Interesting that they sue an American offical and yet say nothing about religious clans in Iraq that stone young women to death for kissing a man in public. Now that's torture.
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
Perhaps Lockman,
But they are neither American citizens nor subject to America's laws.
Posted by glassman on :
even Rudy Giulianni, when pressed, admitted that what the media has been describing is torture... the only reason the admin got away with this so far is that the congress has backed them. and i see no changes in congress yet either.
Posted by Lockman on :
So what's the end result of a suit of this type. Maybe Rumsfeld can't go to France anymore.
Posted by glassman on :
i dunno what happens to rumsfeld,
what i do know is that the US has been severely crippled diplomatically. sure, we still have plenty of power, but this iran crap isn't looking good, and the end result of that will be 150$/barrel oil..
Putin is loving it.
Posted by Lockman on :
Short term we'll pay dearly but there's nothing like financil pressure to get a new oil refinery plant built and some drilling permits for those out of the way spots.
Posted by glassman on :
here's how i see the torture issue:
sometimes? you have to do what you have to do.
somebody in the business knows they have the right person or cell? and they are on a short time frame.
they do what they have to do and they take the consequences. hopefully they don't even get caught and; the info is worth the price if they do.
BUT?
when an administration sets up a policy of wholesale torture? that's not good.
furthermore? abu-ghraib was about "finding WMD" that didn't exist, and was one of the main reasons the situation in iraq went to hell in a bucket.. you can look at a chart of the US casualties and see they started spiking right after word got out of the prison.
Posted by glassman on :
as for oil prices and diplomacy? i think we are on a knifes edge right now.
Turkey is fed up with US and ready to light the fuse.
Iran is just doing as they please and all the "diplomacy" from Bush is a joke to them..
Putin is sitting on top of his newly found billions and keeps adding pressure wherever he can..
face it, Bush's foreign policy is/has been a black hole for our economy.
Posted by Lockman on :
Ya I quess torture should be done in the back room or behind the wood pile. Most police stations practice some sort of torture everyday. Your right Bush and the boys F'ed this up pretty good, but you know what? The next major terror attack on the U.S. and most people will be demanding action and answers and won't much care how our officals get it.
Posted by glassman on :
answers and won't much care how our officals get it.
the sad truth to this is that the terrorists win, and freedom loses..
the terrorists don't care if they kill US, or not, as long as they destroy freedom...
Posted by bdgee on :
"....next major terror attack on the U.S. and..."
Are you really so restricted and ignorant that all you can muster is a scheme of retaliation for schemes of retaliation?
Like it isn't a result of the absolute arrogance and hostility that U.S. policies have put forth in the first place?
My God, isn't it more than obvious that what we've been doing isn't working and we need to change something instead of tooting the horn in favor of the atrocities of Great Prevaricator and his bunch of Nazi sympathizers?
Maybe a little creative approach is in order?
What about developing a foreign policy that isn't designed and destined to p--- off (and scare) every nation, religion, and sect in the world and see if that doesn't stop attacks on the U.S. (A scared cornered dove, as well as a scared cornered rat, will fight like the very devil to save itself. Hell, I would too.)
Posted by Lockman on :
What about developing a foreign policy that isn't designed and destined to p--- off (and scare) every nation, religion, and sect in the world and see if that doesn't stop attacks on the U.S.
What's your plan?
Posted by Lockman on :
"....next major terror attack on the U.S. and..."
Are you really so restricted and ignorant that all you can muster is a scheme of retaliation for schemes of retaliation?
I'm just stating the obvious or don't you think the U.S. will be attacked again no matter who the next President is?
Posted by glassman on :
LOL, no way will they attack hillary...
Posted by Lockman on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: LOL, no way will they attack hillary...
Maybe not , their probably afraid she'll flip out and sent Bill over as a suicide bomber. lol
Posted by bdgee on :
I stated my plan.
You don't seem to have any that isn't a reiteration of the scare and threaten tactics of the Administration, which have proved to only worsen the situation.
You keep cheering on policies to threatening their existence and, quite logically, you then conclude the attacks will continue.
Nothing surprising. If you don't wise up, they will.
