Mary Cheney, the lesbian daughter of Vice President Dick Cheney, has joined the board of a homosexual activist Republican group that seeks to make homosexuality a “non-issue” in the GOP and compares opposition to homosexuality to racism.
I couldn't agree more.
Posted by Team Sleep on :
How do you or this group define "opposition"?
Are you saying that if somebody vocally disagrees with that kind of lifestyle, that makes them a racist?
I hope that's not the intent here...
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
No, but the bigotry that often accompanies this type of "vocal disagreement" is comparable in both cases.
Posted by DWE on :
Homosexulity and racism are now the same thing, Tony Bennett? LOL!!!
Posted by Jelly on :
Being the way you are about people that are homosexuals makes you racist.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
No, but it takes intelligence to see the distinction so I understand your confusion.
quote:Originally posted by DWE: Homosexulity and racism are now the same thing, Tony Bennett? LOL!!!
Posted by DWE on :
quote:Originally posted by Jelly: Being the way you are about people that are homosexuals makes you racist.
How so? Read the website by clicking on the link. And if I'm a racist like you say I am, so is the Holy Bible, right?
Posted by DWE on :
Tony Bennett..... You're the one who is confused if you're straight or homosexual. No baby is "born gay".
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Except Dick Cheney's...
Posted by DWE on :
From the link above.....
The complementary structure of the male and female anatomy is obviously designed for the normal husband-wife relationships. Clearly, design in human biology supports heterosexuality and contradicts homosexuality.
The combination of male and female enables man (and the animals) to produce and nurture offspring as commanded in Genesis 1:28—'Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth'. This command is repeated to Noah after the Flood (Genesis 8:15-17). But procreation is not the only reason God made humans as sexual beings. The BUWA* report affirms 'that sexual intimacy between husband and wife is good, and is intended by God for bonding, pleasure and procreation.
Thirdly, God gave man and woman complementary roles in order to strengthen the family unit. Woman was to be the helper that man needed (Genesis 2:18). However, the woman's role as the helpmate is certainly not an inferior one. The enterprising God-fearing woman in Proverbs 31:10-31 is an inspiring role model.
*Baptist Union of Western Australia (BUWA)
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Here's another Christian Church that seems to agree with you, DWE.
The final report of the Baptist Union of Western Australia (BUWA) Task Force on Human Sexuality states 'that a person becomes a homosexual ultimately by "CHOOSING" to be involved in same-sex activity... This is in contrast to innate characteristics such as gender and ethnicity. The report affirms that 'the Bible is clear that sin involves choice, and it unequivocally condemns homosexual behavior as sin'.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
How do you explain Dick Cheney's lesbian daughter? Did he promote the practice?
Here's another Christian Church that seems to agree with you, DWE.
She wasn't "BORN" gay, that's for sure. No baby is "BORN" gay.
Posted by DWE on :
"a person becomes a homosexual ultimately by "CHOOSING" to be involved in same-sex activity"...
Again... No baby is "BORN" gay.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Interesting. It must have been all those flaming Republican queens she was exposed to as a child.
Posted by DWE on :
No. She must of been hanging around Dick Gephardt's lesbian kid too long. Cheney should of stopped them from being buddies for so long.
Posted by DWE on :
The foundational teaching on marriage and sexual issues is found in Genesis chapters 1 and 2. When Jesus was questioned about marriage, He referred to these 2 chapters (Matthew 19:1-12; Mark 10:1-12). Genesis teaches us that 'male and female He created them' (Genesis 1:27). We were created to a plan—male and female complementing each other. That is, God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve, nor Madam and Eve.
"MADAM AND EVE"!!! LMAO!
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
I'm glad your 'caps lock' button fixed itself.
Posted by DWE on :
A great example is "fallen" California politician, Michael Huffington. A wife (Ariana), kids, and to top it off, Huffington was a Republican as well. Then he goes and messes everything up because one day, he woke up and "CHOSE" to be gay.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Freedom of choice is the American way.
Posted by DWE on :
I guess he didn't care about his family enough.
Posted by LEO on :
DWE, although I honestly beleive you are the messenger sent ahead to announce the coming of the anti-christ, I have to admit
"MADAM AND EVE"!!! LMAO!
had me laughing pretty danged hard.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
He cared enough about them to stop living a lie. Freedom of choice is the American way.
Posted by DWE on :
Secular psychologists assure us that 'children raised in lesbian and gay households are similar to children raised in heterosexual households on characteristics such as intelligence, development, moral judgments, self-concepts, social competence and gender identity'.6 The humanists have, however, forgotten one important ingredient.
'Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old he will not depart from it' (Proverbs 22:6).
You cannot faithfully teach God's Word to your children while living a lifestyle specifically condemned by God's Word. All Christians are sinners forgiven by God's grace, but living in a homosexual relationship constitutes habitual, unrepented sin.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Look at Ronald Reagan's son. He's a liberal in spite of growing up in a conservative household. Freedom of choice is the American way.
Posted by jordanreed on :
you are wrong again Dino Martini.. people ARE born gay..just the way it is,.The chromasomes are distorted..Do you actually think people would make the choice to be shunned and ostrasized? Dont be so afraid of them...they cant make you gay. You have to be more tolerant of the differences in people..we all do..
Posted by DWE on :
LoL! Quit it Tony Bennett. You insist on challenging the Holy Scripture and you're badly falling behind to Satan's levels.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Wow, I gained close to $86,000 today! I think I'll send a donation to Planned Parenthood.
Posted by DWE on :
Anyway, I'm outta here. Going to grab me some lunch then pick my baby up from school. Can't wait to see my lil girl! Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Research by US psychologists suggests that 80 percent of men who are homophobic have secret homosexual feelings. This finding lends scientific support to the long-standing speculation that those who shout the loudest against homosexuality have something to hide.
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: you are wrong again Dino Martini.. people ARE born gay..just the way it is,.The chromasomes are distorted..Do you actually think people would make the choice to be shunned and ostrasized? Dont be so afraid of them...they cant make you gay. You have to be more tolerant of the differences in people..we all do..
Posted by Team Sleep on :
Gordon, I totally agree with you on that. Even though I do not agree with that lifestyle, it doesn't make me irrate or get me up in arms.
It seems like the most hardcore voices against homo's turn out to be gay. Just look at the former mayor of Spokane, WA.
He railed against homo's for years and then he got busted for his gayness. It was pretty funny...
Sometimes when people are disgusted by their own activities, they hide it, and strongly voice against it. It's a twisted psychological way of coping with the deeds they know in their heart are wrong.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Yep. It makes a lot of sense.
Posted by jordanreed on :
There is nothing WRONG with being homosexual or practicing it. It gets so tiring to hear these same antiquated arguements. It aint goin away..its here to stay..because its natural. For someone who is gay to try to be straight?..Now THAT is wrong and unnatural
Posted by Team Sleep on :
I agree that it is a pointless argument. Love it or hate, there will always be gay people roaming the earth.
Posted by DWE on :
'Liberal' churches espouse tolerance of homosexual behavior in the name of 'love'. They plug for the acceptance of homosexual conduct as normal, 'because they can't help it'. They are not only wrong about the latter, but they are actually not being at all loving towards homosexuals, because, contrary to the Bible, they reduce the homosexual person to the level of an animal, driven by instinct. In removing moral responsibility from the person, they dehumanize them, whereas the Bible says we are made in the image of God (Genesis 1:26-27), with the power of moral choice.
Posted by DWE on :
This cheeseburger is GOOOOOOOOD!!! Posted by jordanreed on :
humans are made in the image of god.. Homosexuals are human.. Homosexuals are made in the image of god.. hmmm
Posted by Upside on :
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: humans are made in the image of god.. Homosexuals are human.. Homosexuals are made in the image of god.. hmmm
God's a homo?
Posted by DWE on :
According to Jordan Knight, God is.....
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by Upside:
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: humans are made in the image of god.. Homosexuals are human.. Homosexuals are made in the image of god.. hmmm
God's a homo?
Silly question, Upside. There are other possibilities. Consider:
We can have that God isn't homosexual and there are other Gods that are female for God to ------, God messes around with human chicks, or God is autosexual.
The possibility that God is a-sexual (that's not the same as autosexual) is proved false because God made man in his own image and man is definitely a sexual beast.
Posted by DWE on :
Oh Badgedee..... Time and time again, you prove to me that not only do you hate America, but you also hate God. Blee Blah.
Posted by jordanreed on :
there is no god...silly superstitious kids!!
Posted by DWE on :
Right..... Just like there were no New Kids on the Block, right, "Jordan Knight"???
Posted by jordanreed on :
what are new kids on the block?
Posted by DWE on :
You're in that fantastically sassy band, "Jordan Knight"!
Posted by bdgee on :
Have you ever noticed that dweeb cannot relate to anything unless he compares it or them to something from some soap opera or sitcom?
