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Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
Fonda is back in the game
Jane Fonda returns to the big screen in 'Georgia Rule.'
By BARRY KOLTNOW
The Orange County Register
Jane Fonda, who continues to apologize for her "thoughtless, but not treasonous" actions during the Vietnam War, said she feels sorry for the people who cannot let go of their hatred for her.

"They're pathetic," she said during a recent interview to promote her new movie "Georgia Rule," which opens today in the wake of the "Spider-Man 3" tidal wave.

"The fact that they have never stopped going after me shows that they haven't healed. That's sad. And I do feel sorry for them because they have to live with the lies."

In 1972, the actress made a trip to North Vietnam with a large group of anti-war activists, but she received most of the attention when she was photographed sitting and smiling atop an anti-aircraft battery surrounded by enemy soldiers.

The two-time Oscar winner insists that the controversy surrounding her trip was initiated by people with political motives, and accused unspecified "right-wingers" with continuing to use her to further their cause during the war in Iraq.

"I'm a lightning rod," she explained. "They need me as a warning to other people who might want to protest against this war. It's as if they're saying: 'If you protest, you could end up like Hanoi Jane.'

Fonda, who will turn 70 on Dec. 21, said she is somewhat amused by the suggestion in some circles that she initiated the anti-war movement since she believes that she came late to the fray.

"I tend to get too much credit, and all of the blame," she said. "I only turned against the war after three years of going to military bases, talking to soldiers and listening to what they were saying about the war. I supported the troops. I went to Vietnam to support the troops. I know in my heart that going there was in no way, shape or form treasonous. I did not betray my country. And I did not betray the soldiers."

As for the infamous photo of her on the anti-aircraft battery, Fonda said she understood that she had made a mistake within seconds.

"We were all standing around and someone said to sit here and I moved two steps and sat down. As soon as I got up and started walking away, I realized how it must have looked and said to my interpreter: "Oh my God, please destroy that film."

"I wasn't supporting them against us. That's not who I am, and that was not what I was thinking."

Fonda said that she has met many veterans who said they understand what happened, but the criticism of her, particularly on the Internet, continues unabated.

"There is nothing new in anything they write," she said. "It's the same old story all the time. But it will end someday. It will end when they die."

NO PLAIN JANE

Born Lady Jayne Seymour Fonda in New York City to an actor father (Oscar winner Henry Fonda) and a socialite mother (Frances Seymour Brokaw), young Jane seemed destined to become an actress.

But she says her destiny had nothing to do with her father, but rather her inability to do anything else. The only "real" job she ever held was as a 19-year-old secretary to a Broadway producer, but she was fired shortly after she started (if you'd like to find out the juicy details behind why she got fired from that job, check ****s.ocregister.com/barry).

After working in the theater, Fonda made the transition to the big screen with the help of family friend Josh Logan, the noted director who gave his goddaughter her first film role in his 1960 movie, "Tall Story."

Her breakthrough role came in the 1965 hit "Cat Ballou," and she continued her winning streak in such films as "Barefoot in the Park" in 1967, "Barbarella" in 1968 and "They Shoot Horses, Don't They?" in 1969, for which she got the first of seven Oscar nominations.

She won the Oscar in 1972 for playing a prostitute in "Klute," and again in 1979 for the anti-war drama "Coming Home."

In 1984, she won an Emmy for the television movie "The Dollmaker." Her workout videos during the 1980s revolutionized the fitness industry, and her 2005 autobiography "My Life So Far" hit the top of the best-sellers list. The same week, her comeback film "Monster-in-Law" opened at No. 1, giving her the distinction of being the only person to ever have a No. 1 book and film in the same week.

Fonda, who has been married and divorced three times (French director Roger Vadim, activist Tom Hayden and billionaire Ted Turner), left acting in 1990 and didn't come out of retirement until 15 years later with "Monster-in-Law."

She explained her absence from films this way: "If you're a painter, you have a canvas and a brush. If you are a musician, you have an instrument. But when you're an actor, you only have this," she said, pointing to her body.

"If you're unhappy and don't like yourself, or if you are shut down emotionally, it is very hard to go to work every day. I found it very painful and very scary to act. I just didn't want to do this anymore.

"But I never missed it," she added. "And I never expected to come back. Movies have never been the center of my life, which I think has been my saving grace. It is much healthier when you are someone in this mercurial business to have other aspects of your life."

Following her divorce, she became a born-again Christian (raised an atheist, she now calls herself a "feminist Christian"), although she said she had been leaning in that direction since her early 50s. Whatever the reason, she said she eventually felt like acting again.

"Even though I don't need acting, I'd like it to be part of the mix," she said.

She said she would like to make four to six more movies "before I die," and would like at least one of them to be a sexy movie.

"Some people assume that after a certain age, there is no more eroticism. I'd like to make a movie that addresses that."

In "Georgia Rule," Fonda plays a demanding woman with a lot of unbending rules who lives alone in a small Idaho town. She has a dysfunctional relationship with her sophisticated but alcoholic daughter (Felicity Huffman), who drops off her obnoxious and spoiled daughter (Lindsay Lohan) to live with her grandmother for the summer.

"At my age, it is hard to develop a strategy or to be choosy because you are at the whims of Hollywood, but I still turn down some roles. But I couldn't turn down this one. It's a character-driven story with subjects that interest me, such as family dysfunction and healing in the face of that dysfunction."

Fonda's own dysfunctional relationship with her father has been well-documented, and was pretty much played out in the 1981 film "On Golden Pond," for which the elder Fonda won his only Oscar.

His daughter says that film remains one of her favorites.

"I am proud that I produced it, I am proud that I got to work with my father in it and I am proud that he finally won an Oscar."

As for reports that she channels her father in "Georgia Rule," particularly in the disapproving way her character looks at her daughter and granddaughter, Fonda shrugs her shoulders and smiles.

