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Author Topic: Utah Gov. Signs Naked Short Selling Bill
Purl Gurl
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Utah Gov. Signs Naked Short Selling Bill

SALT LAKE CITY (AP) - Over the objection of Wall Street firms, Gov. Jon Huntsman signed a bill Friday that cracks down on naked short selling with state fines for brokers who accumulate too many unsettled trades in any company's shares.

The bill was written for Utah-based Internet retailer Overstock.com Inc., which complains it has been a target of a practice that traders dismiss as a tiny aberration in the markets.

"This bill is good for business, particularly small- and mid-sized cap companies," Huntsman's deputy chief of staff, Mike Mower, said Friday.

Tony Taggart, who handles litigation for the Securities Industry Association, had promised a lawsuit if Huntsman signed the bill, saying of the threat: "It's not a risk -- it will happen."

Taggart said the measure approved by the Utah Legislature late Wednesday caught the industry by surprise. He did not immediately return calls Friday.

"We dropped the ball, all the brokerage firms," said a financial adviser for a major Wall Street firm with operations in Salt Lake City, who insisted on anonymity because he was ordered by the company not to speak about the matter to reporters.

The bill's sponsor, Sen. Curtis Bramble, R-Orem, said Overstock.com was "the poster child" for victims of trading abuse. He said the bill could help other emerging companies that can be vulnerable to short selling.

Short sellers borrow stock hoping the share price declines so they can return it to brokers and pocket the difference. Overstock.com contends it has been a target of naked short selling, where brokers send IOUs they can't honor through a stock clearinghouse when they run out of shares to lend for short selling.

Overstock.com CEO Patrick Byrne says many brokers never settle these trades, allowing short sellers to profit without having to assume risk. The practice tends to lower a company's share price by artificially creating more sellers than buyers.

Bramble said brokerage houses never spoke up against the bill in the months it has been languishing at the Utah Capitol. It finally passed Wednesday during a special session with little debate.

The Utah law requires brokers to regularly disclose trades that fail to settle, adding to paperwork they say is bothersome. Fines for violations start at $10,000 a day and can increase to cover the sum total of all unsettled trades.

Utah Securities Director Wayne Klein said he was prepared to start enforcing the law July 1 and was looking into allegations of abusive short selling.

Klein said his investigation would go beyond Overstock.com's complaints to the lending of shares by brokers without the knowledge of a share's owner, which is allowed under standard customer contracts at brokerage firms.

Klein said it can result in two people voting on proxy proposals or for a company's directors when only one person is the legal share owner. He said some companies adjust for the problem by "prorating" extra votes to shares, but "if that happened in an election for political office, we'd all cry foul."

Shares of Overstock.com rose 65 cents, or 3 percent, to close Friday at $22.66 on the Nasdaq Stock Market.

Kira

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Purl Gurl
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As some of you know, over the past few years I have
sent out more than five-thousand emails, hundreds
of snail mails, made lots of phone calls, to almost
all in Washington, governors and all California
politicians, either in support of or in opposition
to a variety of topics.

I urge you to lobby Bush, Congress, Senate,
governors, representatives, assemblypersons,
news media, lobby to have this type of bill
enacted in your home state.

You know I will. I expect you to do the same.
Only takes a minute to write an email, does
not take too long to copy your email and send
it to various politicians whose email addresses
are available online, your state offices or
for National, here,

http://www.congress.org/congressorg/home/

http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm

http://www.parenthub.com/family/time/people/congress.htm


If you do nothing, do not dare come cry-babying
to me about short selling and losing your money.

Kira

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T e x
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this is true...

All reps need to know more and more people are trading, and we expect rules n regs to be followed. The "powers" have had this world to themselves for centuries, now, and can't get used to the idea that the peeps are in the game for real...

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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Purl Gurl
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"Shares of Overstock.com rose 65 cents, or 3 percent,
to close Friday at $22.66 on..."

Pretend, will you? Suppose this type of bill
is enacted in some states, a trend begins and
more states make motions to enact a bill.

Based on Overstock gaining three percent as a
result of the Utah law, should all markets,
should a majority of stocks enjoy only a
two percent gain, how much capital gain
would this represent for share holders?

When the DOW gains two percent, what amount
is the market capitalization gain in dollars?

Kira

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Bob Frey
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Thinking the dow is only like 3percent.

Other sectors may post larger gains?

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glassman
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it doesn't surprise me to see a truly Conservative State taking the initiative:

i too have written many letters to my Senators and Congressmen....

i have one of my accounts with a brokerage house that made 900 million NET profits one year since 2000 and paid no taxes that year at all.... in other words these guys know what they are doing.
yet when i asked them about it? they denied any knowledge of naked shorting even as the SHO list rules were being prepared...

In 2003 alone, 46 companies paid zero or less in federal income taxes. These 46 companies told their shareholders they earned U.S. pretax profits in 2003 of $42.6 billion, yet they received tax rebates totaling $5.4 billion. Almost as many companies, 42, paid no tax in 2002, reporting $43.5 billion in pretax profits, yet receiving $4.9 billion in tax rebates. From 2001 to 2003, the number of no-tax companies jumped from 33 to 46, an increase of 40 percent.