Damn, that must be a boring life!
Posted by DWE on :
Well, almost 3:30. Time to pick up the my baby from school. As a Texan would say, "I "cain't" wait to see my baby girl"!!!
Posted by jordanreed on :
quote:Originally posted by DWE: You're in that fantastically sassy band, "Jordan Knight"!
I'm not sure what youre trying to say...guess i dont know music as well as you
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
God's a hetero?
quote:Originally posted by Upside: God's a homo?
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Research by US psychologists suggests that 80 percent of men who are homophobic (like DWE), have secret homosexual feelings. This finding lends scientific support to the long-standing speculation that those who shout the loudest against homosexuality have something to hide.
Posted by Upside on :
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: God's a hetero?
quote:Originally posted by Upside: God's a homo?
God goes both ways?
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
God's bi-curious?
Posted by bdgee on :
Yep, God can do whatever or however he pleases and, thus far, he hasn't bbothered to ask permission of dweeb or TS before deciding what it will be.
Posted by DWE on :
God's gonna send you straight down to hell because you just called God a queer! So for your sake, not mine, you better say "I'm sorry" to God before you go to sleep tonight. BOTH OF YOU(S)!
Posted by jordanreed on :
hells more fun!!
Posted by DWE on :
LoL! You say that now... You just wait when it's really time to go.....
Posted by jordanreed on :
Im soo excited Posted by DWE on :
And Jordon Knight..... When you DO go, you're NOT gonna hear anyone singing,
"Everybody have fun tonight... Everybody "Wang Chung" tonight"!!!
-One Hit Wonder 1980s Group, "Wang Chung"-
Posted by Jelly on :
Actually you're wrong, God is homosapien.
Posted by DWE on :
quote:Originally posted by DWE: God's gonna send you straight down to hell because you just called God a queer! So for your sake, not mine, you better say "I'm sorry" to God before you go to sleep tonight. BOTH OF YOU(S)!
Did you say your sorrys to God yet for calling Him a queer?
Posted by bdgee on :
Actually, I don't care if God is queer or white or female or shaped like a big juicy tomato. It isn't my job to care or even wonder. And it isn't my job to listen to idiots that can't understand what the bible says.
So, you ask what my job is? That is not your concern and not your job and none of your business. So far as who is going to hell and who isn't, that too isn't your business and you need to tend to your own activities instead of everyone else's.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by DWE: Oh Badgedee..... Time and time again, you prove to me that not only do you hate America, but you also hate God. Blee Blah.
whatsamatter DWE did he confuse you agqain? LOL...
a friendly word of advice? you have now given out your name, your companies name, and your childs name online...
that's not too bright there son....
Posted by DWE on :
Badgedee: So, you ask what my job is?
DWE: Nope. Never did and don't care.
Glassman: That's not too bright there son.....
DWE: WHO CARES! IT'S A CHATBOX, REMEMBER!?!?
DWE: Don't take internet chatboxes so seriously, okay? I don't!
Posted by DWE on :
Yeah. My name is Dean, my kid's name is Samantha... HOW ARE YOU? Care to introduce yourself? SO WHAT??? I'm not a lil PUSSY(cat) like all of you!
Posted by bdgee on :
Agreed, you are a loudmouth.
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by DWE: Yeah. My name is Dean, my kid's name is Samantha... HOW ARE YOU? Care to introduce yourself? SO WHAT??? I'm not a lil PUSSY(cat) like all of you!
yeah right..... you probably work for the DNC and are a "plant" to make the GOP's look like buffoons.. Posted by DWE on :
Damn... BUSTED! Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Since you're confessing, research by US psychologists suggests that 80 percent of men who are homophobic (like you, DWE), have secret homosexual feelings. This finding lends scientific support to the long-standing speculation that those who shout the loudest against homosexuality have something to hide.
Why not just admit it, DWE?
Posted by DWE on :
Why not admit YOU ARE a HOMOSEXUAL since you LOVE San Francisco so much and you're such a HUGE gay supporter, oh and before I forget, and you HATE America and HATE straight people.
