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Posted by Bob Frey on :

Bush and Kerry Suck... Which is worst?

As long as the congress stays split I could care less who wins.

We need to keep them out of our business and pockets!

Posted by Dardadog on :

I second that. Which is worse? That would be the sneaky dude currently embarrassing the nation.

Posted by crazycanuck on :

Bush obviously... treating international treaties as 'optional' has been one great way for America to become the laughing stock
of the world.

- Kevin

p.s.

if you need examples... NAFTA, missle defence treaty, geneva,...

Posted by Dardadog on :

I don't need examples....I have plenty of my own. As a proud American, it shames me.

Posted by osubucks30 on :

I honestly think that BUSH is one of the dumbest people to EVER run ANY country!!
I bet his IQ is average at best!

------------------
Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.
Benjamin Franklin

Posted by glassman on :

i heard during the last election that he got 1100 on his SAT's- that sounds OK- 70th pctl+ or -, but if you consider his priveleged status and access to the FINEST education in the world, it is barely acceptable.....Al Gore got 1300 according to the same article....
the following web-site disputes what i heard tho...

according to CNN
http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/01/20/timep.affirm.action.tm/

If our President had the slightest sense of irony, he might have paused to ask himself, "Wait a minute. How did I get into Yale?" It wasn't because of any academic achievement: his high school record was ordinary. It wasn't because of his life experience--prosperous family, fancy prep school--which was all too familiar at Yale. It wasn't his SAT scores: 566 verbal and 640 math.

can he spell nucular???LOL

admittedly, this is not an ubiased web page....
http://www.crikey.com.au/whistleblower/2003/12/03-0004.html

i particularly like this part....

My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S. History, Enron. My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys to assure my success with the U.S. Supreme Court during my election decision.

maybe this is better....

I've broken more international treaties than any President in U.S. history.

hmmmmmmm...this part needs more DD.....

All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view.

[This message has been edited by glassman (edited September 05, 2004).]

Posted by glassman on :

here's one i was going to save for mid-October....
Wall Street tends to be Republican....BUT

Historically(since the 40's), the markets gain 7% under Republican Presidents.......

Democratic Presidents realise 11% gains...

that's better than 50% more gains under Dems.....

i know, i know, it's because the Republican policies take so long to start working.....LOL

Posted by suzainiee on :

All politicians suck. However, the worst one has to be the jerk from Georgia who wants a duel with Matthews. I bet the Republicans would like to give him back to the Democrats. He's a hoot!

Posted by DerBull on :

For all you Bush bashers, think a little deeper will ya. Our pres graduated from both Harvord and Yale. He can fly a fighter jet. Knows how to get the bad guys where they live. Never put down our soulders or condemed POW's for their service while in the hands of the enemy. Gave Americans a lot of their own money back to keep the economy going and stalled a deprestion
after 9/11.

Are these the actions of a dummie? Why do you guys think a Texan can't get things done? Ran a Pro ball club, a state, a country... just an average IQ, Riiight. Tell me another good one. I need a good laugh before the market open today.

George W. is not afarid to take a stand or to stand up for what is right. I could go on, but for my money I'll stick with a winner. This world will be better off with Bush at the helm. IMHO

------------------
Papaw
"look'n for the green"

Posted by glassman on :

Harvard and Yale---he got in on the affirmative action program...LOL

the one for the silver spoons

and i heard he had some problems showing up for work when he flew those fighters....

his basebal team??? what happened to that deal?? think deeper and do some more DD....

quite frankly, i like Texans, how did Bush put it?? oh yeah...

loose quote
Some people say I have a bit of a swagger, down in Texas, we call that walking.

soounds like fighting words..that's all we are hearing anymore...
only problem fighting the war on terrorism has a lot more to do with Stateamanship than it does with the military....

[This message has been edited by glassman (edited September 08, 2004).]

Posted by DerBull on :

quote:
Originally posted by glassman:
Harvard and Yale---he got in on th eaffirmative action program...LOL
the one for the silver spoons
and i heard he had some problems showing up for work when he flew those fighters....
his basebal team??? what happened to that deal?? think deeper and do some more DD....

uuuh He made money?

