cabinet is a joke - his treasury sec. is a crook as he is - --most folks supported hitler due to emotional pain as is the case with obama-
3. I hope america wakes up before it is destroyed by Obama - his policies are tragic - spend -spend -spend - give from the workers to the non-workers--isnt that coomunism?? Far worse than socialism? I value my credit rating but in this reality of Obama - I may default on my mortgage so i can get help. I am a struggling homeowner and yet the govt is forcing me to help others that made bad decisions? I need help - I do what I can but now what I can is BAD and and the BAD get rewarded - so survival speaks - I too will be in line for govt help --
4. The markets are speaking - Obama may collapse the market but it wont be over- there could be revolution --
Now, I say may but Obama did get elected based on fear and his leadership is fear based. Hope, I am wrong but I think folks should think twice before supporting the socialistic/communism policies of Obama. All folks in my belief will accept handouts and want them but in the end the line will get too long- You cant take from the working and give to the non-working because in the end it is collapse--
Posted by bdgee on :
Patience, think....CRAP!
My God, man, he hasn't been in office but barely a month a couple of hours ago!
Posted by thinkmoney on :
Well, what he has done in a month is disastrous - like I said he is bringing the country further to socialism/communism but he didnt get elected for that. He got elected mostly because of Bush hate. And, folks need to wake upo before it is too late-- I have children and I wnat them to have an america-- Obama is not in support of america - not in my opinion -
Posted by jordanreed on :
now that is funny!!
Posted by bdgee on :
No, not doing what he is would be disastrous times ten.
Get off that whine about socialism/communism. It is absurd. First of all, there is absolutely no chance this country will ever be communistic and second, socialism is a fundamental part of government of any kind, provided that government intends top be here in years to come and without which it has no purpose.....no reason to function al all. that is the definition of government, an organization to act and make laws on behalf of the people.
Get serious, he got elected to do exactly what he is doing. He did not get elected to be a right-wing conservative, which is all you will accept.
Yeah, there was plenty of Bush hate, because the Nation hated that dubya refused to get off the far right-wing road to destruction of everything we cherish about America, and that includes all that pure bull sh-t about freemarketism, first, last, and always. Bush hate is absolute disgust with a fool that was selling out the Country to right-wing hatred and freemarketism and puting the funds in OUR treasury in his political buddies pocket.
Indeed! Hopefully, people have waked up before it is too late, they ran those pushing us to fascism via republican freemarket mantra out of power.
Your opinion is in a selfish, distinct, and very small minority and has been for a good while, think....
Get with the program. without it the nation is doomed. With it there is a chance.
Posted by thinkmoney on :
The nation needs to wake up! Obama got elected mostly due to Bush' hate not a free pass for socialism/communismn.
His proposals all are socialistic/comunistic. Take from the working and give to the non-working. If any right-minded person thinks the working will support the non-working is foolish. In nature, we work to take care of us and our family and if we are compassionate, we will help others'if we can-- But, if you force me to take from my family so I can help you survive, I will fight.
I already will play the game of survival - do what it takes in OBAMA land to get handouts- my point is- in the end, america will collapse--
Does anyone think that the working will work for the non-working as in communism? Obama is mostly taking from the working and giving to the non-working in the stimulus and then taking from the working and giving to the bad choices in the housing? And taking from the working middle class and giving to the elite banks for their greed,etc?
It is wrong and Americans better wake up!
Posted by glassman on :
Obama got elected mostly due to Bush' hate not a free pass for socialism/communismn.
and Bush got elected how?
i voted for Bush the first twice and Dubya once.
Posted by glassman on :
Obama is mostly taking from the working and giving to the non-working in the stimulus
not true.
he is mostly trying to make sure people who want to work can find work...
i agree with you about him allowing Pelosi to write the bill, but that's the way Washington works, do you want a dictator or an emperor? that's where Cheney would have had US.
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by thinkmoney: The nation needs to wake up! Obama got elected mostly due to Bush' hate not a free pass for socialism/communismn.
His proposals all are socialistic/comunistic. Take from the working and give to the non-working. If any right-minded person thinks the working will support the non-working is foolish. In nature, we work to take care of us and our family and if we are compassionate, we will help others'if we can-- But, if you force me to take from my family so I can help you survive, I will fight.
I already will play the game of survival - do what it takes in OBAMA land to get handouts- my point is- in the end, america will collapse--
Does anyone think that the working will work for the non-working as in communism? Obama is mostly taking from the working and giving to the non-working in the stimulus and then taking from the working and giving to the bad choices in the housing? And taking from the working middle class and giving to the elite banks for their greed,etc?