MY DD indicates that the brokerage houses are just as guilty as the market makers... in fact? it may very well be the *borkerage* houses that are doing it and the MMs just go along because they have no choice.
being an "outsider"? i do not have access to the crucial data i need to make a final determination.


what i can say with confidence is that shares regularly come available on the market (particiularly otcbb and pinks) before they are actually issued...
as soon as a company prepares the filings? the shares hit the market, even tho the shares will not be issued for months or are "restricted"...

SMTR was a perfect example that i watched every step of the way last year....

i am of the opinion that Bush's Social Security revamping was squashed because "privatisation" would have brought more government regulation of this practice in particular

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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glassman
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here is a list of co's that have been "naked shorted" continuously for over 100 days:

MSO 348 days
KKD 348
GLBC 348
MDWYQ 339
MAMT 339
HHDG 339
TMRT 291
OSTK 276
AGEN 237
MDTL 202
TRLG 184
FFH 174
FMD 159 days
MCHX 156
CKCM 147
IAWK 142
PEIX 139
SFCC 110
TASR 110

note:
the list has only been being compiled for 348 days....

does this qualify as counterfeiting?

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Purl Gurl
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Glassman, you will recall a couple of years back
during my last rant on naked short selling, some
California state finance reports were provided
showing a twelve-billion dollar deficit which
was directly contributed to the "dot com bubble."

That is in our California financial reports. That
is just for a single state.

Many who are not familiar with markets believe
this was just over zealous investors. Nope. Most
of what happened is a direct result of market
manipulation and naked short selling. Manipulation
through pump and dump scams, manipulation through
naked short selling.

That is when I wrote several thousand emails on
this to anybody and everybody. You will also
recall I became involved in the Overstock and
Pink Sheets dot com efforts, and prompted readers
to participate.

This Utah bill is a direct result of that
grass roots campaign many of us supported.
We made a difference. Did you?

If you, the reader, do nothing, you will get
nothing, save for the shaft sans KY Jelly.

I am absolutely burnt out on being screwed
by Wall Street, and yes, as Glassman indicates,
these crooks are not offshore types wearing
Bermuda Shorts. These crooks are the well known
investment firms, brokerage houses, financial
institutions, banks and, most disgusting, our
SEC and associated organizations.

Join Glassman, our friends and me. Get up,
stand up, write, speak out, do your part to
stop this raping of American families.

This is about the future of America's children, yes?

Kira

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glassman
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it's also about getting small corporate entities "off the ground"

needless to say? GE doesn't get naked shorted...

the next great "investment boom" SHOULD be the taking place right now in the bio-tech sector...

we are undergoing a major technical revulotion in science that makes the silicon "boom" look tame...

yet? i am watching dozens and dozens of small gene discovery companies failing to get investment capital. there is a lot of intellectual property being buried by the larger corporate players...

there is alot of politics involved, but the essence is that the major pharma co's don't really want "cures" they want to sell RX's every month....

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Purl Gurl
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Reality Check.

Who is in charge of the SEC?

Christopher Cox. I ranted on this last year
and urged readers to protest. He was confirmed
anyhow, being Bush's main man.

Christopher Cox, amongst his history, was
indicted for the worst Ponzi Scheme ever
perpetrated in California. He was indicted
in a case for ripping off thousands of the
elderly for millions and millions of dollars.

Those elderly people lost everything.

He is a friend to Worldcom and Enron. Shortly
after his indictment, he wrote and lobbied for
laws which enabled Worldcom, Enron and others
to perpetrate the greatest financial crimes
of American history. Cox helped those crooks.

He is the chairman of the SEC.

This is what happens when you do not stand
up in defense of our American ideals; you
toss our children to the wolves.

Kira

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Purl Gurl
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Just think, Glassman, somewhere out there, chances
are there is a tiny company, struggling, being
pounded by Wall Street for financial greed, a
tiny company on the verge of discovering a cure
for many types of cancer, a cure which will never
come because greed for money amongst the rich
and elite, destroyed that tiny company.

Just think, a cure which might save the life
of your child in the future, a cure never to be
because of financial greed.

When you do nothing to better our world, you
do, in fact, toss your children to the wolves.

Decades back my husband and me made a pact our
child would never be poor, would never suffer
poverty, would never go hungry, like we did.

Today, our girl is worth over two-million dollars.
Nonetheless, she still has to work, she still
must pay her way, she still must earn her keep.

She is learning how to fend for herself, how
to fend for our future grandchildren.

What are you, the reader, doing for your kids?

Kira

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T e x
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ran across this awhile back, first return in Google --> "Christopher Cox defendant":

http://www.americanprogressaction.org/site/pp.asp?c=klLWJcP7H&b=736515

they may be loony tunes, I dunno...but perhaps a starting place for those wishing to learn the background of SEC boss...

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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glassman
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Recently, the DTCC acknowledged that 1.5 percent of the dollar volume of stocks traded daily end up "fails to deliver," or FTDs. In all, those FTDs — dubbed "counterfeit" stocks by shorting foes — can tally as high as $6 billion a day

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Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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renrob05
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glassman ...sorry off topic do you trade anymore?
You don't post any pics?
just wondering.