"I've heard that from two different people already, but I swear that I never consciously thought about it. But, who knows? Maybe there was a bit of Henry in there."
 
Posted by NaturalResources on :
 
[Roll Eyes]

It's not just about the pictures Jane....

Anyway, IMO, she would have been better off just sticking to the movie business instead of running around giving speeches about how we should be on our knees praying the United States would become communist...

 -

I will say one thing, she sure was a fox when she was younger...
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
Why do you spread this hate?

"Anyway, IMO, she would have been better off just sticking to the movie business instead of running around giving speeches about how we should be on our knees praying the United States would become communist..."

More lies and crap from THE super duper know-it-all republican.

You can't find even one statement she ever made saying she wanted the U.S. to become communist. There isn't any.

It is one thing to disapprove of things she has actually done or said, but lying about it is cheap and childish.

Why must you di it?
 
Posted by andrew on :
 
It seems to me she did support communism.

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnkerry.com/story8.htm
 
Posted by NaturalResources on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
Why do you spread this hate?

"Anyway, IMO, she would have been better off just sticking to the movie business instead of running around giving speeches about how we should be on our knees praying the United States would become communist..."

More lies and crap from THE super duper know-it-all republican.

You can't find even one statement she ever made saying she wanted the U.S. to become communist. There isn't any.

It is one thing to disapprove of things she has actually done or said, but lying about it is cheap and childish.

Why must you di it?

"I, a Socialist, think we should strive toward a Socialist society, all the way to Communism." - Jane Fonda

"If you understood what communism was, you would hope, you would pray on your knees that we would some day become communist." - Jane Fonda
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
No, she did not, but the far rightwing warmongers have spent billions promoting that lie, andy.

Fonda, like most of the people in the country back then, opposed the war in Viet Nam, but unlike most, she had the notoriety to be heard and the war lovers hated that. They started a chamaign to smear her and her name and continue it today. They still maintain their hate of everything and everybody that did not want to continue in Viet nam. had they their way, we would would be still fighting in Viet Nam. They are not an honorable collection of people.
 
Posted by NaturalResources on :
 
Wait wait before you respond... let me guess... Just lies from the RNC...? Perhaps you could find some quotes or text of her denying she ever said these things, then maybe, just maybe, I might believe you.
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
NR, that is BS and isn't true.

Can't you learn to not depend on those far rightwing "sources". They do not provide truth.

Anyway, there is nothing in the constitution making communism un-American anbd the Supreme Court SO RULED OVER AND OVER.
 
Posted by andrew on :
 
I guess this is a lie also.

http://www.ussyorktown.com/yorktown/apology.htm
 
Posted by jordanreed on :
 
switch the word vietnam with Iraq....interchangable
 
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
I guess i did not see clips back then of what came out of Jane's mouth. She adds a little more class when she stands in Hanoi and does Her thing with POW's not far from her, a real class act.
 
Posted by NaturalResources on :
 
Bdgee, why don't you provide some evidence that she has refuted that she said these things. I know and you know, if someone had published false quotes about something you or I had said, we would certainly have made a public statement denying it. Yet there seems to be none...

Instead of pretending to be the expert and expecting me to take your word for it, find some evidence that she has denied saying these thing and post it here and I will personally appologize to both you and Jane Fonda.

I am not saying it is unconstitutional to promote communism so get off it already. What exactly is the point of that comment, other than making false allusions in a pathetic attempt to portray me as Joseph McCarthy?
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
So, what difference does it make, andy. The woman acknowledged her mistakes.

She DID NOT apologize for opposing the war against North Viet Nam, Why should she? She was right, it was an improper war and the U.S. should never have been involved. (Had it not been for Eisenhower sending troops to support his buddy De Gaulle, we probably wouldn't have been there.) We needed to have gotten out years before we did. It was an unwinnable war, just like Iraq.

The last person that you should be suspecting of being communist or socialistic is Jane Fonda. It was her that set the standard for women making a fortune selling how to stuff, then came Martha Stewart and Rosie and a host of others copying the model. Fonda made millions on exercise stuff.

That's called capitalism.
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by NaturalResources:
Bdgee, why don't you provide some evidence that she has refuted that she said these things. I know and you know, if someone had published false quotes about something you or I had said, we would certainly have made a public statement denying it. Yet there seems to be none...

Instead of pretending to be the expert and expecting me to take your word for it, find some evidence that she has denied saying these thing and post it here.

I am not saying it is unconstitutional to promote communism so get off it already. What exactly is the point of that comment, other than making false allusions in a pathetic attempt to portray me as Joseph McCarthy?

Better yet, why don't you get over that obsession with those sneaky mean dirty evil communist that don't play fair.

Communism isn't coming here, not by choice and not by force. Get over it. And for God's sake, stop announcing everyone who has ever done something you disapprove of (or that irritates your bigotry bone) is a communist. I doubt you have ever even see a true communist except for maybe seeing pictures of Castro on the TV.

You are a wanna be Joseph McCarthy, relying on the same techniques and squalid emotional trash and smearing the name and deeds and reputation of everyone you get a chance to.
 
Posted by NaturalResources on :
 
Bla bla bla... you are just trying to change the subject now... Find any evidence of Fonda refuting those quotes that were published in the Washington Times? While you are busy looking for that, here is a promotion for Barbarella, for your viewing pleasure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCyFv8W-0yM&mode=related&search=
 
Posted by jordanreed on :
 
com·mu·nism [ kómmyə nězzəm ]


noun

Definition:

classless political system: the political theory or system in which all property and wealth is owned in a classless society by all the members of that society
 
Posted by bond006 on :
 
For one thing there has never been a communist country on the face of the earth,in the spirit of what marx would have referd to as a communist country.

Cuba inho has come the closest to it but there are still class differences in Cuba and Castro is a true Marxist.