It is wrong and Americans better wake up!
I repeat. Your opinion is exactly that, an opinion. Everything you claim to be true is based on nothing more than faith in a religion like mantra that neo-conservatism is Godly and the world will be cast into the fires of hell if absolute capitalism isn't allowed to control the lives destinies of us all, individually and collectively.
I'm tired of being controlled by what you want. And I am in the majority. So take your religion of freemarketism and go off somewhere and start your own country, where you can dictate to someone there. Leave us alone.
Yes, we could fail, but it will be failure with honor and the freedom to believe in ourselves and not just to be ruled by the muckity-mucks of the financial marketplace....that's fascism you are wanting.
Posted by bdgee on :
"i agree with you about him allowing Pelosi to write the bill, but that's the way Washington works, do you want a dictator or an emperor? that's where Cheney would have had US."
Yes!
If you guys would read the Constitution it REQUIRES that a finance bill be originated in the House. It's the law!
Posted by glassman on :
His cabinet is a joke - his treasury sec. is a crook as he is - --most folks supported hitler due to emotional pain as is the case with obama-
uh? Hitler and Obama in the same sentence, interesting... i'll have to ponder it for a second... sorry, no compute.
the Tresaury Secretary is a crook! yes, you can't find a banker in America that isn't IMO... nature of the business...
we will see some form of conservatism return TM that is the nature of US politics.. the pendulum swings back and forth and all the professional politicians know this and count on it, however, it will not be anything like the "conservatism" we have today or have had for the last few years..
the "conservatism" we've had for the last few years is the reason we are in this mess.
i know alot of people try lay blame elsewere, but that's just politics.
the fact is? Bush started two wars and cut taxes... that was wrong not just economically but morally.
war is painful it doesn't matter if you are in the "right" or in the "wrong" war hurts, we all know this, it's just how things are. Bush tried to make it painless for his friends.. now we all pay for the tax cuts and the "SCHEMES" Bush laid down to pay for the wars instead of playing it straight.
Posted by thinkmoney on :
Hitler came to power because folks were hurting and emotionally weak, same with Obama- he came to power because of Bush' hate and not support of socialistic/commuism policies --
Yes, I do agree conservatism will returm, probally in the next 2 years in the house but it will be different- Bush was not a conservative - he was an elected official who harmed america - my point is Obama is trying to destroy america -he wants the working to take care of the non-working-
IMO, doubt it will happem. we are close to a market collapse - and this is Obama's doing -
americans still want to be free not chained by big govt --
Today, Obama rushed after closing bell to say, no nationaliztion - he had to cause market is not buying to his rehetoric as many americans have- if market crashes - it is only BIG govt- then revolution-
Posted by glassman on :
Today, Obama rushed after closing bell to say, no nationaliztion
BTW? they made the announcement well before the closing bell...
and it was to dispell rumors, how many rumors have you heard on the stock market?
Natioanalization of banks happens all the time. That's when they fail. The govt takes over, the shareholders are cut out, and your deposits are garanteed..
the people that run the markets made this mess. they are shaking this thing for all it's worht to get prices as low as they can.
fear and greed, it's always fear and greed...
IMO, doubt it will happem. we are close to a market collapse - and this is Obama's doing -
sorry TM that's really off the mark. we have been on the verge of collapse for months and the "conservatives" are the ones that did it then and if anybody is tanking it now? it's the conservatives who have a vested interest in seeing Obama fail...
if it "failed" tomorrow and you blamed Obam? that would be no different from blaming Bush for Clintons recession..
heck, i remember people blaming Clinton for 9-11 and that was 8 months after Bush took office..
if we fail and that is WE as a nation? it will be because the people are losers. not because of Bush or Obama.. are we losers?
Bush was not a real conservative? I spoke up and said that right here in 2004 and the "conservatives" called me a liar.
Posted by thinkmoney on :
Glass- do you like Obamas' spend and spend?
I dont understand why you defend the socialist, maybe communist- Take from the working and give to non-working or take from ability and give to need- same thing---
Bus harmed this country but Obama may destroy it - why are ya so pro obama?
Your neighbor has 4 bedrooms, an extra bathroom, took an arm and now he asks ya to pay for it? you who work and are struggling?
I am sorry but that is not my america---
The markets didnt crash under BUSH but they may under Obama ---Bush messed us up but Obama promised change - now, we have change - NOT change most americans want- and day by day more and more will revolt--
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by thinkmoney: Glass- do you like all o Obams' spend and spend?