Posted by Opethian on :
DWE, You should really update your references. How can you get your arguments from a source that's CLEARLY biased to be homophobic (=> religious nutbags). Gays are perfectly normal, some aren't, the same counts for straight people. Now, if you actually got to know a few gay people, you'd realize how wrong you are, and how prejudiced you are. In another post you say how gays are the filth of this world, that's like talking sh*t about left-handed people, or very tall/very short people, because believe it or not, that is a perfect analogy, in that you DON'T CHOOSE what gender you're attracted to, just like you don't choose to be left or right handed, or to be tall or short. The only thing you choose as a gay man/woman is to either be yourself and be happy, doing what is natural to you, or live a lie and marry someone of the opposite sex and be unhappy and frustrated the rest of your life. You wouldn't choose to be with a guy because that's not natural to you, right? Right, because you can't help being attracted to women (assuming you're a man), you've NEVER made a conscious decision to be attracted to women. You just are! The same counts for gays, they can't help being attracted to the same sex!
Right, well thank you for attending our TOLERANCE 101 class, now please stop spewing your hatred towards gays, we get it, you don't like 'em, let it go already! Do you have any idea how offensive you are sometimes? ... and then the allmighty said "thou shallt not judge" ... lol I'm laughing because, well, you're probably the most judgemental person I've ever seen on this board. You see DWE, what God really meant with that one line is, "BE NICE TO EACH OTHER!!!". That's something to think about because it looks like you have a hard time doing that. Now don't give me the "YOU'RE GAY" comments, that's only offensive to you, not to me.
Also, what "lifestyle" is this you guys keep talking about? What exactly is a gay "lifestyle"? I'm seriously wondering. Is it getting up, eating breakfast, going to work (or trading ), hanging out with friends, going to bed? Doesn't seem that much different from the heterosexual "lifestyle" to me lol
Posted by Opethian on :
quote:Originally posted by DWE: God's gonna send you straight down to hell because you just called God a queer! So for your sake, not mine, you better say "I'm sorry" to God before you go to sleep tonight. BOTH OF YOU(S)!
LOL like powerless slaves to an almighty dictator! DON'T MESS WITH THE BIG BOSS UPSTAIRS OR BURN!! hmm, so wait, God can't take a few jokes? So he punishes those who tell them to hell? We should only say nice things about him? Is he really that insecure? Or perhaps just narcissistic :-O that's a little bit "gay" don't you think? Posted by glassman on :
according to the Bible? even Jesus questioned God....
BTW Opethian? we are pretty sure DWE has a "secret attraction" to the same sex...most gay bashers do... that's what motivates them...
Posted by jordanreed on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: according to the Bible? even Jesus questioned God....
BTW Opethian? we are pretty sure DWE has a "secret attraction" to the same sex...most gay bashers do... that's what motivates them...
but its ok that he's gay...i just feel sorry that his family has to suffer his dilemma
Posted by bond006 on :
DWE why is the gay issue so important to you? It really is a minor issue in our country. There is really no bigger percentage of gays in our country than there ever was. As far as a moral issue a Christian has to follow what is in the bible but there is nothing in the bible that says these people should be hated and there is nothing that says in our laws that the gays should not be equal before the law. As a christian gay is a lfe style that is not for me but a gay is always welcome in my church to listen to the word of God. I hope you are not the type of man that would harm these people because they are different.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
I think we're suffering more...
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed:
quote:Originally posted by glassman: according to the Bible? even Jesus questioned God....
BTW Opethian? we are pretty sure DWE has a "secret attraction" to the same sex...most gay bashers do... that's what motivates them...
but its ok that he's gay...i just feel sorry that his family has to suffer his dilemma
Posted by DWE on :
But that's the only "defense" a liberal can make and that is to accuse a Straight, Conservative Republican male that he is gay. That's because liberals are usually "brainless" and can't come up with anything better. It's nothing new..... C'mon... Sleep on it and come up with something better tomorrow. You can do better than that.
Posted by glassman on :
An even lower form of life than the spod, found in much the same habitat as the former. though more prevailent on talker systems. Unlike spods, upon receiving the desired response to the question "Are you male or female?", dweebs will then engage upon a detailed description of themselves and how wonderful they are, often in the hopes of truly impressing the other with their "charm" and "wit". Nearly all dweebs are male, but very few actually live up to the image that they present. Dweebs, unfortunately, are often the cause of ill-will, and may well bring a bad reputation to the system in question. They are often, however, easy to wind up and can be the source of great mirth to the seasoned user."
Posted by Ramius on :
quote:Originally posted by jordanreed: There is nothing WRONG with being homosexual or practicing it. It gets so tiring to hear these same antiquated arguements. It aint goin away..its here to stay..because its natural. For someone who is gay to try to be straight?..Now THAT is wrong and unnatural
Here's all my comments on this topic...
To be Gay is not natural. If it's natural Jordan...when's the last time you stuck your wang in another man? Bottom line, the parts don't fit. "Nature" doesn't design processes that don't work.