------------------
Papaw
"look'n for the green"

Posted by glassman on :

making money doesn't make you a good leader of the FREE WORLD....

you forgot tomention his oil company...

it is also not very clear where his money came from....

Do you remeber H. Ross Perot? He ran against Bush Sr., he pulled out of the race in July as i recall, he said that he was concerned about his families' welfare. I took it with a grain of salt at the time. Now, listening to the tone of the cuurent campaign i'm not so sure......
I voted for Bush Sr., NOT Clinton or Gore.....EVER

Posted by DerBull on :

Hey Glassman 'Luv you man' keep up the good work. You and Dardadog are two of my favorite posters to follow. We are not as far apart as this thread makes us look. I just think Bush will do better than Kerry.

Good trade'n today and good luck, enjoyed the reply.

------------------
Papaw
"look'n for the green"

Posted by glassman on :

politics is better than baseball, but not quite as good as NASCAR...LOL

dog will disagree i'm sure, he likes baseball...

Posted by Dardadog on :

Nah, I'm a football guy. I think Bush got a drunk driving ticket in Texas a few years back didn't he.........in a state that allowed open intoxicants. Get a speeding ticket with a cold one in your crotch kinda place and no mention of the lone star. How drunk u gotta be??????????? I just don't like the crooked monopolizin' prick and I think what is going on now is for his own self centered reasons. I don't put down the service men and women in action. But S. Korea and Vietnam both showed that you can'tree another nation for them. He ranted about Saddam and his killing his own people? I don't see where this dictator is that far removed from that dictator. Laws are made lately that seem a little to much "because George see's things that way" for me.

------------------
Dog

[This message has been edited by Dardadog (edited September 08, 2004).]

Posted by glassman on :

sounds like the Lt Governor of Texas (during Bush's Nam days) is going to say something about how he got Bush in to the Champagne Squadron during Nam...not really news, but the Dems are going to prop him up there and he will give his speech...LOL

on a more serious note....

Mr Greenspan (my hero), gave testimony today....
he isn't painting a very pretty picture of Bush's domestic economic policies....

FOX news might as well just go ahead and call itself the Republican Party Campaign Station.....
watching this reporter go on and on and on about how great the Bush Bro's are for handing out ice and groceries....

analysis of the good cop, bad cop routine.....

LOL now we know why Cheney doesn't go by the name Richard...LOL
and Bush is the good cop.... can't pass up a campaign stop to show himself in front of another DISASTER...... in my opinion that's just his job(to help) doesn't make him a hero like these PUMPERS at FOX try to make him out...
last hurrican i heard some complaints about how much of a hassle presidential security causes in these stricken areas....i gues that's OK in this one????

[This message has been edited by glassman (edited September 08, 2004).]

Posted by timberman on :

Glass I hope your being sarcastic about Greenspan.

Posted by glassman on :

i'm not sure what you mean...i am serious about Greensapn being the REAL reason we are not in a very bad recession......

Posted by timberman on :

Many people blame Clinton, some blame Bush, for the recession. The fact of the matter is that Greenspan in my opinion caused the recession. He raised interest rates to high and held them there for too long (There were other factors too but that was what started the down trend). That choked the economy. Things are on the right track now, not to say they couldn't be better, but whose to say what might happen in the future.

Posted by glassman on :

i can't really answer whether he was was too slow to lower the interst rates...
i do know that if he had lowered them sooner it would have helped me in the late nineties when i really needed it....
but i made it work out on my own anyway...
the economy isn't something the President can DIRECTLY affect IMO. They are critical to create a psychlological climate, and they have considerable power thru directives, but in the end, it's up to US.
the tax breaks tha came thru last year might help a little, but we still have to pay the bill sooner or later....
IMO, we NEED the interest rates to remain low with this deficit....

Posted by timberman on :

Yes I agree I don't like the deficit either. They should be illegal or close to it.