Posted by cottonjim on :
bdgee, of topic question but still an issue worthy of my curiosity. Didja ever get your ultralite sorted out? Oh, and what are you gonna b*tch about in '08 when the Dem's take control? Posted by bdgee on :
No, cj, the ultralight considerations are yet in the investigation stages. For example, I have yet to find, within a reasonable distance from me, a place from which I might fly an ultralight. Without that, I won't pursue further efforts.
I too expect the Democrats to take complet control of the Congress and the administration after the 08 elections. Then, I will point out the absurdities they participate in. (Sadly, with almost 30 years of the republicans packing the courts with Party line crooks who proudly have no loyalty to the Nation, only Party loyalty, it will take decades to clear out the Nazi influence completely. Pray that critical mass has not been achieved!)
I do not expect the horrendous attacks on the Constitution or the unfettered proliferation of government interference in the lives of the citizens from the democrats that became a major effort of the republican party after Teddy Roosevelt and since Reagan has become THE effort of the republicans. (The democrats are not blameless, though. It only seems that way because the magnitude of their efforts in that respect is such a trivial trickle in comparison to the republican's massive efforts to assault our culture with their nazi-like certitude and bigoted agenda of defining what is American (which is no different, really, in any way that matters, from German Nazi doctrine that demanded Arian purity. It is, as then, horribly inhumane, shortsighted, and dangerous.)
Posted by cottonjim on :
http://www.bourlandestates.com/ In cresson, I know a number of very nice people who live on the air field. Look into it if you want.
Posted by Lockman on :
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: I stated my plan.
You don't seem to have any that isn't a reiteration of the scare and threaten tactics of the Administration, which have proved to only worsen the situation.
You keep cheering on policies to threatening their existence and, quite logically, you then conclude the attacks will continue.
Nothing surprising. If you don't wise up, they will.
Where did you state your plan? Oh wait I know what your plan is, we withdraw our troops and then take it up the a$$, because after all we deserved to be attacked in the first place. Get your head out of your a$$ and realize we are up against an enemy that does not want peace with us they want total domination. Now maybe you like being tied up and made to wimper I don't.
The beauty of the United States is our brave soldiers will protect even those that will not support them. You always talk about the constitution well if we lose this battle against islamic facism it will not exist.
Posted by bdgee on :
Thanks, cj.
Bourland field was my first choice when I started looking for a field, because it is about a ten minute drive from here, perfect for what would be my use.
So, I went and talked to Dick Bourland. He said no, no ultralights. He owns it and as a private businessman, certainly has that right.
I did have a good time with him, though. We traded tales of some old time stick and rudder folk from around here and of our own experiences flying old under powered tail draggers.
I'm still checking other possibilities. Don't need much.....maybe 300 by 40 feet of open pasture or mowed and unplowed field not surrounded by power lines. That's well under 1/2 acre. Know anyone close to Bourland Field with such a plot, basically north to south, in order to yield to the prevailing south winds? Make it 400 x 40 and I can call on a fair amount of crosswind experience and get by.
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by Lockman:
Where did you state your plan? Oh wait I know what your plan is, we withdraw our troops and then take it up the a$$, because after all we deserved to be attacked in the first place. Get your head out of your a$$ and realize we are up against an enemy that does not want peace with us they want total domination. Now maybe you like being tied up and made to wimper I don't.
The beauty of the United States is our brave soldiers will protect even those that will not support them. You always talk about the constitution well if we lose this battle against islamic facism it will not exist.
Your fascist Party is seeing to it that both 1) we will be without our Constitution and 2) that we will loose to the Islamic fundamentalist.
Call it fundamentalism or Arianism or republican politics of fear, it remains a device intended to destroy freedoms and basic human rights.
Our enemy, you yell?
Pogo almost said it. But Walt Kelly died before the complete takeover of the republican party by the fascist, so he wasn't as specific as he needed to be. He hadn't seen in in its full plumage in order to identify it correctly.
No need to get your head out, because the stuff not only fills your eyes and blinds you to reality, it is stuffed, by your bigotry and Party like hate, into your otherwise vacuous head, where your excuse for thought feeds on it instead of knowledge and reason.
Posted by cottonjim on :
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Thanks, cj.