I have known several gay's, men and women, in my life. They all have one thing in common...some type of major dysfunction in their home life when they were kids. In gay women there is almost always a history of some type of abuse. I don't believe they chose to be gay(who would choose that?) They had some missing element or unhealthy element in their upbringing that led them toward a gay lifestyle...an abandonment of interest in the opposite sex.
A gay co-worker of mine in his 40's, very educated, told me once while we were at lunch about his childhood and the "neglect" of his father from entire family. His father never did anything with them, and didn't show any affection to his mom. He actually said, "I think if my dad had thrown a baseball with me once in a while things may have turned out much different". This same co-worker has child with a gay woman. He is furious with the woman because she has been teaching their daughter, who is 11 now, to fear men. She actually told her daughter to live life "assuming all men want to hurt you". She tells the poor girl, "every man I ever loved abandoned me". Again, an unhealthy upbringing that could, and probably will, drive this girl to lesbianism.
Another gay friend of mine used to tell me what is huge wimp his dad is, and that his mom runs the show all the time.
As for the "Biblical" take on homosexuality. I would love to see someone try to make a valid stance that being gay is OK with God.
Jordan, there is something wrong with it. It's evidence of hurt, pain and wrong doing in our society. Most homosexuals have a sad story to tell about pain and abuse, and due to their hurt they now will live a lifestyle in which most relationships last less than two months and most of those relationships never amount to anything more than sexual rendevous. That's sounds wrong to me.
Of the handfull of gay's I have known NONE of them are happy, and "wish" things had been different.
Disclaimer...I don't want anyone yelling at me. This is my opinion based on experience with people I know. Note my use of the words "most, and "probably". I don't claim to know everything about everyone.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Research by US psychologists suggests that 80 percent of men who are homophobic have secret homosexual feelings. This finding lends scientific support to the long-standing speculation that those who shout the loudest against homosexuality have something to hide.
Posted by jordanreed on :
I stand by what I said.. As for your God comment of what he wishes?... God is not human or even a living thing..therefore there is no thought or wishing goin on...god is an abstract concept,made up by humans,for humans that is MY belief
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
God is a concept by which we measure our pain. -John Lennon
Posted by canadadry on :
Since homosexuals has been around longer then the bible and the bible is just a book written by some peasants 2000 years ago I think I will take science over a fairy tell book and leave the gays too themselves.
Posted by jordanreed on :
peasants who drank a lot of wine and had visions and heard things...lots of spare time to write lots of stories...
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Gays should have the same rights as any other couple.
Posted by Team Sleep on :
A book written by peasants? There is much science the Bible. In fact, the Bible claimed things like: the earth revolves around the sun, that life is in the blood. If people would have paid closer attention to the Bible, there would never have been things like blood-letting, or being murdered because you didn't think the sun revolved around the earth...
Many of the Jewish dietary laws laid out in the Bible are just good scientific health facts that we can still use today.
Even if you disregard all the spiritual stuff, there is much solid, valid science in the Bible.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
According to biblical "science", the earth was created 3 days before the sun, the moon and the stars...
Scientists say there are many stars whose light takes millions of years to reach the earth. How, then, could they be 6,000 to 8,000 years old as many Christians allege?
Posted by Dustoff101 on :
Gordon, my Mother tought me as a young boy, that God has his own time table....
Mortals make the numbers, not God.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
My point exactly. It's not scientific.
Posted by Team Sleep on :
In Christian cirlcles, there is much debate whether the earth and the universe was created in 7 24-hour days.
The Bible says that God is a God or order and design. But the Bible is also clear that God does not work on man's time table. It's hard for our minds to think how things could be with the absense of time.
I have no explanation for the star thing. In my mind, if God had the power to create the stars, he had the power to let their light shine to earth immediately even though they were billions of miles away. In Genesis he said he created the stars for light. According to scripture, it would appear as if there light upon the earth was instantanious.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
God can change physics? Maybe, but that throws all scientific argument out the window.
Posted by ruthie on :
Ramius;;;
Good Post.....
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Have something to hide, Ruthie?
Posted by ruthie on :
to Gordon ,,,
No, not a thing. If I think a post is a good one, I let them know.....
Posted by ruthie on :
to Gordon ,,,
No, not a thing. If I think a post is a good one, I let them know.....
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
What's good about it?
Posted by Team Sleep on :
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: God can change physics? Maybe, but that throws all scientific argument out the window.