Posted by Wallace#1 on :

I am sad to say that I will not vote for either Bush or Kerry. Probably write in James Monroe and know I had a winner. I will, however, vote to make the House and Senate of different parties. Checks and balances are needed so the executive branch cannot be run rampant by either party.

Posted by glassman on :

checks and balances....LOL they play mean in front of the camera and in public, but they are sharing the same champagne glasses behind closed doors...LOL

Posted by Wallace#1 on :

Well, then, I guess we will just have to trust the Supreme Court to make the right Presidential choices for us! LOL

Hey, what the hell does "Suck" mean anyway?
LOL

[This message has been edited by Wallace#1 (edited September 08, 2004).]

Posted by timberman on :

What ever happened to Pat Paulson? He used to run every time.

Posted by Dardadog on :

quote:
Originally posted by DerBull:
For all you Bush bashers, think a little deeper will ya. Our pres graduated from both Harvord and Yale. He can fly a fighter jet. Knows how to get the bad guys where they live. Never put down our soulders or condemed POW's for their service while in the hands of the enemy. Gave Americans a lot of their own money back to keep the economy going and stalled a deprestion
after 9/11.

Are these the actions of a dummie? Why do you guys think a Texan can't get things done? Ran a Pro ball club, a state, a country... just an average IQ, Riiight. Tell me another good one. I need a good laugh before the market open today.

George W. is not afarid to take a stand or to stand up for what is right. I could go on, but for my money I'll stick with a winner. This world will be better off with Bush at the helm. IMHO

OK. Thought a lil' deeper. Dug a lil' deeper too. He's a fighter pilot alright.......

Memos Show Bush Suspended From Flying

44 minutes ago Add White House - AP to My Yahoo!

By PETE YOST, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Newly unearthed memos state George W. Bush was suspended from flying for the Texas Air National Guard during the Vietnam war because he failed to meet Guard standards and failed to take his annual flight physical as required.

AP Photo

Reuters
Slideshow: President Bush

Latest headlines:
· Bush under renewed pressure over Vietnam-era service
AFP - 1 hour, 35 minutes ago

· Kerry Links Iraq War, U.S. Economic Woes
AP - 1 hour, 54 minutes ago

· Kerry: 'W' in Bush's Name Stands for Wrong
AP - 2 hours, 14 minutes ago

All Election Coverage

The suspension came as Bush was trying to arrange a transfer to non-flying status with a unit in Alabama so he could work on a political campaign there.

A memo written a year later referred to one military official "pushing to sugar coat" Bush's annual evaluation.

"On this date I ordered that 1st Lt. Bush be suspended from flight status due to failure to perform to USAF/TexANG standards and failure to meet annual physical examination ... as ordered," says an Aug. 1, 1972 memo by Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, who is now dead.

The same memo notes that Bush was trying to transfer to non-flying status out of state and recommends that the Texas unit fill his flying slot "with a more seasoned pilot from the list of qualified Vietnam pilots that have rotated."

The Vietnam-era documents add details to the bare-bones explanation of Bush's aides over the years that he was suspended simply because he decided to skip his flight physical.

The White House said in February that it had released all records of Bush's service, but one of Killian's memos stated it was "for record" and another directing Bush to take the physical exam stated that it was "for 1st Lt. George W. Bush."

"I can't explain why that wouldn't be in his record, but they were found in Jerry Killian's personal records," White House communications director Dan Bartlett told CBS's "60 Minutes II," which first obtained the memos.

Bartlett said Bush's superiors granted permission to train in Alabama in a non-flying status and that "many of the documents you have here affirm just that."

A memo dated May 19, 1972, five days after Bush was supposed to have completed his physical, summarizes a telephone discussion with Bush about how he "can get out of coming to drill from now through November." It says Bush was "told he could do ET for three months or transfer." ET referred to equivalent training, a procedure for meeting training requirements without attending regularly scheduled drills.

The same memo says "we talked abut him getting his flight physical situation fixed" and quotes Bush as saying he would "do that in Alabama if he stays in a flight status." It also says, I advised him of our investment in him and his commitment."