--------------------
Renee
Easy money!

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glassman
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yes, i still trade...
however? i am not currently trading any stocks that are volatile enought to justify posting...

i did get into a bunch of gold when it was obvious that oil wasn't coming back down below 50$ and that took a lot of my play money off the market.... and put some into my (expensive) glass melting equipment
have you seen a natural gas or propane bill lately? LOL


unfortunatley i ended up (thru no fault of my own) in the deep deep south, so you can imagine how uncomfortable it might be to stand in front of a 2200 degree furnace bringing glass up to liquid state when it's 94 degrees by 11:00AM local time [Wink]

think of it like superduper marshmallow roasting [Big Grin]

i will probably have some stuff on e-bay later this year, but it's really hard to do glassart justice with photos... much less putting those photos online...they just don't have the same "sparkle"?

i refuse to post picks that i haven't done enough work on...
even posting daytrades? i was using three monitors to find the picks and watching several service feeds and monitoring several services... before i "called one"

in other words? i wasn't just watching MSNBC and repeating what i heard...

i found most of my quick picks simply by using microcaptrade and dardog was who put me onto them....
the key to finding hot pennies is not share volume, it's number of trades..... [Wink]

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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T e x
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OT: Glass, are you saying "volume" build charts, trades entices MMs?

for real...gotta good example from today that I'm trying to figure out,,,

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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bbramma
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Nice post Purl on the Gov. signing bill SB3004 in my state today.
Brent

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TickTrader
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Thanks for the posts, all. Wonderful news. Talk about dredging up old memories, wow.

Purl Gurl, the 'dot com bubble' was a work of art, IMO. Greenspan opened the door and legitimized the activity you so appropriately labeled, declaring the entire 'dot com' industry without value. That was... 1992??? Called to publicly expand on his unsupported opinion, he reiterated (word for word) his statement. I was able to exit my tech stocks with profits intact. What a sharkfest.

Concerning OTC (bb and pinks), most young folks don't realize that 'fail to deliver' came into existence with electronic trading - you either had a cert or you didn't. That concept remained intact - buy only, no short sell - for retail traders. Of course, to prevent overzealous investment from driving up a company's value, the powers were given unrestricted authority to sell short. And what a sharkfest this has been!

There are very important dates beginning to converge... this summer. This Utah bill is extraordinarily timely in that respect. With the otc short interest made public, it will be interesting to see if grandfathered FTDs are reported. I have yet to find evidence of these positions being closed out.

In defense of the SEC, there are employees that will go the distance with you to uphold regs - despite Cox. Or maybe because of him? Or maybe there really are good people that want to get it right? Since many of them are pre-Cox, I tend to go with the good people scenario.

Stepping off the soapbox... I could go on about this forever. Thanks again, all, for reminding me that others do care and actively work for improvement.

--------------------
ticked

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Purl Gurl
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Pay no mind to my being in here at five in the
morning. I know, I know, today is Saturday and
a three day weekend. Financial world out there
does not know this, however. You must work hard
at this to be a winner.

Readers are cautioned, according to those in the
know over in the NDOL thread, I am nothing more
than a paid basher, so much so, one of them filed
complaints with the SEC about my unlawful bashing.

Yes, Ticktrader, this all came to a head in the
ninties, especially mid to late ninties. The
California financial report I cite is 2000/2001
year and 2001/2002 year. Governor Gray Davis was
terminated by Arnold, easily, because of public
dissatisfaction, a public periodically sitting
in darkness because of rolling blackouts.

I voted for Arnold. Turns out Arnold is no better
and has only muscle between his ears and a history
of groping women.

SHO and a NASD rule came along and you will find
my name in SEC records sharing critical comments
along with my articles here discussing this. Both
rules were a step in the right direction but are
toothless; those rules rely on self-reporting.

Net effect is some slowing down of naked shorting
out of Canada, Bermuda Islands, Virgin Islands and
other locations. However, Wall Street, which is
all financial institutions across America, was
empowered with a better ablility to naked short.
Self-reporting does not work and there are no
devices to enforce those new rules.

Almost all well known financial institutions are
attempting to blackmail Utah. Most are threatening
to remove offices from Utah and lawsuits are a
certainty. Wall Street is whining and crying like
one of the boys here, "How dare you tell the truth."

Every year and this is true, billions of dollars
are removed from each state of our union through
naked shorting and other scams. This money is
moved offshore by Wall Street and politicians.
Offshore American money is now approaching a
good one-hundred-trillion dollars. A majority
of politicians maintain offshore accounts to
evade paying taxes. Dick Cheney, during the
last election cycle, confessed to this as did
Edwards of the Kerry-Edwards political team.

What happens? States become near bankrupt, our
American families end up footing the bill despite
false "tax cuts." Had Arnold Muscle Brains lobbied
for laws to curtail financial crime as I urged him
and California politicians to do, our financial
crisis would be over and California would have a
budget surplus. This did not and will not happen
because politicians are in the pockets of Wall St.