Bourland field was my first choice when I started looking for a field, because it is about a ten minute drive from here, perfect for what would be my use.
So, I went and talked to Dick Bourland. He said no, no ultralights. He owns it and as a private businessman, certainly has that right.
I did have a good time with him, though. We traded tales of some old time stick and rudder folk from around here and of our own experiences flying old under powered tail draggers.
I'm still checking other possibilities. Don't need much.....maybe 300 by 40 feet of open pasture or mowed and unplowed field not surrounded by power lines. That's well under 1/2 acre. Know anyone close to Bourland Field with such a plot, basically north to south, in order to yield to the prevailing south winds? Make it 400 x 40 and I can call on a fair amount of crosswind experience and get by.
Small, small world. Dick B. is a very nice guy, I was not aware that he was not allowing ultralites on his field. I have met him personaly once and had many phone conversations with him, he has a heck of a nice community there. I will look into some of my other contacts and see if I can find something in your area, being in the aviation industry, nationwide, I should be able to come up with something I would think.
Posted by bdgee on :
I do appreciate the help, cj. I've been to a few other fields nearby (mostly to the SW of Ft.Worth, as the other sides of town get to be more than a short trip...this ain't no small little berg) and gotten refused at them too.
They use various reasoning, like the place that told me that "If those guys had pilots licenses, our insurance would be ok, but they don't." So, naturally I pointed out that I have a license and a wee bit of experiance. There were three of them there and they all stood silently for a while with nothing to say. Finally one said, "No, no ultralights, we don't like 'em." I thanked them for their time an left.
I keep looking. I don't want to be investing either time or money until I can assure myself it is feasible. If I whip the place to fly problem, I'll get serious about preparing a place and gathering the materials to build one.
Posted by cottonjim on :
Just got of the phone with one of my pilot freinds from Cresson, he is sure there is a field in the area that has ultralites taking off and landing all the time. He could not remember the guy's name who owned it though. He suggested to talk to anyone who deals in ultralites in the area. I know there is an ultralite field in Hempstead but that is a pretty far drive for you I would imagine. They sell and service UL's there so maybe they would know. I have their # if you want it let me know and I will PM it to you.
Posted by bdgee on :
Yeah, hempstead is about 200 milesfrom here. Cresson, though, is about about 10 - 12 miles down Hwy 377 which is about 5 blocks from the house.
(There is a splendid family style resturant in downtown Hempstead that you have to get reservations a couple of months ahead of time. If you ever need to be near there and know with enough lead time, you couldn't go wrong in getting reservations. It is not expensive. I don't recall its name, but the Hempstead Chamber or any filling station there would.)
I have been to the field that Bourland suggested, which is east of Cresson. They weren't real friendly at all and sent me on a wild goose chase with specific directions to another place that turned out to not be a field at all. Someday maybe I can do them a favor too.
There is a closer ultralight park than Hempstead north of Denton. It's an old WWI and WWII training field that has gone back to the original family and is operated for ultralights only. It is the nearest to me I can locate, but that would be a couple of hours drive through some generally nasty traffic.
(I think we have about covered up the initial subject trend of this thread.
Oops....hahahahaha.)
Posted by T e x on :
...splendid family style resturant in downtown Hempstead . . . .
Where's Hempstead, beedge? Sounds like a Saturday kinda deal to me...
Posted by IMAKEMONEY on :
TEX, YOU THE MOD FOR THE NIGHT?
Posted by T e x on :
don't yell at me!
Posted by jordanreed on :
hempinstead
Posted by T e x on :
A new gated community?
Posted by bdgee on :
Down south of College Station, Tex.
Yep, it would be a marvelous day trip.
Used to know an excitable long legged radiologist from there (she had other attributes too). That made it a marvelous over night trip.
What did the man say about getting old? Oh yeah, "Youth is wasted on the young." (I wasted my share and some of yours. You should have used it up yourself.)
Posted by jordanreed on :
dont know bout yous guys...but my 20's thru the 40's were pretty damn sweet.!...not much money,but a hell of a lot of fun..
Posted by jordanreed on :
ouch!...she bit me!
Posted by T e x on :
lol, am handling that part...
