before i do, i will tell you that 42 minutes is three minutes short of the NORMAL adult human attention span, making me suspicious already that it was designed by an EXPERT....LOL
go hang out at VA center anywhere in a WARM climate where homeless live and you will see....
ask counselors that have worked with them...
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited October 23, 2004).]
so how long do i have to listen to them describe what the enemy did to our troops?
Jane Fonda?
13 1/2 minutes about Nam....so far?
16 minutes and i now know war is hell...
17 minutes Kerry didn't meet secretly..with N. Viets..it was well documented..
these guys have never heard of Calley and My-lai...they are blaming Kerry fo that????
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited October 23, 2004).]
KENT STATE?? anyone???
these guys are full of it..we chucked the Geneva convention at the beginning of this war too...
and i have alreay documented it...
they even admit that the politicians screwed it up, just like this war we are in now...
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited October 23, 2004).]
the statements that the POWS were there longer because of the anti-war movement..FICTION....
that is sad...
war by definitin is a suspension of the law ....
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited October 23, 2004).]
he doesnot see Kerry this way.....
he is republican.....
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
John McCain was a POW......he doesnot see Kerry this way.....
he is republican.....
quote:
Originally posted by tigertony:
Yeah because publicly he can't or i am sure he would.I guarantee you he is despised by plenty over this.Including me and i am not a vet.The truth this guy does'nt know the meaning in truth.Boy if this guy wins, hows canada lately.
no Tony that's absolutely bassakwards...
don't you recall the concerns about whether or not McCain would be Kerry's VP? McCain and Kerry are FRIENDS, if political enemies...and i would vote for Mcacain in a second....
this movie is 90% bleeding heart conservative crybaby whining...
5% fact and 5% lies.....
the war in Nam would have gone on AT LEAST for several more years if NOT for the anti-war movement.....Nixon ended it and look what they did to him.....
your response to this peice of propaganda is why i say that the average american is not prepared to wage war...
it's EZ to be cheerlaeders..Bush was a cheerleader in college did you know that?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/images/campaign2000/bush/bush_photo6.htm
those of US that are willing to do the wet work don't really care who says what as long as we get what we need to do the job.....
Kerry did the wetwork while Bush partied...
i heard a rumor that Nancy started the Just say NO campaign after meeting him....
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited October 23, 2004).]
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited October 23, 2004).]
[This message has been edited by tigertony (edited October 23, 2004).]
[This message has been edited by ohdagagain (edited October 23, 2004).]
you guys aren't doing the DD, you are letting OTHER people do it for you....
i know guys that did it...
they took ears...
they did all kinds of stuff..some of them are still proud of it...
when i was on one ship, the guy above my bunk slept with his eyes open and had very loud nightmares that seemed like he was awake....he talked in his sleep
i had a good freind who was a seal commit suicide after killing somebody on a mission in columbia...
all you babies can vote for whoever you want to... when you go to war people do bad things and some of them can't live with it and some can...Bush never went...and he prays to figure out where to strike next?
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited October 23, 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by tigertony:
Glassman i know you dislike Bush in a big way and that is the only reason you want kerry. You would'nt vote vote kerry other than its your only option other than Bush.Just admit you know he was wrong to do that during the war.
i voted for Bush last time....i laughed when Gore tried for the re-count. Bush has flip-flopped or whatever you want to call it so many times in the last four years it ain't funny, and in case you haven't heard, almost all of the intellectual economists in the US are screaming red-alert right now, cuz of the deficit...which HE created.....
i don't want to vote for Kerry....
but he didn't lie...
i don't like the fact that he said the things he did, i don't want to tell you that war is hell, but i won't stand around while they try paint this thing pretty when it isn't...