My "false tax cuts" are clear to all save for those
idiots who voted for Bush. Our president announces
big tax cuts but conceals from America a majority
of families pay more in taxes because of the hidden
Alternative Minimum Tax rule.

Seems I am bird walking around topic wise, but all
of this ties together. Bill Donaldson, former SEC
chairman, was fired by Bush because Donaldson was
doing a great job at cracking down on financial
crimes. Donaldson was moving too close to nailing
Bush and Wall Street for being the crooks they are.

Bush fires Donaldson and seats a known criminal,
Christopher Cox, a man who will do everything in
his power to enable more Worldcom and Enron type
activities, and Cox will profit doing so. This
problem of naked shorting, problem of financial
crimes, both have increased under Cox and will
continue to increase.

Do not ever believe our government, State and
Federal are doing us any favors. An exception
is the brave governor of Utah who is now in
strong disfavor with Wall Street and Capitol
Hill types. He will suffer for being a good
and decent man.

Bottom line is ultimate responsibility for
protecting America falls on our shoulders,
your shoulders. You might think I should be
a spin doctor, an art at which I am good.
Nonetheless what I write about, what I rant
about, is old fashion Davy Crockett common
sense truth.

This responsibility we shoulder includes
protecting our children's future. More of our
American families are becoming bankrupt, more
families are falling to poverty, more families
cannot afford a home, more families cannot even
afford to drive to work. This word "families"
softens the impact, none care.

Each year more of our children fall to bankruptcy,
more of our children fall to poverty, more of
our children fall victim to financial crimes.

This word "children" changes the impact.

We of the Baby Boom generation effected the most
radical changes in America of history, beginning
with Rock N Roll and Vietnam. Now we are old and
dying off. Our children will soon be alone and
forced to fend for themselves. Who will protect
our children, punk rockers and goth vampires?

When you, the reader, sit there on your fat
McDonald's butt and do nothing, you, personally,
are victimizing your children and all children.
You are placing our children's future at risk.

Get up, stand up, take action. Writing some email,
making some phone calls, urging others to help,
is so effortless. Join some grassroots efforts
and make a difference. Do this for our children.

Kira - paid basher

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Purl Gurl
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Incidently, I hold the record here at Allstocks for
the most SEC complaints against me being filed
by participants here.

I am so frightened! Ignorant F-wads.

How disgusting, you sit there are on your growing
fat butts while paid pump and dump scammers work
Allstocks for all the money they can steal from
our children and their futures; NDOL, GHLT ....

Who are filing those complaints against me? Guess!

Yes, I have a fat butt. However my fat butt is
in action out here on the financial front lines.
What is your butt doing?

Kira

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Dustoff 1
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I am still going forward with my complaint I started a few weeks back, as posted....I lost my temper when it became obvious that NITE Trading was selling Millions of shares of stock in a company that had not hit the date the shares were supposed to be available..Knight Trading was arrogantly dumping, and many of us watched them do it, many of us knew full well what NITE was up to..I bailed on the Stock out of Protest more than anything else.

The Irish in me refused to cool down and I began the process of obtaining legal council to advise me on the best course of action..

I went thru a Lawyer referal agency associated with the State of Oregon...Round and round I went till I finaly made contact with a legal clerk who put me in contact with a big shot Law Firm in Seattle Washington..

A lawyer actually called me and I was a bit startled by this fact..He was amased that I knew so little, and yet he was also amased that I understood so much..He did not charge me a dime and referred me to his secretary who explained to me how to go about writing the letter to the SEC Senators Congressman and such..

They also gave me a tip on a Lawyer here in Oregon to call, she said to make sure to call him, I think he was a friend of her Boss.

Well the lawyer is setting up the process for the letters to be written...For FREE! He said that Morgan Stanley [ Big Shot Wall Street Banking Firm ] has his attention on another matter and made the comment this activeity by these Banker/Brokers has got to stop!

Point to the above? Many of you may not think that anybody gives a Hoot about you, and the way we are continually ripped off in our investments.

If I can accomplish what I did with just a few phone calls, well, so can you...The little Guy has a mean left Hook and we can throw a Knockout punch! Just have faith in yourself, you really can make a differance, by just trying..Thankyou for reading.

BTW, NITE was fined over $70,000,000.00 for cheating.

[ May 27, 2006, 09:54: Message edited by: Dustoff101 ]

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renrob05
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Whoever reported you is a small cowardly POS!!!

That's all i have to say.

--------------------
Renee
Easy money!

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Dustoff 1
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WOW PURL!!!!! THAT HAS ME PO'D!!!NO GOOD SLIMY RATS!!!!!!!!!COWARDS! NOW THAT REALLY GETS MY IRISH UP!

You must of really put a scare into um..
But ya know, it just might backfire on them....

Maybe they just put the light of day on themselves...Let um complain, The FBI, SEC does reverse STINGS all the time! These Bozo's may of only accomplished bringing the FBI down on themselves! LMAO!

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Purl Gurl
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Lock and Load! We have a Beaucoup Dinki-Dau
protest in the makings!

Supporting Dustoff, I also was really surprised
by a local politician, our city mayor.

Completely unrelated, while back I joined a grassroots
campaign to stop a California Smog Bill. This bill
removes the "30 Year Rolling" exemption from smog
testing for cars 30 years old and older.