Again, I am not equipped to really engage in this topic about creation vs. evolution.
I realize the idea of a supernatural being creating the world and everything in it is completely hard to grasp or believe or even consider. I'm not going to argue that or argue that people should believe in Biblical creation.
Posted by Upside on :
An even lower form of life than the spod, found in much the same habitat as the former. though more prevailent on talker systems. Unlike spods, upon receiving the desired response to the question "Are you male or female?", dweebs will then engage upon a detailed description of themselves and how wonderful they are, often in the hopes of truly impressing the other with their "charm" and "wit". Nearly all dweebs are male, but very few actually live up to the image that they present. Dweebs, unfortunately, are often the cause of ill-will, and may well bring a bad reputation to the system in question. They are often, however, easy to wind up and can be the source of great mirth to the seasoned user."
That's just....unbelievable. If you hadn't provided a link I'd have sworn you made that up. That's just too fitting of a description. Especially the "wind up" part. Just amazing.
Posted by bdgee on :
Yep....ain't it amazing how truth will out?
Posted by Upside on :
"Easy to wind up and can be the source of great mirth". That part really had me laughing. Like I said, that description is spot on. So if someone here calls him a "spod", they're actually elevating hin somewhat, right?
Posted by glassman on :
the only "scientific" evidence avilable to support the biblical Creation story is that life is so complex that it couldn't have happened by accident...
unfortunately? as you review the background of the scientist who profess this "theory" you find they mostly have degrees from religious colleges and universities or were raised to believe the creation story before they ever went to college.
in other words? ther is no scientific basis to argue that Creationism is a valid scientific theory...
the only valid argument against eveolution is that we haven't documented it... since it is a very slow process? and the "scientific method" has only been around since about 1200 AD? it's gonna be a while till it can be proved...
we have a lot of solid evidence in the fossil record... dinosaurs to birds is alock... we have thousands of "intermediate" specimens in fossil form...
natural selection is not a theory we know it works....
Posted by Team Sleep on :
Whether the earth was formed by a bang, meteor collision, cosmic mutating organisms, etc., this material would have had to been created somewhere, sometime, by something.
If man came from a gooey puddle of gunk or fell out of trees as apes, this "life" had to have had a powerful force or element that created it.
Posted by Ramius on :
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: According to biblical "science", the earth was created 3 days before the sun, the moon and the stars...
Scientists say there are many stars whose light takes millions of years to reach the earth. How, then, could they be 6,000 to 8,000 years old as many Christians allege?
Most Christians allege that the earth and stars are only 6,000-8,000 years old because chronologically if you count the years back through the generations of people you arrive at approximately 8,000 years to Adam and Eve--and it is assumed that God made the Earth, etc, right before he put Adam and Eve on it.
As a Christian, my point of view isn't that popular among "Christian circles", but I believe that there is a huge time gap between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
BIG GAP
Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was formless and void, darkness was over the surface of the deep and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
Verse two in itself could be a huge study in Hebrew(what are the waters? What is the deep? If God created the earth in verse 1, then why is is formless and void in verse 2?), but anyway....the word "Now" could indicate a time change far away from "In the beginning".
I believe the earth is millions of years old as science would suggest...but don't tell my friends Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by Team Sleep: Whether the earth was formed by a bang, meteor collision, cosmic mutating organisms, etc., this material would have had to been created somewhere, sometime, by something.
If man came from a gooey puddle of gunk or fell out of trees as apes, this "life" had to have had a powerful force or element that created it.
i agree absolutely.... you don't get sumpm from nuttn'...
i do have a hard time with the image of an old man with a long white beard tho... Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
True. I also have a hard time with the image of God as a sexual being, as some here apparently believe he/she/it is.
Posted by bdgee on :
I think "Most Christians allege that the earth and stars are only 6,000-8,000 years old..." is an incorrect statement. I don't mean it is am intentionally incorrect statement and I blieve had it been worded as "Many Christians....." rather than "Most Christians...." it probably would have both been a correct statement and carried the actual thought of the author closer.
In my experience, though many Christians want literal interpretations of the bible, MOST Christians have long understood that what we know in modern times as the bible probably suffers from selective editing and biased translation enough that whatever was there those thousands of years ago is "liteerally" not now there to literally interpret.
Posted by canadadry on :
The funny thing is that everyone is just guessing and there is no hard evidence that there is a god, so until I die I will just live my life to its fullest and not worry about religion or faith and just focus on the forward progress of all man kind, together and not bickering about some stupid stories in a book or religion.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
For what it's worth, I said 'many'...
