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raybond
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‘Immigration Battle’ Answers The Question Of How Immigration Reform Died

by Esther Yu-Hsi Lee Oct 20, 2015 9:59am


Rep. Luis Gutierrez, D-Ill., center, accompanied by House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer of Md., left, and Rep. Kathy Castor, D-Fla., arrive for a news conference on Capitol Hill in Washington, Thursday, March 26, 2015, to talk about the "continuation of efforts to educate individuals and families about the president's immigration executive actions." (AP Photo/Andrew Harnik)


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2013 marked the year that real momentum was building toward passing a comprehensive immigration reform bill that would put millions of undocumented immigrants on a pathway to citizenship. The Senate approved a bipartisan bill in June 2013, igniting optimism that Congress might actually create a long-term solution to a politically charged problem. House leadership even expressed some interest in prioritizing the issue in 2014.

But that didn’t happen. Today, the prospect of putting undocumented immigrants on some sort of pathway to legal status has never seemed less viable. GOP presidential candidates are running on virulently anti-immigrant platforms. And Republicans in the Senate are introducing legislation to make it easier to arrest immigrants for deportation proceedings.

A new documentary from FRONTLINE and Independent Lens set for release Tuesday night on PBS asks one simple question: What went wrong?

Filmmakers Shari Robertson and Michael Camerini present a fly-on-the-wall look at how bipartisan lawmakers almost pulled together to pass an immigration reform bill between 2013 and 2015 — and how the bill ultimately dead-ended in the Republican-controlled House.

“Immigration Battle” follows Rep. Luis Gutierrez (D-IL) as he worked behind the scenes with Republican congressional leaders and the White House to write a bill that would neither be too lenient on undocumented immigrants and nor too aligned with President Obama, whom many House Republicans do not wish to work with.

There is no easy villain. It’s not an easy ‘Republicans are bad’ movie.

Perhaps contrary to conventional wisdom, Robertson and Camerini conclude that Republicans weren’t the only one to blame for the ultimate downfall of the immigration reform bill. “There is no easy villain,” Camerini, joined on a phone interview with Robertson, told ThinkProgress. “It’s not an easy ‘Republicans are bad’ movie.”

House Speaker John Boehner’s (R-OH) confusing aboutface to vote on a set of immigration reform principles that would grant legal status to undocumented immigrants was his way of “inoculating, testing the waters, drawing people out” to see if they had a way forward, Camerini said.

The documentary pinpoints at least two turning points that help explain why House Republican members have since embraced more immigration-restrictionist bills.

First, former House Majority Leader Eric Cantor (R-VA) was defeated by the underfunded Tea Party darling Dave Brat, who ran on an opposition campaign to immigration reform. And then, an increase of Central American children who showed up at the southern U.S.-Mexico border appeared to trigger some House Republicans — who otherwise would have supported a whip count to bring up an immigration bill — to back down from supporting any immigration reform bills, which had suddenly become more politically toxic.

“The window for action is always short, it’s almost like a magical alignment of the stars and two enormous meteors came through,” Robertson told ThinkProgress. “Those two things — you can call them random occurrences — no one expected either one.”

The film makes the case that Democratic lawmakers played a role, too. Republicans turned their backs on immigration reform in part because Democratic leadership and the White House believed that House Republicans would take on a more conservative bill than the Senate did.

“They made a strategic decision that I think everybody… would say is a strategic error,” Camerini said. “There was a bipartisan deal in the House early and by killing it, they made the road much harder and much longer.”

The window for action is always short, it’s almost like a magical alignment of the stars.

“One’s own party can be an enemy because it’s such a useful political issue to blame the other side,” Robertson added. “People who want to get it done fear their own parties using it as a political issue almost more than they do the other side.”

Now, the promise of passing comprehensive immigration reform is little more than a memory as Republicans have moved sharply in the opposite direction. On Tuesday, the Senate is preparing to vote on whether to consider a bill to crack down on “sanctuary cities,” which are areas that have elected not to turn over undocumented immigrants to federal law enforcement.

“This vile legislation might as well be called ‘The Donald Trump Act,'” Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid said on the floor on Monday. “Like the disgusting and outrageous language championed by Donald Trump, this legislation paints all immigrants as criminals and rapists.”