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited October 23, 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by ohdagagain:
I have been to Afghanistan twice, and trying to go to Iraq.
if i wasn't 44, married and a father i would too, but it would NOT matter if Kery was my CIC....
read my early posts...i am even MORE unhappy with Bush and Cheney for trying to make Kerry look like a weak military person than i am about the WMD thing...in my opinion it is unpatriotic
glassman
Member posted March 16, 2004 17:09
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fearless Leader needs to be a little more carefull in his PR's---I am very concerned that he is going to try to equate a vote for Kerry as a weak stance on terrorism--this will confuse our enemies--
I think the surprise election results in Spain are a good indication that people EVERYWHERE are not pleased with the US/BUSH policy in IRAQ--The polls at home don't seem to me to be quite right-the published 5% difference between Bush and Kerry seems a little fishy to me --
in any case, the voters will speak and if the Bush campaign tries to make it seem like we don't care about terrorism by voting against him-- he may in fact be inviting a new wave of attacks---
IRAN gave back the hostages when we elected Reagan--IMMEDIATELY--remember? Carter didn't have a chance.
I don't see Kerry as a weak hand in SECURITY
I am not backing either candidate here --i am just editorialising about what i am seeing on the world news-
don't you see that Bush is being cruel to the troops...he KNEW he couldn't win without this kind of campaign....
he did not get the popular vote last time....
many people have been signed up to vote that have never voted before...
it's because of the last election, and i won't be surprised if Bush's numbers come in below 45%...the pollsters don't call that many people....
did you know that Bush's people VERY carefully SCREEN who comes into their speech "rallys" all of that cheering you hear? it's very well orchestrated....
but i know that voter registration across the country has been 2 to 1 democrat....and they have been signing up that way since the last election...because of the WAY Bush won....
so, if Kerry wins, (BECAUSE of this propaganda campaign against him,) the troops, LIKE YOU, will feel betrayed....
Bush has stood on the side and said NONE of this stuff....
but O'neal, (the swift-boat guy) was a Nixon croney...want links?
his ratings have been dropping steadily since it became OBVIOUS that there were no WMD's....
most all of my posting here has been an attempt to peirce the spin, not sell you Kerry....
this isn't like betting on a ball game...
if Bush wins by less than a 2% margin, the campaign he has run STILL protrays AMERICA as weak cuz enough of the US voted for Kerry that our enemies will be looking at that too...is this patriotic?
Kerry is not a magic bullet...but, yes i am voting AGAINST Bush, not for Kerry....
the pundits say that's a bad sign for Kerry, but it's also a bad sign for America isn't it?
quote:
Originally posted by keithsan:
i wouldn't be surprised if the numbers are way higher for bush. lots of folks have no land lines now and the pollsters don't have cell phone listings. IMO the group missing will favor bush...
most cell phones are in the hands of the YOUNG...
Kerry has a 65-35 advantage in the college age group..the question is will they show up to vote?
[This message has been edited by tigertony (edited October 23, 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
most cell phones are in the hands of the YOUNG...
Kerry has a 65-35 advantage in the college age group..the question is will they show up to vote?
all not that young glass and repubs have been doing better with the ignorant of knowledge crew, but, now land lines are also home owners and 30 sumptins now....
[This message has been edited by keithsan (edited October 23, 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by tigertony:
Breath Glassman,breath,this is online cpr.Think of the family,calm.LOL I know what you're gonna say i am thinking of the family thats why i get so pissed off.We see things differently on some things thats ok (at least with me )LOL.I say we have done what we can and lets get this whole sordid election over.I to will support (oh man don't know if i can say it)Gulp gasp,umm,Mr.kerry ouch if umm(God Forbid he wins)as my cic.And i still hate all politicians.There like wifes,can't live withem,can't live withoutem,can't shootem.LOL Whatever happens GodBless Us All that we may unite.By the way thanks for the carpel tunnel syndrome,man you win just on stamina,what do you have a direct line to cnn reports,live news wire,and archives.LOL[This message has been edited by tigertony (edited October 23, 2004).]
DITTO....
i have been having fun here...
stepping on toes. i know...
you are right...what will be....
i have to hand it to his ad people, they are good....