Democratic Party chairman Terry McAuliffe said, "George W. Bush's cover story on his National Guard service is rapidly unraveling. ... George W. Bush needs to answer why he regularly mislead the American people about his time in the Guard and who applied political pressure on his behalf to have his performance reviews 'sugarcoated'"

Bartlett told CBS, "As it says in your own documents, President Bush (news - web sites) talked to the commanders about the fact that he'd be transferring to a unit ... in Alabama that didn't fly that plane," the F-102, the type Bush was trained in.

Using only last names, one of the newly disclosed documents points to sharp disagreement among Bush's superiors in Texas over how to evaluate his performance for the period from mid-1972 through mid-1973.

"Stuart has obviously pressured Hedges more about Bush," Killian wrote on Aug. 18, 1973. "I'm having trouble running interference and doing my job — Harris gave me a message today from Grip (a headquarters unit) regarding Bush's OETR (officer efficiency training report) and Stuart is pushing to sugar coat it. Bush wasn't here during rating period and I don't have any comments from 187th in Alabama. I will not rate."

The memo concludes: "Harris took the call from Grip today. I'll backdate but won't rate. Harris agrees."

At the time, Walter B. Stuart was commander of the Texas National Guard; Lt. Col. Bobby Hedges was one of Bush's superiors in Texas who two years earlier had rated Bush an outstanding young pilot; and Lt. Col. William D. Harris Jr. was another superior of Bush's.

Records released this year when Bush's military service re-emerged as a campaign issue contain no evidence that he showed up for duty at all for five months in mid-1972 and document only a few occasions later that year.

Asked about Killian's statement in a memo about the military's investment in Bush, Bartlett told CBS: "For anybody to try to interpret or presume they know what somebody who is now dead was thinking in any of these memos, I think is very difficult to do."

......and the republicans have the nerve to bring up military service issues in the mud they are slinging. What a joke. Yeah, he's the guy I want leading the charge.

------------------
Dog

Posted by Dardadog on :

I am proud of the american soldiers who represent this country. I am ashamed of the cowardly self-serving individual who is represented as my nations leader. I don't make any claims that Kerry is "My Guy". I don't make any claims that Kerry is "The Fix". I stand by all my claims that George is a dangerous, pompous, greedy, cowardly man. This veterans flag will stay in the closet four more years if he manages to steal another election.

In the immortal words of Forrest Gump.........."an' thas all I haf ta say 'bout that.

Dar Willits
Da Dog

Posted by timberman on :

And for fairness here is some info on Kerry's record: http://www.opinioneditorials.com/guestcontributors/fsalvato_20040909.html

Posted by Dardadog on :

You would be hard pressed to find any politician wannabe or rich kid during the nam era that didn't try ducking. I don't mean to polish anything for Kerry here. But fact remains unchanged. He went. George didn't. Tell me. Why was George so gung ho to head off to war thirty some years later? Because his ass was staying home. Osama slapped us. George took advantage of situation to go avenge dad. Excuse......he sent young americans to avenge dad. To George, every single one of us is expendable to the point he wouldn't lose a minutes sleep over it. Only place not expendible. The Ranch. Kerry's a dipchit (as are most of todays politicians), I'll still give ya that. But George is a cowardly sneaky all for the rich prick. The overpayments to companies in Iraq? At home here in business, that chit is called E-M-B-E-Z-Z-L-I-N-G!!!!! Someone goes to jail. It's called white collar crime. They chuckled when caught and didn't even apologize for the mismanagement of OUR money. Did they even pay it all back yet? Interest on that kind of money is worth dragging your feet on. He's a crook. Period. Only ones benefitting from his period in office are the rich buddies who back him. If you believe otherwise, I got some oceanfront for you here in Arizona.

------------------
Dog

Posted by Dardadog on :

He found Saddam in a rat hole. I ask again. Is Osama the "Where's Waldo" of the Al Queda? Biggest problem for Saddam was that the Bush family hated him more than they do Osama.

------------------
Dog

Posted by Dardadog on :

I'm sick of yakkin' about this chit......hey Glass......wanna be my runnin' mate?