Camerini acknowledged that it’s hard to distinguish “between bills which are theater and bills which are real” as House members take hardline stances to impress their constituents. That’s why he wanted to focus on a piece of proposed legislation that seemed like it had a real shot.

“This is the story of a real [bill] — one that got really, really close,” he said.

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glassman
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“People who want to get it done fear their own parties using it as a political issue almost more than they do the other side.”

in other words, you shouldn't do something the voters will remove you from office for?
in states and places where gerrymandering has made it a one-party race, they fear primaries more than the general election

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CashCowMoo
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Here is what rays immigration utopia vision will turn into for the US:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWd5lV2K1n8

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It isn't so much that liberals are ignorant. It's just that they know so many things that aren't so.

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raybond
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The only person that has had a bunch of foolish answers on immigration is you cash.

I have always said we should go after employers of said illegals. It is illegal to hire these people and if you take away the carrot the rabbit does not come in the box.

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IWISHIHAD
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Originally posted by RayBond:

"I have always said we should go after employers of said illegals. It is illegal to hire these people and if you take away the carrot the rabbit does not come in the box."
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What are you considering "illegal"

It seems like the definition of illegal needs to be changed, before you can go after the employer.

If they have a geen card (or equal document) then the employer will say he was legal under the law.

How are you going to prosecute the employer if it was a fake card? You know the employer isn't going to state he had any knowledge that it might be forged, unless he is stupid?

The real problem is there is so much money saved by using these indivuals and to many politicians bought and paid for by companies.

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raybond
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Well Iwish its a tough world. We can build a wall, give all people that are here illegally amnesty or go after employers. Or we can do any combo of all. Reagan when he was Gov. of CA. tried the amnesty and he stopped at 6 million people and hear we are today that did not work. We can build a giant wall and staff it with lots of border guards, coast billions of dollars. Or we could put people out of business and make it impossible for a person that should not be hear to get employment. Either way you tackle this problem some body is going to pay for it and get hurt but that is our fault for letting it go so long.

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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by raybond:
The only person that has had a bunch of foolish answers on immigration is you cash.

I have always said we should go after employers of said illegals. It is illegal to hire these people and if you take away the carrot the rabbit does not come in the box.

So why dont you ever talk about H1B and how many organizations under this presidency are firing their American workers after they are forced to train their counterparts. Obama never ever talks about this or any other Democrat that I know of.
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raybond
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so what, rub those employers out. It has always been that way workers train there replacements all the time nothing new. Read labor history

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IWISHIHAD
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Originally Posted By RayBond:

"Well Iwish its a tough world. We can build a wall, give all people that are here illegally amnesty or go after employers. Or we can do any combo of all. Reagan when he was Gov. of CA. tried the amnesty and he stopped at 6 million people and hear we are today that did not work. We can build a giant wall and staff it with lots of border guards, coast billions of dollars. Or we could put people out of business and make it impossible for a person that should not be hear to get employment. Either way you tackle this problem some body is going to pay for it and get hurt but that is our fault for letting it go so long"
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I believe you missed my point or I did not explain it correctly.

We can find ways to control most of the illegals being used by employers, but our politicians depend on these employers for their re-elections, so it goes on.

Without jobs most are not coming

Many of these employers can survive without use of illegals, but they will have less profit if using legal people.

It does not have anything to do with ways of preventing this problem, it has to do with who benefits the most.

We as a nation lose a lot as jobs get less.

I cannot believe how many more homeless I am seeing in the last 5 years and a lot more women.

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CashCowMoo
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quote:
Originally posted by raybond:
so what, rub those employers out. It has always been that way workers train there replacements all the time nothing new. Read labor history

But the Democrats arent saying anything, and labor unions are getting the squeeze. The unions raise a fuss, but they seem to have a hard time leaving the dem party even when they get spit on.
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raybond
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well cash at least they are not stupid enough to be a republican and most of them won't vote republican either

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Relentless.
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As I have often said:

Malice, not ineptitude.

Introducing, in fact ushering, 40 million unskilled workers into a nation with a declining job market is suicide... For the nation/economy.

I will also say that I am somewhat conflicted because I know, personally, many of these guys and they are the best of people. Many if not most are great people. Honest, hard working, forward thinking, FUNNY, great wit... But, diluting the worker base is never a good idea.