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited October 23, 2004).]
i am correct to be pissed at Bush/Cheney for creating this idea.....
who started the Nam? freakin' KENNEDY....
these guys aren't pansies they are just as nuts as any conservative...LOL
quote:
Originally posted by Sgt. Steiner:
Will the Dems sue us if we watch stolen honor????? I know they are sending lawyers to every swing state to protest results they don't like? Why did Bush not sue FATBOY Moore over his lying propaganda movie. If Bush is such a dictator why is he not dead
I will never understand how anyone can call the President a dictator? really... He is doing something that part of the reason we went in was not true, even though the threat was still the same. Granted the opinions of the war are not all on his side. But how can anyone call him that when they are talking about one of a few people who is willing to see somehing to the end in order to establish a more peacfull middle east. Long term there his efforts will provide a better way of life for millions of people, and maybe finally bring those people the self respect they deserve.
[This message has been edited by futuresobjective (edited October 23, 2004).]
What do you think would have happened later on? He still had the capability, he still had the desire. His people, starving, murdered, mistreated... while he paid people to commit suicide. He took that country and made it his own playpen, he had to be held accountable. The fact that he wanted to start his weapons program again, and the fact that he had everything in place (even had one of the head people of the program bury the plans in his backyard until he was called upon) to restart the production. How can that not be a threat? two weeks a month later... where would things have been? You don't think he would have gladely used his money to supprt those against the US? you dont think he would have enjoyed killing inocent women and children? He seemed to enjoy them enough in his own backyard, why not in yours?
[This message has been edited by futuresobjective (edited October 23, 2004).]
you have been buying the GOP propaganda, that's why you have this opinion...Kerry is very strong on what he believes in and wouldn't try to be president if he wasn't...
so please stop with the BS...say you want to invade another third world country and kill people not like US, just like Bush and be done with it...
[This message has been edited by futuresobjective (edited October 23, 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Crashcup:
The Dems now want Kerry to loose so Hillary can run in 2008
You know what would be a good race, her and colin powell. My vote would go to Powell nomatter what side of the fence he would ever want to be on.
quote:
Originally posted by Clyde Crashcup:
The Dems now want Kerry to loose so Hillary can run in 2008
no $HIT....i've been tryin to tell these guys this all along...
FO--you ahave a lot of nerve accusing me of being brainwashed by anybody...you admit you are a political activist.....
i happen to be an allstocks member who ONLY posts here... and share my opinions based on MY OWN DD not this crap you PROPAGANDISTS are pouring out..
BUSH invaded Iraq cuz he wanted to.....
Bush can't even answer questions without a cheat sheet...when he gets on his own, he starts babbling....
his political ads are more than hlf lies about Kerry, and refuse to address the damage Bush has done to US
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
some people see Bush this way too....
[b]
I see him, and I see a man who has no respect for his own country. All I see is a man who wants to be the top dog, I dont see someone who wants to actually do the job[/B]
I understand that. People are entitled to that opinion just as I am. I am not saying that they should not feel as they do. If they have their reasons they have them. But I am looking at it in the long term sense of our country. In that sense, I see what our President has done as positive. It does take courage to do what is best even when there is no support for you in the mean time. That is why I have a lot of respect for the President, because he seems to want to do the job rather than just want the job.
It does take courage to do what is best even when there is no support for you in the mean time.
Bush is doing the US LONG-TERM damage in the world....
we are going BROKE...
why is OIL 50$ plus a barrel?
cuz Putin said so...
Putin told Bush NOT to invade Iraq.....
everybody blames France for the UN veto....
Putin was a NO......
Russia is the SECOND largest producer of oil....
Saudi is NOW pumping as much as they can and they are getting the BEST prices ever....
and you sit here and try to tell me that Bush did a good thing for US?
i gotta wonder....
we compete directly with China for oil....
we are heavily invested in China ourselves...China said NO to the Iraq invasion too....(OH YEAH)....
after we did it, China announced that they were cutting growth....funny, that's when the market turned back to the south....NO LOL..
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited October 23, 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
no $HIT....i've been tryin to tell these guys this all along...
