posted
Well it seems like Putin is executing his plan. Waiting for the Olympics to end before rushing into Ukraine. This administration is telling Putin to stop? Oh my how scary. Just like Syria.
Personally I dont think we should go over there and do anything. Let Europe deal with it. Its when Obama started talking tough on the matter than he put himself right in the middle.
A Judo and Karate black belt KGB counter intelligence officer VS a community organizer who received votes for office solely on his skin color. Putin is increasing the size and spending of his military, and Obama is cutting his down.
We need a Reagan to deal with this kind of Russia. Whats Obama going to do? Use the IRS to heckle the russians? Blame the situation on a 6 month old youtube video that nobody has ever heard of? Tell the Russians they have to change their diets in their cafeterias?
Gee wiz, I am sure glad Obama got that Nobel Peace Price. He sure earned it.
posted
OMG...you are so retarded! ROFLMAO! Please tell everyone EXACTLY what Obama...or even a GOP Prez is supposed to do in the current situation? You are such a raging drip! And why don't you back off the racist BS...dude...he is already Prez...you and your Skinhead bros are just out of luck for now. Get over it.
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They arent supposed to do ANYTHING Pagan. Thats why I dont get why Obama and Biden have been telling Putin to get out or else.
There was nothing racial about it pagan. You didnt even read what I wrote or you would have seen that I dont think we should be doing anything.
Obama warns Russia against Ukraine intervention, says 'there will be costs'
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quote:Originally posted by CashCowMoo: They arent supposed to do ANYTHING Pagan. Thats why I dont get why Obama and Biden have been telling Putin to get out or else.
There was nothing racial about it pagan. You didnt even read what I wrote or you would have seen that I dont think we should be doing anything.
Ok Nubskull..did you write the following or not? "a community organizer who received votes for office solely on his skin color." Did someone hack you and write that? NO dumbass....you wrote that.
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Uh, you mean to tell me that there were no people that voted for him just because he was black? You sir, are the idiot if you think that is just a non fact. Go look up on youtube all the videos of people going to polling stations and asking them why they are voting for Obama. They know nothing on the issues. Is it everyone? No. A lot? You bet.
So the African American voter turnout in 2008 compared to earlier election years was for what then?
Pagan, why are you such the typical liberal? Always angry, foul language, gutter conversation and comments. Why are you the way that you are?
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This is just one example, pretty well known person too. You really just took one neutral comment and spun it the way you know best....turning it into racism and then name calling like an immature child. Look at your posts. Go re-read them. Are you in junior high?
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Reagan didn't do anything to defeat the USSR. In fact? The USSR collapsed under it's own incompetent weight. Think Afghan war and chernobyl style managemtn... not US (esp. NOT reaganesque) pressure...
The Chernobyl disaster (Ukrainian: Чорнобильсь 082;а катастрофа, Chornobylska Katastrofa – Chornobyl Catastrophe) was a catastrophic nuclear accident that occurred on 26 April 1986 at the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant in Ukraine (then officially the Ukrainian SSR), which was under the direct jurisdiction of the central authorities of the Soviet Union. An explosion and fire released large quantities of radioactive particles into the atmosphere, which spread over much of the western USSR and Europe.
as to what Obama should do in response? i suggest that Putin may in fact be stopping a full-blown blood bath of revolution and obama has to shake his spear apropriately...
I am no Russophile and i like Putin even less than most world leaders, but the way you "conservative nuts" encourage revolutions in other countries is downright appalling.
I am reminded how Bush sr responded to the Kurds being massacred by Saddam... he didn't know why? cuz it ain't worht our children's blood.
you are stuck in some sort of religio-conservaitve mindwarp cash... you don;t even know the history of the GOP. Nixon pulled US out of the Nam... Historically, GOP's do not do what you think you want them to do
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posted
Cash you hate Obama so much you are willing to side with Putin than your own county. You are sick.
Obama is smarter than Putin and will out wit the inbred all over the world.
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posted
Just remember one thing gentleman. Iraq, Afghanistan,Vietnam etc. are not Russia or China.
You better be very carefull how you pick your fights, because these two countries(Russia,China) can send us all to a higher or lower place, depending how naughty or nice you have been. And i am not talking about the North Pole, at least not the north pole where Santa is.
By midnight last Friday, Russian soldiers controlled the main roads, airports and communications centres. For good measure, they were also masters of the television station. Crucially, they had sealed off the only two highways linking the Crimean peninsula with the mainland. Yesterday, they went a step further and blockaded Ukraine’s own armed forces inside their bases; the new commander of Ukraine’s navy also defected, declaring his loyalty to “the autonomous republic of Crimea.”