But that does not mean anything there have been marxist around and running countries with a capitalist economy.

Look at the politics of Italy'France and Great Britian many marxist in thoes country's France still has the communist party as a functioning political party on the ballot.

I think the reds should be represented here to rather than sneaking around infiltrating all the other parties at least we would know what they were up to and people would get to make a choice. It is not going away imho
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by NaturalResources:
Bla bla bla... you are just trying to change the subject now... Find any evidence of Fonda refuting those quotes that were published in the Washington Times? While you are busy looking for that, here is a promotion for Barbarella, for your viewing pleasure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCyFv8W-0yM&mode=related&search=

Why don't you grow up?

You are still fighting a cold war that ended when Ben Laden drove the Russians out of an unwinable war in Afganistan by destroying the ecomnomy of the U.S.S.R. when it refused to accept that such a war is unwinable.
 
Posted by andrew on :
 
sighhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh........................
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
Good post, bond....
 
Posted by NaturalResources on :
 
Find Jane Fonda's denial yet Bdgee? Didn't think so.
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
Get off it you perfect a--hole.

I am not here to spend my day chasing references you could find yourself if you bothered to look for them instead of hunting for misquotes and lies to cut and paste on the net.

You tell lies and then think you substiant them by demanding proof from others.

A lie is a lie is a lie.

And an obsession with communism is too.
 
Posted by andrew on :
 
well put.
 
Posted by NaturalResources on :
 
I post something that was printed in a national newspaper and has never been denied by Jane Fonda, and you claim it is false. You are the one who has the burden of proof on your shoulders. If the quotes published were false, where is the retraction? Where are the libel lawsuits?
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
Has it ever been acknowledged by her?

Find me that, with proof it is her doing the acknowledging not someone that is full of hate saying she did. You are too hateful toward the woman to be taken seriously.

Your history and record on the subject makes anything you "claim" to be true suspect. Just because you find some thing said in that rightwing garbage you devour doesn't make it true.
 
Posted by NaturalResources on :
 
Hateful? Show me where I have been hateful. All I have done is post quotes published by a national newspaper by Jane Fonda that suggests she advocated communism...
 
Posted by jordanreed on :
 
fonda in her forties looking fine in "on golden pond"
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
i don't care if she is a commie... she's HOT! [Big Grin]
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
A national newspapaer?

hahahahahahahaha

"The Enquirer" is a national newspaper.

And why would you be so enthusiastic to post stuff intended to trash the name and reputation of someone other than your hatred? What you are doing is intended to trash the name and reputation of the woman? Hey, man, that's hate.

I don't believe there is a snow ball's chance in hell that those are quotes of Fonda, instead, they are hateful lies by your kind. I can find essentially the same sort of "quotes" attributed to just about anyone of note somewhere and many of those somewheres are in newspapers.

It isn't a fact simply by being published in a paper.

You are hateful and you are obsessed with communism, a thing you don't even know what it is.

What damage did Jane Fonda ever do to you? I mean other than what you imagine. Did she steal you money? Run over you dog? Tell you wife you grabbed her butt in an elevator?

As far as her activities during the Viet Nam War, she was right, we needed, for the sake of the Nation and the sake of humanity, to get out of Viet nam (and she might have speeded that up, but I doubt it).

She DID NOT hurt you by exercising her Constitutional rights back then and if that is your claim it is you that is violating the honor of Amnerica, not her. She did have the right, you know, to an opinion and the right to speak it aloud.

You are being hateful toward the woman.

You should be ashamed to be so low and base.
 
Posted by NaturalResources on :
 
The Detroit Free Press (republished by the Washington Times in 2000)

"I would think that if you understood what communism was, you would hope, you would pray on your knees that we would someday become Communist."

US Congress House Committee on Internal Security (HCIS)

"I am a Socialist, I think that we should strive toward a Socialist society-all the way to communism."

The Peoples World

"To make the revolution in the United States is a slow day-by-day job that requires patience and discipline. It is the only way to make it. . . . All I know is that despite the fact that I am one of the people who benefit from a capitalist society, I find that any system which exploits other people cannot and should not exist."

The Dallas Morning News

"We've got to establish a Socialist economic structure that will limit private profit-oriented businesses. Whether the transition is peaceful depends on the way our present governmental leaders react. We must commit our lives to this transition. ... We should be very proud of our new breed of soldier. . . . It's not organized but it's mutiny, and they have every right."

.... Hardly quotes from the "The Enquirer" as you suggest.

Telling the truth about what can be found in the public record and has NEVER been denied, retracted or subject to a libel lawsuit is hardly spredding lies, and nothing close to being hateful towards the woman.
 
Posted by andrew on :
 
Angie Dickenson was hot in her time.
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
You know, I've always admired Ted Turner. (I have never met the man so I can't guess if I'd like him personally.)

Unlike so many that grew up rich and inherited daddy's business, he didn't make that be his entire life.

Turner went off and won a bunch of ocean yacht races to start, the America's cup among them.

When daddy's business fell to him, he had the gall to not sit on the fortune and just be rich, he had the imagination to create cable tv, all by his lonesome, in spite of an entire industry that did whatever it could to stop him.

He made baseball and football and basketball work in Atlanta and it was as much his foresight as any that swung the contest between Atlanta and Birmingham to become the major air service transfer point in the southeast.

As it became obvious to him that he was amassing a fortune way bigger than he had any hope to ever dominate, without fanfare, he began donating huge sums to worthwile endeavors and he did so well before he was old.

The man has an intriguing and productive mind that has seen success over and over and not in just one sort of endeavor.

I note that Turner choose Jane Fonda.

That speaks for her as much if not more than all the hateful slanders all put together all at once.
 
Posted by NaturalResources on :
 
Funny you should bring that up.