I dont understand why you defen the socialist, maybe communist- Take from the working and give to non-working or take from ability and give to need- same thing---
Bus harmed this country but Obama may destroy it - why are ya so pro obama?
Your neighbor has 4 bedrooms, an extra bathroom, took an arm and now he asks ya to pay for it? you who work and are struggling?
I am sorry but that is not my america---
no, your america is where Haliburton gets a blank check to poison and electrocute our troops.
it's not a matter of supporting Obama or not.
and you are making it clear that you'd rather America fall apart and have revolution than do what we have to toget out of this mess we are in.
guess what? i'm ready for either. and i know how to rock-n-roll..
most of the wimps out there calling for a revolution are thesame people who were telling people to move to Canada after Bush won in '04...
don't just talk about this crap. do it. talk is cheap. and i'm tired of the whining
just keep in mind that after revolutions? the meansest nastiest SOB is in charge, it won't be Rush Limbugger, it'll be a General, probably one that has Special Forces training form day one.
there'll be no "democracy" it would be like Russia is right now.
you won't like it.
Posted by thinkmoney on :
I want to get out of this mess but what Obama is doing is pushing this country towards collapse --
And, more and more americans will see that and will not permit it- I hope --sorry but our country is based on freedom and I want my children to have freedom vs living in a socialistic, state controlled america--
Posted by glassman on :
well the damage was done long before this month.
you want a different political leader? recruit one that can get elected.
i expect Obama will screw up sooner or later, but so far? this ain't the kinda screwup i'm talking about
and it is definitley not Palin or Boehner...
Posted by glassman on :
when somebody gets cancer? they give them chemotherapy..
chemo is poison. it is controlled in it's dosage, but it is still poison.
think of this like that and pray.
Posted by bdgee on :
Better get used to it, think..., because what has happened in the last couple of elections, particularly with Obama, has already begun a systematic alteration of our whole outlook on what politics is for in our part of the world and, if the idiots yanking on the republican leash and wanting them to re-Reagan America don't learn to think beyond what they have done for the last 30 - 40 years, society won't be pleased at all and the republican party will die sooner rather than later.
Party leadership in the republican party is embarrassing and distasteful, because what that leadership is insisting on is their standard for years, STAY THE COURSE, when the people have learned that the course the republicans steered us on was disaster.
Posted by CashCowMoo on :
bdgee you are sooo sure the Republican Party will die...please. The Democratic part is destroying itself. Pork laden spending on a level never seen before. ANOTHER stimulus being talked about, the 275 BILLION dollar mortgage bailout AFTER the stimulus was passed...the Democrats are on a spending high.
Posted by T e x on :
quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: bdgee you are sooo sure the Republican Party will die...please. The Democratic part is destroying itself. Pork laden spending on a level never seen before. ANOTHER stimulus being talked about, the 275 BILLION dollar mortgage bailout AFTER the stimulus was passed...the Democrats are on a spending high.
Young man,
Straighten up, and take a deep breath. You need to compose yourself. Nobody worth listening to is saying the Democratic Party is a saviour.
But you simply *must* realize for your own sanity check that Bush & Company highjacked the GOP, and the party is beyond reeling and is laying out on the floor, waiting on the paddles to find an EKG line.
If you continue on the squirrelnut juice, you are going to hyperventilate and maybe burst a blood vessel...
Posted by bdgee on :
It just may be that two or three have already gone pop up there between the ears.
Temper, temper, temper, cow. Calm down, now....a deep breath or two.....
You need to wean off that right-wing talk radio stuff and get on a diet of solid and factual information and you'll fell better.
Posted by thinkmoney on :
This is a democracy and there are other, possibly, better cures for cancer other than chemo. Actually, in cancer nutrition is a better rememdy. Eat healthy and eliminate foods that are cancerous---You can even reverse/destroy cancer by eating healthy and having healthy lifestyle.
I think there are better solutions to the current mess. i.e. I dont think the GOVT should be the judge who gets money and who doesnt regarding housing and force all taxpayers to pay. I think a better idea would to to have something across the board for all homeowners, ie. 40 yr, 4 % morgage for all, etc...
Posted by T e x on :
quote:Originally posted by thinkmoney: This is a democracy and there are other, possibly, better cures for cancer other than chemo. Actually, in cancer nutrition is a better rememdy. Eat healthy and eliminate foods that are cancerous---You can even reverse/destroy cancer by eating healthy and having healthy lifestyle.