This smoothly executed operation allowed Russia to seize control of more than 10,000 square miles of Ukraine’s territory, all without firing a shot. Did it amount to an “invasion,” as the new government in Kyiv was quick to claim? Well, no Russian tanks or armoured personnel carriers rolled across an international frontier. The troops used in the operation were mainly based in Crimea anyway, since it leases the port of Sebastopol for its Black Sea Fleet, under an agreement that allows the deployment of up to 25,000 military personnel. Invasion or not, the operation encountered no resistance – and appears to have enjoyed significant popular support. Many Russian-speakers, who comprise almost 60% of Crimea’s population, welcomed the protective embrace of Vladimir Putin’s forces.
the Crimea is prolly the most important strategic base in the region...
It is not even in the US's best interest for it to be "in play". Ukraine is a failed state. The real lesson here is for those of you who work against your own governments for PETTY reasons. That's how you BECOME a failed state. take heed. revolutions almost never turn out with a happy ending.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: just to put this into proper perspective-
By midnight last Friday, Russian soldiers controlled the main roads, airports and communications centres. For good measure, they were also masters of the television station. Crucially, they had sealed off the only two highways linking the Crimean peninsula with the mainland. Yesterday, they went a step further and blockaded Ukraine’s own armed forces inside their bases; the new commander of Ukraine’s navy also defected, declaring his loyalty to “the autonomous republic of Crimea.”
This smoothly executed operation allowed Russia to seize control of more than 10,000 square miles of Ukraine’s territory, all without firing a shot. Did it amount to an “invasion,” as the new government in Kyiv was quick to claim? Well, no Russian tanks or armoured personnel carriers rolled across an international frontier. The troops used in the operation were mainly based in Crimea anyway, since it leases the port of Sebastopol for its Black Sea Fleet, under an agreement that allows the deployment of up to 25,000 military personnel. Invasion or not, the operation encountered no resistance – and appears to have enjoyed significant popular support. Many Russian-speakers, who comprise almost 60% of Crimea’s population, welcomed the protective embrace of Vladimir Putin’s forces.
the Crimea is prolly the most important strategic base in the region...
It is not even in the US's best interest for it to be "in play". Ukraine is a failed state. The real lesson here is for those of you who work against your own governments for PETTY reasons. That's how you BECOME a failed state. take heed. revolutions almost never turn out with a happy ending.
Yea..it's a failed state for very particular reasons. And from what I have read, and that is from from the news, the President was robbing the country blind. Which ib turn will lead to a failed state. Funny how the Ukraine prez immediately absconded and ran to Putin. Do ya think Putin was gettin a few of those Billions that the Ukraine prez stole? It looks like it to me.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: it's pretty clear that Russia is not a real democracy. Putin pretty much does whatever he wants.
Yes..he(Putin) is quite clearly an Autocrat. But what surprises me, mainly that the media has not said a peep about it, is that he seems to be tryin to rebuild the Soviet Union thru force. Any opportunity that arises, he jumps at it to add territory thru the military. And that is scary! One wrong step...and all HELL will break loose IMO.
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posted
i have no direct experience with Russia or Russians, other than reading several Russina Classics (Dostoyevski, Tolstoy, Solzhenitsyn) which were all depressing as hell. My tak eon Russina culture is thatthey accept and possibly even like being run by tyrants....
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posted
Wow....you read those. That is awesome, but back to what we were discussing. He(Putin) seems to be intent on re-constituting the USSR. I mean, that is my impression from him. And obviously, there is little the US can do. No matter who is Prez(much to CCM's chagrin). Now if NATO gets involved...OH **** for everybody!
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posted
Btw...I did read Solzhenitsyn when I was a kid. it was required reading at the school I attended.
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posted
well yeah, i read alot of russian lit. it is all depressing to me. i don't think Putin is trying to resurrect the Commie state. Russia has produced one tyrant after another. their royal family was tyrannical too.. then they had one power freak after another murdering each other. it stabilised for a few years during the cold war.
Putin is just being Russian. taking over the Crimean Penninsula is looking out for his own interests, i beleive the USA would do it given the same set of circumstances.
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posted
take Cuba. i belive we screwed up bad not taking castro out immediately, and i bet most Americans would agree with me. i think that is similar to this situation in the Ukraine.
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Reagan didn't do anything to defeat the USSR. In fact? The USSR collapsed under it's own incompetent weight. Think Afghan war and chernobyl style managemtn... not US (esp. NOT reaganesque) pressure...