Jane Fonda was married to someone in the media as powerful as Ted Turner, and you don't find it odd that she never sued any of the publications that printed those quotes, nor the dozens of other media sources that later used the original quotes? Gimme a break....

Besides, if as you claim, all of the quotes above attriubuted to her are BS, why doesn't she just demonstrate that fact conclusively and be done with it?
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
I do not feel it odd at all. (Then too, by the time she married Turner, he had ceded control of his media empire in huge business deals and no longer had any influence over them.)

As a celebrity, according the numerous rulings of the Courts, you don't have the provileges of anonimity and cannot expect to not be talked about, whether or not the talk is wrong, and yoiu can't be awarded a judgment on the same basis as normal people.

She couldn't win in court even if she proved her case absolutely, because of those precedents.

She has been demonsrating it quite conclusively and getting more of your kind of attention every time she does.

You fail to see what she does, favoring to spread lies that never were close to the truth in order to promote your rightwing agenda and feed your communist obsession.

NR! The U.S.S.R isn't any more. Ben Laden killed it by egging them into a war that couldn't be won and teasing them into not geting out before they went bankrupt.

Stop trying to generate a new "red scare". We don't need to live in that fear now.
 
Posted by NaturalResources on :
 
First you claim I can't find a statement then you claimed what I found was a lie and now you are claiming it's a lie, but one created by Fonda herself in order to fool people like me who go around trying to generate a new red scare? LOL your arguements are truly pathetic and a three year old would have a better chance at pulling it off than you.

Personally, I think you would have been better off just calling me an A-hole in the beginning and left it at that.

quote:
Get off it you perfect a--hole.
What is it you are always saying about name calling again? By the way, I do not slander your name by using it in my 'tagline'. You claim over and over that I am nothing but an RNC Parrot. I am simply making sure you will be held to your accusations every single time I post. If it somehow bothers you to read your own comments in my tagline, maybe you shouldn't have made them in the first place. This will be my final post on this thread.

Good Day Sir.
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
It is a lie.

Your first post on any subject is to attack and insult and condem someone or some group. You attack first, generally with an argument based on bigotry and lies. Subsequent post are a long line of hate and name calling and labeling and "contrived" but ficticious claims to discredit whomever you are attacking at the time.

Good, it would have been nice of you not to have posted your first in this thread, which was a hate filled attack on a person you don't like. You might then have gone on to say "you believed" certain things, but no, you declared thenm to be absolute truths and you have admitted you have no information to establish that. That amountds to hateful willing slander.

It would be one thing had you said you don't like or approve of Jane Fonda, but you had to address your silly and childish obsession with communism, by planting lies.

Lies you don't even have the courage to take the blame for. You blame it on others and claim that their saying it makes it true, refusing to even investigate further. Jane Fonda never mad trhe statements you attribute to her, at least no within any context you are familiar with.

Your sickness and hatred of things you don't understand amounts to deep deep bigotry.
 
Posted by The Bigfoot on :
 
Communism is indeed an ideal society.

So Idealistic that it doesn't work in the real world. We know that now. But 36 years ago? The fight over communism had different motivations and connotations. Remember McCarthy's list?

When tensions are high positions tend to become polarized.
 
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
Jane did what she did for Jane and nobody else. She was in Hollywood because of her dad and i doubt she would have made it on her own. Her actions went way beyond war protests and she could have cared less who it affected. She has been on many talk shows over the years and up untill recently she had never cared what she did. Maybe now that she has a new movie coming out she figures it will help her box office numbers. Like The bumper sticker says: Vietnam Veterans are not Fonda Jane.
 
Posted by T e x on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
i don't care if she is a commie... she's HOT! [Big Grin]

lol...

"kinda" what I was thinking... who was it in-thread said she was a fox? NR? ya, boy...no Ann-Margret, but plenty of wow-factor. I dunno about adressing eroticism now, though...could be great, could be ewwww-weee...

Also, Beedge mentioned not knowing any real commies...boy, howdy, I knew one...in of all places, Little Rock, at UALR. He was strident and off-putting in his fervor (as many college kids tend to be), but I grew to have great affection for him...articulate, well read...and that boy HATED HIM SOME KKK! lol, he would take a bat to a KKK demo...and wade right in. Have no idea if he wound up getting killed or sent up or what...but he sure drew a line in the dirt for what he believed...
 
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
You guys are getting old. Jane over Drew Barrymore or Cameron Diaz or many many others, not in my book.
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
Tex, I didn't say I had never known a true communist, I said NR hadn't and was blowin it out his .....

Every college campus has at least one super avid communist, usually several, (and at least one socialist that isn't a communist and some jesus freaks and athiest and Nazis and folks that believe they are aliens and some morons and idiots ....... and all-in-all they don't hurt a darn thing, make the experience of education far more encompassing and richer and more valuable)) and they are indeed admirable in their zeal for equality and fairness.

Even in the heyday of the communist hunts of the 50sand 60s, anti-communism as a conviction was pretty much confined to the same red-neck crowds that cherished segregation and antiSemitism and denying rights to women. Not exactly a generous or intellectual coterie to have to deal with or suffer.


I'm sorry to have to report that, even today, ant-JaneFondaism is alive and well. It is most most rampant amongs that same cadre of groups.

Like a poison gas, their kind tends to collect together in low places so they cohabit amongst only their own kind and have experience otherwise and, thus, no concept or knowledge that the great majority of us do not dwell on any or all of the following:

1) what Jane Fonda did in the time of the First Great American War That Had No End and That Could
Never Be Won
.

2) discriminating agaainst Jews.

3) discriminating against women.

40 discriminating agains blacks.

5) eagerly misrinterpretating the Constitution, wherby, the term "the people" is replaces by "citizens", thus making it seem patriotic and Christian to discriminate against Jews and women, and Mexicans and Japaneese and Viet Namese and non-Christians and non-members of the Chamber of Commerce oR the Elk Club or the Shriners or The downtown Loins club ........

