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Posted by tigertony on :
 
WWIII

In case you missed it, World War III began in November 1979...
That alarm has been ringing for years.

U.S. Navy Captain Ouimette is the Executive Officer at Naval Air
Station,
Pensacola, Florida. Here is a copy of the speech he gave last month. It
is
an accurate account of why we are in so much trouble today and why this
action is so necessary.

AMERICA NEEDS TO WAKE UP!
That's what we think we heard on the 11th of September, 2001, (When
more than 3,000 Americans were killed) and maybe it was, but I think it
should
have been "Get Out of Bed!"
In fact, I think the alarm clock has been buzzing since 1979 and we
have
>continued to hit the snooze button and roll over for a few more minutes
ofpeaceful sleep since then.
It was a cool fall day in November, 1979, in a country going through a
religious and political upheaval when a group of Iranian students
attacked and seized the American Embassy in Tehran.
This seizure was an outright attack on American soil; it was an attack
thatheld the world's most powerful country hostage and paralyzed a
Presidency.

The attack on this sovereign U. S. embassy set the stage for events to
follow for the next 23 years.

America was still reeling from the aftermath of the Vietnam experience
and had a serious threat from the Soviet Union when then, President Carter,
had to do something.

He chose to conduct a clandestine raid in the desert. The ill-fated
mission ended in ruin, but stood as a symbol of America's inability to
deal with terrorism.

America's military had been decimated and downsized/right-sized since
the end of the Vietnam War. A poorly trained, poorly equipped and poorly
organized military was called on to execute a complex mission that was
doomed from the start.

Shortly after the Tehran experience, Americans began to be kidnapped and
killed throughout the Middle East.

America could do little to protect her citizens living and working
abroad.
The attacks against U.S. soil continued.

In April of 1983, a large vehicle packed with high explosives was driven
into the U.S. Embassy compound in Beirut. When it exploded, it killed 63
people.

The alarm went off again and
America hit the Snooze Button once more.

Then just six short months later a large truck heavily laden down with
over 2,500 pounds of TNT smashed through the main gate of the U.S. Marine
Corps headquarters in Beirut and 241 U.S. servicemen are killed. America
mourns her dead and hit the Snooze Button once more.

Two months later in December, 1983, another truck loaded with explosives
is driven into the U.S. Embassy in Kuwait, and America continues her
slumber.

The following year, in September, 1984, another van was driven into the
gate of the U.S. Embassy in Beirut and America slept.

Soon the terrorism spreads to Europe. In April, 1985, a bomb explodes in
a restaurant frequented by US soldiers in Madrid.

Then in August a Volkswagen loaded with explosives is driven into the
main gate of the US Air Force Base at Rhein-Main. 22 are killed and the
Snooze Alarm is buzzing louder and louder as U.S. interests are continually
attacked.

Fifty-nine days later a cruise ship, the Achille Lauro, is hijacked and
we watched as an American in a wheelchair is singled out of the passenger
list and executed.

The terrorists then shift their tactics to bombing civilian airliners--
>when they bomb TWA Flight 840 in April of 1986, that killed 4 and the
most tragic bombing, Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland in 1988,
killing 259.

Clinton treated these terrorist acts as crimes!
In fact we are still trying to bring
these people to trial.
These are acts of war!

The Wake-Up Alarm is getting louder and louder.
The terrorists decide to bring the fight to America. In January 1993, 2
CIA agents are shot and killed as they enter CIA headquarters in Langley,
Virginia.

The following month, February, 1993, a group of terrorists are arrested
after a rented van packed with explosives is driven into the underground
parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City. Six people
are killed and over 1000 are injured.

Still this is a crime and
not an act of war?
The Snooze Alarm is depressed again.
Then in November, 1995, a car bomb explodes at a U.S. military complex
in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, killing seven service men and women.

A few months later in June of 1996, another truck bomb explodes only 35
yards from the U.S. military compound in Dhahran, Saudi Arabia. It
destroys the Khobar Towers, a US Air Force barracks, killing 19 and injuring over
500.

The terrorists are getting braver and smarter as they see that America
does not respond decisively.

They move to coordinate their attacks in a simultaneous attack on two US
embassies in Kenya and Tanzania. These attacks were planned with
precision.

They kill 224
America responds with cruise missile attacks and goes back to sleep.(That might have killed a camel)
The U.S.S. Cole was docked in the port of Aden, Yemen, for refueling on
12 October 2000, when a small craft pulled along side the ship and exploded
killing 17 US Navy Sailors.
Attacking a U.S. War Ship is an act of war, but we sent the FBI to investigate the crime and went back to sleep.

And of course you know the events of 11 September, 2001.

Most Americans think this was the first attack against U.S. soil or in
America. How wrong they are.

America has been under a constant attack since 1979 and we chose to hit theSnooze Alarm and roll over and go back to sleep.

In the news lately we have seen lots of finger pointing from many high
officials in government over what they knew and what they didn't know.

But if you've read the papers and paid a little attention, I think you can see exactly what they knew.

You don't have to be in the FBI or CIA or on the National Security Council to see the pattern that has been developing since 1979.

The President is right on when he says we are engaged in a war.

I think we have been in a war
for the past 23 years and
it will continue until
we as a people
decide enough is enough.
America needs to "Get out of Bed" and act decisively now.
America has been changed forever.

We have to be ready to pay the price and make the sacrifice to ensure
our way of life continues.