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: I think "Most Christians allege that the earth and stars are only 6,000-8,000 years old..." is an incorrect statement. I don't mean it is am intentionally incorrect statement and I blieve had it been worded as "Many Christians....." rather than "Most Christians...." it probably would have both been a correct statement and carried the actual thought of the author closer.
In my experience, though many Christians want literal interpretations of the bible, MOST Christians have long understood that what we know in modern times as the bible probably suffers from selective editing and biased translation enough that whatever was there those thousands of years ago is "liteerally" not now there to literally interpret.
Posted by bdgee on :
quote:Originally posted by Team Sleep: Whether the earth was formed by a bang, meteor collision, cosmic mutating organisms, etc., this material would have had to been created somewhere, sometime, by something.
If man came from a gooey puddle of gunk or fell out of trees as apes, this "life" had to have had a powerful force or element that created it.
Yeah, it's called entrophy.
Posted by bdgee on :
Gordon, I didn't see that you had said such a thing or anything close. Looking back through the thread, I still can't see where that might have been. If I'm over looking one from you, accept my apology and that I jmust missed it.
Never-the-less, the post from which I cut and pasted is indeed in the thread.
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Not a problem. Here's my original post...
Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: According to biblical "science", the earth was created 3 days before the sun, the moon and the stars...
Scientists say there are many stars whose light takes millions of years to reach the earth. How, then, could they be 6,000 to 8,000 years old as many Christians allege?
Posted by BuyTex on :
ahhh...
reasonable discussion
Posted by Gordon Bennett on :
Peaceful, ain't it?
Posted by BuyTex on :
I'd compare it to a thorn being pulled...
lol, but that's too much an understatement
Posted by bdgee on :
Peaceful and informative. Look at that new thread from Glass...
"Record Set for Hottest Temperature on Earth: 3.6 Billion Degrees in Lab "
Posted by glassman on :
quote:Originally posted by bdgee: Peaceful and informative. Look at that new thread from Glass...
"Record Set for Hottest Temperature on Earth: 3.6 Billion Degrees in Lab "
i didn't start it, but i'm glad Gordon did...
it may be another dead end here...but something NEW has definitely been discovered..... and it may very well be a major step forward in safe "nukular" energy....
Posted by Team Sleep on :
quote:Originally posted by Ramius:
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: According to biblical "science", the earth was created 3 days before the sun, the moon and the stars...
Scientists say there are many stars whose light takes millions of years to reach the earth. How, then, could they be 6,000 to 8,000 years old as many Christians allege?
Most Christians allege that the earth and stars are only 6,000-8,000 years old because chronologically if you count the years back through the generations of people you arrive at approximately 8,000 years to Adam and Eve--and it is assumed that God made the Earth, etc, right before he put Adam and Eve on it.
As a Christian, my point of view isn't that popular among "Christian circles", but I believe that there is a huge time gap between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
BIG GAP
Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was formless and void, darkness was over the surface of the deep and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
Verse two in itself could be a huge study in Hebrew(what are the waters? What is the deep? If God created the earth in verse 1, then why is is formless and void in verse 2?), but anyway....the word "Now" could indicate a time change far away from "In the beginning".
I believe the earth is millions of years old as science would suggest...but don't tell my friends
With Exodus 20:11 saying "For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is…" how do you explain this in regards to the Gap idea?
I think one reason many Christians claim the earth is only about 8,000 years old is because we don't have any real historical artifacts or evidences that date beyond that.
Evolutionists claim man turned from apes about 100,000 years ago. I just find it hard to believe that no physical evidence from the first 90,000 or so years has been discovered.
Posted by glassman on :
i beleive every "myth" has a core of truth in it... ever play "telephone" in grade school?
one person whispers something written down in anothers ear, by the time it gets thru twenty people? it isn't the same, but it's often close...
Western Civilisation, or more accurately, AGRICULTURAL CIVILIZATION has its roots in the Biblical area just about 8000 years ago.....
i also belive there are older civilisations that just didn't make it for one reason or another...
the 20- 30,000 yr old cave paintings at Lascaux indicate a very complex social community... not only is the art itself impressively executed? but think about how many people had to work together to clothe, feed, supply, and put each artist to work in those caves....
Posted by glassman on :
Source: University Of California - Berkeley
Posted: June 12, 2003 160,000-year-old Fossilized Skulls From Ethiopia Are Oldest Modern Humans
Berkeley -- The fossilized skulls of two adults and one child discovered in the Afar region of eastern Ethiopia have been dated at 160,000 years, making them the oldest known fossils of modern humans, or Homo sapiens.