I, our family, are very strong supporters of clean
air laws, we are tree huggers. However, some of
our politicians wanted antique cars to be outfitted
with smog devices, cars dating back even to the
earliest of Model T Fords. How lame! These are
cars rarely driven, almost alway trailered to
car shows and events. These are classic beauties
which are literally never driven. Oh no, our
ignorant politicians claim those classic antiques
are the largest source of smog in our state!

Protest moved the smog test cutoff up to 1958
car years. Still way lame. How often do you see
a 1950 something car on the road? Never?

Anyhow, amongst hundreds of letters I wrote one
was to our city mayor. I deliberatey left out
our names, remained anonymous, because we know
the mayor, have for years, he and city council
have been to our home, many times. We even hold
fund raisers for our mayor. Nonetheless, good
ethics dictate I not play political games nor
ask for political favors. No signatures on our
letter asking him to contact Arnold Muscle Head
and ask Arnold to not sign the smog bill.

Why? Because not having a 30 year rolling exemption
for smog tests adds cars to the state database
rather than remove them. This creates a growing
database and creates a need to hire more people
at the Department of Motor Vehicles, which costs
tax payers more. Another problem is including
antique classic cars in smog testing shuts down
the classic car industry, a multi-billion dollar
business. EPA rules on "paint" for cars forced
all custom car painters to move over into Arizona,
as a comparison example. California lost a major
source of tax revenue while suffering deficits.

Back to Dustoff, our mayor wrote back and addressed
us by name because he recognized our address. He
wrote to tell us he supported our efforts and
had contacted Arnold Muslce Brain to lobby him.

There you go! Just like Dustoff we received
unexpected support out-of-the-blue. Sometimes,
all that is needed is support from a key person.

The smog law was changed to only include 1976
and newer cars. Some benefit. Arnold, however,
screwed up again. This time him exempted all
cars six years old and newer from smog testing.
What happened? Nitrous powered rice rockets
slapped together by teenagers, cars which
_each_ produce more smog than all cars in a
NASCAR race event. Not only did Arnold enable
the absolute worst smog making cars of history,
he also enabled thousands of teenage deaths
each year through rice rocket street racing.

Support like Dustoff received, support like
we received on smog issues, can come from
out of nowhere. However, you must take action
or that support will never be realized.

Look around, you and all families are being
ripped off for billions of dollars each year
by financial crime. Some of those criminals
are right here, right now, at Allstocks.

Are you just going to sit there and let
those criminals screw you and your children?

Kira

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Dustoff 1
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This word "children" changes the impact.

We of the Baby Boom generation effected the most
radical changes in America of history, beginning
with Rock N Roll and Vietnam. Now we are old and
dying off. Our children will soon be alone and
forced to fend for themselves. Who will protect
our children, punk rockers and goth vampires?

When you, the reader, sit there on your fat
McDonald's butt and do nothing, you, personally,
are victimizing your children and all children.
You are placing our children's future at risk.

Get up, stand up, take action. Writing some email,
making some phone calls, urging others to help,
is so effortless. Join some grassroots efforts
and make a difference. Do this for our children.

Kira - paid basher

------------------------------------------------


Damn Gurl, CLANG! fine job of hitting the nail square on the Head...Think about your Children people, Big Time.

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Purl Gurl
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Dustoff, "We Were Soldiers" writes,

"But ya know, it just might backfire on them...."

Referencing pump and dump scammers here at
Allstocks threatening to and reporting posters
to the SEC for alleged "bashing."

This is a typical, very typical tactic of
criminals. When a person writes a warning
about a scam stock, those criminals will
instantly attack the person through insults,
degrading comments and especially threats of
legal action via lawsuits and SEC complaints.
They will do anything to silence you.

A person over in the NDOL thread reported me
not only to the SEC but also to the company.

Most delightful, all I wrote about NDOL stock
proved to be true and precisely on target.

I have noted the major pump and dump scammers
have vanished from that thread when the stock
crashed and investors lost their money. Exact
same happened in the GHLT thread.

The crooks got their money and left. They will
be back, though, using different false monikers.

Sure, these threats by criminals will, in time,
backfire. These are not very bright boys.

The SEC is not interested in this type of crap;
they do not have the time nor staff to deal with
such petty events. The SEC looks at stock for
which _hundreds_ of complaints come in and some
actual damage is easy to see.

These idiot pump and dump scammers are so stupid
they do not realize before any action of any type
can be taken, real and actualized damage must
be effected and demonstated; no damage, no crime.

How on Earth can one person, such as me, effect
damage on a stock through a handful of postings
at a single stock discussion board? You know,
in both the NDOL thread and the GHLT thread, I
was blamed for both stocks crashing.

How absolutely stupid is that! I am powerful!
I hold control over the stock markets! I am
the Witch of Wall Street!

Returning to back firing, in time, this will
happen. Fortunately Cox does not control email.
Little People, honest people at the SEC read
email. I know. I have emailed with many at the
SEC, have talked on the phone with SEC people,
from low level clerks to SEC lawyers; they know
me well and probably groan when they hear my name.