We cannot afford to keep hitting the Snooze Button again and again and
roll over and go back to sleep.

After the attack on Pearl Harbor,
Admiral Yamamoto said,
"...it seems all we have done
is awakened a sleeping giant."
This is the message we need to disseminate
to terrorists around the world.

This is not a political thing to be hashed over in an election year =
this is an AMERICAN thing!

This is about our Freedom and the Freedom of our children in years to
come.

Time To Wake Up !!

 


Posted by glassman on :
 
tony, you need to get more sleep....
WW3 is over this one is WW4...LOL
 
Posted by Art on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
tony, you need to get more sleep....
WW3 is over this one is WW4...LOL

Right on Tony.

Those who are against the Iraq invasion and liberation are, knowingly or unknowingly, enemies of the US and supporters of terrorism.

The fact is that nations are always at war with each other, competing in the world market place, strengthening their economic leverage in a political war with other nations, and at times, engaging in actual combat. This is a fact of life that will never change, and should not change (understandable when you understand life and personality).

Liberals will disagree, but they can only argue back by demeaning the source - their typical level of counter-argument.


 


Posted by osubucks30 on :
 
MOST AMERICANS DON'T know anything about WAR! WAR is basically a legal way of murdering people IMO! Think of how many IRAQIS have been killed. Over 100,000 civilians and more added daily! I don't blame people for standing up against what they believe are occupiers. If I lived somewhere and another nation came and killed my family I would take up arms against them. I just can't believe they call civilian KILLINGS collateral damage! The US says all people fighting us are terrorists. This is just not true. I don't see how we can FORCE are western values on to the MUSLIMS. I just don't see it working. Sure there are terrorists there NOW but MOST are native IRAQIS!

May GOD BLESS our troops! They are only doing what they are told!

[This message has been edited by osubucks30 (edited November 08, 2004).]
 


Posted by glassman on :
 
the election is over...
the troops need YOU....
if you don't agree with the politicians then work effectively to change their minds...
the troops are just following orders...
don't make the situation worse for them..

[This message has been edited by glassman (edited November 08, 2004).]
 


Posted by DiQuiRiesco on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
the election is over...
the troops need YOU....
if you don't agree with the politicians then work effectively to change their minds...
the troops are just following orders...
don't make the situation worse for them..


[This message has been edited by glassman (edited November 08, 2004).]



Actually, yes glass the election is over and it would seem that America does agree with the administration about the war on terror.
I do not feel pitty towards your apparent lack of ability to understand why war is preferable to words of compasion and sensetivity towards those who would do us harm. I am somewhat frustrated by your apparent mental lackings.
You have sided with our enemy on every occasion.
The proof is in... you are an unamerican communist sympathizer without the balls to declare it for yourself.
Get over it glass, we all know who you are.
Atleast have the guts to stand up for who you are rather than give some witless diatribe about why I am wrong about you.


 


Posted by osubucks30 on :
 
I support our troops! I just believe we should of went into Fallujah months ago! Instead we let them build up their defenses!

WHY DID WE WAIT?

WHAT IS DIFFERENT TODAY THEN 3 MONTHS AGO?
I will tell you what is different. THE ELECTION IS OVER!!It was all a political move and that is a fact!
 


Posted by glassman on :
 
true OSU, and it does require a minor amount of intellect to understand that....
LOL

 
Posted by glassman on :
 
apparently,besides waiting for the election to be over, we were ALSO waiting for some 5000 Iraqi troops to complete training so they could participate in this offensive....
unfortunately it appears that about half of them went AWOL.....
expect more of that....
too many "optimists" in certain areas think that we are welcome liberators...
we WILL prevail tho...
 
Posted by osubucks30 on :
 
It should be easy. We are fighting foot soldiers with tanks and bombs. All I am worried about in the civilain casualities. I think there may be nothing left after we complete the mission!
 
Posted by glassman on :
 
that would please both sides that want to have shooting war.....
 
Posted by keithsan on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by osubucks30:
MOST AMERICANS DON'T know anything about WAR! WAR is basically a legal way of murdering people IMO! Think of how many IRAQIS have been killed. Over 100,000 civilians and more added daily! I don't blame people for standing up against what they believe are occupiers. If I lived somewhere and another nation came and killed my family I would take up arms against them. I just can't believe they call civilian KILLINGS collateral damage! The US says all people fighting us are terrorists. This is just not true. I don't see how we can FORCE are western values on to the MUSLIMS. I just don't see it working. Sure there are terrorists there NOW but MOST are native IRAQIS!

May GOD BLESS our troops! They are only doing what they are told!

[This message has been edited by osubucks30 (edited November 08, 2004).]



didn't terrorists come in and kill people from your country???????

you haven't taken up arms.

hmmmmmm......

 


Posted by osubucks30 on :
 
IRAQ DID NOT ATTACK US! THEY HAVE NO CONNECTION WITH 9/11!! BUT POLLS STILL SUGGEST THE AMERICAN PEOPLE BELIEVE THEY DID!!

WHY DO THEY THINK IRAQ WAS INVOLVED? BECAUSE BUSH LIED AND MISLEAD THE AMERICANS AND THE REST OF THE WORLD. I WOULD TAKE UP ARMS IF WE WERE INVADED BY ANOTHER COUNTRY!!