FO--you ahave a lot of nerve accusing me of being brainwashed by anybody...you admit you are a political activist.....
i happen to be an allstocks member who ONLY posts here... and share my opinions based on MY OWN DD not this crap you PROPAGANDISTS are pouring out..BUSH invaded Iraq cuz he wanted to.....
Bush can't even answer questions without a cheat sheet...when he gets on his own, he starts babbling....
his political ads are more than hlf lies about Kerry, and refuse to address the damage Bush has done to US
Sounds like propaganda to me.
Oh FYI, Kerry had cheat sheats (or so some claim). They were not allowed any, but then why when he walked back to the pulpit (I think the second debate) did he pull paper out of his pocket and put them onto the pulpit? None were allowed. Strike you as odd? seems odd to me.
I admit to nothing, I am not a political activist, just a guy like you. I do however, not enjoy being told that I have bought into propoganda, much like yourself. Fact is, from what I see, read, hear, and even discuss on these boards I form my opinion. I have learned more about these two men since starting to post on the topic a couple of weeks ago, than I even wanted to. But still I only find reasons to support our President.
What damage has Bush done to the US? hurt our image with other countries? Did you know, (assuming it is true, follow links on other thread)that the US is the only country that has asked to go to war? So why is is that the world things we are in the wrong, for doing what was right? I am sure they have their self-serving reasons, much like we did for this war. The only difference is that we went in for our own reasons, but the results for millions will be positive, even those countries that disagree with us. Stabalizing the middle east is not a one week task, it will take a long time, and this is the perfect start.
Seems to me he has helped the economy from post 9/11. He has stood by what every other person has had the luxury to flop on. Yes the war, do you really buy into the idea that an iraq with the capability of building WMD's was not a threat? How could it not be in the reality of todays world. The fact is, that President Bush has done a lot, and taken a lot of heat for trying to do a job that is increasingly hard, particularly when you have people who try and point the finger. For example, kerry points the finger, But has not done one single positive thing to actually help this country. He is a joke.
[This message has been edited by futuresobjective (edited October 23, 2004).]
i was reading this....
October 14, 2004
Here's my guide to how to talk to a Kerry voter.
On the Arizona for Bush mailing list I participate in, I’m often the one who goes after the Kerry trolls. Despite my blog name, I’ve gotten a reputation for being the most civil responder. So here’s my guidelines for how to have a civil discussion with a Kerry voter.
and failed to recognise that you had quoted it...
i am sorry...
it's not just higher gas prices you will be paying....
there is a REAL problem here...
we are borrowing too much...
we don't have another dotcom on the way yet...
i can say that there are some serious possibilities in the biotech feild,
but i see investment money going to all the wrong things.....
i too have learned more than i wanted to...
and
i disagree that we are safer for invading iraq...
the BEST thing to come out of this for me so far is that i have become MUCH better at constructing my google search parameters..
i remember these stupid trivial things and feel like i need to verfy them(dumb huh?) so i have gotten quite a bit better at doing googles to find EXACTLY what i am looking for...
oh well..
we will probably ALL vote, and maybe by thanksgiiving we'll know who won....LOL
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited October 23, 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Sgt. Steiner:
Moore is a fat lying piece of crap. He lied in that movie about the GM plant in MI. He lied about Bush the reason he has not been sued is the republicans are above that. You should move to France with your fat freind
LOL, the GOP is above that? what planet are you from?
he used very carefully worded statements to make you think you hear something you didn't....
the GOP does it too.....
they all doo...
the difference is that moore does it and gets paid by his customers voluntarily,
while the politicians do it and you pay them whether you want to or not...LOL
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited October 23, 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Sgt. Steiner:
Glassman just another Marxist running his mouth pushing his socialism. Oh by the way the reason gas is so high is because commie enviro whackos like you have kept this country from builing a refinery in 20 years even if we bring in more oil we can't handle it. Kerry is a liar through and through He claims to be a devoted catholic yet the church has clearly stated any supporter of him is not acting in the catholic faith, He claims to be a hunter and outdoor sportsman yet real hunters laugh at this even field and stream in the sept issue interviewed Kerry and pointed out he knew nothing about hunting or guns. He also says he will raise taxes on top wage earners keep in mind the richest people in the US are not wage earners they are people like him and his Muslim loving wife. He is also running around the country with Jesse HiJackson {another notorious liar)touring Black churches crying Bush is racist. Isnt not Illeagal to take politics into a church?? Could they not loose their tax exempt status for this well of course not that would be racist
watch out there sarge....