These pump and dump scammers alert the SEC to
"something" going on. Should the SEC look, they
will notice "something is not right" about a
stock. They will note classic signals of a
pump and dump scam in operation. The SEC, instead
of going after the falsely accused basher, will
start looking at the person complaining about
bashers, falsely. These ignorant criminals are,
in effect, turning themselves in.

These ignorant criminals also do not realize
their false accusations to companies, to the
SEC, leaves a paper trail with which one of
their victims can use to litigate for injury
caused by false accusations of being a basher.

Pfftt.... nothing ever comes of these events.
The SEC is not interested, companies will not
touch these not wanting to draw attention to
their pump and dump schemes. Criminals only
create a record of their false accusations.

Sometimes, rarely, a real paid basher is caught
and sanctioned or sued. This is rare requiring
lots of documentation of wide spread aggressive
"bashing" which inflicts demonstrated damage.

These events are extremely rare.

Paid bashers work for shorters. Pump and dump
scammers work for the stock company. Honest
stock discussion participants work for the
benefit and good of all.

A side note is both paid bashers and paid
pumpers most often work for brokerage houses
and market makers; Wall Street.

Never allow these crooks to fighten you; they
are nothing but laughable.

Again, all of this well exemplifies there are
crooks right here amongst us at Allstocks. They
are attempting to and are ripping you off.

They are robbing your children of a secure future.

So, are you going to take action or toss your
children to these wolves?

Kira

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Purl Gurl
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I will add I am far from the only person known
by the SEC for taking action against financial
crimes and such.

Glassman, Tex, Blue, Dustoff, Keithsan and others
whose monikers I cannot remember, are also known
to the SEC. For many of us, you will find public
records on SEC websites showing us participating
in "request for comments" about proposed SEC rules.

Readers will also find us involved with the DTCC
and NASD, along with Pink Sheet Com inspired actions.

Many of us write to politicians, to Bush, to
governors and other politicians, frequently.

Readers will also discover us writing to companies,
writing to CEO types, and referring to them as
idiots and crooks. Ha! We are fearless!

We, Glassman, Tex, Blue, Dustoff, Keithsan and
the rest of our coherts, are old time and very
active stock traders. We are known. We are not
famous nor notable, but we are known to the
powers that be, known for our efforts to prevent
and stop financial crimes.

I am not alone. I stand shoulder-to-shoulder
with my friends and fighters. We are a team,
we work together, we watch each other's backs.

Rather ignorant to accuse people of bashing,
accuse people of crime, accuse people who have
a long documented history of fighting financial crime,
year after year.

Very ignorant, indeed.

Kira

Are not you boys glad I decided to stay rather
than vanish again?

* sounds of groans from the Peanut Gallery *

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Dustoff 1
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Hey Whale! It's raining like Hell up here, I told you we had a SEA LION problem, not a damn drought! Put that whammy thingamajigger on the Sea Lions, not the CLOUDS!! Geeezz, I'm moving vehicles to higher ground!

-------------------------------------------------
Posted this on another thread as well! Please Whale, "Can you ever Stop the RAIN!" LOL

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T e x
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I think paid bashing is much more rare than "we" online traders collectively like to admit. Offhand, I can think of only one documented, prosecuted case: the Elgindy affair, involving six or eight co-conspirators, including the disgraced (ex)FBI agent... Oddly enough, Elgindy once operated near here, mere minutes' drive time from my neighborhood. He had a home further north, in a development so gaudy, so pretentious, such an outrageous cookie-cookie paean to tax-base ostentatiousness that we have come to regard them as "McMansions." Alas, we know not where he will next lay head to pillow: the May 2 sentencing hearing appears to have been delayed or extended...

Much more common--in the sense of proven, prosecuted--are the organized pump-n-dump schemers. Some of those principals are even "famous" and (as you suggest) have been among us from time to time. Alas, the low-octane, garden-variety pumper is, like poverty, with us always. Easily recognizable by the outlandish claims and passionate purple prose devoid of fact or even well crafted line-of-reason, these types are relatively harmless, in the sense that a few pointed questions are usually sufficient to alert anyone who gives half-a-damn about their trading choices. Stepping up a notch, more insidious are those who strike a "basher" pose on a given stock or thread, then go on to offer "real plays" or perhaps even instruction in "how to trade for real bucks." Common earmarks are the necessity of "joining my chat room" or similar tactics to cut the newbie "from the herd." I liken their behavior to s t a l k e r s and abusers who want to control their partners' movement and access to family and friends.

Overall, the real threat remains the "big boys." Although naked shorting may *not* be as perniciously pervasive as the pie-eyed critics claim, I must wonder why the DTCC's subsidiary NSCC has in effect been granted pardon-in-advance for any future crimes... I understand the argument that MMs need to be able to short in order make a market, but why is the 13-day clock allowed to be "rewound" again and again... If we can't short, how can offshore accounts be allowed to? Those "borrowed" shares have to come from somewhere, eh? Who loans them? I "get it" that shutting down and rug-sweeping the occassional GVRP may be more efficient than allocating scarce resources to undertake a full-blown prosecution. But then how is it those same principals are allowed access to their dubious assets in order to transfer them to yet another shell? Wouldn't it make sense to simply shut down the whole operation? Forget the Pinks: Let's say Coulson's new three-tier plan will work, and leave it that. Good ol' self regulation...So howz about devoting real resources to the hedgies...a real threat to real investment dollars... why are they attacked piecemeal, rather than douched out as an industry?