Additionally, and more importantly, this whole thing will be used to mask a FF terrorist attack.

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Relentless.
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Also.. Just in case I've been remiss.

Ray, you're a moron.

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IWISHIHAD
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What do you think of the growing homeless situation?

Many are getting very aggressive.

I think the illegals just go home when don't have jobs, which leaves the natural born people on the streets.

It seems like we might have two separate societies in 20 years.

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raybond
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I think the homeless situation is terrible. And it is problems like being homeless that might put this country into a terrible plight. If you want my opinion on what is to be done, it is a matter like this that our congress should be working on instead of keeping things in gridlock for political reasons.

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How Eisenhower solved illegal border crossings from Mexico


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By John Dillin July 6, 2006


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WASHINGTON — George W. Bush isn't the first Republican president to face a full-blown immigration crisis on the US-Mexican border.

Fifty-three years ago, when newly elected Dwight Eisenhower moved into the White House, America's southern frontier was as porous as a spaghetti sieve. As many as 3 million illegal migrants had walked and waded northward over a period of several years for jobs in California, Arizona, Texas, and points beyond.

President Eisenhower cut off this illegal traffic. He did it quickly and decisively with only 1,075 United States Border Patrol agents – less than one-tenth of today's force. The operation is still highly praised among veterans of the Border Patrol.


Although there is little to no record of this operation in Ike's official papers, one piece of historic evidence indicates how he felt. In 1951, Ike wrote a letter to Sen. William Fulbright (D) of Arkansas. The senator had just proposed that a special commission be created by Congress to examine unethical conduct by government officials who accepted gifts and favors in exchange for special treatment of private individuals.

General Eisenhower, who was gearing up for his run for the presidency, said "Amen" to Senator Fulbright's proposal. He then quoted a report in The New York Times, highlighting one paragraph that said: "The rise in illegal border-crossing by Mexican 'wetbacks' to a current rate of more than 1,000,000 cases a year has been accompanied by a curious relaxation in ethical standards extending all the way from the farmer-exploiters of this contraband labor to the highest levels of the Federal Government."

Years later, the late Herbert Brownell Jr., Eisenhower's first attorney general, said in an interview with this writer that the president had a sense of urgency about illegal immigration when he took office.

America "was faced with a breakdown in law enforcement on a very large scale," Mr. Brownell said. "When I say large scale, I mean hundreds of thousands were coming in from Mexico [every year] without restraint."

Although an on-and-off guest-worker program for Mexicans was operating at the time, farmers and ranchers in the Southwest had become dependent on an additional low-cost, docile, illegal labor force of up to 3 million, mostly Mexican, laborers.

According to the Handbook of Texas Online, published by the University of Texas at Austin and the Texas State Historical Association, this illegal workforce had a severe impact on the wages of ordinary working Americans. The Handbook Online reports that a study by the President's Commission on Migratory Labor in Texas in 1950 found that cotton growers in the Rio Grande Valley, where most illegal aliens in Texas worked, paid wages that were "approximately half" the farm wages paid elsewhere in the state.

Profits from illegal labor led to the kind of corruption that apparently worried Eisenhower. Joseph White, a retired 21-year veteran of the Border Patrol, says that in the early 1950s, some senior US officials overseeing immigration enforcement "had friends among the ranchers," and agents "did not dare" arrest their illegal workers.

Walt Edwards, who joined the Border Patrol in 1951, tells a similar story. He says: "When we caught illegal aliens on farms and ranches, the farmer or rancher would often call and complain [to officials in El Paso]. And depending on how politically connected they were, there would be political intervention. That is how we got into this mess we are in now."

Bill Chambers, who worked for a combined 33 years for the Border Patrol and the then-called US Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS), says politically powerful people are still fueling the flow of illegals.

During the 1950s, however, this "Good Old Boy" system changed under Eisenhower – if only for about 10 years.

In 1954, Ike appointed retired Gen. Joseph "Jumpin' Joe" Swing, a former West Point classmate and veteran of the 101st Airborne, as the new INS commissioner.