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A DEFENSIVE STRIKE AND A PRE-EMPTIVE STRIKE!!! YOU CAN"T START HAVING PRE-EMPTIVE WARS!!!!! WE CAN'T FIGHT THE WHOLE MUSLIM WORLD!!!!!!
 


Posted by Art on :
 
It is not about Iraq being connected to 9/11. Bush never asserted any such connection, and did not lie about anything.

It is about mideast stabilty, necessary for the world economy. We took the fight to the terrorists in Iraq simply because the terrorists and Saddam were both threats to mideast stability.

We are winning the war and will make the mideast secure, and avoid a world wide depression which otherwise would have occurred.

It is about your ability to live a decent life. This means that other people, who would ruin your life or kill you, must be killed. If you can't accept this, move to Canada and hate the US from there.

 


Posted by Art on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by osubucks30:

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A DEFENSIVE STRIKE AND A PRE-EMPTIVE STRIKE!!! YOU CAN"T START HAVING PRE-EMPTIVE WARS!!!!! WE CAN'T FIGHT THE WHOLE MUSLIM WORLD!!!!!!

A defensive strike follows a past enemy attack, to prevent or reduce future such enemy atacks, while a pre-emptive strike is
before a future enemy attack, to prevent or reduce such enemy attacks. Both are defensive in that they both aim at preventing or reducing future enemy attacks.

The atomic bombs used on Japan were pre-emptive strikes which avoided an invasion of Japan which would have killed millions in a prolonged war on Japanese soil, which the Japanese were prepared to fight to the last person alive. Even Japanese women and children were being trained to fight a prolonged war on Japanese soil.

If you could have prevented the pre-emptive use of atomic bombs in WW II you would have been responsible for millions of lives. Is that what you want?
 


Posted by osubucks30 on :
 
In case yoy FORGOT Japan attacked Pearl Harbor!! So it was a defensive stike!! NOT A PRE-EMPTIVE ONE! YOU LEFT THAT POINT OUT!!

------------------
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
Benjamin Franklin
 


Posted by Art on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by osubucks30:
In case yoy FORGOT Japan attacked Pearl Harbor!! So it was a defensive stike!! NOT A PRE-EMPTIVE ONE! YOU LEFT THAT POINT OUT!!


No, we were not in much danger from attack by Japan, and had not been attacked recently, just before we used atomic bombs against them. Japan was preparing to defend the homeland against our invasion, and we were preparing to invade Japan. Our use of atomic bombs was in no way defensive except as pre-emptive aggression to prevent further war - a defense against future bloodshed.

We could have negotiated a truce in which we agreed to go home if both sides ceased hostilities. However, Japan would have rebuilt its war machine and then invaded Asia as they had done before Pearl Harbor. Ultimately, we might have to come back and finish the job after Japan over-ran Asia.

Defeat of Japan necessitated invasion, in a war lasting many years, or a pre-emptive atomic strike to prevent this. We saved lives in using atomic bombs in pre-emptive strikes.

Our defeat of terrorism in the next few years will come at a cost, but will save lives over the long haul. Invading Iraq is essential to this effort.


 


Posted by Art on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by osubucks30:
IRAQ DID NOT ATTACK US! THEY HAVE NO CONNECTION WITH 9/11!! BUT POLLS STILL SUGGEST THE AMERICAN PEOPLE BELIEVE THEY DID!!

WHY DO THEY THINK IRAQ WAS INVOLVED? BECAUSE BUSH LIED AND MISLEAD THE AMERICANS AND THE REST OF THE WORLD.


Many liberals say invading Iraq was a bad idea. They didn't say this at the time of the invasion, however. Liberals are good at whining and complaining but bad at problem solving. They now whine about invading Iraq. Exceptions such as Lieberman show some liberals appreciate reality, though most live in La La land.
What would have happened, if liberals had their present wish, if we had not invaded Iraq?

1. Saddam had WMD - that is a fact. He also had WMD developmental programs on hold, ready to be activated when UN sanctions were lifted - that is a fact.

2. The US would have soon recalled their military from the mideast, if the weapons inspections were extended, under world pressure, given that UN inspectors failed to discover Saddam's WMD (which could have gone to Syria or have been buried in the desert). The UN weapons inspections would have been discontinued and sanctions lifted.

3. Saddam would then reinstitute WMD development. He was close to developing atomic bombs in the early 90s and would return to quickly develop them.

4. To pursue his goal of taking over the mideast and then marching through Israel in victory, he would plan another invasion of Kuwait. In order to tie up the US., he would have secretly supplied WMD (including nuclear) to Al-Qaeda for them to attack New York and Washington. While the US was in chaos over these attacks, Saddam would have attacked Kuwait with WMD. After securing their oil, he would attack Saudi Arabia and established Iraq as the most powerful nation in the mideast. Oil prices to the US and its allies (not France, Germany, Russia or China) would skyrocket. Meanwhile, he would continue to secretly supply terrorists with WMD in continuing attacks on US soil.

5. The US would go into economic depression. It would not be a peaceful one like in the 30s - it would involve riots and gang robbery, with many people being killed.

6. Israel might have to use nuclear weapons against Saddam if Saddam did not try a first strike to defeat Israel quickly - either way the oil supply in the mideast would be disrupted, provoking a world wide depression.

Liberals living in their La La world say this all could never have happened.

Those who understand history would say it could easily have happened.


 


Posted by glassman on :
 
i think he tasted the kool-aid....