i would be happy to invest in another shiny new refinery....BUT it's not the freaking commy pinkoPETA wimps.....
haven't you noticed there are no more independant gas/oil companies?
we haven't done enough to keep anti-trust laws strict...
i didn't say gas was high--i said OIL was high, gas WILL be high soon and you will be parking your HUMV.....sorry...
not my fault....
i get sick of trying to splain all dis.....
Bush is a checkers player in a chess world... get over it...
as far as the religion thing goes, you need to get an update sarge....
Bush's whole campaign is just one big tent revival meeting.....heck i can show you dozens of churches that have complained because Bush/Cheney have requested their mailing lists for fund-raising....
Bush hangs with Pat Robertson one week and Billy Graham the next.....
Bush even told Pat he could take Iraq with no casualties...... that's what Pat says anyway...
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited October 24, 2004).]
isn't it cash???????????
There is no good choice here, so which would we rather have?
how do you measure this?
Strength comes from building strong teams....
the WHOLE free world has a vested interest in seeing democracy succeed in iraq, Bush is not STRONG enough to bring the rest of the world to the table....
Bush's "strength" comes across to MOST of the world as conceit, and that breeds contempt......
all you have to do is check out the world news from OTHER countries...
in Japan, the PM is for Bush, but the the Japanese citizens are OVERWHELMINGLY anti-Bush..is that strength?
in Britain right now, Blair is facing some very big difficulties over moving the Black Watch trooops to Baghdad.....
Poland has announced pullout plans, starting in Jan. ...
Australia is the only place we are being supported by the people and the govt.
we have NO CHOICE, we have to WIN the whole deal in Iraq, and we will---NO MATTER who wins...
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited October 24, 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
if mike moore was such a liar, why hasn't he been slapped with a law suit?????
Lawsuit... The guy should be hung for capitalizing on the kids shooting at columbine... period.
quote:
Originally posted by Bob Frey:
Lawsuit... The guy should be hung for capitalizing on the kids shooting at columbine... period.
i agree on the bowling for columbine..
i didn't see it, don't want to.
quote:
Originally posted by Sgt. Steiner:
Did you also know that the reason we don't make flu vaccine in this country is due to a 5 million dollar lawsuit brought by a man who contracted the flu after having the shot. Did you also know who this man's attorney was?? None other than a young JOHN EDWARDS. And John Kerry has the outright NERVE to Blame Bush UNREAL
Amen to that. a fox smells its own hole first! How can those who are part of the problem be accusers? They can't. It is like a wolf trying to blend in with the sheep. =) I must admit their costume seems to be effectivley working.
And there history in the senate (or lack of) further backs up that they have no real concern for their elected offices, at least not thus far. But who knows, maybe history will prove them wrong? It seems that many americans are willing to take a chanceon the bigest longshot of all time.
[This message has been edited by futuresobjective (edited October 25, 2004).]
i might remind you that i know MUCH MORE than a little bit about vaccines and biz...
i have a copy of mdd on my desk right now that i am reading in between swatting flies...LOL
you guys are the reason i won't vote GOP this time cuz there are just too many LIES.... and you guys aren't even smart enough to tell the difference..
tort reform will just be a GREEN light for corporate america to do whatever it wants....
and i am an investor....
Enron was the proof....
seems we used to use MERCURY in our vaccines as a preservative...
sadly it is used in tooth FILLINGS as well...
so the dentists want tort reform too..
you guys are just PROVING you can't find the truth..are you investors?
Chiron is an AMERICAN Co. based in Caliornia(which is barely still USA..LOL)
any article where you see someone saying Foreign supplier( like Bush himself did in the last debate) just doesn't have the facts...