------------------
Dog

Posted by glassman on :

heck no... i just wanna be an advisor....LOL

Posted by timberman on :

He might not run with ya. I hear he's thinking about being a bigtime chicken farmer.

Posted by timberman on :

Some kind of tick murderin roosters I think.lol

Posted by glassman on :

i hope you enjoyed that one timberman, i really liked those birds....more interesting to watch than the politicians on TV--esp the ones on C-span...LOL

it was all fun and games till somebody reported us to the super secret shadow faction of PETA,
the SPCI.....

The Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Insects.......LOL

[This message has been edited by glassman (edited September 09, 2004).]

Posted by keithsan on :

quote:
Originally posted by Dardadog:
I'm sick of yakkin' about this chit......hey Glass......wanna be my runnin' mate?

I'd vote for you 2 i know the dog wants to kick some a$$ when he's wronged, and both of ya will keep my taxes down and money in my pocket!

Posted by ohdagagain on :

Just curious, are any of you Viet-Nam Vets? Just wondering what you think of Kerry, I personally know about 32 of them(Viet-Nam vets), and they pretty much all agree that they would rather see Kerry hanging than in the white house. But I saw a disturbing bumber sticker that said "Viet-Nam Vets for Kerry". Just wanting your opinion.
Hope every one is doing well. Took a week vacation to celebrate my one year anniversary. Went to Niagara Falls (Canadian side). Luckily all the Canucks I met were nothing butgreat folks and nothing like the picture Kevin painted of the Canandians. Even some of the guest at the bed and breakfast were from different regions of Canada and I was impressed with their politeness, hospitality, and intelect.
If anyone is heading there I recommend http://www.niagarainn.com/
Frank

Posted by keithsan on :

quote:
Originally posted by ohdagagain:
Just curious, are any of you Viet-Nam Vets? Just wondering what you think of Kerry, I personally know about 32 of them(Viet-Nam vets), and they pretty much all agree that they would rather see Kerry hanging than in the white house. But I saw a disturbing bumber sticker that said "Viet-Nam Vets for Kerry". Just wanting your opinion.
Hope every one is doing well. Took a week vacation to celebrate my one year anniversary. Went to Niagara Falls (Canadian side). Luckily all the Canucks I met were nothing butgreat folks and nothing like the picture Kevin painted of the Canandians. Even some of the guest at the bed and breakfast were from different regions of Canada and I was impressed with their politeness, hospitality, and intelect.
If anyone is heading there I recommend http://www.niagarainn.com/
Frank

polls show vets are for bush 60-40 or so
there arae groups for both ie. vets for bush, vets for kerry

Posted by Dardadog on :

quote:
Originally posted by ohdagagain:
Just curious, are any of you Viet-Nam Vets? Just wondering what you think of Kerry, I personally know about 32 of them(Viet-Nam vets), and they pretty much all agree that they would rather see Kerry hanging than in the white house. But I saw a disturbing bumber sticker that said "Viet-Nam Vets for Kerry". Just wanting your opinion.
Hope every one is doing well. Took a week vacation to celebrate my one year anniversary. Went to Niagara Falls (Canadian side). Luckily all the Canucks I met were nothing butgreat folks and nothing like the picture Kevin painted of the Canandians. Even some of the guest at the bed and breakfast were from different regions of Canada and I was impressed with their politeness, hospitality, and intelect.
If anyone is heading there I recommend http://www.niagarainn.com/
Frank

I was in from '78 to '82. Navy Search and Rescue. Spent most of my time assigned to Marine Recon Unit crawling around Nicaragua. 18 missions.