I think there are better solutions to the current mess. i.e. I dont think the GOVT should be the judge who gets money and who doesnt regarding housing and force all taxpayers to pay. I think a better idea would to to have something across the board for all homeowners, ie. 40 yr, 4 % morgage for all, etc...
well, you're part of the gummint--run that idea up the flagpole...
Posted by Propertymanager on :
quote:Party leadership in the republican party is embarrassing and distasteful, because what that leadership is insisting on is their standard for years, STAY THE COURSE, when the people have learned that the course the republicans steered us on was disaster.
Ironically, I agree with that 100%! The Republican party is a joke and should be dismantled. They have NO principles and will do anything to get elected. They've moved farther left than the democrats were only a few years ago. Bdgee is right, they are an embarrassment and have destroyed the party.
I am grateful that the democrats are in charge of the entire government. This way, they will receive all the credit if they turn things around and all the blame if the country collapses. The problem for the democrats (socialists) is that this wreckless spending ($10.8 trillion committed so far) is accelerating the date of our destruction. None of the things we have experienced so far (subprime, banking problems, etc) are even a fraction of the real problem, which is that we've promised more money in entitlements than we can deliver. Borrowing trillions more is only making things worse - A LOT WORSE!
The party is over and I'm hoping that a conservative movement will rise from the ashes to put this country on the right path.
Posted by wallymac on :
PM: all you seem to harp on is entitlements. Social Security and Medicare would be fine if it weren't for the fact that they were raided by both parties. The real reason we are in the dire straits we are in, is that the free market was let to go untethered and greed took over.
I don't think anyone really knows how to fix it. Your solution of letting the markets fail and rebuilding isn't any better than throwing money at the problem. Yet something has to be done. It's going to be trial and error until something works or doesn't.
The real need is for these elected officials to begin doing what they should have been doing all along and that is to do what is best for the COUNTRY not them individually to get re-elected or hold party lines.
Posted by Propertymanager on :
quote:PM: all you seem to harp on is entitlements.
That's because excess spending, especially entitlement spending, is the problem.
quote:I don't think anyone really knows how to fix it. Your solution of letting the markets fail and rebuilding isn't any better than throwing money at the problem. Yet something has to be done. It's going to be trial and error until something works or doesn't.
Actually, my solution IS a lot better, because it doesn't saddle us with trillions of dollars of additional debt that must be repaid (one way or the other). That makes my solution a lot less painful than the spend-a-thon alternative.
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager:
quote:Party leadership in the republican party is embarrassing and distasteful, because what that leadership is insisting on is their standard for years, STAY THE COURSE, when the people have learned that the course the republicans steered us on was disaster.
Ironically, I agree with that 100%! The Republican party is a joke and should be dismantled. They have NO principles and will do anything to get elected. They've moved farther left than the democrats were only a few years ago. Bdgee is right, they are an embarrassment and have destroyed the party.
I am grateful that the democrats are in charge of the entire government. This way, they will receive all the credit if they turn things around and all the blame if the country collapses. The problem for the democrats (socialists) is that this wreckless spending ($10.8 trillion committed so far) is accelerating the date of our destruction. None of the things we have experienced so far (subprime, banking problems, etc) are even a fraction of the real problem, which is that we've promised more money in entitlements than we can deliver. Borrowing trillions more is only making things worse - A LOT WORSE!
The party is over and I'm hoping that a conservative movement will rise from the ashes to put this country on the right path.
"I agree with that 100%!"
My God, I must have bungled up the language something fierce!
"The party is over and I'm hoping that a conservative movement will rise from the ashes to put this country on the right path."
That being the case, one thing is for certain. Those in charge of that movement will distance themselves from you and all the rest of the embarrassing mindless extremist and religious fanatics that have left them a laughing stock over the world by marching to the piping of Fat Rush's flute and to the chorus of the rest of his far right-wing obstructionist Party first ilk. The whole world is ashamed yaw'll can't at least act civil and honorably.