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited October 25, 2004).]
note the date on this one...hmmmmm
http://edwards.senate.gov/press/2003/1210-pr.html
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited October 25, 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Sgt. Steiner:
Did you also know that the reason we don't make flu vaccine in this country is due to a 5 million dollar lawsuit brought by a man who contracted the flu after having the shot. Did you also know who this man's attorney was?? None other than a young JOHN EDWARDS. And John Kerry has the outright NERVE to Blame Bush UNREAL
did you know that Chiron isn't the only AMERICAN fluviron producer either? LOL
i don't have to be ashamed to say i'm not voting with you...
quote:
Originally posted by Sgt. Steiner:
Well lets see here first you deny Edwards did this then you say Chiron the company he sued isnt the only one in the U.S. Now you being the smart investor should know about trends and understand if one vaccine maker gets nailed with a large lawsuit the others will react. You seem to have a reaction for anything people say you seem to post more than anyone did you know there is more to life than this message board?
Sarge, are you an investor? what brings you here????
the vaccine BIZ is not stifled from liability issues...THATS A LIE!!!!!and Cheney told it...
they have to use one egg to produce 4 to 5 vaccines....each egg has to be prepped, injected and kept at a constant temp, and kept VERY VERY clean....
the lost batch? it got infected by a bacteria.....
in other words its expensive, hard, labor intensive work .....and it doesn't pay well...
the reason they don't make more vaccines is cuz they never know how many they will sell...
now, here's where it get's tricky... cuz one of the MAIN reasons they don't know how many will sell is cuz they don't know how bad the flu season will be...
ALSO, they don't even know for sure WHICH flu strain to make the vaccine for...
i hate to tell you this, but it's kind of a feel-good vaccine...
the flu isn't ONE virus...it's millions and millions of DIFFERENT types...they are just GUESSING which ones will be bad this (or any) year....
is that a good answer?
i dont WANT to vote for Kerry ....i HAVE to...
remember when Clinton pulled the gun ban,
he had ALL Dems behind him(house and senate) that was dangerous too...
just as dangerous as leaving all GOP in charge..it's that simple..i seek balance,OK?
do you really want to see our whole system of government become JUST LIKE the military?
that's what will happen...it will only take(IMO) 3 more years of this because of how fast we get things done in the puterage
i really am not a bleeding heart...
but i do REALLY LIKE people...as long as they don't disagree with me....LOL
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited October 26, 2004).]
you have to admit the Saudis are raking it in right now..and they appear to be funding the insurgency in Iraq to keep them off-line...
the Saudis are not our friends..
i don't think Kerry will be able to fix the problem overnite either...
we NEED IRAQ OIL pumping ASAP....
Bush isn't getting that done either tho, is he?
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited October 26, 2004).]
different source here...
Congressman Joseph Crowley: House Must Withhold Funding from Two-Faced Saudi Arabia
Supports Amendment Adding Saudi Arabia to List of Terror Supporting Nations
Congressman Joseph Crowley (NY-07) was on the House floor to speak in support of an amendment offered by Congressman Anthony Weiner (NY-09) to prohibit any funds in H.R. 3288, Supplemental Appropriations for FY 2004 from being used for Ex-Im Bank programs or other loans for Saudi Arabia. Congressman Weiner's amendment added Saudi Arabia to a list that included Cuba, Libya, North Korea, Iran and Syria. The amendment failed to pass the House by a vote of 233 to 193.
more sources...
U.S. officials said terrorists from Iraq and Saudi Arabia, where a U.S. contractor also was killed recently, have used two Arabic language Web sites. One is Kuwaiti.com, and the other is called Symphoniyat Loli Nagham al-Mawaqi al-Arabiyah. A third site that has been used in the past by Islamists is a British portal to Lycos.
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited October 26, 2004).]
the war isn't nearly as simple as Bush seemed to think it would be...
i know, alot of people are making excuses, but the evidence is clear.....
we did NOT plan for an insurgency of this proportion...PERIOD...and the reason is cuz the President only listened to who he wanted to....