Influential politicians, including Sen. Lyndon B. Johnson (D) of Texas and Sen. Pat McCarran (D) of Nevada, favored open borders, and were dead set against strong border enforcement, Brownell said. But General Swing's close connections to the president shielded him – and the Border Patrol – from meddling by powerful political and corporate interests.

One of Swing's first decisive acts was to transfer certain entrenched immigration officials out of the border area to other regions of the country where their political connections with people such as Senator Johnson would have no effect.

Then on June 17, 1954, what was called "Operation Wetback" began. Because political resistance was lower in California and Arizona, the roundup of aliens began there. Some 750 agents swept northward through agricultural areas with a goal of 1,000 apprehensions a day. By the end of July, over 50,000 aliens were caught in the two states. Another 488,000, fearing arrest, had fled the country.

By mid-July, the crackdown extended northward into Utah, Nevada, and Idaho, and eastward to Texas.

By September, 80,000 had been taken into custody in Texas, and an estimated 500,000 to 700,000 illegals had left the Lone Star State voluntarily.

Unlike today, Mexicans caught in the roundup were not simply released at the border, where they could easily reenter the US. To discourage their return, Swing arranged for buses and trains to take many aliens deep within Mexico before being set free.

Tens of thousands more were put aboard two hired ships, the Emancipation and the Mercurio. The ships ferried the aliens from Port Isabel, Texas, to Vera Cruz, Mexico, more than 500 miles south.

The sea voyage was "a rough trip, and they did not like it," says Don Coppock, who worked his way up from Border Patrolman in 1941 to eventually head the Border Patrol from 1960 to 1973.

Mr. Coppock says he "cannot understand why [President] Bush let [today's] problem get away from him as it has. I guess it was his compassionate conservatism, and trying to please [Mexican President] Vincente Fox."

There are now said to be 12 million to 20 million illegal aliens in the US. Of the Mexicans who live here, an estimated 85 percent are here illegally.

Border Patrol vets offer tips on curbing illegal immigration

One day in 1954, Border Patrol agent Walt Edwards picked up a newspaper in Big Spring, Texas, and saw some startling news. The government was launching an all-out drive to oust illegal aliens from the United States.

The orders came straight from the top, where the new president, Dwight Eisenhower, had put a former West Point classmate, Gen. Joseph Swing, in charge of immigration enforcement.

General Swing's fast-moving campaign soon secured America's borders – an accomplishment no other president has since equaled. Illegal migration had dropped 95 percent by the late 1950s.

Several retired Border Patrol agents who took part in the 1950s effort, including Mr. Edwards, say much of what Swing did could be repeated today.

"Some say we cannot send 12 million illegals now in the United States back where they came from. Of course we can!" Edwards says.

Donald Coppock, who headed the Patrol from 1960 to 1973, says that if Swing and Ike were still running immigration enforcement, "they'd be on top of this in a minute."

William Chambers, another '50s veteran, agrees. "They could do a pretty good job" sealing the border.

Edwards says: "When we start enforcing the law, these various businesses are, on their own, going to replace their [illegal] workforce with a legal workforce."

While Congress debates building a fence on the border, these veterans say other actions should have higher priority.

1. End the current practice of taking captured Mexican aliens to the border and releasing them. Instead, deport them deep into Mexico, where return to the US would be more costly.

2. Crack down hard on employers who hire illegals. Without jobs, the aliens won't come.

3. End "catch and release" for non-Mexican aliens. It is common for illegal migrants not from Mexico to be set free after their arrest if they promise to appear later before a judge. Few show up.

The Patrol veterans say enforcement could also be aided by a legalized guest- worker program that permits Mexicans to register in their country for temporary jobs in the US. Eisenhower's team ran such a program. It permitted up to 400,000 Mexicans a year to enter the US for various agriculture jobs that lasted for 12 to 52 weeks.

• John Dillin is former managing editor of the Monitor

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glassman
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quote:
Originally posted by Relentless.:
As I have often said:

Malice, not ineptitude.

Introducing, in fact ushering, 40 million unskilled workers into a nation with a declining job market is suicide... For the nation/economy.

I will also say that I am somewhat conflicted because I know, personally, many of these guys and they are the best of people. Many if not most are great people. Honest, hard working, forward thinking, FUNNY, great wit... But, diluting the worker base is never a good idea.