The Hawks Loudly Express Their Second Thoughts
The following article is more broadly about how initial supporters of the war in Iraq are having second thoughts, or doubts about how it has been conducted. It's relevant to this site for two reasons: 1) it mentions a number of neoconservatives (Max Boot, Charles Krauthammer, Bill Kristol, and more) amongst the ranks of the disappointed, and 2) it speaks of how traditional conservatives (like CNN pundit Tucker Carlson, for example) are waking up to the fact that they allowed themselves to be spun into supporting a war which is not reflective of a conservative view of government's role.

That sentiment is summed up best in this sentence:

How, they wonder, did so many conservatives, who normally don't trust their government to run a public school down the street, come to believe that federal bureaucrats could transform an entire nation in the alien culture of the Middle East?

Good question.


LOL

[This message has been edited by glassman (edited November 08, 2004).]
 


Posted by glassman on :
 
we call it OXYMORONIC
 
Posted by Kate on :
 
It comes down to a simple choice! Sit and do nothing, and allow the terrorists to take over the world, and do whatever they want, to whomever they want, or go after them, and stop them before they kill innocent people, our family and friends!
 
Posted by keithsan on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by osubucks30:
IRAQ DID NOT ATTACK US! THEY HAVE NO CONNECTION WITH 9/11!! BUT POLLS STILL SUGGEST THE AMERICAN PEOPLE BELIEVE THEY DID!!

WHY DO THEY THINK IRAQ WAS INVOLVED? BECAUSE BUSH LIED AND MISLEAD THE AMERICANS AND THE REST OF THE WORLD. I WOULD TAKE UP ARMS IF WE WERE INVADED BY ANOTHER COUNTRY!!

THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A DEFENSIVE STRIKE AND A PRE-EMPTIVE STRIKE!!! YOU CAN"T START HAVING PRE-EMPTIVE WARS!!!!! WE CAN'T FIGHT THE WHOLE MUSLIM WORLD!!!!!!


where did i mention 9/11?????? al queda are on the only terrorists,

pre-emption would've been nice on binladen before 9/11 though....

if you think there were no terrorists, support for terrorist, funding for terrorists and terrorist training camps in iraq, you are mistaken.....

yes there are other places with them also and i hope we find a way to dig'em out...


 


Posted by glassman on :
 
i have to say that reading this thread makes me wonder if we all even speak the same language....NO LOL...


 


Posted by keithsan on :
 
Haslfje,

ssdinpa-ehfvvkwor aon wei ehpalfu

wowu ojow iur FU woew oowwo ncv , bnbgg!
 


Posted by glassman on :
 
i know exactly what you mean Keith, they really aren't green are they?
 
Posted by pennyearned on :
 
The initial post on this thread speaks volumes... Past administrations treated acts of terror as criminal action versus isolated acts of war. So while we seek, capture, try, and punish those evildoers, their bretheren continue to train and plan for future attacks against us. WOW...that really did a lot of good. Look at how many attacks have transpired since 79'. All because we took on a position of passivism and treated terror as an insignificant threat--or as Kerry calls it "a nuisance".

Taking an offensive position against them is what has been needed. Past passivism has gotten us nowhere and has encouraged terrorists to further their agenda, fund themselves and plan more elaborate schemes.

One agruement I don't understand from the liberal side is this: They critisize those of us who support the war and encourage its offensive position, when history has shown that our own inactivity in dealing effectively and definitively with each terrorist act has shown to be totally ineffective. What would they have us do--continue to turn a blind eye, and continue along the path of least resistence? It doesn't work. 9/11 happened precisely because of our appethetic position and not taking advantages of opportunities that were presented to us.

Furthermore, for those who distain the war in Iraq, remember; Bush's mandate for war, which had virtually unanimous congressional support, stated that we would root out terrorists and those that harbor them--Iraq is/was included in that equation.

[This message has been edited by pennyearned (edited November 09, 2004).]
 


Posted by glassman on :
 
you guys are rewriting history AGAIN...

even the real conservatives are scratching their heads over this one....i saw Newt Gingrich TODAY say we should be out of Iraq already....

General Powell said EARLY ON ..it's pottery barn rules...

you break it? you bought it...

it's ours now so quit lying to yourselves and get over it...we will win IN SPITE of the idiocy...

Bush held meetings with congressional leaders to EARN the vote for war powers...he was granted them....
what he did with them was HIS decision...LOL
he earned that vote with "evidence" that WMD's were present and even 45 minutes from being deployed....sheesh...

[This message has been edited by glassman (edited November 09, 2004).]
 


Posted by pennyearned on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
you guys are rewriting history AGAIN...

even the real conservatives are scratching their heads over this one....i saw Newt Gingrich TODAY say we should be out of Iraq already....

General Powell said EARLY ON ..it's pottery barn rules...

you break it? you bought it...

it's ours now so quit lying to yourselves and get over it...we will win IN SPITE of the idiocy...

Bush held meetings with congressional leaders to EARN the vote for war powers...he was granted them....
what he did with them was HIS decision...LOL
he earned that vote with "evidence" that WMD's were present and even 45 minutes from being deployed....sheesh...


[This message has been edited by glassman (edited November 09, 2004).]



I believe we should be there, but don't approve of all we've done. Unlike previous administrations, at least Bush had the kahunas to deal aggressively with a legitimate threat--terror as a whole.