6) spreading the false idea that the Constitution was written as a Christian anchor for the United States of America, so that it would be acceptable to discriminate against any non-Christian and asserting that the Constitution not only recognises Christianity as a necessary part of the America, but also that the Government is bound to enforce a requirement that Christian doctrin and customs can be forced on others.
 
Posted by T e x on :
 
was more or less reacting to the idea that probably lottsa folks never known a real commie; and by way of addendum, in corollary agreement with your portrait of "youth," I must add that my young friend may not have experienced misadventure at all, and in fact may today be a thriving Republicrat...perhaps an MM, lol, with a Hummer and 2.7 kids in Westchester. Such is youth...
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
Every college campus has at least one super avid communist, usually several, (and at least one socialist that isn't a communist and some jesus freaks and athiest and Nazis and folks that believe they are aliens and some morons and idiots ....... and all-in-all they don't hurt a darn thing, make the experience of education far more encompassing and richer and more valuable)) and they are indeed admirable in their zeal for equality and fairness

hey bdgeee, you haven't been keeping up with the times...

all "those" now just play World of Warcraft on the intenet...

they are fighting or becoming night elves, dwarves gnomes, orcs, troll s and blood elves, etc...
 
Posted by T e x on :
 
ya, but there's fascist orcs, socialist elves...

[Razz]
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
i hear the Elves Union is stronger than the AMA....

so? is the AMA a buncha communistic capitalists? like the Chinese?
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
I like that, "communistic capitalists".

Sort of like open minded bigot or Fox news.
 
Posted by rimasco on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by IWISHIHAD:
As for the infamous photo of her on the anti-aircraft battery, Fonda said she understood that she had made a mistake within seconds.

"We were all standing around and someone said to sit here and I moved two steps and sat down. As soon as I got up and started walking away, I realized how it must have looked and said to my interpreter: "Oh my God, please destroy that film."

Well thats what happens when you conspire with the enemy...WHAT A DOPE!...I dont care how passionate you are about a particular movement. If youre dumb enough to take photo opps with the "opposing team" well then I guess your playing for them.....or with....
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
I personally think that unusual means may be necessary to bring the attention of the American people to the impropriety of the unwinnable wars in Viet Nam and Iraq.

It is anythiung but inappropriate to work to let the people learn how insane it is to back a dishonest Administration waging such a war, particularly when it is the war in Iraq, which was only allowed by the people and Congress due to a string of viscious lies by the Administration that we now know were lies. (The war in Viet Nam was continually justified by lies about the reasons for being there, the reasons for staying there, the reasons for not leaving, and the actual and neaar totaal failures of the military in that war.)

Indeed, to assail a person for recognizing their responsibility of being an American citizen and for exercising their Constitutional rights to speak against a war is unpatriotic and shameful.

We should be proud of our country men and women that have the honor and guts to stand up against the massive flow of propagana that comes out of the Pentagon and the Administration. Doing so is quintessential America and attacking it or those the dare to do it is very anti-american.
 
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
Quote Bdgee:
(The war in Viet Nam was continually justified by lies about the reasons for being there, the reasons for staying there, the reasons for not leaving, and the actual and neaar totaal failures of the military in that war.)
_________________________________________________

I do not think the military failed.(weapons, soldiers)
The tactics that we used could not win that war, but many of the fights were won, speaking militarily.
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
I do think the military failed. They refused to recognize that it was a hopelessly unwinnable war and they are still professing disagreement with that fact, spending millions of my dollars every year to train youn cadets to believe that lie.

We are now fighting another unwinnable war and the military once again is claiming it is winnable but isn't being won only due to interferrence by the the civilian leadership of the Country. It would not be winable whatever influence or lack of influence from whatever source, simply because it isn't.

You keep making the mistake of tossing in the soldiers and flyers and sailers with the mistakes and wrong decisions and wanting to believe that since, in general, those groups and individuals fight their hearts and soles out that they are "the Military", They are not. They are only the fodder of the military...they do not make decisions or issue tactical or strategic orders or even evaluate the situation.

The American people (Jane Fonda too if you would get passed your prejudice and bother to listen) does not now and did not in Viet Nam blame the soldiers and sailors and flyers The American people blame now and blamed then the Pentagon and the Administration for putting those others of our people in harms way when they could only be party to a loss and could only be involved in upseting the equilibriums of world politics.
 
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
You and Jane forget that the soldiers are the military. Of course like always you tend to forget what you want, like Jane. Just like Vietnam was started by Eisenhower and then there was Nixon and of course Kennedy and Johnson were just innocent bystanders, not worth mentioning as far as the Vietnam War.

As far as prejudice toward Jane, any jerk that stands up in Hanoi and speaks what came out of her mouth (while we were over fighting a war and the POWs not too far from where she was speaking) deserves what she has gotten over the years. Go try and convince someone else that your interpretation is correct. I heard her junk, right out of her mouth, and your versions don't cut it.
 
Posted by rimasco on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
The American people (Jane Fonda too if you would get passed your prejudice and bother to listen) does not now and did not in Viet Nam blame the soldiers and sailors and flyers The American people blame now and blamed then the Pentagon and the Administration for putting those others of our people in harms way when they could only be party to a loss and could only be involved in upseting the equilibriums of world politics.

So judging by these photos youre saying it would be ok (hypothetically speakingof course) If the Dixie chicks went on a USO tour for insurgents?

http://www.1stcavmedic.com/jane_fonda.htm
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
No me and Jane didn't forget any such thing, because it isn't true and because you have no idea what I know or don't know ( do not agree with her technique). You blurt out artificial arrogant bigotry and hate. Of course, like always, you tend to believe whatever your structured prejudice tells you to, so, probably, it isn't really your fault.