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/ehrenfeld200404140848.asp
The increasing violence in Iraq, supported by foreign insurgencies from Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia, will be as difficult to control as the ongoing terror activities by the Palestinians. As long as tens of millions of dollars in funding from Iran continue to fuel the thousands of unemployed and disenfranchised that have joined al-Sadr's Shiite militia, and as long as tens of millions will continue to flow from Saudi Arabia to Palestinian terror organizations, terrorism will continue.
Despite the Saudi crackdown on dissidents in the Kingdom and their claims that they are taking steps to stop both terrorism and terrorist funding, and even despite Condoleezza Rice's recent praise of the Saudi Kingdom's cooperation in the war on terrorism, Saudi money continue to fuel terrorist activities against the U.S. and Israel.
we have installed a bunch of Iraqi EX-patriates in the interim government...the people of Iraq don't really care for that...
guerrilla warfare isn't about capturing ground..it's about capturing hearts and minds.....
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited October 26, 2004).]
[This message has been edited by futuresobjective (edited October 26, 2004).]
Iraq oil future not bright despite early high hopes
Jim Krane
Associated Press
Oct. 24, 2004 12:00 AM
BAGHDAD - It was supposed to be the linchpin of Iraq's bright future: oil, and plenty of it, pooled in great reservoirs below the surface of this tormented land.
But about 250 guerrilla attacks have blown apart pipelines and other oil infrastructure, squandering between $7 billion and $12 billion in potential export revenue. Experts say the losses, as much as $490 for each of the 26 million Iraqis, have hamstrung Iraq's development.
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1024lostoil24.html
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited October 26, 2004).]
March 28, 2003, 10:44PM
U.S. says oil in Iraq to pay for rebuilding
By MIKE ALLEN and PETER BEHR
Washington Post
WASHINGTON -- The White House projected Friday that postwar Iraq will not require long-term U.S. aid, in part because of oil reserves that the Bush administration contends will offset many of the costs of reconstruction.
"The United States is committed to helping Iraq recover from the conflict, but Iraq will not require sustained aid," said a report from President Bush's Office of Management and Budget. ADVERTISEMENT
The conclusion was aimed at reassuring lawmakers who have questioned whether the $74.7 billion Bush has requested in war-related funding would come anywhere close to the true costs. Democratic officials said the commitment appears to be wildly optimistic, and said it will draw new skepticism to administration war plans as Bush's request is debated over the next two weeks.
"At every step of the way, the administration has sought to downplay the true costs of this war," a Senate Democratic leadership aide said. "This is just another example. Oil won't cover it."
OMB Director Mitchell Daniels told reporters at a breakfast that Iraq's oil and natural gas reserves have been underperforming under Saddam Hussein but still have been generating billions of dollars for Hussein. Daniels, noting the regime assets that the United States has moved to seize, said the resources for Iraq to help fund its own reconstruction "are abundant and a lot of people have simply not noticed yet."
"Iraq has all the elements to be become a successful country once again," Daniels said. "You're not starting from scratch, which was pretty much the case in Afghanistan. I think people have made too much of a loose mental transfer from one experience to the other."
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/special/iraq/1842094
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited October 26, 2004).]
Pentagon Contradicts General on Iraq Occupation Force's Size
By Eric Schmitt
New York Times
February 28, 2003
In a contentious exchange over the costs of war with Iraq, the Pentagon's second-ranking official today disparaged a top Army general's assessment of the number of troops needed to secure postwar Iraq. House Democrats then accused the Pentagon official, Paul D. Wolfowitz, of concealing internal administration estimates on the cost of fighting and rebuilding the country.
Mr. Wolfowitz, the deputy defense secretary, opened a two-front war of words on Capitol Hill, calling the recent estimate by Gen. Eric K. Shinseki of the Army that several hundred thousand troops would be needed in postwar Iraq, "wildly off the mark." Pentagon officials have put the figure closer to 100,000 troops. Mr. Wolfowitz then dismissed articles in several newspapers this week asserting that Pentagon budget specialists put the cost of war and reconstruction at $60 billion to $95 billion in this fiscal year. He said it was impossible to predict accurately a war's duration, its destruction and the extent of rebuilding afterward.