We should be done and over with regarding Iraq. Too much political BS involved. In that way Bush is no different than Clinton or Carter.

Regarding WMD's, I really don't care...Iraq habored terrorists and they were next in line after Aphganistan. Glass, you seem hellbent on the WMD thing. If Saddam didn't have them, then why did he not allow inspectors in for so long, or kick them out when they were meddling too much?

WMD's posed only one reason we went to war in Iraq. Harboring terrorists is another. Just because solid proof of the former is unsubstantiated, doesn't illigitimize the later as a cause.
 


Posted by glassman on :
 
the WMD thing? it was wasted political capitAl that's why i am so BENT on it...
it's history now, but i like to keep the facts in order so we can improve next time..

i'm accustomed to being called liberal by the conservatives and conservative by the liberals..done is done..i'm moving on...
the troops are in there right now cleaning out the mess. support them. don't whine about collateral damage, they have to worry about their own skin FIRST

you guys that keep make EXCUSES for failure are the real problem....

i don't have a political agenda...i look at the situation and TRY to come up with a realistic theory about what is going on...(i know i am not always right )

for instance the first post on this thread? stupid..of course we have been at war since 1979....only an idiot doesn't know that, we have been at war with Russia/USSR since half-way thru WW2 too, we don't have to shoot to win wars, it just wastes money....
we are still at war with Russia by the way...

sama is still running around...thats failure....


 


Posted by glassman on :
 
as fara s the terroist thing in iraq? if they didn' have the SECOND LARGEST oil reserves in the world? we wouldn't bother....

why don't we take Columbia? they are poisoning our kids....
HMMMMM?????
 


Posted by tigertony on :
 
for instance the first post on this thread? stupid..of course we have been at war since 1979....only an idiot doesn't know that, we have been at war with Russia/USSR since half-way thru WW2 too,

Hey i resemble that remark LOl,ieven posted it.LOL oh you want to get personal,why you no good LOL Been busy not much time to even look at market last 2 days.Hope you guys are making money.
 


Posted by glassman on :
 
Tony i've seen variations of that post several places...
i'm not even sure it was a real speech...

the insinuation that we haven't been doing anything is what angers me...we have been....

not enough, but we weren't asleep...
 


Posted by keithsan on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
as fara s the terroist thing in iraq? if they didn' have the SECOND LARGEST oil reserves in the world? we wouldn't bother....

why don't we take Columbia? they are poisoning our kids....
HMMMMM?????


kosovo, no oil, afghanistan, no oil...


 


Posted by glassman on :
 
yeah, and how many troops are still in those countries??LOL
do not misundertake me
just because the oil is there, doesn't mean it's not national security....

if the people really wanted a democracy? we wouldn't be fighting right now, and the insurgency was NOT planned for...

[This message has been edited by glassman (edited November 09, 2004).]
 


Posted by turbokid on :
 
i like this thread but alot of people are missing a very important point about terrorism.. all these attacks on our embassies, ships and the twin towers are in retaliation for our military and finacial support of israel, who invaded and are illegally occupying palestinian land. And whenever israel decides to roll into palestine (with US supplied tanks and f-16s) and kill some people it echoes throughout the muslim world that the united states is supporting these acts against there people.. and they cant compete with the US militarily, so terrorism is their tactic of choice..

It makes me wonder alot about how the US always comes to the aid whenever one country invades another. ie kuwait, but israel has been doing this to the palestinians for decades and we give them money and weapons.. ???? that can only mean one thing, the united states supports these acts against palestinians and for that reason we will continue to be the target for terrorism, period.
 


Posted by glassman on :
 
you're wasting your breath....the vote was counted...the stage is set, the ball is rolling...and none of the peopel who don't already understand what you are saying has the common sense to try to figure out what you are trying to tell them....why do you think Collin Powell quit?
 
Posted by DiQuiRiesco on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by turbokid:
i like this thread but alot of people are missing a very important point about terrorism.. all these attacks on our embassies, ships and the twin towers are in retaliation for our military and finacial support of israel, who invaded and are illegally occupying palestinian land. And whenever israel decides to roll into palestine (with US supplied tanks and f-16s) and kill some people it echoes throughout the muslim world that the united states is supporting these acts against there people.. and they cant compete with the US militarily, so terrorism is their tactic of choice..

It makes me wonder alot about how the US always comes to the aid whenever one country invades another. ie kuwait, but israel has been doing this to the palestinians for decades and we give them money and weapons.. ???? that can only mean one thing, the united states supports these acts against palestinians and for that reason we will continue to be the target for terrorism, period.


Palestinians have controlled Israel for a paltry six years out of the nearly six thousand that it has been fought over.
The fact is that Jews were there first and every attempt to take it from them has found failure. The current Palestinian insurgency is nothing more than an attempt to show Jews as oppressors.
You are not correct in assuming that our defense of Israel has bought us a target sign.
It is the freeness of our society that encourages their hate for us.
If devotion to Israel is the only way to draw Islam's fury then why does India need nukes to defend itself from Muslim nations?