Additionally, and more importantly, this whole thing will be used to mask a FF terrorist attack.

herein lies the hardest part of the problem. There are so many good people leaving Mexico and coming here that Mexico is doomed to become more ugly and more dependant on remission of US dollars. It's no good for Mexico either. I recently inquired about buyin the materials for an alumium (awning type) carport at the local shed builder shop. He says look over his catalogue and give him my credit card number after i pick one completely installed. he said a Mexican crew will come by and install it in 45 minutes flat. This is a good ole Miss boy total redneck fronting for a national outfit using illegal sub-contractors. Why are these efficient workers not building Mexico for Mexicans? IMO the whole thing is insane. It's got nothing to do with "racism".
Ultimately my redneck neighor couldn't be bothered to take the trouble to sell me th ematerials i wanted because he could get 100 bucks out of hte 1100 by just taking my order. He has the material in stock, but it's too much trouble pulling them for me when he can make the smae money swiping my card in the reader and placing my order. laziness to the extreme. I left without buying anything, only cuz i want to build it myself even though it is "work"- the newest four letter word. He actually looked at me and talked to like I am crazy when i told him i wanted to do it myself. He forgot the customer is always right rule.

--------------------
Don't envy the happiness of those who live in a fool's paradise.

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Relentless.
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Look at Paris.

Exactly what I said would happen. Between 5 - 8 refujihadis just killed between 120 and 170 unarmed people.

Exactly as I predicted.

This whole immigration BS is being used as a tool to further the terror agenda.

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IWISHIHAD
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Originally Posted By Glassman:

herein lies the hardest part of the problem. There are so many good people leaving Mexico and coming here that Mexico is doomed to become more ugly and more dependant on remission of US dollars. It's no good for Mexico either. I recently inquired about buyin the materials for an alumium (awning type) carport at the local shed builder shop. He says look over his catalogue and give him my credit card number after i pick one completely installed. he said a Mexican crew will come by and install it in 45 minutes flat. This is a good ole Miss boy total redneck fronting for a national outfit using illegal sub-contractors. Why are these efficient workers not building Mexico for Mexicans? IMO the whole thing is insane. It's got nothing to do with "racism".
Ultimately my redneck neighor couldn't be bothered to take the trouble to sell me th ematerials i wanted because he could get 100 bucks out of hte 1100 by just taking my order. He has the material in stock, but it's too much trouble pulling them for me when he can make the smae money swiping my card in the reader and placing my order. laziness to the extreme. I left without buying anything, only cuz i want to build it myself even though it is "work"- the newest four letter word. He actually looked at me and talked to like I am crazy when i told him i wanted to do it myself. He forgot the customer is always right rule.
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Seems to be a problem everywhere.
At least they may have actually done some work for what you pay for.

Many want to take your money for doing a job and when they don't complete the job as paid for, they wonder why you tell them to finish it properly.

I am not talking about just manual labor jobs.

In the last few years i have had experience with so many people that feel they don't have to do what they take money to do.

The latest is a title insurance company.

I got a property several years ago and paid for a title search on the property. I sent the money in to the company, they ran the search and sent me copies via Email. On this title search it states that basically you can't rely on this report and their not liable for it's correctness. I never really paid much attention at the time, and never was told of this before i sent the money in, nor did i sign anything.

First and foremost, what do you get a title report done for?

Anyway, the report showed nothing unusual. For some reason a year later i called this company for an unrelated subject, and got back to the original report which now shows a very large lien on the property from 1972, obviously not applied recently.

I filed a claim with their company and they wrote back disallowing the claim because of their statements in the document, and they show the second date 10 days after the original. Problem is they got the wrong year on the original report to the second with the lien.

I have not went further yet but again, what do you get a title report for, if not to make sure you don't have a problem with a property?

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buckstalker
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2 words Iwish...

Title Insurance

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IWISHIHAD
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Originally Posted By Buckstalker:

2 words Iwish...

Title Insurance
--------------------------------------------------

This was the same company that was suppose to issue it, but there was a problem in between not related to this.

But what if you wanted to check about possible problems before you bought any property, then what?

Again, a title report is suppose to tell you about a property, especially any past liens etc.

Legally what is a title company responsible for in a report that we pay for?

Unfortunately, I will probably be finding out.

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