The Chernobyl disaster (Ukrainian: Чорнобильсь 082;а катастрофа, Chornobylska Katastrofa – Chornobyl Catastrophe) was a catastrophic nuclear accident that occurred on 26 April 1986 at the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant in Ukraine (then officially the Ukrainian SSR), which was under the direct jurisdiction of the central authorities of the Soviet Union. An explosion and fire released large quantities of radioactive particles into the atmosphere, which spread over much of the western USSR and Europe.
as to what Obama should do in response? i suggest that Putin may in fact be stopping a full-blown blood bath of revolution and obama has to shake his spear apropriately...
I am no Russophile and i like Putin even less than most world leaders, but the way you "conservative nuts" encourage revolutions in other countries is downright appalling.
I am reminded how Bush sr responded to the Kurds being massacred by Saddam... he didn't know why? cuz it ain't worht our children's blood.
you are stuck in some sort of religio-conservaitve mindwarp cash... you don;t even know the history of the GOP. Nixon pulled US out of the Nam... Historically, GOP's do not do what you think you want them to do
LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR AGAIN.
I do not want Obama to do anything. I ask...why was he making threats over the weekend? The administration saying Russia better pull back or else. Ok, or else what? Why was Obama so eager to strike in Syria and help insurgents.
He should sit back and let Europe decide the outcome we have enough problems.
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quote:Originally posted by glassman: well yeah, i read alot of russian lit. it is all depressing to me. i don't think Putin is trying to resurrect the Commie state. Russia has produced one tyrant after another. their royal family was tyrannical too.. then they had one power freak after another murdering each other. it stabilised for a few years during the cold war.
Putin is just being Russian. taking over the Crimean Penninsula is looking out for his own interests, i beleive the USA would do it given the same set of circumstances.
Its really hard for the US to tell Russia that they went in to Crimea illegally compared to our approach to Iraq. Plus it seems the people of eastern Ukraine are pretty much Russians anyway and they took over with no shots fired.
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posted
seriuosly caschow, you are th eone who came on with the picture of obama over putin's knee.
Putin would take more if he doesn't hear some saber-rattling about it. But the last thing we want is Ukraine to turn itno another Syria or Chechnia right? so they go thru the kubuki dance.
look carefully a tthe map Crimea is almost an island...
posted
I looked at maps of Crimea last weekend. Yes glass I did put that picture because thats what the reality is. Putin is the shotcaller now. Doesnt mean forever, but who is stopping him? Right now he is sending MORE troops in. They have air power, naval, infantry, armor, and mobile artillery units in Crimea.
Wonder what China has in mind for those disputed islands and Taiwan?
Before Obama the world had a bad opinion of us. Then Obama comes in and takes what Bush does and amplifies it. Spying on all our allies and leaders. Super spying. I wonder what Obama would do if he found out that Germany had tapped his cell phone and was recording everything.
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posted
Anatoliy Golitsyn.... Where are you? I'd love to hear your "2 cents" on the current Ukrainian situation.
Unfortunately, he has to stay in hiding or he will end up like Alexander Litvinenko.
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As a tense situation continued to unfold in Ukraine on Sunday, the major Sunday talk shows brought on Secretary of State John Kerry, as well as other government officials, to discuss whether there should be any U.S. involvement here over Russia’s decision to send troops into the semi-autonomous region of Crimea and, if so, what that could look like.
While ThinkProgress on Saturday laid out five potential non-war options that the U.S. could seek to deal with the situation, more options — some fairly contentious — arose as a result of discussions on the Sunday shows.
Here’s a look at the ideas that U.S. government officials from both sides of the aisle are entertaining to deal with the situation in Ukraine:
1. Removing Russia from the G-8, taking the next G-8 meeting out of Sochi
Secretary of State John Kerry: “[Putin] is not going to have a Sochi G-8. He may not even remain in the G-8 if this continues.”
Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC): “How about this — suspend Russian membership in the G-8 and the G-20 at least for a year starting right now. For every day that they stay in Crimea, add to the suspension.”
Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL): “This notion of taking him out of the G-8 has already been suggested by the administration. And I think it is the right thing do.”
2. Expanding and strengthening NATO
Sen. Graham: “Let’s accelerate Georgia’s admission into NATO. Moldova is under siege by Russia. let’s help Moldova. Let’s protect from a rogue missile attack coming out of the middle east. If i were President Obama, I would reengage Poland and the Czech Republic regarding missile defense. I would add Georgia to NATO. I’d have a larger military presence in the Balkans to NATO members who are threatened by Russia. I would fly the NATO flag as strongly as i could around Putin.”
Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL): “I am saying however that our NATO alliance needs to be reinvigorated, is an important alliance. Countries that neighbor Ukraine, for example, Poland and others who had part of that alliance I think we need to be providing them assurances of the importance of this alliance, including perhaps — in fact I think we should revisit the missile missile defense shield we talked about so often.”
3. Freezing business with Russia, blocking Russian visas
Sec. Kerry: “There could even be ultimately asset freezes, visa bans, there could be certainly disruption of any of the normal trade routine. Snd there could be business drawback on investment in the country…. [Putin] may find himself with asset freezes on Russian business, American business may pull back. There may be a further tumble of the Ruble. There’s a huge price to pay.”
Sen. Rubio: “Any and all discussions and negotiations with Moscow on any issue unrelated to this crisis, including trade and other matters, should be immediately suspended…. the Obama administration should immediately add more Russian officials to the Magnitsky list, which places travel bans and other sanctions on them – something President Obama failed to do in December. Living in Miami, I have seen in recent years the wave of Russian tourists coming to our city and state to spend money and buy property. Many are government officials or allies whose wealth stems from allegiance to Putin, and we should limit their ability to travel here.”
4. Helping Ukraine Secure Funding
Sen. Durbin: “What Congress has to do, what the Senate should do quickly is a resolution condemning what Putin has done and second, saying that if Ukraine will stand up for real reform, that we’re going to back them through the IMF, and making it clear to our allies in NATO that that alliance is strong.”
Sec. Kerry: “We would call on Congress immediately to the degree that they are prepared to be helpful, that they immediately lay down with us an economic package in order to assist Ukraine.”
5. Bolstering the missile defense of Ukraine
Sen. Rubio: “I would say that as part of strengthening and stabilizing the government in Kiev now, so that they can transition to stability down the road as well, I think part of that should be strengthening their defense capabilities. Because I think this threat is a long term one that they’re facing.”
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"Crimea became part of Ukraine only in 1954," he said. "Crimea was historically part of Russia, and (Nikita) Khrushchev gave it to Ukraine in a gesture that mystified some people."
Ignatius was correct in saying that Ukraine has only controlled the Crimean Peninsula since 1954 -- a claim we also heard from U.S. Rep. Mike Roger, R-Mich., on Fox News Sunday. Not up on your Soviet history? We’ll review the facts.
Crimea is an eastern Ukrainian peninsula located on the Black Sea. It’s connected to the rest of the country by a small strip of land. Out of its 2 million residents, about 60 percent identify as Russian. That’s the highest concentration of Russian speakers in Ukraine. Although the territory belongs to Ukraine, Russia stations part of its Black Sea fleet in Sevastopol as part of a pre-existing agreement between the two countries.
As Ignatius pointed out, Crimea hasn’t always been part of Ukraine. Here’s a quick rundown of what’s happened in the region since the Ottoman Empire used the peninsula as a hub for slave trade.
1783: Russia annexed Crimea.
1853: The Crimean War began, lasting three years. Russia lost to an alliance of the Ottoman Empire, France, Britain and Sardinia. Crimea remained part of Russia.
1917: Crimea briefly became a sovereign state before becoming a base for the White Army of anti-Bolshevik forces in the Russian War.
1921: The peninsula, now called the Crimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic, became part of the Soviet Union.
1942: Nazi Germany took control of Crimea.
1944: Joesph Stalin forcibly deported all Muslim Tatars, a group of 300,000 who had lived on the peninsula for centuries, due to members’ alleged cooperation with Germany during World War II. Many returned to Crimea in the 1980s and 1990s.
1945: After World War II, the autonomous Soviet republic was dissolved and Crimea became a province of the Soviet Union called the Crimean Oblast.
1954: Russian Premier Nikita Khrushchev transferred the Crimean Oblast to Ukraine. It’s often reported that it was a gesture of goodwill from Khrushchev, who had Ukrainian roots.
1991: The Soviet Union collapsed. Many expected President Boris Yeltsin, the new president of the Russian Federation, to take Crimea for Russia. But he didn’t bring it up during negotiations with Ukraine.
1997: Ukraine and Russia signed a treaty that allowed Russia to keep its fleet in Sevastopol. The agreement’s since been extended, so the fleet is set to remain there until at least 2042.
As for Ignatius’ claim that Khrushchev’s decision to give Crimea to Ukraine in 1954, we found literature to support that. Slate’s Joshua Keating offered up possible reasons for the land transfer, including the 300th anniversary of Ukraine’s merger with tsarist Russia and Khrushchev’s ties to Ukraine.
seems to me that Russian Lit is so depressing cuz most of their history is too
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posted
Don't forget the charge of the light brigade.