 


Posted by glassman on :
 
funny DQR, India didn't NEED nukes till we (US and Britain) taught the Paki's to build them...LOL

you are correct about the Palestinians having NO MORE claim than the current Israeli's tho....

it IS definitely about anti-semitism .....
refusing to recognise the hebrew factor in all of this???? big mistake, and it's not just middle-easterners either...EU anti-semitism is a major part of the problem...

th e goals from here, should be about maintaning balance...we don't really want to try run these countries...we just think we do...
those who do not understand how the universe is designed are constantly beseeching God to allow them to cheat....LOL
Jesus isn't going to let US cheat any more than Allah will let them cheat....we are buying ourselves a lot more headaches than we are getting rid of....
the scary part is that some fools actually believe God loves them more than others and will intervene....

don't you find it odd that these terrorists who "hate" our freedom are in fact succeeding in reducing it?
and the people who say they love it so much are screaming bloody murder to make sure they control what the others of US do?????
it's not even about freedom at all...it's about CONTROL of others....

did you catch the sam CIA guy who quit today? he says we didn't try hard enough to catch him too....wonder why?....

the other thing to keep in mind...cultures don't change overnight....the only reason WE are as free as we are is that we isolated/separated ouselves from our European forefathers....most people prefer to live within the confines of a well-defined order...just like pets bred and raised in cages....they don't KNOW what to do when they are left out.....most don't even WANT to be left out...

[This message has been edited by glassman (edited November 15, 2004).]
 


Posted by DiQuiRiesco on :
 
Glass, go back and read some history about the conflict between Hindus and Muslims... Been going on for a while. Infact a warrior sect was created for the specific purpose of quelling the bloodshed between these two religions... the sect or religion however you want to think of it is called Sikhism.. Created by Nannuk many years before nukes were even a glimmer in the third eye of the most crazed pyromaniac.
Pakistan in a roundabout way learned how to make nukes from us.
China learned about nukes from Russia and us.
You can thank B.J. Kleenton for that one.
China gave this knowledge to their best WMD storefront (North Korea).
Pakistan bought this knowledge from Kim Jong Ill for a handsome price.
You are right in that the "Hebrew factor" as you call it should not be forgotten. We should all read the history of Israel before even making the attempt to come to a conclussion. You are also correct in saying EU anti-semitism is the problem.
The palistinian insurgency exsists to show the feeble minded populous how "mean" the Jews really are.
We have no desire to "run" Israel. Infact they tell us to screw ourselves quite often.
Maintaining balance?
What the hell does that mean?
What balance does fundamentalist Islam seek?
Their balance means we die and they live.
There is no balance.
The next part of your reply begs for me offer to you an apology for all the many times I called you a moron because I am pretty sure you actually understand what "Free Will" means.
Do I find it odd that they have suceeded in reducing our freedoms?
No.

I didn't catch the press release from the disgruntled C.I.A. employee who quit recently. Nor did I have the time to track down where the six figure deposit to his offshore account came from just prior to his PR.
Glass, not one person in the admin. assumes it is remotely probable to change an entire culture overnight. It just won't happen. If we push too hard too fast then their will be an adolescent like rebellion. If we push too slow there will be the opportunity for the fundamentalists to move into an underground mentality much like the Nazis and commies have done.

 


Posted by turbokid on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by DiQuiRiesco:
You are not correct in assuming that our defense of Israel has bought us a target sign.
It is the freeness of our society that encourages their hate for us.

its our freeness ?.. are you kidding me..? well i must give the media kudos for successfully leading you to believe they hate our freedom..
the following is a compilation of osama bin ladens speeches since 1997, let me know if you detect a pattern...

Why do they hate us? asked the apathetic, uninformed American public on September 11th. Israel's spokesmen in the US, aka the government and mainstream media, responded with the ludicrous notion that we were attacked because the terrorists hate democracy and freedom, and absolutely, positively NOT because of anything to do with Israel. (You must be an anti-Semite for even thinking that!) Judge for yourself:

Osama bin Laden
March 29, 1997

We declared jihad against the US government, because the US government is unjust,
criminal and tyrannical. It has committed acts that are extremely unjust, hideous and criminal whether directly or through its support of the Israeli occupation of the Prophet's Night Travel Land (Palestine). And we believe the US is directly responsible for those who were killed in Palestine, Lebanon and Iraq. The mention of the US reminds us before everything else of those innocent children who were dismembered, their heads and arms cut off in the recent explosion that took place in Qana (in Lebanon).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Due to its subordination to the Jews the arrogance and haughtiness of the US regime has reached, to the extent that they occupied the qibla of the Muslims (Arabia) who are more than a billion in the world today. For this and other acts of aggression and injustice, we have declared jihad against the US...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Today, the nation is interacting well by uniting its efforts through jihad against the US
which has in collaboration with the Israeli government led the ferocious campaign against the Islamic World in occupying the holy sites of the Muslims.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With a simple look at the US behaviors, we find that it judges the behavior of the poor
Palestinian children whose country was occupied: if they throw stones against the Israeli occupation, it says they are terrorists whereas when the Israeli pilots bombed the United Nations building in Qana, Lebanon while was full of children and women, the US stopped any plan to condemn Israel.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But I say if the American government is serious about
avoiding the explosions inside the U.S., then let it stop provoking the feelings of 1,250 million Muslims. Those hundreds of thousands who have been killed or displaced in Iraq, Palestine, Lebanon, do have brothers and relatives. They would make of Ramzi Yousef a symbol and a teacher. The U.S. will drive them to transfer the battle into the United States. Everything is made possible to protect the blood of the American citizen while the bloodshed of Muslims is allowed in every place. With this kind of behavior, the U.S. government is hurting itself, hurting Muslims and hurting the American people.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is he (Bill Clinton) who is a terrorist who pushed their sons into this for the sake of the Israeli interest. We believe that the American army in Saudi Arabia came to separate between the Muslims and the people for not ruling in accordance with Allah's wish. They came to be in support of the Israeli forces in occupied Palestine, the land of the "Israa" of our Prophet (PBUH).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Osama bin-Laden
May 1998 interview:

Their [US troops in Saudi Arabia] presence has no meaning save one and that is to offer support to the Jews in Palestine who are in need of their Christian brothers to achieve full control over the Arab Peninsula which they intend to make an important part of the so called Greater Israel. ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For over half a century, Muslims in Palestine have been slaughtered and assaulted and robbed of their honor and of their property. Their houses have been blasted, their crops destroyed. And the strange thing is that any act on their part to avenge themselves or to lift the injustice befalling them causes great agitation in the United Nations which hastens to call for an emergency meeting only to convict the victim and to censure the wronged and the tyrannized whose children have been killed and whose crops have been destroyed and whose farms have been pulverized. ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And while the slogans raised by those regimes call for humanity, justice, and peace, the behavior of their governments is completely the opposite. It is not enough for their people to show pain when they see our children being killed in Israeli raids launched by American planes, nor does this serve the purpose. What they ought to do is change their governments which attack our countries. The hostility that America continues to express against the Muslim people has given rise to feelings of animosity on the part of Muslims against America and against the West in general. Those feelings of animosity have produced a change in the behavior of some crushed and subdued groups who, instead of fighting the Americans inside the Muslim countries, went on to fight them inside the United States of America itself.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The enmity between us and the Jews goes far back in time and is deep rooted. There is no question that war between the two of us is inevitable. For this reason it is not in the interest of Western governments to expose the interests of their people to all kinds of retaliation for almost nothing. It is hoped that people of those countries will initiate a positive move and force their governments not to act on behalf of other states and other sects.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The leaders in America and in other countries as well have fallen victim to Jewish Zionist blackmail.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your position against Muslims in Palestine is despicable and disgraceful. America has no shame.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The fatwah is general (comprehensive) and it includes all those who participate in, or help the Jewish occupiers in killing Muslims.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

He [Ramzi Yousef, who bombed the WTC in 93] acted with zeal to make the Americans understand that their government was attacking Muslims in order to safeguard the American-Jewish interests. ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We are certain - with the grace of Allah - that we shall prevail over the Jews and over those fighting with them.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Our mothers and daughters and sons are slaughtered every day with the approval of America and its support. And, while America blocks the entry of weapons into Islamic countries, it provides the Israelis with a continuous supply of arms allowing them thus to kill and massacre more Muslims.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I say to them that they have put themselves at the mercy of a disloyal government, and this is most evident in Clinton's administration ... . We believe that this administration represents Israel inside America. Take the sensitive ministries such as the Ministry of Exterior and the Ministry of Defense and the CIA, you will find that the Jews have the upper hand in them. They make use of America to further their plans for the world, especially the Islamic world. American presence in the Gulf provides support to the Jews and protects their rear. And while millions of Americans are homeless and destitute and live in abject poverty, their government is busy occupying our land and building new settlements and helping Israel build new settlements in the point of departure for our Prophet's midnight journey to the seven heavens. America throws her own sons in the land of the two Holy Mosques for the sake of protecting Jewish interests. ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The American government is leading the country towards hell. ... We say to the Americans as people and to American mothers, if they cherish their lives and if they cherish their sons, they must elect an American patriotic government that caters to their interests not the interests of the Jews. If the present injustice continues with the wave of national consciousness, it will inevitably move the battle to American soil, just as Ramzi Yousef and others have done. This is my message to the American people. I urge them to find a serious administration that acts in their interest and does not attack people and violate their honor and pilfer their wealth. ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Osama bin Laden
October 7, 2001 statement:

Israeli tanks and tracked vehicles wreak havoc in Palestine, Jenin, Ramallah, Rafah, Beit Jala and other Islamic areas and we hear no voices raised or moves made.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Al-Quaida spokesman
October 10, 2001:

Let the United States know that with God's permission, the battle will continue to be waged on its territory until it leaves our lands, stops its support for the Jews, and lifts the unjust embargo on the Iraqi people who have lost more than one million children.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Al-Quaida spokesman
October 14, 2001:

The issue at hand is the issue of an entire nation that opposes humiliation and subservience under the yoke of US arrogance and Jewish persecution.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Bush, in the midst of his arrogance, media frenzy, and the enduring freedom that he boasts about must not forget the video footage of Muhammad al-Durrah [a Palestinian child killed by Israeli troops in the early days of the Palestinian intifada in the Gaza Strip] and his brothers, Muslim children in Palestine and Iraq.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This truth shows that Bush is an agent of Israel and sacrifices his people and his country's economy for those and helps them occupy the Muslims' land and persecute their sons.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Osama bin-Laden
November 3, 2001