The idea that it would take several hundred thousand U.S. forces I think is far off the mark," Mr. Rumsfeld said. General Shinseki gave his estimate in response to a question at a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing on Tuesday: "I would say that what's been mobilized to this point — something on the order of several hundred thousand soldiers — are probably, you know, a figure that would be required." He also said that the regional commander, Gen. Tommy R. Franks, would determine the precise figure.
http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/issues/iraq/attack/consequences/2003/0228pentagoncontra.htm
there is sooooo much evidence that these guys just plain screwed up i can spend ALL night posting it...
we NEED this OIL, liberals are not pansies.LOL
but they aren't doing enough to clean up their own house, and we aren't putting enough pressure on them to do it..IMO
i have NO IDEA if Kerry has a WORKABLE plan to do that either..he mentioned it, but that's all i have heard....
the Saudi's killed the ring-leader supposedly, but very little follow-up comes up on my searches...
one would assume that the rest of the cell got interrogated, but...
[This message has been edited by glassman (edited October 26, 2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
FO that's ex-post facto.....
i have gone intot he White House Archives and READ READ READ..they portrayed this campaign as one that would pay for itself quickly....[b]
Iraq oil future not bright despite early high hopes
Jim Krane
Associated Press
Oct. 24, 2004 12:00 AMBAGHDAD - It was supposed to be the linchpin of Iraq's bright future: oil, and plenty of it, pooled in great reservoirs below the surface of this tormented land.
But about 250 guerrilla attacks have blown apart pipelines and other oil infrastructure, squandering between $7 billion and $12 billion in potential export revenue. Experts say the losses, as much as $490 for each of the 26 million Iraqis, have hamstrung Iraq's development.
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/1024lostoil24.html[This message has been edited by glassman (edited October 26, 2004).][/B]
Much like a citizen dependent on the country, you seem to want things with no wait. The US had the Oil productions up to prewar levels one month after sadaam was taken out, Fact (partially possible because of the condition sadam ran them, bubblegum and scotch tape). Insurgents attacked interupting the production, unfortunate fact. Will the insurgents actualyl suceed, ... It is probably the most unlikely event. Will the Iraqi peoples oil bring them money, Yes. It will bring them money, and it will happen (just not in one day like those who seek to be dependent on others want). I can not understand how people think this should be a "one day event" This is not a Tennis match. We are talking about revamping an entire country...
from the quote in your post:
"The idea that it would take several hundred thousand U.S. forces I think is far off the mark," Mr. Rumsfeld said. General Shinseki gave his estimate in response to a question at a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing on Tuesday: "I would say that what's been mobilized to this point — something on the order of several hundred thousand soldiers — are probably, you know, a figure that would be required." He also said that the regional commander, Gen. Tommy R. Franks, would determine the precise figure. "
...Well, he gave his figure, then stated that it would be up to Gen. Franks. I thought that is exactly what the President was doing, following the suggestions of people who are actually invloved in the war itself. Are you suggesting that the country should follow the suggestion of that one person? That is insame. You follow the recomentdations of those in the feild, and you take all suggestions into consideration. That is simply how it works, I do not see how the remaarks of one person who was obviously not in the position to make the decision for the country are taken as fact? Do you think we would have lost any less servicemen if there were more of our troops there? Again, I have been one of the fortunate generation, and have been given the choice I chose education, so I am privy to much of the military and how it functions. I still can not see how anyone can try to draw conclusions as to how this would have worked out? Is it a lack of faith in the troops on the ground? It certainly can not be looked at like the president is directly responsible for this. He did what any good leader would do, took under advisment the sugguestions based on the knowledge of all the people who are in the position to make a comment. But I guess it all comes down to opinion, and how you want to see it.
[This message has been edited by futuresobjective (edited October 26, 2004).]