Many questions, few answers...

However, a few answers are much better than no questions...when enough people ask enough questions, perhaps they can become election issues.

[ May 27, 2006, 18:52: Message edited by: BuyTex ]

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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Purl Gurl
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Tex drawls while riding the range,

"when enough people ask enough questions, perhaps
they can become election issues."

Darn tootin! The Utah bill passage is a direct
result of people talking, pissing and moaning.
Took a couple of years, but there it is!

Timing is perfect. With Enron boys looking at
life in prison, Utah cracking down, these events
send a strong message we are pissed off.

No doubt Wall Street will press court action
to invalid the Utah law but this will draw
more attention to the real problem; corruption.

No matter the outcome, Wall Street is being
exposed for being organized crime enabled by
the Capital Hill gang. Some of those fat cats
over there on Wall Street are nervous, just
as a bunch of members of Congress are nervous.

Real chicken sh!t of Bush to seal those documents
on the latest scandals. Like sixty-thousand dollars
wrapped in tin foil in a politician's freezer is
not legitimate evidence of corruption.

I mention this because of an analogy. Our 2008
election is a guaranteed win for Democrats, not
because Democrats are good people but rather
because the Republicans have destroyed themselves.

Wall Street, the SEC, the whole gang are facing
analogous circumstances. America is pissed off
and looking to skin some fat cats. The rich and
elite are now witnessing the birth and growth
of private investors, via the internet, slowly
becoming a powerful lot with political clout.

Wall Street corruption has put into motion
a grassroots movement to slap around Wall St.

Changes will be slow to come but events of late
have accelerated changes; screw with us, you face
live in prison.

I agree, Tex, with your opinion on the GRVP / GLUV
comedy. No big deal, we each lost a few hundred.
Shoot, that happens all the time. Yes, not worth
the SEC time nor taxpayer money to chase after
this one. Those boys have been tossed into limbo.
Doubtful they will be back.

What a mess we made of Wall Street! Lots of
publicity, newspaper articles, enough sh!t to
spread around all over Wall Street.

We kicked their sorry butts, yes?

Lot of Karma involved. We tried to put the big
short squeeze on them, they tried to defraud
us and in the end, a wash. Well a draw except
we can continue to trade and those boys are gone.

Telling ya, people, all you have to do is stand
up and speak out to make a difference. Utah is
clear evidence this works.

Kira

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i predict we'll have many more cases to consider before the elections this fall.....

it's funny in a way.....

the two parties will now do their best to throw as much mud as they can and wait to see what sticks....

Frist has insider trading problems, delay is toast...

Jefferson offices being searched sets a new precedent in the separation of powers, and may very well be the beginning of all-out war between Capitol Hill and the White House...

there are some subtleties here that people don't seem to realise yet...

Bush and Cheney have stepped on toes with this one...
it doesn't matter whether Jefferson is guilty or not, ( i suspect he is) the Congress will strike back, and strike hard.

if there was ever a time for a new political party to emerge in the US now is that time....

Bush has overseen more incompetence and more flagrant disregard for the constitutin than any other president in history...
the Veterans Data theft is just another major screw-up on his watch...

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Dustoff 1
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Posted Friday, Jan. 06, 2006
Washington's power players have always bragged about being well-wired, but for disgraced former congressman Duke Cunningham, "wired" wasn't just a figure of speech. In a week when legislators are focused on the question of who else might be brought down by ex-lobbyist Jack Abramoff’s cooperation with prosecutors as he seeks lenient sentencing over his two federal guilty pleas this week, sources tell TIME that in a separate investigation, ex-Rep. Cunningham wore a wire to help investigators gather evidence against others just before copping his own plea.

Sources familiar with the situation say Cunningham, a California Republican who pleaded guilty Nov. 28 to taking $2.4 million in bribes—including a yacht, a Rolls Royce and a 19th-century Louis-Philippe commode—from a defense contractor, wore a wire at some point during the short interval between the moment he began cooperating with the feds and the announcement of his guilty plea on Nov. 28.

The identity of those with whom the San Diego congressman met while wearing the wire remains unclear, and is the source of furious—and nervous—speculation by congressional Republicans. A Cunningham lawyer, K. Lee Blalack, refused to confirm or deny the story, and wouldn't say whether Cunningham will implicate any other members of Congress. The FBI is believed to be continuing its probe of defense contractors involved in the Cunningham case. An FBI spokesman declined comment. Asked whether Cunningham, an ace Navy fighter pilot decorated for his service in Vietnam, had worn a wire, the spokesman said the response from a higher-up was, "Like I'd tell you."

—With reporting by Brian Bennett/Washington

-------------------------------------------------
This one absolutly made me sick...

Duke was a stand up Fighter Ace in Nam....