Palestinians and Iraqis: But when we move to Palestine and Iraq, there can be no bounds to what can be said. Over one million children were killed in Iraq. The killing is continuing. As for what is taking place in Palestine these days, I can only say we have no one but God to complain to. What is taking place cannot be tolerated by any nation. I do not say from the nations of the human race, but from other creatures, from the animals. They would not tolerate what is taking place. A confidant of mine told me that he saw a butcher slaughtering a camel in front of another camel. The other camel got agitated while seeing the blood coming out of the other camel. Thus, it burst out with rage and bit the hand of the man and broke it. How can the weak mothers in Palestine endure the killing of their children in front of their eyes by the unjust Jewish executioners with US support and with US aircraft and tanks? Israel and US "are one": Those who distinguish between America and Israel are the real enemies of the nation
Osama bin Laden
November 7, 2001:

The American people should remember that they pay taxes to their government, they elect their president, their government manufactures arms and gives them to Israel and Israel uses them to massacre Palestinians. The American Congress endorses all government measures and this proves that the entire America is responsible for the atrocities perpetrated against Muslims.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Jewish lobby has taken America and the West hostage.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Osama bin Laden
December 27, 2001

Our terrorism against the United States is blessed, aimed at repelling the oppressor so that America stops its support for Israel.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Osama bin Laden
November 2002

Our kinfolk in Palestine have been slain and severely tortured for nearly a century. If we defend our people in Palestine, the world becomes agitated and allies itself against Muslims, unjustly and falsely, under the pretense of fighting terrorism.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These actions were carried out by the zealous sons of Islam in defense of their religion and in response to the order of their God and prophet. ... What Bush, the pharaoh of this age, was doing in terms of killing our sons in Iraq, and what Israel, the United States' ally, was doing in terms of bombing houses that shelter old people, women and children with U.S.-made aircraft in Palestine were sufficient to prompt the sane among your rulers to distance themselves from this criminal gang.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you were distressed by the deaths of your men and the men of your allies in Tunisia, Karachi, Failaka, Bali and Amman, remember our children who are killed in Palestine and Iraq everyday.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Osama bin Laden
November 24th 2002

Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is very simple:

Because you attacked us and continue to attack us.

You attacked us in Palestine:

Palestine, which has sunk under military occupation for more than 80 years. The British handed over Palestine, with your help and your support, to the Jews, who have occupied it for more than 50 years; years overflowing with oppression, tyranny, crimes, killing, expulsion, destruction and devastation. The creation and continuation of Israel is one of the greatest crimes, and you are the leaders of its criminals. And of course there is no need to explain and prove the degree of American support for Israel. The creation of Israel is a crime which must be erased. Each and every person whose hands have become polluted in the contribution towards this crime must pay its price, and pay for it heavily.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The blood pouring out of Palestine must be equally revenged. You must know that the Palestinians do not cry alone; their women are not widowed alone; their sons are not orphaned alone.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These governments have surrendered to the Jews, and handed them most of Palestine, acknowledging the existence of their state over the dismembered limbs of their own people.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Your forces occupy our countries; you spread your military bases throughout them; you corrupt our lands, and you besiege our sanctities, to protect the security of the Jews and to ensure the continuity of your pillage of our treasures.


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You have supported the Jews in their idea that Jerusalem is their eternal capital, and agreed to move your embassy there. With your help and under your protection, the Israelis are planning to destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque. Under the protection of your weapons, Sharon entered the Al-Aqsa mosque, to pollute it as a preparation to capture and destroy it.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The American people are the ones who pay the taxes which fund the planes that bomb us in Afghanistan, the tanks that strike and destroy our homes in Palestine, the armies which occupy our lands in the Arabian Gulf, and the fleets which ensure the blockade of Iraq. These tax dollars are given to Israel for it to continue to attack us and penetrate our lands. So the American people are the ones who fund the attacks against us, and they are the ones who oversee the expenditure of these monies in the way they wish, through their elected candidates.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also the American army is part of the American people. It is this very same people who are shamelessly helping the Jews fight against us.


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...the American people cannot be not innocent of all the crimes committed by the Americans and Jews against us.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We also call you to deal with us and interact with us on the basis of mutual interests and benefits, rather than the policies of subdual, theft and occupation, and not to continue your policy of supporting the Jews because this will result in more disasters for you.



 


Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
 
Bump [Smile]
 
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
 
quote:
Originally posted by DiQuiRiesco:
quote:
Originally posted by turbokid:
i like this thread but alot of people are missing a very important point about terrorism.. all these attacks on our embassies, ships and the twin towers are in retaliation for our military and finacial support of israel, who invaded and are illegally occupying palestinian land. And whenever israel decides to roll into palestine (with US supplied tanks and f-16s) and kill some people it echoes throughout the muslim world that the united states is supporting these acts against there people.. and they cant compete with the US militarily, so terrorism is their tactic of choice..

It makes me wonder alot about how the US always comes to the aid whenever one country invades another. ie kuwait, but israel has been doing this to the palestinians for decades and we give them money and weapons.. ???? that can only mean one thing, the united states supports these acts against palestinians and for that reason we will continue to be the target for terrorism, period.

Palestinians have controlled Israel for a paltry six years out of the nearly six thousand that it has been fought over.
The fact is that Jews were there first and every attempt to take it from them has found failure. The current Palestinian insurgency is nothing more than an attempt to show Jews as oppressors.
You are not correct in assuming that our defense of Israel has bought us a target sign.
It is the freeness of our society that encourages their hate for us.
If devotion to Israel is the only way to draw Islam's fury then why does India need nukes to defend itself from Muslim nations?

That guy was right on the money..
 
Posted by Dustoff 1 on :
 
Too funny...
 
Posted by Relentless Despot. on :
 
[Cool]
 


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