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posted
the rhetoric is very thick now. Putin says he isn't sending troops at all.. i suppose that is to be expected from a guy who completely control his countries media...
it may just be a translation issue. i wonder if anybody wants to raise taxes now so we can actually do something to kick Russia back out?
no? i didn't think so...
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posted
You can always pull a bush and slam your war on the credit card then blame the budget mess on the poor.
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Laugh all you want CCM, and feel free to crack any jokes you like about paranoia, Tin Foil, Cold Warriors, The Simpsons or Red Dawn, (which BTW was directed by a prominent NRA board member, and don't bother with the remake, it's total crap), the fact remains that Anatoliy Golitsyn predicted the collapse of the USSR, the fall of the Berlin Wall and the re-unification of Germany before they happened, events which, according the the history books, caught Western Intelligence completely by surprise, even though the CIA was receiving regular information from Golitsyn up until the mid-nineties when he went into hiding.
Regardless of whether or not his original premise was correct, (that the USSR collapsed intentionally to lure the West and Europe into a false sense of security), that is exactly what has happened.
I don't imagine for one minute that had the United States, NATO, and it's allies remained at the strength they were at the "end" of the cold-war that we would be begging Putin to leave Ukraine like we are today.
BTW, just a side note, Golitsyn (in addition to Russian defector Peter Deriabin), also claimed that Yuri Nosenko, the Russian defector who claimed he was Oswald's handler, and that Russia had nothing to do with the JFK assassination, was a KGB plant. The CIA believe Nosenko, even thought he was caught in several lies, and his "Bona Fides" were never established.
"The failure of US Policymakers to comprehend the veiled aggressiveness and hostility towards the United States inherent in Sino-Russian strategy and the belief that the political and economic reforms in Russia and the partial introduction of capitalism in China have foreshadowed these countries' development into real democracies, have eroded the effectiveness of US policies in the foreign affairs, defense, intelligence and counter-intelligence fields. US Policymakers have recklessly accepted the premise the Russia and China are no longer their enemies, but are rather potential allies and partners fully deserving of US support. Only countries like Iran, Iraq and North Korea - which (ironically, in this context) work secretly with Russia and China - are still considered potential adversaries." - Anatoliy Golitsyn 1993
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posted
So what is the suggestion from all of you? That we go to war ! You know we will go it alone on this one.
Europe buys to much of its energy from Russia, Take Germany it buys 38% of it natural gas from Russia. Why would they want destroy there economies over a problem that is not there concern?
Who in America in there right mind wants a war with Russia? Saber rattling can be very dangerous.
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posted
I wanted to ask what the movie Red Dawn has to do with anything? It was a stupid movie.
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posted
this is the kind of stuff that can get everybody in trouble
. Raw: Shooting Incident at Airbase in Ukraine
.
BELBEK, Crimea - A column of unarmed Ukrainian troops marched up a hill today under a World War II banner to demand that they be allowed back on their airfield, seized several days ago by Russian forces.
The Russians fired warning shots in the air, the beginning of a tense, four-hour standoff that ultimately ended with the Ukrainian troops' being denied access to the airfield and returning to their nearby base.
“We wanted to take [the troops up there] so the whole world can see what the Russians are like,” a top officer of the unit, Chief of Staff Viktor Kuharenko, told ABC News.
He said the group, numbering around 300, was met by about 25 Russian men with light weapons.
Scenes from Russia's Showdown With Ukraine
The two sides negotiated for hours, with the Ukrainians asking to resume their responsibilities at the airfield.
. Kerry in Kiev to Try to Deescalate Ukraine Crisis Russian forces have demanded the surrender of Ukrainian military bases across Crimea and have taken several of them. The Belbek base, next to the airstrip, is still held by Ukrainian forces that have refused to lay down their weapons.
“The two brotherly nations cannot be head-against-head, and I hope we’ll come to an agreement very soon,” Ukrainian base commander Col. Yuli Mamchur said.
He also said he received an ominous text message with a threat to “make the right decision.” He declined to say who it was from.
“We will continue our service here in a little more tense situation but we are used to it and it’s our duty,” one officer who took part in the standoff said, adding that they returned to the base when “the commander decided we should go back for lunch.”
Following the standoff, the troops returned to applause from fellow soldiers and their wives.
The showdown occurred as President Vladimir Putin spoke about the situation in Ukraine, arguing that Russia has the right to use force there
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