Viet Name was started by the French Empire and the U.S. became involved when Eisenhower came to the aid of de Gaulle, years before either Kennedy or Johnson even knew there were U.S. troops there fighting on the side of South Viet Nam (but Nixon, Eisenhower's VP, knew from the start).


In your bigotry and hatred, you smear and insult the Constitution by spewing hatred toward people that honor and respect it by acting according to its guarantees.

When you oppose anyone that is exercising his or her constitutional right to free speach for doing exactly that and holler that they, in doing so are un-American, then it is you that is being un-american.

It is one thing to declare your disagreement with them, but you are declaring they had no right to disagree with you and to exercise their Constitutional right. You were brain washed by the Pentagon and you and your kind, acting as they wished, are attempting to punish people for using their rights.

That is anti-Constitutional and undermines its most basic tenets, i.e., though you have every right to your opinion and to disagree with other opinions, by comdeming another for their exercise of a righ guaranteed in the Copnstitution, you are the ones that are anti-American and you should be ashamed.

You hear whatever the Pentagon and the RNC propagana bought and paid you to learn to hear. I cost us billions to brain wash you.

You need to get over your unpatrioitic hatred and stop fighting a lost war ..... and stop supporting this lost war.
 
Posted by T e x on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by rimasco:
quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
The American people (Jane Fonda too if you would get passed your prejudice and bother to listen) does not now and did not in Viet Nam blame the soldiers and sailors and flyers The American people blame now and blamed then the Pentagon and the Administration for putting those others of our people in harms way when they could only be party to a loss and could only be involved in upseting the equilibriums of world politics.

So judging by these photos youre saying it would be ok (hypothetically speakingof course) If the Dixie chicks went on a USO tour for insurgents?

http://www.1stcavmedic.com/jane_fonda.htm

one supposes that even entertainers can learn...of course, if they went on a USO tour, preseumably it would have been vetted...
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by rimasco:
quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
The American people (Jane Fonda too if you would get passed your prejudice and bother to listen) does not now and did not in Viet Nam blame the soldiers and sailors and flyers The American people blame now and blamed then the Pentagon and the Administration for putting those others of our people in harms way when they could only be party to a loss and could only be involved in upseting the equilibriums of world politics.

So judging by these photos youre saying it would be ok (hypothetically speakingof course) If the Dixie chicks went on a USO tour for insurgents?

http://www.1stcavmedic.com/jane_fonda.htm

You continue to make the mistake you always have in assuming you have the right or the ability to declare what I think.

You have never been right in the past, so it is to my infinite surprise, that you are wrong again. I really though you would learn.

I personally think the Dixie chicks are not only beautiful in body, but in mind and politic too. I once only enjoyed their music, now I admire their partiotism.

I once enjoyed the humor of Dennis Miller, but I can't stomach his anti-american fascism anymore.
 
Posted by rimasco on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
quote:
Originally posted by rimasco:
quote:
Originally posted by bdgee:
The American people (Jane Fonda too if you would get passed your prejudice and bother to listen) does not now and did not in Viet Nam blame the soldiers and sailors and flyers The American people blame now and blamed then the Pentagon and the Administration for putting those others of our people in harms way when they could only be party to a loss and could only be involved in upseting the equilibriums of world politics.

So judging by these photos youre saying it would be ok (hypothetically speakingof course) If the Dixie chicks went on a USO tour for insurgents?

http://www.1stcavmedic.com/jane_fonda.htm

You continue to make the mistake you always have in assuming you have the right or the ability to declare what I think.

You have never been right in the past, so it is to my infinite surprise, that you are wrong again. I really though you would learn.

I personally think the Dixie chicks are not only beautiful in body, but in mind and politic too. I once only enjoyed their music, now I admire their partiotism.

I once enjoyed the humor of Dennis Miller, but I can't stomach his anti-american fascism anymore.

Once again... i was "hypothetically speaking" and fail to see how her commiserating with the North helped the soldiers...

On November 21, 1970 she told a University of Michigan audience of some two thousand students, "If you understood what communism was, you would hope, you would pray on your knees that we would some day become communist." At Duke University in North Carolina she repeated what she had said in Michigan, adding "I, a socialist, think that we should strive toward a socialist society, all the way to communism. "

Did she or she she not make these statements? Do you agree with these statements?
 
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
Gee bdgee never knew the French were in Vietnam. Thought we were talking about the United States involvement, not the French. I never saw a french mansion or rubber trees. Bdgee our military is made up of the Army, Navy, Marines, Air Force, and Coast Guard, i am not sure what military you are talking about. A few soldiers and a few civilians make the decisions for a lot, but they still are all our military. Jane exercised her right to free speech and so have a lot of other people, you and her do not seem to like that. It seems to be only free speech when you and her speak, anyone else is a bigot or some of those other names you dig up and she uses. You are getting back to your name calling again. President Kennedy and Johnson were just in office to do what President Eisenhower told them. It was their obligation to keep building up the troops because Eisenhower had sent a few troops in and they had no power to do anything about it. Yea Right.
 
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
Vietnam POW's Interesting View on Jane FondaThought you might appreciate this mans views.
Unfortunately, too many of our servicemen can recount similar circumstances.
They all cannot be wrong. How quickly the American public forgets.