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TickTrader
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Me thinks you guys/gals are out of my league. I would be spread to thin - saving the world, the environment, political reform... Even the wall street sharks would eat my lunch and ask for seconds.

I can't fix a broken pipe, so I pay a plumber. You won't find my contributions to the SEC, or anyone else, because I pay an attorney.

You won't find my negative posts on stocks that I don't own. Yes, opinion from experienced traders can be rewarding; but, with 'giving opinion' comes 'accepting responsibility' for inaccurate statements - up to and including libel. I have more to say on that, but my intention is not to incite or criticize.

Reading this thread, there are several points raised that prompted me to 'mentally' comment. Each time, I had the same reaction... It's not what/who you see, it's what/who is missing.

BuyTex, you are right about fewer 'paid' bashers. Over time it has not been necessary to pay 'the herd' because they have been conditioned to perform 'free of charge'. Offer a 'hot tip' and away they go. And who's been missing? Peeps flying the Investor Relations flag? Oh my, look at the new regulations that popped up for those folks. Regardless, there are exponentially more 'unpaid' bashers/pumpers than there ever were 'paid' bashers/pumpers.

My point is, still, look for what's missing. Here is an unrelated, yet completely obvious, example from a recent poster. The first two lines from the post...

File a Paivis SEC Complaint, Very Important

That you ask for.


Do you think the sentence structure is intentional? Don't you wonder what the complete instructions were for this poster? If somebody is paying this fool, they have wasted their money.

On another subject, we see a lot of this...

'NITE' on the ask!!! Holding it down!!! He's naked shorting!!! Hold your shares, people, don't sell cheap to those MMs!!!

The reality is that NITE is holding sell orders for the person unwinding a position. If everyone exits too early, guess who the bagholder is. But we don't 'see' that. Why would NITE expose himself like that? He wouldn't. Instead, pay attention to bid, you don't see the naked plays because it is hidden on the sell side of bid.

Good companies, companies with future potential are the ones that are most viciously attacked with shorts and paid bashing. They represent change in money flow, change is process, new competition for established business - already struggling to meet expectations. And who is missing? That one is too easy.

One bite at a time - chew thoroughly, and swallow. It's slow, but effective, in exposing and correcting abusive trading practices. I'm a bit pre-Baby Boom, so my methods may seem trite.

One thing I choose to disclose... My children are smarter, wiser, more capable, and effective than I ever dreamed of being (past, present, and future). What's missing? They are not a product of the school system (now pushing ignorant herd mentality). Pre-Baby Boom, the bywords were 'sharing' and 'compassion'. Baby Boomers? Wasn't that 'consensus' and 'committee'? Individual efforts fruitless? We all have conditioning to overcome, I suppose. My problem is that I still care. That said, my kids tell me I'm wasting my time on allstocks. They're probably right.

--------------------
ticked

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glassman
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'NITE' on the ask!!! Holding it down!!! He's naked shorting!!! Hold your shares, people, don't sell cheap to those MMs!!!

The reality is that NITE is holding sell orders for the person unwinding a position


let's see if i'm reading you 5X5 here?

sounds like you are saying NITE doesn't "naked short?"

go here:


http://secfilings.nasdaq.com/filingFrameset.asp?FileName=0001193125%2D06%2D10656 1%2Etxt&FilePath=%5C2006%5C05%5C10%5C&CoName=KNIGHT+CAPITAL+GROUP%2C+INC%2E&Form Type=10%2DQ&RcvdDate=5%2F10%2F2006&pdf=

scroll down to page four,
and look at Liabilities and Stockholders’ Equity

then check out the line:
Securities sold, not yet purchased, at market value:
compare this quarters 505,315,801$ to last quarters 345,457,499$ and you'll see they are getting deeper into the FTD problem...

i don't think the MM's are the real culprit tho.... they are just caught in the middle...

as far as your commentary on the follow the herd stuff? i tend to agree....

i think (hope) historians will look back on this era as the DISinformation age as opposed to the dawn of the informatin age... cuz if they don't? it will mean things didn't get better....

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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T e x
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quote:
My problem is that I still care.
Well, tick, you found a good group to waste your time with... [Wink]

quote:
The reality is that NITE is holding sell orders for the person unwinding a position. If everyone exits too early, guess who the bagholder is. But we don't 'see' that. Why would NITE expose himself like that? He wouldn't. Instead, pay attention to bid, you don't see the naked plays because it is hidden on the sell side of bid.
Inherent/implied/inferred: Trade time is *not* the time to rock the boat; MMs are better, have more toys...however you wanna think of it; sure, "Protect Capital" is the first rule--the other first rule is trade with the MMs, not against. When I realize I've entered a position contrary to MM interest? I'm out quicker than Tonto could say Kemasabe...

That being said, I do think it's worthwhile to at least jot a few notes each quarter, to a senator here and a banking-committee member there...perhaps an editor or two. Doesn't have to become a "personal mission" to have an effect...

Anyway, *we're* glad you're here, tick--tell your kids we promise not to pitch any chinchilla ranches... [Razz]

[ May 27, 2006, 18:26: Message edited by: BuyTex ]

--------------------
Nashoba Holba Chepulechi
Adventures in microcapitalism...

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