------------------
Dog

Posted by glassman on :

ohda.....
i have PERSONALLY known HUNDREDS...... i was a gunners mate USN in the first half of the 80's and i was surrounded by nam vets....
i enlisted under Carter WHILE we had HOSTAGES in Iran....one of them was the father of one of my classmates in high school....

i have tried to avoid this, but i guess you NEED to hear it...
those with short memories are doomed to repeat their failures...
KERRY testified BEFORE congress...POLITICIANS ASKED him to.

he told the truth....there were no lies there....
do a google on WILLIAM CALLEY-- http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/vietnam/trenches/mylai.html

this was not an isolated incident....

marine recon people will tell you it was the truth (several have told me).....they were the men who got sent out to do the REAL wet work in the mud....
these fly-boys dropped bombs from what altitude?
IF they got shot down then they had to deal with what the grunts did EVERY DAY.....

it's not pretty, but it's what we pay them to do...

a republican, NIXON ended the war....and look what happened to him.....

there was never any plan to WIN in Nam, and there is NO plan to win this war(except they say we already did?)

i can't speak for dog, BUT, from my perspective i'm the MOST P-O'ed about the fact that my parents inherited a pretty nice nation....since i am the last of the baby boomers, i am inheriting what appers to me to be an EMPTY SHELL...............

[This message has been edited by glassman (edited September 10, 2004).]

Posted by timberman on :

Thanks to you both for serving (and all others that have served) to preserve freedom for all of us.

Posted by Wallace#1 on :

Glass wrote:
"i was a gunners mate USN in the first half of the 80's and i was surrounded by nam vets...."

Now, that does sound a bit strange! LOL Just kidding, Glass.

Problems I have with Bush are that he has screwed the little guy with taxes, hurt the elderly with medicare, ruined our economy with a huge deficit, plays patsy cake with donors of funds to the party, pushes against abortion rights, destroying VA benefits and is basically a loose cannon.

Kerry? Well, I don't know what he might have done in Nam either way, but I can tell you it was extremely dangerous no matter when US military personnel were there. I was there in the early 60s when it wasn't too bad but would not want to do it again. However, I DID DO MY DUTY to my country. I just don't like Kerry for his record in the Senate, for his phony statements about what he will do to the wealthy (when he is wealthy and his wife is/or near a billionaire), his tax positions and just the fact that he is a dedicated politician and plays all the same games.

My generation is just before the war babies, but I agree with Glass about the "EMPTY SHELL'. Kind of glad I don't have to worry about it much longer.

Posted by glassman on :

the campaign strategy Bush is using ticks me off...
Kerry is caught on a fork here....
if he says the war is bad...he hurts the troops...if he says the war is good, he's a Bush supporter....

IMO Kerry isn't going to fix the country....

as long as Iraq is occupied with American troops and NOT UN troops we fuel the terror fire...

it's that SIMPLE

and i doubt Bush will ever be able to garner UN support----
so the war on terror becomes a self-feeding bon-fire that has no end....

the pooch has already been impregnated, now we have to deal with the puppies.....

[This message has been edited by glassman (edited September 11, 2004).]

Posted by flora888 on :

We shlod reelect Mr Clinton again if it can be to make our live better

Posted by glassman on :

hi flora. it's been a VERY long time since i saw your posts....nice to see you back...

Posted by DuncanIdaho on :

The way the country is divided, any Democrat president will be despised by the self-proclaimed right wing as "liberal america", and vice versa for Republicans and the self-proclaimed left wing. What's the point of democracy if you only have two practical choices and people don't want either of them? What good is democracy if half the country doesn't vote? You see democracy, I see a centuries-old oligarchy of business men. Someone said once that politics is that shadow cast by big business (I'm sure I butchered the quote lol). just my two cents...a real democracy in a country of civil people wouldn't let the government arrest someone without charges and hold them without a lawyer.

Posted by osubucks30 on :

BUSH is running on the record of lowering taxes! Yeah the federal taxes went down but here where I live the local taxes have went up and there is yet another school levy on the ballot!!!

Posted by glassman on :

according to Bush's home town, Crawford Texas, Kerry is better ...LOL
http://www.iconoclast-texas.com/Columns/Editorial/editorial39.htm

Posted by Dardadog on :

http://www.jibjab.com/

------------------
'wid ma mind on ma money an' ma money on ma MIND!!!!!!!

Do Da Due!!!

RUFF!!!

Dog