[ February 21, 2009, 09:59: Message edited by: bdgee ]
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Propertymanager:
Actually, my solution IS a lot better, because it doesn't saddle us with trillions of dollars of additional debt that must be repaid (one way or the other). That makes my solution a lot less painful than the spend-a-thon alternative. [/QUOTE]
the only reason you think your solution is better is ignorance.
the government is contractually obligated to cover the loss of all members of the FDIC...
i'm surprised that you even claim to be in business. you have no clear idea what a contractual obligation means. Who tightened up the bankruptcy laws for individuals? the "conservatives"... yet the "conservatives' are proposing corporate bankruptcy as a "quick fix" for the mess they made. don't you see the severe hypocrisy in this?
and the Taxpayer eats the bankruptcy costs ANYWAY... those costs are way beyond anything in the stimulus plans.
your "idea" is half baked. put it back in the oven for awhile longer and try again....
when it is done? stick a fork in it and see if it comes out clean Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Wow!
I wish I had been paying more attention to this thread. I missed a lot of good debate.
ThinkMoney, you've put some thought into your responses. Thank you. I disagree with you wholeheartedly but you had some reasoning behind your posts. I appreciate that.
Glass,
I finally understand why you say the bailout was necessary. I still think it was done in a very poor way and I hate the subterfuge that was used to get it approved and available. Hopefully the 350 Billion TARP that is out so far along with the unlimited Fed Reserve short term loans have been enough to start unweaving the 62 Trillion dollar CDS web of destruction that these idiots created. No wonder everything is too big to fail suddenly. It's all been insured to death and back. One piece falls and it starts a chain reaction that would blow out every medium to large sized financial institution in the country.
To think that the amounts underwritten in these swaps is equal to more than 4 full years of the USA's GDP...insane!
Where is MacGyver when you need him most?
Posted by Lockman on :
quote:Originally posted by wallymac: PM: all you seem to harp on is entitlements. Social Security and Medicare would be fine if it weren't for the fact that they were raided by both parties. The real reason we are in the dire straits we are in, is that the free market was let to go untethered and greed took over.
I don't think anyone really knows how to fix it. Your solution of letting the markets fail and rebuilding isn't any better than throwing money at the problem. Yet something has to be done. It's going to be trial and error until something works or doesn't.
The real need is for these elected officials to begin doing what they should have been doing all along and that is to do what is best for the COUNTRY not them individually to get re-elected or hold party lines.
And what's best for our country is for politicians to stop making decisions about things they have no expertise in.
We also need term limits on congress. Voting a moron into office repeatedly because we don't want our elected offical to lose his senority is the real shame. Voters that do the right thing and remove a bad politician are penalized by a senority system.
Posted by bdgee on :
I find it amazing that someone with no "expertise" in anything at all should expect that their opinion about the "expertise" of politicians and the judgments of those politicians should be considered as anything but blarney and egotistical wind.
Hypocrisy maybe???
And then on top of that, you want to replace those politicos without sufficient "expertise" and experience with new ones with out even that amount of "expertise" and experience. There surely seems to be a problem with your proposed "solution" in that following it only increases the problem you say it would cure.
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Jiminy Lock,
Why do you think we pay these guys if it isn't to make decisions? They listen to 'experts' all day long. I do agree with you on term limits but seniority exists whether you say it does or not. It's just a natural thing that happens and is insisted upon. Better to have it out in the open where people can see it than have it under the table.
Posted by glassman on :
And what's best for our country is for politicians to stop making decisions about things they have no expertise in.
that would lead to a meritocracy.
sounds good on the surface, but most "conservatives" don't think much of the "liberal" educated.
Our education plan allows us to make further gains in the suburbs. It will also allow us to make gains with Hispanics and African-Americans. As people do better, they start voting like Republicans -- unless they have too much education and vote Democratic, which proves there can be too much of a good thing.
Karl Rove, quoted in the "Daily Texan," March 19, 2001
how do you determine who is an "expert"? only the experts can decide who is an expert .
sorry
Posted by wallymac on :
There are experts on both sides of the debate. So who is right and who is wrong? Maybe just maybe the answer lies somewhere in between. The experts in most fields want nothing to do with elected office, too little money and no privacy. Therefore we are left with electing those who are willing to run. They have staff that do the research and make recommendations usually based on what the experts say.
As far as term limits? IMO, that is anti-democratic. Why should the people not be able to elect whoever they want? We already have term limits, they are called elections. We may not agree with who gets elected but the fact is that the people do elect them. If we the people don't like what they are doing then we shouldn't vote for them.
The problem is not how long someone serves, in fact if a business was run where the business plan did a 180 every 4 yrs or so I'm sure it would not be very successful. Business plans in business change when they become ineffective and usually happen gradually not full scale in with the new and out with the old.
The problems in government come when we are ruled by either extreme, be it Left or Right, because they are inflexible. Open mindedness to ideas other than adherence to the part line would be much more effective.
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