To whom it may concern:

I was a civilian economic development advisor in Viet Nam, and was captured by the North Vietnamese communists in South Viet Nam in 1968, and held for over 5 years. I spent 27 months in solitary confinement, one year in a cage in Cambodia, and one year in a "black box" in Hanoi. My north Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse in a leprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle near the Cambodian border. At on time, I was I was weighing approximately 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170 lbs.) We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals." When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political officer if I would be willing to meet with Jane Fonda. I said yes, for I would like to tell her about the real treatment we POW'S were receiving, which was far different from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by Jane Fonda, as "humane and lenient." Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on knees with outstretched arms with a piece of steel rebar placed on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane every time my arms dipped. Jane Fonda had the audacity to say that the POW's were lying about our torture and treatment. Now ABC is allowing Barbara Walters to honor Jane Fonda in her Feature "100 Years of Great Women." Shame, shame on Jane Fonda! Shame, shame on Barbara Walters! Shame, shame on 20-20. Shame, shame on ABC. And , shame, shame on the Disney Company. I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda for a couple of hours after I was released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She did not answer me, her husband, Tom Hayden, answered for her. She was mind controlled by her husband. This does not exemplify someone who should be honored as "100 Years of Great Women." After I was released, I was asked what I thought of Jane Fonda and the anti-war movement. I said that I held Joan Baez's husband in very high regard, for he thought the war was wrong, burned his draft card and went to prison in protest. If the other anti-war protestors took this same route, it would have brought our judicial system to a halt and ended the war much earlier, and there wouldn't be as many on that somber black granite wall called the Vietnam Memorial. This is democracy. This is the American way. Jane Fonda, on the other hand, chose to be a traitor, and went to Hanoi, wore their uniform, propagandized for the communists, and urged American soldiers to desert. As we were being tortured, and some of the POWs murdered, she called us liars. After her hero's - the North Vietnamese communists - took over South Vietnam, they systematically murdered 80,000 South Vietnamese political prisoners. May their souls rest on her head forever. Shame! Shame!

Respectfully,

Michael D. Benge
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
I really don't care why you are a narrow minded. You eagerly admit to it.

Is it ok to be a bigot because you believe in your cause? I have known several members of the KKK and each and every one of them absolutely believed in what they professed and absolutely refused to accept any other consideration, just as you do about Viet nam. They too claimed they had a right to trash the name and reputation of anyone opposed to their views. They too are bogots, no matter how fervantly they believe in their cause.

If you were a POW, I am sorry, but that DOES NOT AWARD to you a privilege of denegrating the Constitution by attacking those that exercise their Constitutional right for exercising thaat right.

It is sad and unfortunate that you were mistreated as a prisoner, but it is just as sad and even more unfortunate that North Vieet Namese and their supporters were subjected to torture and death at the hands of our military, which is not supposed to participate in that sort of thing. There IS NO EXCUES FOR THAT, even attempts to justify it by ballanceing it with the suffering you experienced is out of line.

We had no good reason to be in Viet Nam and having been among those that were assigned there by the Pentagon does not grant you special rights to hate and attack those who were not or who point out that we were wrong in that war, (any more than having been raised to believe that blacks and whites must be separated justiufies racil hatred, be that hatred toward black or white).


You are presenting an argument and demanding I and otherds allow it to you that exactly parallels that of any other bogot, but in your case, just against those that didn't get sent to Viet Nam rather than those of a different religion or race or nationality or whatever.

I believe I and the majority of the people are tired of being forced to hear constantly your hate and bias.

I point to this further correction of another falshood of your bigoted hatred. I have NOT at any time claimed that Kennedy or Johnson was free of guilt in the Viet Nam War, but I have, correctly pointed out that your blaming them entirely, is way off base. They followed the lead of Eisenhower and Nixon in supporting the north vietnamese. It was Eisenhower and Nixon who made the initiol committment of troops to Viet Nam.

Here is another: I volunteered for service in the to be sent to S.E., Asia during the Eisenhower administration. I did not go there because of decisions in the Pentagon. It was not my decision and for many years after I was incensed that I was denied that opportunity. So get off that holier than thou BS! Did you volunteer or just end up there without trying?
 
Posted by bond006 on :
 
What is the big deal if jane Fonda is now or was a commie I know that she rubbed shoulders with a lot of them in the peace movement.

Dose not make her one lots of other people did to some I have known are Bush supporters today

There is a lot of people that change all the time

I do know one thing if she was a real commie she would have never married Ted Turner that would have been like marrying the enemy to a real marxist.

I am not defending any of her actions but she was acting within her rights. Even when she went to Nort Viet Nam it was not illegal to do so.

You must also take into consideration the time she went the country had turned to about 80% against the war
 
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
No bdgee i was not a POW. I do feel bad that those that were and of course how they were awarded their right to that Geneva Convention you like to speak of. You sure make up things as you go, fill in the blanks. You and your free speech and your interpretation of the constitution. Again my statement was, I do not think the military failed.(weapons, soldiers)
The tactics that we used could not win that war, but many of the fights were won, speaking Militarily. Then you seem to have went into your free speech game.
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
I don't make up things.

There were no taxctics that would have made the U.S. able to win in Viet Nam, short of promissing (and proceding to follow up on that promise) to completely wipe out the entire population.

The facts I point out just don't happen to parallel your biases.

You do not bother to note that the interpretations I give to the Constitution are those traditionally placed there by the Courts. They are not "my interpretations of the Constitution" and different from the norm, as you so eagerly imply, they are ours, they are "the law", and they were determined by the Courts.

The military did fail in Viet Nam and your desire, however well meant, of insisting on a lack of failure and wanting to equate success there with a lack of ill intent of individual soldiers or their valient efforts by succeding in some isolated fights does not erase the fact. (In most cases, even the Pentagon and the Administration did not have any ill intent in its faulty efforts and interpretations of the war in Viet Nam, but then, the KKK thinks there is no ill intent in their desires for others. Of course, even today, there are places where, if put to a vote, the agenda of the Klan would prevail. Do you believe them to be right?)

THERE IS NO DISRESPECT OF THE SERVICE MEN THAT SERVED IN VIET NAM WHEN IT IS POINTED OUT THAT VIET NAM WAS WAS WRONG AND THE MILITARY FAILED IN REFUSING TO ACCEPT IT WAS AN UNWINNABLE WAR.