Should be on a job in Austin in the next few weeks...if I can, will sneak away--never been there, always lookin'
btw, I dig the aside: excited radiology makes my day Posted by bdgee on :
'Twas "an excitable radiologist" not "excited radiology".
Hey, maybe you can find her, Tex. that long legged thang moved to a job in an Austin hospital.
Never been to Austin? Well, I can tell you the real Austin is still there, somewhat, but hidden from most by the popularity of the place. Find some old time Austinite and have them show you the place. Can't go feed beer to a drunk Willie at Threadgill's to get a song out of him now, I'm told the Office Lounge has ceased to be, and I hear you need reservations to get in my favorite Mexican resturant from those days back when. What really breaks my heart when I am there is seeing they have paved over the back yard and Schultz's. But with an appropriate guide, you should be able to find plenty of non-gringo bars and there is always a coed or two working the downtown hotel bars when ya get tired of singing and telling lies and are ready to put things to bed.
Then, some other day when ya have a job to the east of there a hundred miles or so you can go eat in Hempstead.
Posted by T e x on :
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: ouch!...she bit me!
lucky you
Posted by Hannibull on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: and all the "diplomacy" from Bush is a joke to them..
it's a joke to the rest of the world as well
Posted by bdgee on :
Maybe, but funny to laugh at....
Funny, like the sort of thing that comes from someone at the funny farm, with implications filled with horrors.
Sick, to put it bluntly.....sick and dangerous....
Posted by glassman on :
no it's not funny.
“Why worsen the situation and bring it to a dead end by threatening sanctions or military action?” Putin asked. “Running around like a madman with a razor blade, waving it around, is not the best way to resolve the situation.”
Russia, which is building Iran's first nuclear power plant, has opposed a new push for a third round of U.N. sanctions over the Iranian defiance of a Security Council demand that it suspend enriching uranium.
the problems is that i personally believe the Iranians are working on a bomb too. maybe not on the same time schedule Bush seems to think is in place tho...
ironically? it is in both Putin and Irans best financial interest to push this situation to the very brink of war. of course if we attack iran? iran will be more or less economically, if not literally destroyed. Putin will just have more customers for his oil and nat gas.
Posted by bdgee on :
Personal beliefs are fine, so long as it is kept firmly in mind that belief is not knowledge and certainly not knowledge that should precipitate war. Personal beliefs about Iran, absent information that is both specific and available to all, does not amount to justification of claims that that nation is ratcheting up to nuclear war or WW III and justifiably should be punished for threatening the U.S. or any other nation.
Putin is NOT the only interested party with "other views" and there are quite well informed and concerned persons with similar "other views" that are not based on personal belief.
We allowed our personal beliefs (mostly built from lies, along with some badly and propagandized selected data) to permit the Administration to invade a sovereign nation and throw the world into decades at least of danger of ever present war and turmoil in order to eliminate a danger or threat that did not exists except in the "beliefs" of an ultra conservative faction of a political party with an out of date anti-communist bias. It is loosing it fear tactics on the public again!
With absolute respect for personal belief, after the invasion of Iraq and subsequent proof that there was no danger there that justified the invasion, we and the World know that our leaders hyped the world into danger that clearly won't be over for many years, I must insist that this nation owes it to the whole World to reach beyond "belief" in any considerations or claims of a need to eliminate or define potential hostilities and danger from any nation. We do not have the credibility for that any longer and that is a position we clearly earned. Each such claim by the Administration further diminishes the creditability of the U.S.
Responsibility demands that we understand that "personal belief" is not in any way "proof" and, in view of our encroachment on World peace with the invasion of Iraq, any claims made, however close but short of absolute proof, of immediate danger from Iran only destroys further the reputation of the U.S. and any hope of reaching peace in the Middle East.
It is my personal belief that there are many thousands of people in Iran that hate the U.S. deep in their gut and would watch in glee if we were attacked by anyone (and no doubt would eagarly wish for Iran to build a bomb and deliver it to the U.S.), but I suspect that is also true of Germany and South Africa, and Canada and India and Georgia (the state) and Japan and Egypt and Brazil, and Pennsylvania and China and on and on and on.
Posted by Oddmanout on :
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