The skulls, dug up near a village called Herto, fill a major gap in the human fossil record, an era at the dawn of modern humans when the facial features and brain cases we recognize today as human first appeared. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/06/030612090827.htm Posted by BuyTex on :
quote:Originally posted by Team Sleep:
quote:Originally posted by Ramius:
quote:Originally posted by Gordon Bennett: According to biblical "science", the earth was created 3 days before the sun, the moon and the stars...
Scientists say there are many stars whose light takes millions of years to reach the earth. How, then, could they be 6,000 to 8,000 years old as many Christians allege?
Most Christians allege that the earth and stars are only 6,000-8,000 years old because chronologically if you count the years back through the generations of people you arrive at approximately 8,000 years to Adam and Eve--and it is assumed that God made the Earth, etc, right before he put Adam and Eve on it.
As a Christian, my point of view isn't that popular among "Christian circles", but I believe that there is a huge time gap between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
BIG GAP
Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was formless and void, darkness was over the surface of the deep and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
Verse two in itself could be a huge study in Hebrew(what are the waters? What is the deep? If God created the earth in verse 1, then why is is formless and void in verse 2?), but anyway....the word "Now" could indicate a time change far away from "In the beginning".
I believe the earth is millions of years old as science would suggest...but don't tell my friends
With Exodus 20:11 saying "For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is…" how do you explain this in regards to the Gap idea?
I think one reason many Christians claim the earth is only about 8,000 years old is because we don't have any real historical artifacts or evidences that date beyond that.
Evolutionists claim man turned from apes about 100,000 years ago. I just find it hard to believe that no physical evidence from the first 90,000 or so years has been discovered.
Team, the 8k years comes from, as I recall, biblical scholars' computing the numbers of generations mentioned, ie, the "begats" . . .
As I understand evolution, no direct lineage to "apes" required, but probably some common rootstock way back there.
The thing about the fossil record is the gaps...statistically, a given organism ("species") needs to be stable enough for many generations to "get recorded." God only knows how many "experiments" popped up for several (or perhaps several hundred) generations that didn't make it into the record.
Often overlooked, even by "scientists," are the periods of magnetic reversal, when the "north" pole becomes the "south" pole, so to speak. During the reversal, there would be a period of little to no magnetic field--which provides a buffer against radiation. Who knows what number of mutations might be engendered during these periods of heightened radiation? Yet, geologically speaking, they do not last long...
Anyway, lottsa gaps in the fossil record.
Posted by Team Sleep on :
quote:Originally posted by glassman: Source: University Of California - Berkeley
Posted: June 12, 2003 160,000-year-old Fossilized Skulls From Ethiopia Are Oldest Modern Humans
Berkeley -- The fossilized skulls of two adults and one child discovered in the Afar region of eastern Ethiopia have been dated at 160,000 years, making them the oldest known fossils of modern humans, or Homo sapiens.
The skulls, dug up near a village called Herto, fill a major gap in the human fossil record, an era at the dawn of modern humans when the facial features and brain cases we recognize today as human first appeared. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2003/06/030612090827.htm
I guess I stand corrected.
Posted by glassman on :
LOL, "corrected"? i didn't know it was that far back 'till i looked it up for ya... i was thinking 90 to 100K also....
some of the most recent scientific "speculation" that i've seen suggests we may have undergone a mutation in the last 40 to 50k years that allowed us to think differently... it involves speaking/hearing ability and right-left brain communication thru the corpus callosum....
some suggest another one occurred about 15,000 years ago...
in other words? we ain't "done" yet....
Posted by Team Sleep on :
If there's truly an evolutionary process still happening, how is drug use effecting this process?
Science has documented that drugs such as cocaine, meth, ecstacy, etc. have dramatic physiologic effects on those who abuse these drugs.
And children of parents who are addicted to these types of drugs have a physiological propencity to become dependent as well.
Take meth heads for example, even after just a year of casual use, the brain of the meth head starts becoming very similar a person with schizophrenia. Meth changes physical features as well.
So, how do drugs factor into the process?
Posted by BuyTex on :
mutation needs to provide an advantage to stand much of a chance to become stabilized...
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hmm, so wait, God can't take a few jokes? So he punishes those who tell them to hell? We should only say nice things about him? Is he really that insecure? Or perhaps just narcissistic :-O that's a little bit "gay" don't you think?