There is a lot of disrespect in refusing to allow others to have a different opinion than yours and calling or inferring shame or lack of patriotism on their behalf because you disagree with them.

No tactics could have won that war, because it was an invasion into the heridatary territories of a native and well established people. All such a people need to win is to not loose and they do not loose by refusing to concede. That is a thouroghly acceptd and understood and well tested war strategy.

You certainly do have the right to your opinion, but when that opinion is used as a basis to declare a falshood a fact and to belittle people that were not similarly biased and had the courage and honor to speak up and try to stop the absurd excesses of the Pentagon and the Administration, that goes a bit too far beyond being just an opinion (which you have a right to)and acting as an un-American instigator of denial if the rights granted by the Constitution.
 
Posted by IWISHIHAD on :
 
Quote Bdgee:
THERE IS NO DISRESPECT OF THE SERVICE MEN THAT SERVED IN VIET NAM WHEN IT IS POINTED OUT THAT VIET NAM WAS WAS WRONG AND THE MILITARY FAILED IN REFUSING TO ACCEPT IT WAS AN UNWINNABLE WAR.
_________________________________________________
So it appears by what you say that if this is not pointed out, that there is disrespect to Vietnam Veterans by you. Of course knowing who said it probably would not bother to many if any. Your interpretation of the constitution is what ever way you want to twist the law. You will you use the basic law and then state your interpretation using the law. Of course i do not have to explain this, many others have pointed this out in the past. One minute you tell me how wrong President Eisenhower and Nixon were to send advisors into Vietnam and how you knew this, but then next you say you volunteered to go but somehow they would not let you go to Vietnam, you cannot make up your mind. Then you go on to try and criticize me for not volunteering, which i had to laugh about, no bdgee i did not volunteer i went without trying. As far as battles in Vietnam, we won many more than we lost. (Took the ground that the enemy had) but we gave it back ,to take it again, not just isolated battles like you try and convince people of. Not that it really made any differance at that time or in the end. As far as what might have been done to change the course in Vietnam, who knows, we could only fight one way. I am not sure what we would do with it in the end if we would have won the war, because as soon as We are ready, we will open up Vietnam just like China, and pay big bucks for all that Agent Orange we sprayed over there, but not till a lot more Vietnam Vets are dead. Vietnam is another China waiting to happen and the imports will flock into the US. You sure know a lot about the KKK and what they do. Were you not a big supporter of George Wallace, in fact didn't you work on his campaign commitee? Again what Jane did in Hanoi went way beyond protesting, it appears that her actions caused physical harm to POWs which has been documented by many POWs.
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
You can't keep from being a pain. What your bias demands is that no one but you and the Klan and the RNC have any right to any opinion or any right to not march in lock step to the opinions of those.

You don't respect anything or anybody that doesn't wail far right extremism and hate.

What you demand goes way beyond differing in opinion, it appears that you profess actions to cause harm, even physical, to those that don't accept your manic drive to punish people you can't or won't understand and won't allow to have opinions different from your's.

You are driven by bias and hatrred.

Any respect for Viet Namese veterans has been wasted by you and your kind's insane drive to punish and destroy and silence.


"One minute you tell me how wrong President Eisenhower and Nixon were to send advisors into Vietnam and how you knew this, but then next you say you volunteered to go but somehow they would not let you go to Vietnam, you cannot make up your mind."

hahahahaha

If that is somehow contradictory to you, then you really are too simple minded to have any chance of being other than a bigot. Some of the guys I grew up with did go and never came back. Some others, like me were never sent, though they, like me, asked to go (and do what we were led to believe was in the cause of freedom) well before Kennedy was ever elected or even running. (There seems to be some question as to whether you ever took the effort, at any time, to request assignment in Viet Nam, during any administration. Maybe you sent were there without ever having requested to go there, as was the case wint most who went. Or were you "serving" with dubya in Dothan, perhaps, instead?)

I did not EVER say I knew they were wrong at that time. You need to stop spreading falshoods.

You silly complainer! Grow up. I've lost friends and relatives in wars all the way back tthrough the revolutions of two nations and I feel the loss of every one of them, even some that were on a side I would not have chosen.

War is not something one ever forgets or recovers from, completely. One learns about himself. It changes a person. But whatever side one is on in a war, only a fool CHOOSES to continue to hate long after the war is done.
 
Posted by Sunnyside on :
 
Bdgee

I've read your responses, criticisms, arrogance, name-calling, incessant hysteria, and downright mean spirited, hate filled responses to anyone voicing any opinion that conflicts with yours.

Call me what you will (and I know you will) but you sound like nothing more than an angry old coot with an axe to grind with the world for not seeing things your way, the only way, the right way, the one clear and constitutionally correct way.

You fail to actually "hear" what others are saying but rather misinterpret, twist, or incorrectly define what other are really saying to provide yourself with a reason to be nothing more than insulting. You seem to purposely (and I'm giving you credit for intelligence here) not get their point, whether you agree with it or not. I don't know whether you can't get their point because of your own blind rage or you just don't get their point. You seem to have an ability to block any meaningful discussions about anything by anyone with your unending hateful hysterical diatribes.

You're not the only one with opinions, perspectives on events or experiences that form those opinions and perspectives.

It is my impression from reading your posts that you spit on the constitution every time you open your mouth and disrespect someone else's opinion.

I find your posts to be getting more and more aggressive, censorious (which constitutionally you pretend to loath), and offensive.
 
Posted by rimasco on :
 
Wow...that looks like sunnyside-up to me.... [Big Grin]
 
Posted by bdgee on :
 
You have that right.

It is certainly not surprising that you would choose to not understand my position, as you have on several occasions spoken for preventing opinions differing from yours.

I loath your narrow mindedness and arbitrainess and fascism.

But having such opinions is your right. Pointing out those un-American attitudes and tendencies is my right and is the American way, in spite of your wanting that to not be true.
 


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